Soooo Many Cirrus' For Sale

[flyingcheesehead]

Diamond itself I think treats the DA-40 as a "stepping stone aircraft" to get you into their more luxurious options (think DA50 or 62). A Lifestyle rep once told me that a lot of the DA40 purchases are folks without a PPL. Dead serious. They buy it to learn on it, flip it, and then go buy a higher performing Diamond. :shrug:

You realize that's like most of Cirrus' business, right? They've been catering to non-flyers for a long time. I even asked Alan Klapmeier about it the first time I interviewed him. His reply was that other OEMs "preach to the choir" and advertise in aviation magazines, but that his goal with Cirrus was to grow the industry by selling their planes to non-flyers.

They had, at one point, a really cool program called Cirrus Access that basically cost an extra $80K or so. It covered your first year's worth of insurance as well as providing you your very own full-time flight instructor (who got paid $50K, which was REALLY good for a CFI at the time). The idea was that you would be able to get utility out of your airplane, even as a non-pilot, from day one as well as gain a ton of real-world experience. You weren't allowed to solo prior to 50 hours TT, but at the end of the year you would theoretically have 250 hours TT, PP-ASEL and instrument and be well prepared to continue flying on your own.

The only problem was the price tag. We all know pilots are cheap bastards, apparently that comes naturally instead of having to be taught!

FWIW, I see a lot of DA40s belonging to flight schools and clubs, not so many with private owners (though there are plenty of those as well).

 

[StraightnLevel]

I suspect that Cirrus owners are overrepresented by vanity purchases that don't actually get used that much. I personally know more than a couple of dot com millionaires who bought-then-soon-sold or bought-but-rarely-flew theirs without accumulating many hours, but that's even more handwaving.

Those examples are definitely out there....but do they constitute the majority? Hard to say. That said, there certainly are some hangar queens on the market:

https://www.controller.com/listing/...2-cirrus-sr22-g3-turbo-piston-single-aircraft 36 hrs/year
https://www.controller.com/listing/...3-cirrus-sr22-g5-turbo-piston-single-aircraft 38 hrs/year
https://www.controller.com/listing/...4-cirrus-sr22-g5-turbo-piston-single-aircraft 27 hrs/year
https://www.controller.com/listing/...5-cirrus-sr22-g5-turbo-piston-single-aircraft 48 hrs/year

A quick look finds a LOT of SR22/SR22T available with fewer than 100 hrs/year.

Question: How different is this from the guys who buy a Porsche or Ferrari and only drive it on weekends in perfect weather to car shows?

 

[Rockymountain]

An owner flown DA40 is probably going to vary from a flight school DA40 a good bit. More likely to have powerflow exhaust, Hartzell composite prop and tight fitting wheel fairings all of which add significant speed to the airplane. And is more likely to have upgraded interior and paint. That is a pretty decent cross country aircraft with the extended tanks capable of 5+ hours of flight and cruising up to 147 kn true. Within spitting distance of a Cirrus SR20. It will handily outfly a Cessna 182. I had access to a diamond star for a while, and when my partner had the Piper M600 or it was in the shop, I commuted to work in that aircraft. I loved flying it, even though it was about exactly half as fast as my Piper. But as long as the weather was decent, I just got more flight time and more time to enjoy the world out those big beautiful windows. I have significant IFR/IMC time in the aircraft, very stable IFR platform just stay out of ice. Have 5 or 600 hours in them mostly cross country hours.

 

[Trogdor]

You realize that's like most of Cirrus' business, right? They've been catering to non-flyers for a long time. I even asked Alan Klapmeier about it the first time I interviewed him. His reply was that other OEMs "preach to the choir" and advertise in aviation magazines, but that his goal with Cirrus was to grow the industry by selling their planes to non-flyers.

They had, at one point, a really cool program called Cirrus Access that basically cost an extra $80K or so. It covered your first year's worth of insurance as well as providing you your very own full-time flight instructor (who got paid $50K, which was REALLY good for a CFI at the time). The idea was that you would be able to get utility out of your airplane, even as a non-pilot, from day one as well as gain a ton of real-world experience. You weren't allowed to solo prior to 50 hours TT, but at the end of the year you would theoretically have 250 hours TT, PP-ASEL and instrument and be well prepared to continue flying on your own.

The only problem was the price tag. We all know pilots are cheap bastards, apparently that comes naturally instead of having to be taught!

FWIW, I see a lot of DA40s belonging to flight schools and clubs, not so many with private owners (though there are plenty of those as well).

Cirrus is definitely a lifestyle brand, and so I agree with the premise that they advertise to a certain flying AND non-flying demographic. But Diamond is not nearly as successful for a variety of reasons.

@Rockymountain That depends on the year. I flew a 182R and a DA40 on multiple family cross countries and they were about the same performance wise. DA40 was circa 2002-3 model. Both did around 130knots. Maybe 135. And the 182 was far more versatile as an every day plane (and more comfortable for PAX).

Again, DA40 is a great plane. More inline with a 177 or SR20. SR22 is IMO a step above (and yeah, you got to pay to play et al.).

 

[flyingcheesehead]

An owner flown DA40 is probably going to vary from a flight school DA40 a good bit. More likely to have powerflow exhaust, Hartzell composite prop and tight fitting wheel fairings all of which add significant speed to the airplane. And is more likely to have upgraded interior and paint.

I think what you're seeing is just newer vs older. For example, the PowerFlow exhaust has been standard equipment on the DA40 for more than 15 years, but the oldest (and thus cheapest to acquire) DA40s that flight schools are probably more likely to have didn't have it. Same with the rest.

The DA40XL in 2007 got four things including the powerflow that increased its speed, then the XLS in 2008 got some additional creature comforts.

That is a pretty decent cross country aircraft with the extended tanks capable of 5+ hours of flight and cruising up to 147 kn true.

Both at the same time?

Ours was able to do 140 at a fuel flow low enough to still have about 5.5 hours of endurance. If you flogged it and went 145, that dropped to more like 4.3.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

@Rockymountain That depends on the year. I flew a 182R and a DA40 on multiple family cross countries and they were about the same performance wise. DA40 was circa 2002-3 model. Both did around 130knots. Maybe 135.

If you compare an older DA40 to a newer 182, yes. On average, the DA40 is a little faster than the 182.

And the 182 was far more versatile as an every day plane (and more comfortable for PAX).

For sure. Lots to like about the DA40 too though, and while the 182 is certainly more capable, the DA40 is a lot more fun to actually fly.

 

[asicer]

And the 182 was far more versatile as an every day plane (and more comfortable for PAX).

On that point, my back seat PAX loved having their own door so that's a few points in favor of the DA40.