[NA] Since 182 buy fell through, ordered a Tesla Y

Couple thoughts:

I have the white trim on my truck. It's shockingly easy to keep clean.

On FSD. If you're my generation, remember when people started getting cell phones? You thought it was the stupidest thing ever. Then you got one and have had one ever since. It's a permanent decision once you try it. It just works.

The first week with an EV is weird. one-pedal driving and such. After a couple drives it becomes second nature.

Larry in TN nailed the range anxiety concern. Just like flight planning. In 25K+ miles I can't think of a time I have to wait on charging. On long distance trips I schedule it around a bathroom break or maybe lunch. My range exceeds my bladder - just like on my plane. Being able to charge at home (or work) is pretty cool too.

YMMV - But I love mine.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
But how do I come up with an excuse to drive the Mercedes every now and then?
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Well, that's on you.

I have two Mazda3s that I used to really like. Now the kids drive them. Since I got my Tesla four years ago, I've driven one of them exactly once. It felt like something was wrong with it. Other than that, I've only occasionally moved them in/out of the garage or driveway.
 
Mikey52 said:
Yea, the problem I have is going back to a none self driving car. It's easy to become complacent. I love the fsd.
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If you turn it off, how long does it take you to regain situational awareness and resume human-in-the-loop driving? Do you have to practice hand flying driving in case the automation loses its marbles? Does it degrade gracefully, or is it all-or-nothing?

Our Forester falls into the latter category- if it decides that the rain or snow is heavy enough, all automation cuts out with no warning. I am not a fan. I might feel better about it if it displayed some measure of how much margin it had.

Maybe a better question is, is FSD a CAVU kind of thing as opposed to an ILS to minimums kind of thing?

GeorgeC,
who knows where he is, and cares
 
jbarrass said:
Couple thoughts:

I have the white trim on my truck. It's shockingly easy to keep clean.

On FSD. If you're my generation, remember when people started getting cell phones? You thought it was the stupidest thing ever. Then you got one and have had one ever since. It's a permanent decision once you try it. It just works.

The first week with an EV is weird. one-pedal driving and such. After a couple drives it becomes second nature.

Larry in TN nailed the range anxiety concern. Just like flight planning. In 25K+ miles I can't think of a time I have to wait on charging. On long distance trips I schedule it around a bathroom break or maybe lunch. My range exceeds my bladder - just like on my plane. Being able to charge at home (or work) is pretty cool too.

YMMV - But I love mine.
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Hello: 2-1/2 year Model Y owner here. I love the car and drive it daily. Since I drive non-EV vehicles regularly (particularly at work), I sometimes make mistakes with the controls when I switch.
Nothing too dangerous, though, (like trying to activate the wipers with the turn signal stalk). As for FSD, I am indifferent to it. Have had two free month-long trial periods, and came away less
than convinced. It still has faults, like persistent phantom braking and trip-outs at inopportune times. For me using the Autopilot for freeway drives is enough (and that I have already). Still,
improvements are coming and I will be happy to give it another go when another free trial comes along (rumored to happen shortly).

A couple of funny stories about my trials of FSD: In the parking lot at work (a large rectangle of asphalt with no marked parking spaces), I once tried Smart Summon. The car advanced about ten
feet, then stopped and refused to move any more. In the same parking lot I enabled FSD with Home as the destination (leaving work one day). The car took me around in a circle (couldn't find
the exit). It came to it's senses once I had driven it out the exit to the driveway.

Dave
 
GeorgeC said:
If you turn it off, how long does it take you to regain situational awareness and resume human-in-the-loop driving?
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If you turn it off, it's off. At this point, you shouldn't have ever been out-of-the-loop as it is still FSD supervised. On the rare occasions where it disconnects on its own, it makes plenty of noise, like an autopilot disconnect on the airplane, so you won't miss it.

You can disconnect FSD three ways. Touching the brake (just like a cruise control), turning the steering wheel (it resists at first then releases), or lifting up on the stalk/pressing the FSD button (depending on how the car is equipped). It makes an ascending two "bong" sound when it engages and a descending two "bong" sound when disengaging.

cessna182b said:
It still has faults, like persistent phantom braking and trip-outs at inopportune times.
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What version did you last try?

You and I have HW3 cars so current version is v12.6.4. Mahneuvers new Y will have AI4 and v13, soon to be v14.

