Soooo Many Cirrus' For Sale

KE5BM

KE5BM

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 15, 2023
Messages
481
Location
Cape Cod, MA
Display Name
Ross
Home Airfield
KHYA
Casually window shopping on controller.com yesterday and I didn't apply any filters. Just single engine props. Holy moly there's a bunch of Cirrus' for sale! Most are SR22s but other models are represented as well. For all the hype...what's the reason for so many aircraft going up for sale? Cost vs. benefit of other single-engines? Maybe like the Harley-Davidson boom of the 90s where every yuppie and their brother all of a sudden wanted one? Then, (as my dad put it to me back then) the power scares the crap out of them and they put them up on the block?

I've never been in a SR22. There's a flight school in PYM that uses them but they're way out of my price range...the plane and the instruction. They seem like excellent little planes so why are they being offloaded?
 
SR22 owner here (i have a 2001 Gen 1)....It's a great little XC machine. The older ones are more reasonable, they're pretty simple planes, fixed gear, and inexpensive to maintain outside the once/10 year chute repack. My Gen1 with a fixed gear and 3400lb MGW (same as a short body Bo) cruises at 172KTAS at 14.5gph LoP (same as a short body Bo). Also have an 1140lb useful load with none of the CG issues that come with short body Bo.

I've noticed a lot of folks in the Cirrus community seem to always want the latest/greatest and with the new Gen7 now out, there are more Gen6s on the market (2017-2023 time frame) from owners trading up. It's also a great stepping stone to TBMs and M600's...lots of guys still frequent the COPA forums that have moved up, but still value the COPA community.
 
There's a lot of Cirruses (Cirri?) for sale because there are a lot of Cirruses. A bit fewer than Bonanzas, about half of the number of PA-28s, about a third of the number of 172s. There are three times as many Cirruses as Diamonds (of all models).

As of 1 January:

7654 Cirrus
21123 Cessna 172s
18348 Piper PA-28 (all models)
10341 Beech Bonanzas
1775 Diamonds

The average age of those Pipers, Bonanzas, and Cessnas is about 45 years, vs. just eleven years for the Cirruses. A larger number those older aircraft are likely to be inactive or even non-existent; not as likely to show up on the sales boards.

Ron Wanttaja
 
How much does a Cirrus repack cost, and how many Cirrus service centers can do it.
 
Many people call the parachutes "a 1/2 engine". It only fly's descents and is half the cost of an engine. :7)

Seriously the repacks are taking over a year to get parts and the prices is nose bleed territory. Nice planes and perhaps the best single engine experience for passengers. Very comfortable. Operating costs are for the more well healed.
 
Last edited:
brien23 said:
How much does a Cirrus repack cost, and how many Cirrus service centers can do it.
Click to expand...
One of my tenants recently got one done and it was right at $20k and change.

People can say what they want, but they are easily the nicest flying airplane I’ve ever had the pleasure of flying. If I had the cabbage, it’s what I’d buy.
 
If one were to choose to not repack the chute, would the airframe lose it's airworthiness? Seeing as how it's not a required item in the FAR/AIM.
 
KE5BM said:
If one were to choose to not repack the chute, would the airframe lose it's airworthiness? Seeing as how it's not a required item in the FAR/AIM.
Click to expand...
I believe it is part of the type certificate, which would mean yes, it would not be airworthy without it. But I didn’t do the research to verify.
 
Saw some guys posting about their repack saga...8 months to get the parts and almost $26K, with over $14k having to be paid upfront for the parts ordering. And yes, the chute must be within date for the a/c to be legal.
 
What would happen to all those aircraft if Cirrus Corp disappeared (like soo many other aircraft mfgs)?
Would market forces drive new companies develop a “Chute PMA” and Chute Service Ctrs?
Maybe at double the price?
I can only imagine the horror of owners trying to use Owner Produced Parts for this lol.
 
KE5BM said:
If one were to choose to not repack the chute, would the airframe lose it's airworthiness? Seeing as how it's not a required item in the FAR/AIM.
Click to expand...
The chute repack is listed in the Airworthiness Limitations Section which requires compliance per 91.403 and 43.16. However, one issue with that ALS statement is the requirement to use a Cirrus shop vs an A&P to perform the repack which several LOIs have shown is not correct from a regulatory perspective.
 
Sounds a lot like a monopoly while using federal regulation as a shield. Future class action lawsuit? $20k for repacking a chute is crazy!
 
KE5BM said:
Sounds a lot like a monopoly while using federal regulation as a shield. Future class action lawsuit? $20k for repacking a chute is crazy!
Click to expand...
Knowing nothing about the system, I presume part of that cost would be replacing the rocket/charge? Does that include replacing what I imagine is the part of the fuselage cut away when the chute is removed and replaced?
 
KE5BM said:
Sounds a lot like a monopoly while using federal regulation as a shield. Future class action lawsuit? $20k for repacking a chute is crazy!
Click to expand...
Not really. Its more a owner self-induced standard similar to the R22 owner standards where both prefer to use a factory based support system for various reasons. And with those standards come higher costs like back in day when some people only had Cessna Service Centers work on their aircraft vs independent mechanics.
 
