regional airline pay

jesse said:
I can hit 600 hours a year while working another full-time job. Pretty sure I'd have no problems doubling that if I cared about building time and didn't have another incredibly demanding job.

Figure out a way to average 5 hours a day of flight time 5 days per week and you'd have it.
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It's more like 2-3 years for most folks, it's not the TT that holds people up, it's the cross country, instrument, night, etc.

But what's the hurry, just to jump into a low paying crap QOL job :lol:

I had like 2500ish hrs when I took my ATP, I did it because of some aspects in the first round of rule changes. If I were to have taken a regional job I would have made less than I EVER had as a CPL, including my first job as a 250-300hr greenhorn CPL.

Enjoy the journey, meet people, network, chase the QOL not the tin or what FAR part you're flying under.
 
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jordane93 said:
Initially you'll make more but Captains at Legacies are pulling in way better money
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Strong argument but not everyone will make captain at a legacy. How many years should a guy be willing to be treated like trash while waiting for the real pay to start ? If money was the goal then we all should have went and became computer engineers or something and made real cash right out of school instead of "paying dues" and making sub 30k as a professional. No thank you to the regional life.
 
Fearless Tower said:
So, about $16k per year before tax. Pretty crappy when you can make over $30k with USA Jet with the same time.

The $7k for the first 6 months at GLA came from a recent hire (interview gouge).
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Being a 500 hour pilot or something, building time is the key. You wouldn't build the time for an ATP sitting right seat in a DA-20 at USAJet for years. Trust me, that's the biggest complaint about my job now, we just don't fly enough. Oh, and the 24/7 on call nonsense.

But when it comes to pure money, you are correct. I've thought about going to GLA as a street captain, should the need arise if my job were to go away for some reason.
 
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KSCessnaDriver said:
Being a 500 hour pilot or something, building time is the key. You wouldn't build the time for an ATP sitting right seat in a DA-20 at USAJet for years. Trust me, that's the biggest complaint about my job now, we just don't fly enough. Oh, and the 24/7 on call nonsense.
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I kind of got that feeling from talking to a senior guy there on another board. It didn't sound too bad for a starting job for someone not afraid of working hard, but staying within 30 min of Willow Run all the time awaiting a call did not seem ideal.

Are you with them now?
 
Fearless Tower said:
I kind of got that feeling from talking to a senior guy there on another board. It didn't sound too bad for a starting job for someone not afraid of working hard, but staying within 30 min of Willow Run all the time awaiting a call did not seem ideal.

Are you with them now?
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Agreed on all counts. It's not bad, but it isn't a long term thing, unless you happen to want to be in the area. Never have they done me wrong so far
 
NJP_MAN said:
Strong argument but not everyone will make captain at a legacy. How many years should a guy be willing to be treated like trash while waiting for the real pay to start ? If money was the goal then we all should have went and became computer engineers or something and made real cash right out of school instead of "paying dues" and making sub 30k as a professional. No thank you to the regional life.
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True but even as a 3rd or 4th year regional FO you can make a decent living. Again it's just the first year or two that's rough. After you get past the hump it's not bad
 
NJP_MAN said:
Strong argument but not everyone will make captain at a legacy. How many years should a guy be willing to be treated like trash while waiting for the real pay to start ? If money was the goal then we all should have went and became computer engineers or something and made real cash right out of school instead of "paying dues" and making sub 30k as a professional. No thank you to the regional life.
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Exactly,
and you got to look at how many years of regional and low seniority crap pay you'll have to endure till you get to the good pay, then time till manadatory retirement,
vs just going another route and being paid well from the start.


I've said it before, if this was the 50's or 60's I'd maybe entertain the airlines, but not now in the US, and I really rather not go to the Mid East or China just for the real pay, not worth it to me.

Plus what diffrence do you make, it's cheesy I know, but if you're going to put your passion into something, it would be nice if it lived on or made the world a little better, flying people around like a bus driver for some company doesn't really do that.

