Sunshine Protection Act of 2025

mryan75 said:
And FWIW, they’re proposing to choose exactly the opposite of what nearly every sleep and public health expert says. Instead of making DST permanent they should be making standard time permanent. In my part of the country, permanent DST would mean sunrise in the winter at close to 8:30 AM.
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To be fair, that's what I'd like. I like to be up and working (even though I'm retired) when it's dark.
 
wanttaja said:
The interesting question is whether your devices will *stop* adjusting for DST. Phones and PCs get updates that will probably cover it, but there are probably some semi-dumb devices that won't get the word.
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yeah good point....
and then there are the semi-smart devices like my two "atomic clocks" that are supposed to update based on a radio signal now, but never do. One of them can't even keep good time...it runs horribly fast.
 
My Windows 98 machine already doesn't know about the 2005 time shift date change. Now I'm really in trouble.
 
sarangan said:
Who adjusts clocks these days anyway? My wall clock adjusts itself. My phone does the same. When I go somewhere, the phone tells me if the time zone is different. When someone from afar schedules a zoom meeting with me, my calendar does the time zone conversion. Everything is automated. So why not go back to the days when every town had their own time, except we can use our GPS location to determine time? The few seconds of time difference between my home and my office is not going to be of any consequence.
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Only my PC, phone, and tablet update themselves.
I have to manually set 2 ranges, a microwave, car, plane, 3 commonly used wrist watches, wall clock, 2 alarm clocks, and a thermostat.

mryan75 said:
And FWIW, they’re proposing to choose exactly the opposite of what nearly every sleep and public health expert says. Instead of making DST permanent they should be making standard time permanent. In my part of the country, permanent DST would mean sunrise in the winter at close to 8:30 AM.
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So? What's wrong with sunrise at 8:30 a.m.? How is that so horribly different than 7:30?

Here in the upper, far-far-left corner of the lower 48, on 21 December under DST, sunrise would occur at 8:55 a.m. Sunset at 5:20 p.m.
I don't see a problem. DST or ST I still get up in the dark and see sunrise.

And just to be completely clear, I don't give a flying fig if we choose DST or ST, just stop the insane switching.
 
mryan75 said:
And FWIW, they’re proposing to choose exactly the opposite of what nearly every sleep and public health expert says.
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If true, the so-called "experts" are clueless.

Humans haven't followed sunrise/sunset sleep patterns for centuries. People work all sorts of hours, they work in window-less buildings, underground, stand watches at all hours on ships and submarines, fly jets through multiple time zones, stay up all hours posting on POA, etc., etc., etc. Shifting the clocks doesn't change the amount of daylight, and the amount of daylight changes throughout the year anyway, by more than one hour. This will have zero measurable impact on "sleep and public health."

Like the old Indian once said, "Only sleep and public health experts could think that cutting one end off a blanket and sewing it onto the other end would change the size of the blanket."
 
Half Fast said:
If true, the so-called "experts" are clueless.

Humans haven't followed sunrise/sunset sleep patterns for centuries. People work all sorts of hours, they work in window-less buildings, underground, stand watches at all hours on ships and submarines, fly jets through multiple time zones, stay up all hours posting on POA, etc., etc., etc. Shifting the clocks doesn't change the amount of daylight, and the amount of daylight changes throughout the year anyway, by more than one hour. This will have zero measurable impact on "sleep and public health."

Like the old Indian once said, "Only sleep and public health experts could think that cutting one end off a blanket and sewing it onto the other end would change the size of the blanket."
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Just because we're doing it doesn't mean it's good for us. I'm pretty certain they've proven that working third shift is bad for your health. Now do I think an hour either way moves the needle?...I doubt it.

I'm fortunate that my life is more or less uncoupled from the clock. I get up with the sun and go to sleep when I'm tired. I really hate having to get up in the dark, and I think most people do too, whether they realize it or not. I can also certainly understand why many (most) would prefer an hour or two of light after work as opposed to before.

Doesn't matter much to me, I just hate the change. I didn't really care that much before I started flying, now trying to convert between UTC and local I have to look it up every time.
 
Jim K said:
Just because we're doing it doesn't mean it's good for us. I'm pretty certain they've proven that working third shift is bad for your health.
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Probably true, but that's not changing. Permanent DST will have negligible health impact, given all the other crazy schedules we have that dwarf time change effects.
 
