[NA] Since 182 buy fell through, ordered a Tesla Y

I never got the logic of doing one and not the other since they provide two different outcomes.
They (ppf & ceramic) do two completely different things. They don't depend on each other.

The point of just doing the "bra", or "full-front", and not the whole car, is that those are the areas most likely to be damaged from road debris, which is from what ppf provides protection.

I got my answer with:
Automatic car wash brushes cause swirls in the paint. Ppf can protect you from them, to a point. No reason it can't go through them. All cars will stay looking better, longer, if you don't use auto carwashes. Most of us don't care enough that we'd avoid the convenience.

Car washes don't hurt ceramic coatings. They are just a more permanent "wax".

I got the ppf and ceramic so that my car would look better, longer, with less effort. After four years, it's working well. I paid $3,490 in 2021.

I use automatic car washes. Haven't noticed any difference but then I don't examine the paint up close.
 
The car put me in FSD jail on my last drive as I apparently wasn't paying close enough attention to the road.

I'm having the car full front PPF in two weeks.

Thoughts on tire and window protection?
 
The car put me in FSD jail on my last drive as I apparently wasn't paying close enough attention to the road.
Just out of curiosity, what were you doing to get the strikes? I hear a lot of people, mostly on the FB group, complaining about getting strikes but never heard what they're doing that causes them. I've never had a strike. Closest I've gotten is the first audible warning.

Thoughts on tire and window protection?
I'm not sure if the full-car ceramic coating included the windows. I haven't done anything beyond that. I did not get tint. Not sure what tire protections are available.
 
In my defense, I handed my phone to my wife and was talking her through what I needed done. Seems I should be able to do that.
Well, I guess it depends on where you're looking.

That sounds like one strike. I thought it was five strikes before you lost FSD?
 
...I thought it was five strikes before you lost FSD?
Correct. But one strike disables FSD for the current trip. I just used FSD on the way back and it worked great!

One navigation complaint: I live in an area with express lanes which are convenient but can be pricey. With Google Maps, I can look ahead and see how bad the traffic is ahead and decide if I want to jump into the express lanes. The traffic information in Tesla Navigation seems very delayed. Several times it showed clear sailing when there was heavy traffic. All of a sudden, the road would switch from blue to orange/red, of course, after I passed the express lane entrance.
 
The car I'm scheduled to take delivery of is a red/black. Three red Y's passed me while biking home from work yesterday and I'm warming to the color. W/ the two red votes above, I'm feeling even better.
The latest Tesla red ("Midnight Cherry Red") is very nice - The only red that I think is clearly prettier is Mazda's, which is freaking beautiful.

I use FSD almost exclusively.
Interesting. I didn't buy FSD ($$$$$!). Autopilot got better and better and better, and then it actually got worse when they got rid of the "nag" and I get strikes all the time now thanks to the habits they enouraged me to build, so now I'm no longer in the habit of using it. More below.

However, it is a REALLY fun car to drive by hand which is also part of why I'm not using AP as much. I also don't have a long rush hour commute on the highway any more, which is the most useful place for Autopilot/FSD.

For me, FSD is a much nicer driving experience than manually driving. This is especially true in heavy traffic, busy downtown areas, or when driving in an unfamiliar area. I wouldn't want to be without it.
It is SO much nicer to have the car doing the driving in heavy traffic that it's hard to even articulate. I used to get done with the commute exhausted, angry, and just spent. I'd have to chill in the car for 10-15 minutes to recover before I was ready to go in the house and be with my family. After I got the Tesla, I was happy and relaxed when I got home. It made a world of difference.