I'd rather start a drop zone, do EMS work, fire bombing, heck even try my hand at starting a drone biz, something I can pass on or be proud of.

Also..

QOL QOL QOL
 
James331 said:
Exactly,
and you got to look at how many years of regional and low seniority crap pay you'll have to endure till you get to the good pay, then time till manadatory retirement,
vs just going another route and being paid well from the start.


I've said it before, if this was the 50's or 60's I'd maybe entertain the airlines, but not now in the US, and I really rather not go to the Mid East or China just for the real pay, not worth it to me.

Plus what diffrence do you make, it's cheesy I know, but if you're going to put your passion into something, it would be nice if it lived on or made the world a little better, flying people around like a bus driver for some company doesn't really do that.

I'd rather start a drop zone, do EMS work, fire bombing, heck even try my hand at starting a drone biz, something I can pass on or be proud of.

Also..

QOL QOL QOL
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I think it all depends on what the end goal is. If the goal is working for a major, then military or regional is the best route to go. If you want to fly corporate then you'll probably go a different route.
 
jordane93 said:
I think it all depends on what the end goal is. If the goal is working for a major, then military or regional is the best route to go. If you want to fly corporate then you'll probably go a different route.
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My end goal is great QOL with great pay. I don't need the big, shiny jet. I'll settle for, you know, something small like a G650 or Global.

I'm sure I'll be missing something if I never fly heavy metal. I'm definitely behind the curve on making it, if I had a shot.
 
If it provided a good QOL I'd rather fly a PA18 than a 787.

Chasing tin is for suckers.
 
James331 said:
If it provided a good QOL I'd rather fly a PA18 than a 787.

Chasing tin is for suckers.
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To each his own. Some guys want to fly airliners, some guys want to fly biz jets. Chasing either doesn't make them suckers.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I think we can all agree that the pay flying for a regional is too low for the investment required to get there, the skill required and the responsibility one assumes. To me there is zero doubt about that premise. However I also agree that if you take the job knowing all of that, you just need to shut up and do the job or go elsewhere. It really is that simple. As long as the airlines can fill the seats paying low dollar, they will do so.
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So you're saying that when you get hired into a job at X number of dollars you should never expect a raise? I don't think anyone in any given field would expect their pay to remain at present day rates. The cost of living will always go up and pay rates are going to need to go up.

Obviously regional pay rates need to increase more than just to keep up with the cost of living. I can't think of any job where I would just "shut up and do the job" and never try to improve my pay and working conditions.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
My end goal is great QOL with great pay. I don't need the big, shiny jet. I'll settle for, you know, something small like a G650 or Global.

I'm sure I'll be missing something if I never fly heavy metal. I'm definitely behind the curve on making it, if I had a shot.
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Lol!!! You only want great QOL and great pay... What else is there???

Seriously, I did the 91k/135 stuff for 20 years. Now I'm flying an A320 for a 121 carrier. No matter how good I thought my QOL was before, this airline gig is WAY, WAY better.
 
So if I'm understanding this correctly, one invests a bunch of time and money into training, ends up on the bottom rung for little pay and poor QOL, and once they make it past that, then everything improves. How is that different than going to medical/dental/law school, being an intern/resident for little pay and poor QOL before everything improves? How is that different than any other profession? What am I missing here?

BTW James, Dubai is not a bad place to live. Abu Dhabi is even better.
 
Kritchlow said:
Lol!!! You only want great QOL and great pay... What else is there???

Seriously, I did the 91k/135 stuff for 20 years. Now I'm flying an A320 for a 121 carrier. No matter how good I thought my QOL was before, this airline gig is WAY, WAY better.
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Meh, I make about the same as the majors, only work half the year, am home every night, single pilot which I like, plenty of non 121s outside of the netjets and plane senses of the world

jordane93 said:
To each his own. Some guys want to fly airliners, some guys want to fly biz jets. Chasing either doesn't make them suckers.
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I'll disagree, chasing a airframe makes you a sucker, chasing the quality of life makes you a intelligent pilot.


garyb said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, one invests a bunch of time and money into training, ends up on the bottom rung for little pay and poor QOL, and once they make it past that, then everything improves. How is that different than going to medical/dental/law school, being an intern/resident for little pay and poor QOL before everything improves? How is that different than any other profession? What am I missing here?