AvNavCom said:
Knowing nothing about the system, I presume part of that cost would be replacing the rocket/charge? Does that include replacing what I imagine is the part of the fuselage cut away when the chute is removed and replaced?
Click to expand...
Yeah they call it a repack, but i know they at least replace the rocket. Id assume some of the soft parts are life limited as well. I think it's all done from the inside though.

I didn't know it was that high now. Last I'd heard was 10k. It's not like it sneaks up on you like an engine though, you know when it's coming. Local club operating an SR-20 was down for six months last year waiting on life limited seat belt parts. I guess even newish planes aren't immune from downtime.
 
If it's like any other chute, then it has to be removed from it's container and physically inspected. They do deteriorate over time, even sealed in the container, and the canopy and lines eventually time out. I deal with ejection seats mostly, and the ACES 2 canopies are good for reuse as long as they meet the inspection criteria. The new seat I work with, no clue as haven't had one get to the 1st inspect/repack time limit yet.
 
Was in a flying club with a sr20. Thing was always squawked with weird electrical problems. It cost a ton per hour when it was available. When they went to repack the chute, a line was frayed. It was declared unairworthy until they ripped the carbon fuselage open to replace it. Carbon fiber work, new paint, chute, talk about a black hole.
 
Cirrus models vary significantly from year to year. On the early models the fuselage had to be cut and repaired/repainted to replace the chute. Newer models don’t require that. Earlier generations used a mechanical trigger for the chute. Later models used electronic ignition. At some point all replacement chutes required the use electronic ignition. If you originally had a mechanical trigger you were forced to (upgrade???) swap to electronic ignition. This required swapping the MCU which is not inexpensive. When people report Cirrus costs it’s important to know there isn’t a “Generic” Cirrus any more than an early F150 is the same as a new one.

The Chute is on the Type Certificate. As stated previously the plane is not airworthy 10 yrs after the date the Chute was manufactured NOT the date it was installed. There were some supply chain issues with the Chutes a year or so ago. I think those have been resolved. I’ll know for sure in 2026.
 
NordicDave said:
Many people call the parachutes "a 1/2 engine". It only fly's descents and is half the cost of an engine. :7)

Seriously the repacks are taking over a year to get parts and the prices is nose bleed territory. Nice planes and perhaps the best single engine experience for passengers. Very comfortable. Operating costs are for the more well healed.
Click to expand...

Is it mandatory to have to have it repacked? I myself would be happy to fly without it. Many RV 10’s and Sling TSI’s have them, but I would forgo the parachute if I build one. Of course, those are experimentals.

Edit: Disregard, it is mandatory. Just another money-making scam. Skip the spin tests and force customers to pay cutthroat prices for the parachute. (I’m aware the parachute can save lives, particularly in the case of an engine failure in IMC at night or over mountainous terrain, but it’s not a dire need for everyone).
 
Last edited:
In my experience Cirrus owners tend to be from higher income brackets and prefer the latest and greatest. The reason why there are so many Cirrus aircraft for sale is because generation 7 was released last year, and many G6 owners are looking to upgrade. This is partly the reason.

As for the cost of a parachute repack, $20k every ten years is a small price to pay for a life saving backup. A drop in the bucket compared to maintaining a twin engine piston.
 
Add to the cost of the parachute the significant percentage of big bore Continental engines that don’t make it to TBO. They are nice aircraft, but overly expensive to operate. Save yourself a lot of money and pick up a Diamond instead. You lose a little bit on top end air speed and a bit on useful load, but you end up with a significantly less expensive, easier to fly, and safer aircraft even without the chute.
 
David Loftus said:
Add to the cost of the parachute the significant percentage of big bore Continental engines that don’t make it to TBO. They are nice aircraft, but overly expensive to operate. Save yourself a lot of money and pick up a Diamond instead. You lose a little bit on top end air speed and a bit on useful load, but you end up with a significantly less expensive, easier to fly, and safer aircraft even without the chute.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t the diamond the one people keep saying mushes in at less then 1000 fpm if you stall it?
 
kaiser said:
you can falling leaf stall the DA40 at 35kts and I want to say descent rates were closer to 500fpm than 1000. it's been a few years since i did this.
Click to expand...
It's been a few years for me too, but wasn't this with 1 or 2 aboard? I seem to recall that you can't do this trick loaded to gross (not that I've tried with all seats filled).
 
asicer said:
It's been a few years for me too, but wasn't this with 1 or 2 aboard? I seem to recall that you can't do this trick loaded to gross (not that I've tried with all seats filled).
Click to expand...
Good point. I did it with a CFI, so 400lbs of pax, full (40g) tanks, back was empty
 
David Loftus said:
Add to the cost of the parachute the significant percentage of big bore Continental engines that don’t make it to TBO. They are nice aircraft, but overly expensive to operate. Save yourself a lot of money and pick up a Diamond instead. You lose a little bit on top end air speed and a bit on useful load, but you end up with a significantly less expensive, easier to fly, and safer aircraft even without the chute.
Click to expand...
Ya know, I keep hearing this, but my IO-550-G (almost identical to the 550-N in the Cirrus) is at nearly 2400 hours and doing fine. In fact, compressions at the last annual were the best I've ever seen. :rofl: Maybe Cirri are the exception because they're run at 2500 RPM all day long (no blue knob even with the CS prop) once you pull back from takeoff power (2700).