I would suggest subscribing for a month or two. Whatever it takes for you to get a good understanding of what it does. Then turn it on/off as needed. Maybe wait a month so you can learn the car first and will be able to concentrate on FSD while you have it.
One minor disagreement: You should automatically get a free month of FSD when the car is new. Don't take too long to try it or it'll cost you $100 to buy a month instead. That said, the last couple of times a major new version has come out they've given the entire fleet a free month to try it out so you may get another free opportunity so you can save your $100 to buy that airplane that you should be buying anyway. ;)

I have the white trim on my truck. It's shockingly easy to keep clean.
I have the white on mine. It is WAY easier to clean than people would think in terms of regular cleaning, but over time, the coating on the driver's seat will wear out and it'll start to very slowly pick up color from jeans and such. It's still more durable than other light interiors I've seen, and I'd absolutely do it again.

The first week with an EV is weird. one-pedal driving and such. After a couple drives it becomes second nature.
And the next time you rent a car that isn't an EV, you'll realize that gas cars are downright primitive and you won't believe we've put up with them for so long.

Also, when you do rent that gas car, you are going to need a checklist because of all the steps you no longer have to do in the Tesla:
1) Shift into park
2) Turn off the engine
3) Lock the doors

Larry in TN nailed the range anxiety concern. Just like flight planning. In 25K+ miles I can't think of a time I have to wait on charging. On long distance trips I schedule it around a bathroom break or maybe lunch. My range exceeds my bladder - just like on my plane. Being able to charge at home (or work) is pretty cool too.
More often than not, the car is ready to go again before I am.

If you turn it off, how long does it take you to regain situational awareness and resume human-in-the-loop driving? Do you have to practice hand flying driving in case the automation loses its marbles? Does it degrade gracefully, or is it all-or-nothing?
It does not just "let go". It will (LOUDLY) warn you that you need to take over, and it may slow down if it's for deteriorating weather. You still need to manually disengage it by hitting the brake or the stalk or overpowering it on the steering, at which point you'll have complete control and the warnings will extinguish.

I have heard that if you don't respond whatsoever to the warning, that it will assume you're incapacitated and it will safely pull over and call 911. I have never been able to tolerate the warnings long enough to see if that's true!

Maybe a better question is, is FSD a CAVU kind of thing as opposed to an ILS to minimums kind of thing?
I have been in conditions where it drives just fine and I would have been challenged. Night, rain heavy enough to have standing water on surfaces reflecting all the lights around and making it difficult to see the lines, and into a construction zone where there were lots of "fake" lines because lanes were moved around and such. It was shocking how good it was. That said, I've also had it go 10mph slower than I would be able to in some bad weather conditions.
 
I can't wrap my head around a car that might drive me under a semi, or into a fireman, or into a bridge abutment when it goes nuts, even if statistically it might some day be safer for some people.
They have a ton of data on it, and they release a quarterly report with how it's doing.

I haven't been paying as much attention recently, but a while back Tesla without AP or FSD engaged was twice as safe as the overall average; engaging AP/FSD doubled the safety again. (Measured in number of accidents per 100K miles IIRC.) And even if you do get in an accident, Teslas are crazy safe - There was a guy who drove his family off a 200-foot cliff in an attempted murder-suicide, and not only did they all survive, the kids who were in the back seat had no/minor injuries.

Interestingly, it looks like the basic Autopilot is going away with v14. It will be Autosteer by FSD. Haven't heard too much about that yet but it sounds like they're eliminating the separate stack so basic Autopilot will use the FSD engine but with the advanced FSD features disabled. Should produce a much smoother experience for those without FSD.
I sure hope so. My recent annoyance with Autopilot is that since they got rid of the nag and started using the cabin camera to make sure you're paying attention, I get strikes almost every time I use it for any length of time. Why? Well, before the nag it would just flash blue if it didn't sense your hand on the wheel for a semi-random length of time to get your attention and the screen would say something asking you to put some force on the wheel.

Now, if you aren't looking straight ahead enough - And as a former truck driver I probably check my mirrors a lot more than the average driver - it will flash the screen blue and when you look at the screen because it got your attention it says PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD! (well why were you trying to get me to pay attention to the screen then dagnabit?) And each time it does that it gives you less time to pay attention to the road before it cuts out and gives you a strike. Generally, these days, if I use AP for more than an hour I'll end up with a strike. I'm very much looking forward to Autosteer by FSD.