BTW James, Dubai is not a bad place to live. Abu Dhabi is even better.
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Lived in the desert before, I'll pass. I'd also rather not be "the help" in Dubai.
 
James331 said:
Meh, I make about the same as the majors, only work half the year, am home every night, single pilot which I like, plenty of non 121s outside of the netjets and plane senses of the world
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Plane Sense is a bit different than NetJets....

That said, good for you if you're making major airline pay. That's well above NetJets if you compare 10 year capt pay.

I use to work for a 91k operator that is now defunct. I came to a major airline last year. First year pay sucks, but QOL is like I've never had it. I'd never go back, even though I pull a more junior schedule. I didn't realize how good this was until I experienced it.
 
Kritchlow said:
Plane Sense is a bit different than NetJets....

That said, good for you if you're making major airline pay. That's well above NetJets if you compare 10 year capt pay.

I use to work for a 91k operator that is now defunct. I came to a major airline last year. First year pay sucks, but QOL is like I've never had it. I'd never go back, even though I pull a more junior schedule. I didn't realize how good this was until I experienced it.
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Just using netjets and plane sense as examples of non 121.

Glad the 121 world is working out for you, if it's providing you the lifestyle you want, it's all good!

If you don't mind me asking, what are you flying?


jordane93 said:
I guess I'm a sucker then.
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:dunno:



There are plenty of planes I'd love to fly, I'd like to fly a old Lear, DHC2, King Air, L1011, DC3 and a few others.

However I'm not going to live out of a suitcase, like a bum, work for shady air, or move out of the sweet place I live, just so I can play around with one of those airframes.

...well that's not 100% true! I've been looking for a DZ near me with a King Air that I could fly super part time, just not many KA DZs near me :wink2:

I'm not sure how many hours you have, or how far along in your career you are, or even if you're a "all in" full time pilot, despite most pilots love for flying, even if you're flying the sweetest plane on earth, if the pay sucks and the company sucks, it's not going to be fun for very long.
 
James331 said:
Just using netjets and plane sense as examples of non 121.

Glad the 121 world is working out for you, if it's providing you the lifestyle you want, it's all good!

If you don't mind me asking, what are you flying?
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Currently an A320 (PIC typed). In the 91k world I was flying the C750 (citation x) , but am typed in almost every citation.
 
James331 said:
Meh, I make about the same as the majors, only work half the year, am home every night, single pilot which I like, plenty of non 121s outside of the netjets and plane senses of the world
.
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I highly, highly doubt a PC12 medevac pilot makes the same as the major airlines pilot. :rolleyes2:


James331 said:
I'll disagree, chasing a airframe makes you a sucker, chasing the quality of life makes you a intelligent pilot. .
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Agreed. I stayed on particular airframes throughout my career which gave me better pay and more time off and clearly improved my QOL. However I went into the 121/foreign carrier world to do that as it's difficult to find a 135 job that can meet the same financials, benefits and time off.

Quality of Life indeed.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I highly, highly doubt a PC12 medevac pilot makes the same as the major airlines pilot. :rolleyes2:
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http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/208/Virgin-America.html

Just used them as a example, yeah, at 70hr a month, shy of a senior..ish capt I'm doing about the same, plus I'm working half the year and I'm always home. Didn't mean to offend any airline guys

Plus

My sched is very set, if I decided to sling realestate on the side or something, which would be very easy with my work setup and time off, I could still have plenty of time to play and easily blow most all airline pilots out of the water pay wise, even doing less than the average realtor makes around here.


The other thing I look at is how I was making decent money right out the gate.

