Mid-life Career Change to Airline Pilot. It's Doable.

The other Day I flew ADS to FTW, just to grab an Uber back to DAL to take a Southwest flight back to MCI...
The whole day seemed rather inefficient, but at least I was going home.
 
jordane93 said:
Living in base on reserve is life changing too;)
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I won the lottery with respect to the timing of all of this. 9 months in, In base, line holder with 15 days off a month min.
I should cross the 750 hour mark in Sept which bumps me up to captain pay (Left-over, soon to end benefit of the "pilot Shortage")
100% luck and timing but I will take it.
 
Larry in TN said:
That made me think about how, unlike US destinations, the Mexican airports seem to be much more segregated by mainline or Express flights. At the Mexican airports that I fly to, SJD, PVR, MEX, CUN, I don't see any US regional flights and whenever regional pilots talk about Mexican destinations, they are places that I've never been with mainline.
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We do AGU, CUU, MTY, TRC overnights but do turns to some others.
At most of our stops, I see our 175s and a lot of Aeromexico, Volaris and Viva.

CUU is the only one that I really like and think is worth dealing with customs on both sides.
If you have never been to chihuahua, it is a fantastic town with anything you could want in walking distance.

Including "LET'S GO SPORTS BAR!"

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My first line wasn't a great experience. The first month I had a line, I had the same two Captains over and over because everyone else had them on bid-avoid :goofy:

Interestingly both eventually got fired.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
We do AGU, CUU, MTY, TRC overnights but do turns to some others.
At most of our stops, I see our 175s and a lot of Aeromexico, Volaris and Viva.
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Yeah, I meant US mainline. I don't see any US RJs at the Mexican airports we go to which is strange because we see them everywhere we go in the US.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
We do AGU, CUU, MTY, TRC overnights but do turns to some others.
At most of our stops, I see our 175s and a lot of Aeromexico, Volaris and Viva.

CUU is the only one that I really like and think is worth dealing with customs on both sides.
If you have never been to chihuahua, it is a fantastic town with anything you could want in walking distance.

Including "LET'S GO SPORTS BAR!"

View attachment 151818
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Dude right next door is El Cocaina Cantina. Es muy bueno.
 
dmspilot said:
My first line wasn't a great experience. The first month I had a line, I had the same two Captains over and over because everyone else had them on bid-avoid :goofy:

Interestingly both eventually got fired.
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Just curious, how do you get fired from a position with a union and seniority? Guessing - steal an airplane, sleep with the union president's wife, taxi into the terminal windows (ala Airplane) more than twice?
 
dmspilot said:
Intentional violation of SOPs is one way.
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Joking aside, I'm familiar with some instances, not airplane but other senior union guys, where they'd break whatever rule, and get a union rep, claim one of didn't understand, was having a tough day/stress and it affected their reasoning, had an addition problem, etc., and they'd put them on some kind of program and they'd stay. But as I write that, I'm thinking that claiming emotional instability might not be the best plan for someone that needs to hold an FAA medical to stay employed.
 
Albany Tom said:
Just curious, how do you get fired from a position with a union and seniority? Guessing - steal an airplane, sleep with the union president's wife, taxi into the terminal windows (ala Airplane) more than twice?
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Airline unions don't have the power to prevent a legitimate firing for cause. They can only ensure that proper procedures are followed and the employee's rights under the Railway Labor Act are protected.
 
Larry in TN said:
Airline unions don't have the power to prevent a legitimate firing for cause. They can only ensure that proper procedures are followed and the employee's rights under the Railway Labor Act are protected.
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That makes perfect sense, thanks. I didn't know that airline labor laws were federal. Where most of the stuff I've seen and been around is, as far as I know, all covered by state labor laws, which naturally vary state by state.
 
You union will provide support and legal representation to make certain that you get a fair hearing. From the airline’s perspective, firing an employee is an expensive undertaking as the fired individual will almost always file a lawsuit(s) that must be negotiated or litigated. That’s the biggest reason why certain characters who really should be made to walk the plank never do. And often the union would prefer to see those major headaches vanish from the seniority list, perhaps moreso than the company.
 
Roger Wilco said:
as the fired individual will almost always file a lawsuit(s) that must be negotiated or litigated.
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Under the RLA, they will file grievances. Very few will later proceed to lawsuits. The best estimate I can find is low single-digit percentages.

There have been, as an example, some lawsuits over firings due to COVID vaccine mandates and other less-common reasons for terminations. You won't find many for the more common causes such as training failures, theft, DUI, intentional non-compliance with SOP, etc.
 