If the system has decided it is incapable of driving (as you described) then how does it continue driving safely as it degrades "slowly?" It would be nice if failure modes and effect analysis could be as simple as "always/never" but as always, that is never the case.
It seems to be a combination of being aware that conditions are getting worse and it's having more trouble, combined with doing its best until you take over. It doesn't ever just stop working, it gets you to take over as I described above.

Next to the battery icon on the screen there is a milage remaining figure. It is almost completely worthless as it's based on your SoC and EPA efficiency rating. Tap that number of mile and it will toggle to a battery percentage, just like your phone. That is much more useful.

If you want a more accurate (very accurate) estimate of your range, you need to navigate to a destination. It will give you a predicted arrival SoC based on the current weather, elevation changes, and speed limits of the roads you're routing on.

There's also an Energy app that you access from the "..." menu button near the center of the bottom menu bar. The energy app is the green line graph icon.

The Energy app can give you range based on your recent driving conditions at three different "look back" ranges. From memory, it's something like "15 miles", "30 miles", and one other. This is likely what most folks are expecting from the range display next to the battery icon.

The Energy app will also show you your current trip on a graph that compares your predicted consumption and your actual consumption. There's also a breakdown of what systems used your energy and if each was above, or below, prediction. i.e. elevation changes, fast acceleration, climate control, etc.
^^^^ This. Is. Excellent. Advice. ^^^^

I just don't drive that much. I have to go into work 3x/week and more often than not ride my bike. My car sometimes goes weeks not driven. When I don't bike to work I drive to the train where there are charging stations. Considering all if that, and the fact I'm now an empty nester and there is a non-trivial chance we'll move soon, I'm going to limp along plugging into a regular outlet.
You may find that that's enough for you long term. My mom has a Y and doesn't drive a ton, she was worried about getting an electrician out to install a 240V outlet when she got the car and I told her she'd be able to plug it into a regular outlet for the time being and head to a fast charger if it wasn't enough. After the first couple of weeks she canceled the electrician and has now had the car for over two years just plugging it into a regular 110V outlet whenever she's home.

Correct. But one strike disables FSD for the current trip.
The only thing you need to do to reset it is put the car in park. Off the highway, just go to Park and immediately back into Drive at the next red light. On the highway, if you have a ways to go and want it back, just take the next exit and do the same before getting right back on the entrance ramp. It's a stop-and-go.

One navigation complaint: I live in an area with express lanes which are convenient but can be pricey. With Google Maps, I can look ahead and see how bad the traffic is ahead and decide if I want to jump into the express lanes. The traffic information in Tesla Navigation seems very delayed. Several times it showed clear sailing when there was heavy traffic. All of a sudden, the road would switch from blue to orange/red, of course, after I passed the express lane entrance.
One thing I have heard somewhat recently is that Google Maps only updates traffic levels every 10 minutes (not specific to Tesla). That might be what you're seeing.
 
Today, FSD turned right on red where there was a sign preventing it. Before I was able to hit the break I got a green arrow. Maybe the car was just "pulling up" but it sure seemed like it was going.
 
Today, FSD turned right on red where there was a sign preventing it. Before I was able to hit the break I got a green arrow. Maybe the car was just "pulling up" but it sure seemed like it was going.
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just pulling up. I've had the Model 3 try to turn me left at a T-intersection that was right turn only.

I've also observed a Model Y turn left at a different right turn only intersection, but in that case I couldn't tell whether it was the car or the driver at fault.
 
Today, FSD turned right on red where there was a sign preventing it. Before I was able to hit the break I got a green arrow. Maybe the car was just "pulling up" but it sure seemed like it was going.
just for funsies I hit up a local tesla showroom. test drove one with fsd, which was really, REALLY awesome, with one exception when it tried to kill us. it had the right blinker on and the nav was saying turn right but it went straight, past a concrete mons pubis-looking triangular median and turned right from the straight lane. all of this was happening while the salesdude was saying how rock solid the fsd is. OTHER THAN THAT, it literally drove us from the parking spot to our destination and back, then not only parked the car for us, it backed into the spot, which is almost enough by itself for me to want one (I'm a backer inner).