Half Fast said:
If true, the so-called "experts" are clueless.
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So you have superior expertise?
Half Fast said:
Humans haven't followed sunrise/sunset sleep patterns for centuries. People work all sorts of hours, they work in window-less buildings, underground, stand watches at all hours on ships and submarines, fly jets through multiple time zones, stay up all hours posting on POA, etc., etc., etc.
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Yes, some tiny percentage of the population do those things on a regular basis. And many suffer negative health effects because of it.
Half Fast said:
Shifting the clocks doesn't change the amount of daylight, and the amount of daylight changes throughout the year anyway, by more than one hour. This will have zero measurable impact on "sleep and public health."
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Based on science or assumption?

med.stanford.edu

Study suggests most Americans would be healthier without daylight saving time

According to a new analysis by Stanford Medicine scientists, changing clocks twice a year disrupts circadian rhythms, leading to higher rates of stroke and obesity.
med.stanford.edu med.stanford.edu
 
Mahneuvers said:
My Windows 98 machine already doesn't know about the 2005 time shift date change.
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I have a machine that dual boots Win98/2000. For some reason I recall installing a patch on that machine to correct the DST dates, for both operating systems.
Either way, at least both do have an option to disable automatic time changes, if this passes.
 
AV8R_87 said:
I have a machine that dual boots Win98/2000. For some reason I recall installing a patch on that machine to correct the DST dates, for both operating systems.
Either way, at least both do have an option to disable automatic time changes, if this passes.
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The timezones are defined in the registry, so you can either edit the registry, install a registry patch, or use the Power Toys.
 
Back when I still had a set schedule I always hated the change to DST, usually took around a week before I felt rested in the morning again. I wish they'd kept standard time instead but at least we're not going back and forth... there's a mountain of evidence showing how harmful that is.

The real issue has never been the clocks it's been our work/school schedules and the battle between people who like to get up at 5am vs those of us who would prefer to go to bed around midnight.
 
I grew up in central Indiana where they did not do DST prior to 2006. It works out fine. The only thing we noticed as kids was our favorite TV show times changed. Streaming negates that. :p
 
Ventucky Red said:
It was a temporary precautionary solution to a current "energy crisis" that was happening at that time. It wasn't meant to be a full time thing..
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People hated it, is the point, and it was ended 7 months before it was originally set to expire.
 
mryan75 said:
And FWIW, they’re proposing to choose exactly the opposite of what nearly every sleep and public health expert says. Instead of making DST permanent they should be making standard time permanent. In my part of the country, permanent DST would mean sunrise in the winter at close to 8:30 AM.
Click to expand...
It really depends on where in the time zone you are. I'm a night owl at the far eastern edge of my time zone, and it sucks. I'd love it to be permanent DST. I hate standard time, as in the winter it gets dark before the end of the workday so it's just dark seemingly all the time... Definitely all the time that I don't hate the world.

It might be better to redraw the time zones so that those on the east end of the time zone get "permanent DST" via shifting one time zone to the East, and those on the west end get their permanent standard time by getting permanent standard time. Or if the bill passes the way it is, shift the western part of each time zone one time zone to the west.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
To be fair, that's what I'd like. I like to be up and working (even though I'm retired) when it's dark.
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I assume you are talking about very early am hours when still dark. I'm the opposite, work lots well after everyone is at home or in bed. Nothing particularly more noble about either, to be clear. This isn't aimed at you, but I'm quite tired of hearing all the prideful morons who are morning people and can't stop telling people about it, like they are somehow more virtuous because they can't sleep through the night. Us night people get plenty of work done too, at I guess, un-christian hours.
 
Last week I was in Japan, Sunrise around 4:15, sunset around 7. That’s crazy to me. Japan is at the far east edge of its time zone. Seriously needs some rethinking.

This week I’m in Korea. Same time zone, but sunrise and sunset are at a more reasonable 5:15 and 8:00. Although I’d still prefer an hour later.

The argument about “school kids in the dark” is a lousy one. At least around here, they’re ALREADY going to school in the dark during the winter months. Another hour won’t make any difference. If it was that big of a deal, people would be insisting the school hours be changed instead of the clock. Actually, I’ve never heard of any of the “morning people” proposing we fall back an additional hour to help the school kids. :D
 
35 AoA said:
I assume you are talking about very early am hours when still dark. I'm the opposite, work lots well after everyone is at home or in bed. Nothing particularly more noble about either, to be clear. This isn't aimed at you, but I'm quite tired of hearing all the prideful morons who are morning people and can't stop telling people about it, like they are somehow more virtuous because they can't sleep through the night. Us night people get plenty of work done too, at I guess, un-christian hours.
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Night people are smarter on average; it's backed up by evidence.
 