I started on an early v11 build, and back then, the things you describe were common. Not so much anymore. I recently cleaned the inside of the windshield in front of the front cameras and that eliminate the disconnects when turning into the sun. My car was just short of 4yrs old when I cleaned it. I guess a film builds up over the years from the outgassing. It only takes about 10 minutes. YouTube has videos describing the process. If that's what's causing your "trip-outs" you might give it a try.
 
The only issue I had with my FSD is when it was really windy and the stop lights were swinging in the wind to such an extent the Tesla detected a green light because it saw the perpendicular light and it started to go on the red light. I quickly tapped the brakes and said not today Elon, not today. Me 1, the robot army 0.
 
Probably a lot of people were afraid of the first automobiles. Going 30-40 miles an hour, no sense like a horse has, an easy way to get killed. Maybe it took a new generation to grow up with them and accept them for what they are. And what they are is crazy dangerous, especially the old cars. Plate glass windows, no seat belts, horrible brakes, skinny tires, etc.

I can't wrap my head around a car that might drive me under a semi, or into a fireman, or into a bridge abutment when it goes nuts, even if statistically it might some day be safer for some people. Everyone on here knows that "0" is not the appropriate amount of time to switch from autopilot to manual. But folks that grow up with it will be fine with it. Just like lots of people here were fine as kids riding in the back of a pickup truck. It doesn't have to be safe, people just have to believe it's safe.

But back to the thread title, every time I read it, I keep wondering what the stall speed of a Tesla is, and if the wing goes on top or bottom.
 
Albany Tom said:
I keep wondering what the stall speed of a Tesla is, and if the wing goes on top or bottom.
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tesla-model-x-falcon-wing-doors.webp
 
Albany Tom said:
Everyone on here knows that "0" is not the appropriate amount of time to switch from autopilot to manual.
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I don't understand this comment. You believe that it should continue to drive on FSD after the driver disconnects it?
 
Larry in TN said:
I don't understand this comment. You believe that it should continue to drive on FSD after the driver disconnects it?
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No, what I mean is that if the automatic driving decides it can't automatically drive anymore, and needs to hand it over to the human, that the reaction time of the human can never be 0. Or in other words, if the computer is going to disconnect, it absolutely needs to give time to the user to take the controls.
 
Albany Tom said:
No, what I mean is that if the automatic driving decides it can't automatically drive anymore, and needs to hand it over to the human, that the reaction time of the human can never be 0. Or in other words, if the computer is going to disconnect, it absolutely needs to give time to the user to take the controls.
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It doesn't do as you imagine. It continues to steer, and slows. I don't think I've ever had such a disengagement at more than 20 or 25mph so I'm not sure if it would brake/stop if at high speed. You still need to disengage the autopilot to takeover.

I don't think I've had a single instance since I cleaned the inside of my windshield in front of the cameras. I waited almost four years to clean mine. I'm now going to add that two my 2-year cabin filter change.

Haven't seen any significant phantom braking in quite some time. That was mostly on the basic autopilot, 2+ years ago, before I had FSD. What it will sometimes do now is slow a bit for a shadow that it's probably initially interpreting as a speed bump or road hazard. I would think that's a function of processor speed so should be less likely in the newer AI4 cars.

Interestingly, it looks like the basic Autopilot is going away with v14. It will be Autosteer by FSD. Haven't heard too much about that yet but it sounds like they're eliminating the separate stack so basic Autopilot will use the FSD engine but with the advanced FSD features disabled. Should produce a much smoother experience for those without FSD.

If you ever come through Nashville, look me up. We'll go for a ride.
 
Albany Tom said:
No, what I mean is that if the automatic driving decides it can't automatically drive anymore, and needs to hand it over to the human, that the reaction time of the human can never be 0. Or in other words, if the computer is going to disconnect, it absolutely needs to give time to the user to take the controls.
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How long should the system that has "decided" it is no longer capable of self-driving continue the self-driving it is not capable of doing to allow for some unquantifiable reaction time of the current meat servo?

Nauga,
who prefers a shallow HAL
 
nauga said:
How long should the system that has "decided" it is no longer capable of self-driving continue the self-driving it is not capable of doing to allow for some unquantifiable reaction time of the current meat servo?