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Well, before the nag it would just flash blue if it didn't sense your hand on the wheel for a semi-random length of time to get your attention and the screen would say something asking you to put some force on the wheel.
I haven't driven an Autosteer-only car in over 2-1/2 years, long before the camera eye-tracking was introduced.

With FSD (v12.6.4), if you aren't looking (in a directly appropriate for what the car is trying to do) you will first get a text message in the middle of the screen, then the blue flashing, then an audio alert, and then... I don't know. I've always looked back at the road by then and it's gone away.

Occasionally, if your on a very dark road it will temporarily lose the ability to try your eyes and will need to feel the torque on the wheel. The little green dot, in the upper-left corner, goes away and it's back to the behavior from the pre-camera days. That's never lasted longer than a minute or two for me.

Here's a video just out showing FSD v14.1 in some challenging situations. This is the early release of v14 and it will be 14.2 or 14.3 by the time it goes wide. The video shows some rough edges, which are typical with the first early release. They should be gone by the wide release. What's really impressive about it is how it evaluates the situations where there isn't room for two cars to pass on a tight residential street. Very human-like.

 
Here's a video just out showing FSD v14.1 in some challenging situations. This is the early release of v14 and it will be 14.2 or 14.3 by the time it goes wide. The video shows some rough edges, which are typical with the first early release. They should be gone by the wide release. What's really impressive about it is how it evaluates the situations where there isn't room for two cars to pass on a tight residential street. Very human-like.

OK, that's pretty cool. I wouldn't have expected it to be able to do drive throughs, flagmen, or less-than-two-lane situations like that. Impressive.

I wonder if it's smart enough to pull into my driveway after it drives me home yet. :rofl:

I'm hoping that they get v14 down to HW3 cars and have a free trial. I'd give it another try for sure... But yeah, like another person in this thread, so far the free trials have only reinforced my decision not to buy FSD.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just pulling up...
Probably. This is the right turn only intersection. There were no cars in front of me so I approached the intersection rolling. I was expecting FSD to stop me before the white line/crosswalk. I was about where the car in the picture was when I moved to apply the break, but then the light turned green.
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Probably. This is the right turn only intersection. There were no cars in front of me so I approached the intersection rolling. I was expecting FSD to stop me before the white line/crosswalk. I was about where the car in the picture was when I moved to apply the break, but then the light turned green.

simple explanation: the car was communicating with the lights and knew when the light would turn green. shades of skynet/HAL/etc
 
...I'm very much looking forward to Autosteer by FSD...
I tried Autosteer today figuring I don't see myself paying for FSD except for rare circumstances. One aspect about current FSD I like is not having to have my hands on the wheel. Autosteer kept prompting me to exert slight force to the wheel. Until that's addressed, I won't use Autosteer much.
 
I wonder if it's smart enough to pull into my driveway after it drives me home yet.
Yes, v14 has significantly improved parking capabilities. You can specify how you want it to park at your destination, i.e. driveway, street, or parking lot. Early videos have show it going up and down the rows in a crowded parking lot looking for a spot. Dirty Tesla showed it pulling into his garage.


I'm hoping that they get v14 down to HW3 cars and have a free trial.
They've said that if they can't get unsupervised FSD on HW3 they will upgrade the cars of those who have purchased it.

This is the right turn only intersection.
That's interesting. It is a double-turn lane but the sign is over the outer lane. Are there any other signs? From that one picture, I wonder if it's no right turn on red for both lanes or just the outer lane?

At least on v13, or earlier, I would trust it completely on plain English signs. I've seen many instances where it figures out the signs and others where it does not. It is still FSD Supervised.
 