Larry in TN said:
Under the RLA, they will file grievances. Very few will later proceed to lawsuits. The best estimate I can find is low single-digit percentages.

There have been, as an example, some lawsuits over firings due to COVID vaccine mandates and other less-common reasons for terminations. You won't find many for the more common causes such as training failures, theft, DUI, intentional non-compliance with SOP, etc.
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I served on the grievance committee at a regional. During my tenure, three of our pilots managed to get themselves terminated. I'll spare you the details, but all three were fired for just cause and all three filed lawsuits for wrongful termination. I am aware of several similar dramas that transpired at the majors that I worked for. (Yes, that's majorS.)

If @SixPapaCharlie is working for a union shop, I strongly recommend serving on one or more of the association's committees. I found my experiences on the negotiating, grievance, and safety committees to be interesting, educational, and rewarding.
 
Roger Wilco said:
I served on the grievance committee at a regional. During my tenure, three of our pilots managed to get themselves terminated. I'll spare you the details, but all three were fired for just cause and all three filed lawsuits for wrongful termination. I am aware of several similar dramas that transpired at the majors that I worked for. (Yes, that's majorS.)

If @SixPapaCharlie is working for a union shop, I strongly recommend serving on one or more of the association's committees. I found my experiences on the negotiating, grievance, and safety committees to be interesting, educational, and rewarding.
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Yeah. I'm an ALPA member.
Starting next month, I'm off probation which means I could start utilizing their protection if ever needed.

I really don't understand how the union works but I'm interested in learning about it because I'm certainly getting a crap ton of benefits from all the work they've done for pilots.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Yeah. I'm an ALPA member.
Starting next month, I'm off probation which means I could start utilizing their protection if ever needed.

I really don't understand how the union works but I'm interested in learning about it because I'm certainly getting a crap ton of benefits from all the work they've done for pilots.
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First step: Attend your local council (LEC) meetings. The rest will become self-evident.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I really don't understand how the union works but I'm interested in learning about it because I'm certainly getting a crap ton of benefits from all the work they've done for pilots.
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Typical of most Union Workers I have been associated with as a former member of one back in the day.
 
Larry in TN said:
Airline unions don't have the power to prevent a legitimate firing for cause. They can only ensure that proper procedures are followed and the employee's rights under the Railway Labor Act are protected.
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And they can ensure that the "proper procedures" are onerous and punitive enough that the juice is only worth the squeeze in the most egregious cases.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Yeah. I'm an ALPA member.
Starting next month, I'm off probation which means I could start utilizing their protection if ever needed.

I really don't understand how the union works but I'm interested in learning about it because I'm certainly getting a crap ton of benefits from all the work they've done for pilots.
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I started out as a ALPA new hire mentor, and now I'm on to another committee. Volunteering is a great way to learn how the sausage is made.
 
Lindberg said:
And they can ensure that the "proper procedures" are onerous and punitive enough that the juice is only worth the squeeze in the most egregious cases.
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Larry in TN said:
No, they can't. The procedures are in the Railway Labor Act which was written by Congress (a long time ago).
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I may not understand the arguments being made, and I’m not an expert on labor law, but…

The RLA establishes protocol for contract negations (which, unlike the NLRB, greatly inhibits the ability of transportation industry employees to engage in self-help).

The RLA does not determine the actual terms and provisions of an agreement (CBA) between the parties. The CBA may include language regarding the manner in which disciplinary proceedings are conducted, but the actual policy that governs disciplinary matters is created and implemented by the company, not the union.

With regard to disciplinary action, the legal precedent established by NRLB v. Weingarten guarantees an employee’s right to have union representation present at any proceeding that may result in disciplinary action. The role of union representation is making certain that established policies, processes, and procedures are fairly applied in disciplinary proceedings and ensure that any resulting action is fair and just.
 
I worked as part of a union for a number of years. My experience was that some folks learned exactly what they could get away with, and danced around that line a lot. I do like to sometimes push limits, but not there. I found out what things weren't just "bad" but "could lead you to the door bad", and I avoided those completely and by a distance. So for me it was a nice time because I knew as long as I followed the right rules, and as long as there weren't any layoffs, that I'd be good. Knock on wood, it worked.