Nauga,
who prefers a shallow HAL
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:) I know that's a setup question, but I'll lead with a paraphrase of an Eddie Rickenbacker quote that I can't find a reference to. Roughly, it was that driving an automobile was more dangerous than flying, because you had less time to react to a problem. If the plane is halfway trimmed OK, and the autopilot kicks out at X thousand feet and beeps at you, no big deal. Now on the other hand, if you're flying an approach into Buffalo and you have ice on your wings and it kicks out a X hundred feet, way out of trim, then maybe different...

But back to cars. The answer of course is that the system should degrade slowly in a way to meet whatever the time constraints are for an X percentile human driver. If it always works the way that Larry describes above, degrading gradually, then that could be a reasonable way to approach it.
 
Ffs, you promptly post pictures and Mr. ffs doesn't even notice.
 
Albany Tom said:
But back to cars. The answer of course is that the system should degrade slowly in a way to meet whatever the time constraints are for an X percentile human driver.
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If the system has decided it is incapable of driving (as you described) then how does it continue driving safely as it degrades "slowly?" It would be nice if failure modes and effect analysis could be as simple as "always/never" but as always, that is never the case.

Nauga,
asleep at the wheel
 
I commute 200 miles a day for work. Would a model Y be able to make this trip daily from a home charger?
 
Bacho said:
I commute 200 miles a day for work. Would a model Y be able to make this trip daily from a home charger?
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Day one of ownership, but, I think so. Range is ~300 miles and the 240V/L2 charger only requires over night to full charge.
 
Bacho said:
I commute 200 miles a day for work. Would a model Y be able to make this trip daily from a home charger?
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If you want to math it out, an EV in the model Y class works out to be around 3.5-4.5 miles per kWh. A 240volt home outlet works out to be in the range of 5.7kW (a re-used electric dryer outlet) to 11.5kW (higher end outlet wired by an electrician).

Best case, 4 hours to charge 200 miles. Worst case, 10 hours.

A 120volt home outlet is half the amps and half the volts of a dryer outlet, so that wouldn't be advisable.
 
Mahneuvers said:
Day one of ownership, but, I think so. Range is ~300 miles and the 240V/L2 charger only requires over night to full charge.
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I'm not sure how much you know about the car yet but this reminded me of one tip.

Next to the battery icon on the screen there is a milage remaining figure. It is almost completely worthless as it's based on your SoC and EPA efficiency rating. Tap that number of mile and it will toggle to a battery percentage, just like your phone. That is much more useful.

If you want a more accurate (very accurate) estimate of your range, you need to navigate to a destination. It will give you a predicted arrival SoC based on the current weather, elevation changes, and speed limits of the roads you're routing on.

There's also an Energy app that you access from the "..." menu button near the center of the bottom menu bar. The energy app is the green line graph icon.

The Energy app can give you range based on your recent driving conditions at three different "look back" ranges. From memory, it's something like "15 miles", "30 miles", and one other. This is likely what most folks are expecting from the range display next to the battery icon.

The Energy app will also show you your current trip on a graph that compares your predicted consumption and your actual consumption. There's also a breakdown of what systems used your energy and if each was above, or below, prediction. i.e. elevation changes, fast acceleration, climate control, etc.

That may all sound very complicated but, while it's fun to play with, you really don't need any of it other than your navigation and the SoC percentage next to the battery icon. Navigate to your destination and the car will take car of the charging for you.

I don't think you've mentioned your charging setup. What are you using at home?
 
Larry in TN said:
...I don't think you've mentioned your charging setup. What are you using at home?
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I just don't drive that much. I have to go into work 3x/week and more often than not ride my bike. My car sometimes goes weeks not driven. When I don't bike to work I drive to the train where there are charging stations. Considering all if that, and the fact I'm now an empty nester and there is a non-trivial chance we'll move soon, I'm going to limp along plugging into a regular outlet.
 
Mahneuvers said:
Considering all if that, and the fact I'm now an empty nester and there is a non-trivial chance we'll move soon, I'm going to limp along plugging into a regular outlet.
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If your garage has a 20A outlet, it's been code for a while to have one, you can get the 5-20 adapter for the Mobile Connector for $35 from the Tesla shop. That will increase your charge rate by close to 50%.
 