If you look at what type of pay you have to endure to get to even the bottom of the payscale I posted, plus the years in to exceeded what I make, plus the mandatory 121 retirement age (which we don't have), over the entire career I wonder what the difference is in what you net from, say, ATP mins to 121 retirement age between airlines and higher paying non airlines.

RotorAndWing said:
I
Agreed. I stayed on particular airframes throughout my career which gave me better pay and more time off and clearly improved my QOL. However I went into the 121/foreign carrier world to do that as it's difficult to find a 135 job that can meet the same financials, benefits and time off.

Quality of Life indeed.
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:yes:
 
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James331 said:
http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/208/Virgin-America.html

Just used them as a example, yeah, at 70hr a month, shy of a senior..ish capt I'm doing about the same, plus I'm working half the year and I'm always home. Didn't mean to offend any airline guys
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You picked one of the lower paying airlines for your comparison. When compared to a major, such as AA, UAL, DL, FedEx, UPS, SWA, etc your numbers come up way short.

Also you are not very familiar with how airlines schedule as there are many variations and if one is smart enough they can make it work for them very handsomely. In my last years flying 121 I averaged 10 days a month.

Glad you like your job, however growth potential and career advancement are difficult in that sector of the business. But like they use to say "Not everybody grows up to be an astronaut". :rolleyes:
 
SkyDog58 said:
I think we can all agree that the pay flying for a regional is too low for the investment required to get there, the skill required and the responsibility one assumes. To me there is zero doubt about that premise. However I also agree that if you take the job knowing all of that, you just need to shut up and do the job or go elsewhere. It really is that simple. As long as the airlines can fill the seats paying low dollar, they will do so.
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I disagree that we all agree

from an economics standpoint, the pay is clearly still too high as there are still plenty of applicants
 
James331 said:
http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/208/Virgin-America.html

Just used them as a example, yeah, at 70hr a month, shy of a senior..ish capt I'm doing about the same, plus I'm working half the year and I'm always home. Didn't mean to offend any airline guys

Plus

My sched is very set, if I decided to sling realestate on the side or something, which would be very easy with my work setup and time off, I could still have plenty of time to play and easily blow most all airline pilots out of the water pay wise, even doing less than the average realtor makes around here.


The other thing I look at is how I was making decent money right out the gate.

If you look at what type of pay you have to endure to get to even the bottom of the payscale I posted, plus the years in to exceeded what I make, plus the mandatory 121 retirement age (which we don't have), over the entire career I wonder what the difference is in what you net from, say, ATP mins to 121 retirement age between airlines and higher paying non airlines.
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True enough about having to suffer through the early years, but the scale you posted is a pretty weak pay scale.
 
JHW said:
I disagree that we all agree

from an economics standpoint, the pay is clearly still too high as there are still plenty of applicants
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You are assuming today's pay scale is the only factor in attracting pilots.
 
Kritchlow said:
You are assuming today's pay scale is the only factor in attracting pilots.
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you seem to be making my point. The statement was that the pay is too low. Clearly it isn't.
 
JHW said:
you seem to be making my point. The statement was that the pay is too low. Clearly it isn't.
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Well for the regionals it sure is, otherwise they wouldn't be complaining about how they can't find pilot to work for scraps.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I think the same thing about someone wanting to become a college professor.
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You really don't know how things work, do you. Yeah, my undergraduate degree had to be paid for, same as yours. I was paid to go to grad school, and was in a career (albeit a low-paying one) after that.

RotorAndWing said:
So who did you fly for? I mean, making a statement like that you must have been in the industry, right?
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Actually, a lot of the pay scales are public knowledge, and have been posted on this site right here.