...Are there any other signs? From that one picture, I wonder if it's no right turn on red for both lanes or just the outer lane?...
It's definitely a complex intersection so I'm giving FSD some slack. These two lights and signs are across the street (and barely visible in my initial picture) so both lanes are no turn on red.

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Two somewhat small FSD incidents: (1) Approached an intersection where there was a 2nd intersection (where I needed to turn left) about 100 yards further down the road. FSD turned on the blinker approaching the 1st intersection turning it off only after we entered the intersection. Had a car been coming in the opposite direction, turning left in front of me, they might have started turning thinking I was turning. (2) Entered a feeder road leading to a series of parking lots where one was being re-paved and had an entrance coned off. I disengaged FSD as it started turning into the cones. I'm sure FSD wouldn't have plowed into the cones, but, it would have left me perpendicular in a narrow road w/ people behind and in front of me.
 
I tried Autosteer today figuring I don't see myself paying for FSD except for rare circumstances. One aspect about current FSD I like is not having to have my hands on the wheel. Autosteer kept prompting me to exert slight force to the wheel. Until that's addressed, I won't use Autosteer much.
Yeah, it's in kind of an odd place right now - Keep in mind that "Autosteer by FSD" will essentially be FSD *except* it won't change lanes, stop at signs or lights, etc.

Autosteer in its current iteration is getting kind of old. I don't think they've changed it since they got slapped by the NHTSA lady, which didn't make its driving any better, it just got much more annoying about strikes and "jail" and driver attention in general.

Yes, v14 has significantly improved parking capabilities. You can specify how you want it to park at your destination, i.e. driveway, street, or parking lot. Early videos have show it going up and down the rows in a crowded parking lot looking for a spot. Dirty Tesla showed it pulling into his garage.
Can you tell it "Always pull into the garage at home?" Or will it ask every time?

They've said that if they can't get unsupervised FSD on HW3 they will upgrade the cars of those who have purchased it.
...Which I didn't.
 
Can you tell it "Always pull into the garage at home?" Or will it ask every time?
I've only seen videos from the early access testers. From what I've seen, it is an option and I think it picks what it thinks is appropriate for the destination then you have the ability to pick a different option, if you want. I don't think it ever asks.

...Which I didn't.
That will be interesting when we get to that point. Will the free upgrade be only for people who purchased, not subscribed, to FSD and will there be a cutoff date for that purchase, after which, you'll have to pay for the upgrade? I don't think any of that has been discussed.
 
The 20A socket was hiding behind a whole house vacuum. 15A was working fine w/ my limited driving so it's likely I'll now never need a L2 charger.
That's where mine is as well.

Have you ordered the 5-20 UMC adapter?

On my M3, I got 6 to 7 mph when I tested on 5-20. You might be 5-6 in the MY?
 
lol. Very true. I imagine my round trip train fare is more than the electricity I'm consuming so they're just getting a little less $ out of me.
That's an interesting incentive. They're providing an extra incentive for the cleanest cars to not drive into the city. Maybe there should be a fee for the EV charging but all ICE vehicles, whose owner is taking the train, should get a free gallon of gasoline. LOL

Combined with your Level 1 charging, the Level 2 at the train station should have you pretty well set for most situations.
 
That's an interesting incentive. They're providing an extra incentive for the cleanest cars to not drive into the city. Maybe there should be a fee for the EV charging but all ICE vehicles, whose owner is taking the train, should get a free gallon of gasoline. LOL

Combined with your Level 1 charging, the Level 2 at the train station should have you pretty well set for most situations.
Careful, you're trying to apply the rules of logic to a government process... I've found using the metric of "what's the least efficient method, from an economic or thermodynamic perspective" is usually a better predictor of cause.
 
After only 8 years and 64k miles, the Forester has easily consumed more maintenance than all other vehicles I've owned, combined. Finally got tired of throwing good money after bad. Pulled the trigger on a Niro EV. Already have 50A 220 in the garage.
 
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