Mahneuvers said:
21 year old house. No 20A in garage :-(
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That's too bad. My 23 year old house has one that also feeds the two outdoor outlets. Doesn't look like it entered the NEC until 2017, though. Wouldn't be very expensive to put in if you find that you could use the extra speed later on.
 
Mahneuvers said:
Thoughts on PPF? Is it worth it?
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You are leasing so I wouldn't think so. If anything, just the "bra".

You're balancing the cost of the ppf against the end-of-lease costs they'll charge for the damage that the ppf can prevent. I'd also find out if they'll require you to have it removed at the end of the lease or charge you because of the "modification". Also, factor in whether or not you'll buy out the lease at the end of the term.

I bought ppf for my car. I have the full front plus the rocker panels between the wheels. I've been very happy with its performance. I do have a spot on the hood where the ppf is damaged so it worked there in preventing a big paint chip. The front, where the grill normally goes, is also very clean.

I also had the full car ceramic coating. That doesn't protect the car from physical damage like ppf but it is like an (almost) permanent coat of wax. Four years later, the water still beads as though it was just waxed.
 
Larry in TN said:
Okay, then I would recommend getting the full front ppf and consider the full car ceramic coating. It will keep it looking better, longer, and with less effort from you.
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I've been debating whether this ceramic stuff is quackery or not. Any resources to recommend so I can get up to speed? My purchased EV turns 2 years old next month and I'd like it to shine until the CPO warranty dies in 2032 :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I've been debating whether this ceramic stuff is quackery or not. Any resources to recommend so I can get up to speed? My purchased EV turns 2 years old next month and I'd like it to shine until the CPO warranty dies in 2032 :D
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Depends. Ceramic makes it shiny, ppf (film) prevents rock chips/scratches, etc. For ceramic, existing scratches, etc., may not be ‘correctable’…all you end up with is a shiny scratch. All the high end stuff will tell you from this point forward there are no more automatic car washes, so if your hobby isn’t washing the car, ceramic isn’t for you.

When we got my wife her RX350, it was new. I took it down the road to a reputable place and got a near-5 digit quote for ceramic with ppf over it. The ceramic polishes the paint and then the clear film protects it. The quote for ceramic only was nearly $4K. Went to three more places and got back similar answers; although one flat out said he won’t do ceramic without the ppf since he got tired of people complaining about their brand new ceramic didn’t prevent a rock chip on the way home.

With a 2-year old paint job, if it isn’t pristine then temper your expectations.

ETA: check your lease whether they allow the PPF application.

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schmookeeg said:
I've been debating whether this ceramic stuff is quackery or not. Any resources to recommend so I can get up to speed? My purchased EV turns 2 years old next month and I'd like it to shine until the CPO warranty dies in 2032
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I'm happy with my ceramic coating but it was expensive. I paid for it because I don't want to spend a lot of time cleaning my car. I'm sure it would be cheaper to wash and wax it myself multiple times per year and the results would be very similar. I'm willing to pay more up front then not have to worry about waxing. Since I wouldn't wax regularly, my car looks better than it would without the ceramic.

I was also skeptical and surprised at the high cost. The research I did was watching a bunch of videos on YouTube about ceramic and ppf. I would recommend starting there.

TCABM said:
The ceramic polishes the paint and then the clear film protects it.
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The process, as I understand it, is that they start with paint correction, then apply the ppf, and finally put the ceramic coating on top of the ppf. Having the ceramic under the ppf wouldn't help, as it wouldn't be the top layer, and it would probably affect the ppf's ability to adhear to the car.

The paint correction process is rather involved and varies based on the condition of the car. It can include a treatment with a clay bar, compounding, and polishing. How aggressive each step gets will depend on the condition of the paint. Lots of good videos around detailing the process and showing the results.
 
Larry in TN said:
….The process, as I understand it, is that they start with paint correction, then apply the ppf, and finally put the ceramic coating on top of the ppf. ..
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That may be the correct order, it’s been two years since I got the quotes. I know the ppl was optional at a couple of the places, one offered a ‘front end’ ppf option that was grille, hood, and side mirror covers and a discount. I never got the logic of doing one and not the other since they provide two different outcomes.
 
I dont have a tesla and don't plan on any PPF.

I got my answer with:
TCABM said:
All the high end stuff will tell you from this point forward there are no more automatic car washes, so if your hobby isn’t washing the car, ceramic isn’t for you.
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Yeah don't need a job :D thx.
 
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