Only had to ask a union rep for advice once. His answer to the situation I got myself into was "No, you can't get formally written up by busting someone's chops who's another Caucasian male for doing a sh**ty job, but you might want to ask yourself, 'should I do that?'" As he was trying to keep from laughing and I decided I needed to mellow out a bit at work.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I won the lottery with respect to the timing of all of this. 9 months in, In base, line holder with 15 days off a month min.
I should cross the 750 hour mark in Sept which bumps me up to captain pay (Left-over, soon to end benefit of the "pilot Shortage")
100% luck and timing but I will take it.
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Nice! Looking forward to hearing about your upgrade
 
Kritchlow said:
Soon you’ll upgrade and the cycle will repeat.
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I'm flying with a young captain this week that was just force upgraded. I'm like what if I like my life the way it is... "That's why they call it force upgrade"

CA schedules seem way suckier than ours. Supply and demand I suppose. FOs probably don't wander off as much. Captains have more opportunities outside of here. I'm pretty content with all of the variables as they are currently set for me.
 
1 Year Later...

Its been 1 year. I am off probation which means I've got pretty descent seniority, I've gotten my first pay raise and moved up to 2 year pay.
I have union protection now. I hope to never have to use it. I think I am a pretty safe pilot.
I have logged 500 hours in the E-175, Gone around twice, Diverted once, Been stranded 5 nights, Junior manned once, Flown the ILS to mins about 3 times.
Ice, Snow, rain, windshear, and gremlins on the wing. I have done all the things now.

Pros:
I am a line holder with good seniority in my seat and base. This is pure luck and timing but means my quality of life is great.
Non Reving is a benefit that is worth its weight in gold. I have taken the family to Canada, Chicago, New York, Florida, California, Arizona, Wisconsin with 0 missed flights so far.
I am pretty happy to go to work which is also worth its weight in gold.
I am the most proficient at instrument flying I have ever been. I was never overly confident in my instrument flying skills prior.
Special passengers are frequent and brighten my day. Kids and adults going on their first flights are fun. I like to let them in the flight deck for photos and they seem to love that.
I am comfortable in the plane but still learning on every flight.
This is odd but I love the scheduling game. It is like gambling, watching the boards, doing the math, figuring out which trips benefit me in various ways, and trading trips. Its addicting.


Cons:
This has definitely impacted my love of aviation, especially general aviation. I suspect I might not be a plane owner this time next year but will probably join a club just to have the option.
The other part of that is I am not bothered by this at all. Me a year ago would have been mad to believe that I turned into that guy. I really don't mind it. Worth noting this has been an intense year of eating, sleeping, breathing aviation as I am learning this plane and career so that may shift as muscle memory continues to take hold.
I'm tired a lot. I haven't had a job where I am physically tired. I think it is a combination of the mental strain that flying takes combined with the shifting schedules, late nights, early mornings.
After most of my sequences, I come home and need a lengthy nap to reset.
Not being home when needed. My AC went out at the house yesterday. It was a helpless feeling when my son called and said "if the home owner is not here, they cant do the work".


Worst experience so far was holding in IMC and icing conditions over the mountains in Monterrey MX, down to bingo fuel while absolutely death gripping the grab handle. Worst turbulence I have ever experienced. I can't even begin to describe how badly we were getting rocked. I have had 2 flights like that so far.

Best was absolutely greasing my first landing and being greeted by pax that were very complimentary.
One woman approached and asked "who landed?" captain pointed at me and she said "I had no idea we were on the ground until I heard the engines get loud."
Its fun to get fist bumps after a flight. Fist bump the pilots when they butter the landing.



Fun facts
Jets don't have keys.
There is more "personal protection" on board then I would have imagined. LEO, Feds, FFDO (google that one. I had no idea).
All you have to do is buy a "service animal" vest off amazon and then you can bring your pets on vacation. So many seeing eye wiener dogs, westies, poodles, chihuahuas out there. who knew?
We pull power over the numbers just like in your Bonanza.
Sometimes people on your flights are being deported or are in a Con-Air scenario.
If the overhead bin above your seat says "Main cabin extra" your adult beverages are free of charge (at my company).
We have an app that senses turbulence on our ipad and networks with all the other ipads to generate a turbulence map.
If you are hungry at the airport, find out if they have a 7-11. Their hot section (Breakfast tacos, burritos, etc) are like $2.50 Its the most reasonable priced food in the airports.
The checklist for my Comanche is longer than the 175.
"Winglets" is a trademarked by Boeing so the 175 has an "enhanced wing tip" and the airbus has "Sharklets".
The shortest flight we do is DFW to Waco. I believe it is a sub 15 min flight if south flow. Driving would be faster than flying given boarding, taxi, etc.


It was a good move making this career change but the honeymoon and unicorn stuff is gone. This is work and it is taxing work but I prefer it and still wish I had pursued it sooner.
With the seniority system, you do start swinging the bat with the weight on the end of it and with every new schedule, there is less and less weight so there is this consistent sense of life improving.



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Sometimes its just like a Cessna.

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