RotorAndWing said:
I've had a very lucrative career flying in the airlines, as well as many I know. As far as "societal respect", people in my profession certainly are more respected than your typical ultra liberal PhD spouting his inane diatribes to his students while masquerading that as "teaching".
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If you were respected you wouldn't be expected to wear a costume. I'm not, nor is anyone I know. In fact, the only people I know who have to wear a costume to work have only one thing to say to me:

"would you like fries with that"

Sorry, I've had pro pilots come through my classes disgusted at the aviation world looking for something else. I bought my bike from one. Isn't for everyone.

And you couldn't learn what I teach. You couldn't do my job. Whatdya wanna bet I could do yours?
 
steingar said:
If you were respected you wouldn't be expected to wear a costume. I'm not, nor is anyone I know. In fact, the only people I know who have to wear a costume to work have only one thing to say to me:

"would you like fries with that"

Sorry, I've had pro pilots come through my classes disgusted at the aviation world looking for something else. I bought my bike from one. Isn't for everyone.

And you couldn't learn what I teach. You couldn't do my job. Whatdya wanna bet I could do yours?
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Oh I'll take that bet :yes:

Besides have you done anything with your field outside of education?

Frankly people are starting to get wise to the universities, it's a scam, they charge insane amounts of money with very little ROI and are often "educated" by people who have near no experience outside of education themselves.

Of course in aviation we have the same thing with low time CFIs, however pilots evolve beyond that stage in a few years, many higher education folks just live their entire lives in the cesspool of "education"

And as far as a costume, so I guess you think the same of police, fire, military, coast guard, SAR, EMS, etc :rolleyes2:
 
James331 said:
Oh I'll take that bet :yes:
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You're on. You put me in a cockpit, I'll put you in a lab. Fun to watch.

James331 said:
Besides have you done anything with your field outside of education?
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Bacterial nitrogen fixation, invented a way to improve efficiency in nitrogen-poor soils. Developed and characterized the only-ever mouse model of bronchopulmonary dysplasia. Corrected long standing misconceptions on the physiological role of the retinoblastoma tumor suppressor. Not to mention all my work showing endodermal inputs on craniofacial patterning, among other things. And in my spare time I wrote two books unrelated to Genetics. But yeah, now I just teach. And I meant it, you couldn't be my student.

James331 said:
Frankly people are starting to get wise to the universities, it's a scam, they charge insane amounts of money with very little ROI and are often "educated" by people who have near no experience outside of education themselves.
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My former technician paid for his college education in two years. And his job was one of the lower paying ones in my field.

James331 said:
And as far as a costume, so I guess you think the same of police, fire, military, coast guard, SAR, EMS, etc :rolleyes2:
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Emergency personnel have to be easily identifiable. So do soldiers, so everyone knows who's side they're on in a fight. Why do pilots have to wear costumes again?
 
steingar said:
You really don't know how things work, do you. Yeah, my undergraduate degree had to be paid for, same as yours. I was paid to go to grad school, and was in a career (albeit a low-paying one) after that.
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yes, I'm very well aware of "how things work" :rolleyes2:

Glad you got paid to go to grad school so you could pursue your low pay career. O

steingar said:
If you were respected you wouldn't be expected to wear a costume. I'm not, nor is anyone I know. In fact, the only people I know who have to wear a costume to work have only one thing to say to me:

"would you like fries with that"
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So a uniform upsets you? Actually I sorta like it, the company pays for it, I don't have to think about what to wear to work.

Maybe the airlines should just fly their planes in zinc chromate green, allow the cabin crew and pilots to wear t-shirts and jeans with flip flops. :eek: :rofl:


steingar said:
Sorry, I've had pro pilots come through my classes disgusted at the aviation world looking for something else. I bought my bike from one. Isn't for everyone.
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So? EVERY profession has people who felt they made the wrong choice. I've shared my cockpit with former MD's, Attorneys, Oceanographers, PhD's, Cops, funeral directors, etc. they left their careers to fly and never looked back.

steingar said:
And you couldn't learn what I teach. You couldn't do my job. Whatdya wanna bet I could do yours?
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Well that's rather pompous. :rolleyes2: :rofl:

"Those who can do, those who can't, teach".
 
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