The DA40 is a fine airplane, but it's analogous to the SR20. If your mission requires an SR22, the DA40 may or may not be suitable. For some SR22 owners, the mission is to "fly while pretending to be one of the cool kids with the latest greatest" which is one of the reasons there are lots for sale.

SebIp said:
Wasn’t the diamond the one people keep saying mushes in at less then 1000 fpm if you stall it?
Click to expand...
Yep. IIRC the Cirrus under chute comes down at 1500 fpm. That's gonna hurt, but it's not gonna kill you. Not pulling the handle is what tends to kill Cirrus pilots.

The Diamond is a very safe aircraft, and the best-flying GA single I've had the pleasure of flying.
 
SebIp said:
Wasn’t the diamond the one people keep saying mushes in at less then 1000 fpm if you stall it?
flyingcheesehead said:
Yep. IIRC the Cirrus under chute comes down at 1500 fpm. That's gonna hurt, but it's not gonna kill you.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that Cirrus seats are specially designed to absorb the vertical deceleration (you are not allowed to kneel or stand on those seats). The Diamonds’ are more conventional.
 
asicer said:
Keep in mind that Cirrus seats are specially designed to absorb the vertical deceleration (you are not allowed to kneel or stand on those seats). The Diamonds’ are more conventional.
Click to expand...
They're the newfangled "26G" safety seats.
 
kujo806 said:
Was in a flying club with a sr20. Thing was always squawked with weird electrical problems. It cost a ton per hour when it was available. When they went to repack the chute, a line was frayed. It was declared unairworthy until they ripped the carbon fuselage open to replace it. Carbon fiber work, new paint, chute, talk about a black hole.
Click to expand...
Meaning if the chute was pulled it wouldn’t have worked?
 
mandm said:
Meaning if the chute was pulled it wouldn’t have worked?
Click to expand...
I don’t know if that would be the case or not. The cirrus certified shop during the repack process noted that the line was frayed and should not be. They would not go through with the repack and deem it as airworthy unless it was repaired. This line went to the firewall so they would have to cut it out of the fuselage to replace it. I think the repair was quoted at 20k or something not including paint or repack.
 
kujo806 said:
I don’t know if that would be the case or not. The cirrus certified shop during the repack process noted that the line was frayed and should not be. They would not go through with the repack and deem it as airworthy unless it was repaired. This line went to the firewall so they would have to cut it out of the fuselage to replace it. I think the repair was quoted at 20k or something not including paint or repack.
Click to expand...
Hmm, these airplane still do glide, so I feel like the chute repack should be optional, either changing the status to experimental or with owner sign off and a placard.
 
KE5BM said:
Sounds a lot like a monopoly while using federal regulation as a shield. Future class action lawsuit? $20k for repacking a chute is crazy!
Click to expand...
The ATF approval is involved with shops performing this service.
 
mandm said:
Hmm, these airplane still do glide, so I feel like the chute repack should be optional, either changing the status to experimental or with owner sign off and a placard.
Click to expand...
One could probably do an STC for disabling the chute if they did the full spin series and anything else the FAA let them skip out on. EASA didn't let them skip anything, so the plane should be capable of it.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
One could probably do an STC for disabling the chute if they did the full spin series and anything else the FAA let them skip out on.
Click to expand...
In the 25+ years its been flying I'm surprised no one has tried. But from what I've been told over the years, given its primary target market and price the BRS is one of the top selling points. Also any flight certification process can be extremely expensive. Perhaps 60 years down the road when everyone is flying clapped out SR20s there will be a change.

mandm said:
either changing the status to experimental or with owner sign off and a placard.
Click to expand...
The 1st part is possible right now. With the right approach, don't see why you couldn't put a Cirrus under Experimental Exhibition where can perform all the maintenance except the Condition Inspection, slowly work into the spin recovery requirements following the EASA spin process as a guide. And as part of that process you might even be able as owner to placard the BRS. Then when the data looks good hire a couple DERs/DARs to verify the data and apply for an STC for BRS removal. OR, stretch out your testing for years and if it doesn't go the way you want, bring the aircraft back to spec or just sell it?

Clip4 said:
The ATF approval is involved with shops performing this service.
Click to expand...
Never heard that before. Most types of "explosive actuated devices" used on aircraft fall under an ATF exemption. For example, evacuation slides, helicopter emergency floats, ejection seat systems all use explosive actuation devices and fall under that same exemption. Don't see why the ATF would be involved based on my experience with removing/installing those type devices on aircraft.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top