Lindberg said:
So you have superior expertise?

Yes, some tiny percentage of the population do those things on a regular basis. And many suffer negative health effects because of it.

Based on science or assumption?

med.stanford.edu

Study suggests most Americans would be healthier without daylight saving time

According to a new analysis by Stanford Medicine scientists, changing clocks twice a year disrupts circadian rhythms, leading to higher rates of stroke and obesity.
med.stanford.edu med.stanford.edu
Click to expand...
“According to a new analysis by Stanford Medicine scientists, changing clocks twice a year disrupts circadian rhythms, leading to higher rates of stroke and obesity.” “We found that staying in standard time or staying in daylight saving time is definitely better than switching twice a year,”

This bill ends shifting the clocks.
 
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First world problem, but this will be a mess for year round golf courses in places like Florida.
No one will care, but I feel bad for the folks that will have to listen to the complaining (speaking as a former club president )
 
WDD said:
I was very interested in this, but then I retired. Now I get up when I want and go to bed when I want, and it doesn't matter much what time on the clock that might be. :biggrin:
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Heck - I might create my own calendar as well. Week starts with Sunday followed by six Saturdays.
 
sarangan said:
Who adjusts clocks these days anyway? My wall clock adjusts itself. My phone does the same. When I go somewhere, the phone tells me if the time zone is different. When someone from afar schedules a zoom meeting with me, my calendar does the time zone conversion. Everything is automated. So why not go back to the days when every town had their own time, except we can use our GPS location to determine time? The few seconds of time difference between my home and my office is not going to be of any consequence.
Click to expand...
Be careful relying on what the phone or other automated clocks say….been in north east Arkansas and depending on which what you turned I the FBO, the phone decided I was in Mountain time instead of Central…..a full hour difference.
 
sarangan said:
Who adjusts clocks these days anyway? My wall clock adjusts itself. My phone does the same. When I go somewhere, the phone tells me if the time zone is different. When someone from afar schedules a zoom meeting with me, my calendar does the time zone conversion. Everything is automated. So why not go back to the days when every town had their own time, except we can use our GPS location to determine time? The few seconds of time difference between my home and my office is not going to be of any consequence.
Click to expand...
The reason time zones were invented is because it became necessary for people in different cities to be working from the same clock, first to run the railroads and now for stuff like zoom calls. Imagine scheduling a zoom with people in different cities all using different clock times.
 
Adding to that is also why we use Zulu time for flying. Everyone is on the same clock. But for the average guy on the ground that makes no sense.
 
wanttaja said:
The interesting question is whether your devices will *stop* adjusting for DST. Phones and PCs get updates that will probably cover it, but there are probably some semi-dumb devices that won't get the word.

Ron Wanttaja
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Any device that's automatic, needs attention anyhow. Congress messed with with the DST start/end dates several times over the years, either in the guise of energy savings or to accomodate elections.
 
172andyou said:
I want the entire globe to just use UTC and be done with it. Time zones are an illusion.
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Noon will be when sun is overhead and at 12:00. Work is “9-5”. People aren’t going to leave that. Time zones will stay.
 
Mileage said:
The reason time zones were invented is because it became necessary for people in different cities to be working from the same clock, first to run the railroads and now for stuff like zoom calls. Imagine scheduling a zoom with people in different cities all using different clock times.
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We divided the world into 24 time zones because that was the average distance typically interacted with. But now we are interacting across the whole globe, so there is really no reason why we have to keep 1-hr blocks. We can still keep UTC for global time keeping, but there is really no reason why we can't divide up the globe into smaller chunks like 1 minute time zones. Scheduling meetings is not an issue now with 24 time zones, I don't see why it would become an issue if we had a 3600 time zones.
 
WDD said:
Heck - I might create my own calendar as well. Week starts with Sunday followed by six Saturdays.
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Every time someone tells me it is a holiday, I respond “For me, every day is a holiday”. I can see a calendar with 365 red letter days.
 
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X3 Skier said:
Every time someone tells me it is a holiday, I respond “For me, every day is a holiday”. I can see a calendar with 365 red letter days.
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It’s “X3 Skier Festivus” everyday!
 
sarangan said:
We divided the world into 24 time zones because that was the average distance typically interacted with.
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I think having a day last 24 hours was also a good reason. Start at international date line, move ahead one hour 24 times as you got east until you get to where you started. People seem to like it, it works.
 
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