regional airline pay

I would go find a beat-up PC-ATD in an FBO somewhere.

PC flight sims (Like MSFS or X-Plane) are much smoother and easier to fly than the PC-ATDs. If you can do a full ILS to mins and holds in a PC-ATD, you should be able to handle anything.


I used a MS flight sim X with a satek yoke and pedals off Craig's list to prep for my ATP, cost me under 100 bucks and worked great.

Sold the yoke and pedals to anothe pilot a year later for more than I paid for them :yesnod:
 
Going back to regional pay, I received a post card in the mail about ExpressJet having an Open House with the sims where people can fly around. I'm sure they might lock everyone in a room, have them do three laps around the pattern, then stick a uniform on, and throw them on a schedule.

I might see if I can go if an instructor will sign my logbook.

Desperate times for strictly 50 seat operations , they are guaranteed doom . The industry is parking them as fast as staffing on 70 seat operations will allow .
 
If you were to go to one of these, what's the best way to prepare? Fly a steam gauge flight sim on your home PC and make sure your instrument skills are sharp?

What good would that do. You go to a regional 90% chance you're going into a glass jet. Have a decent scan and a willingness to drink from the firehose for a couple months, is the best bet. And a case of Ramen.
 
Desperate times for strictly 50 seat operations , they are guaranteed doom . The industry is parking them as fast as staffing on 70 seat operations will allow .

Not all 50 seat jets will go away, Delta plans to keep 125 or so of them, last I heard. But yes, quite a few will end up parked.
 
What good would that do. You go to a regional 90% chance you're going into a glass jet. Have a decent scan and a willingness to drink from the firehose for a couple months, is the best bet. And a case of Ramen.


True, but the interview usually involves flying some kind of steam gauge PC-ATD sim for an evaluation, doesn't it?
 
If you were to go to one of these, what's the best way to prepare? Fly a steam gauge flight sim on your home PC and make sure your instrument skills are sharp?

Your on the right track , IFR TERPS knowledge is what seems to be most lacking these days from the "green" new hires , that along with a very lagging ability to revert from full automation to no automation. Sim time is very expensive so it's not really designed for remedial training on basic IFR stuff (have seen several CFI-Is thoroughly lambasted by a sim instructor ) .

Online , the most challenging thing I see new first officers struggling with is flying a visual approach /pattern and the IFR knowledge that can be applied to that . Many try to force automation when is not necessary or even reasonable , and get themselves into a pretty greasy spot without some coaching or even intervention.

To sum it up, things that make it go a lot smoother
1. IFR Knowledge has to be solid
2. Reasonable hand Flying skills without any help (raw data) Flight sim is a great tool
3. have some basic undertanding of high altitude aero dynamics and take off landing performance associated with Jets.
4. Get ready to think FAST ,lots of procedures, flows, checklist will always be occurring in the background while your flying the plane..get used to that idea

Good on you for having the right attitude/direction here :)
 
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True, but the interview usually involves flying some kind of steam gauge PC-ATD sim for an evaluation, doesn't it?
Like Taters said, they really are looking to see that you have a good grasp of instrument procedures. I've been browsing a lot of different 121/135 interview gouge and it is a common theme. Can you read a Jepp Enroute chart? Can you identify the key info on the approach plate? Can you fly a hold and approach? Do you come across as a royal A-hole that no Captain is going to want to be paired with on a 4 day trip?

The reason I suggested the beat-up ATD is that a recurring theme from many interview gouges is that the sim they put them in was pretty jerky and not smooth like the real thing which seems to throw some folks off.
 
When you can do surgery on a mouse under a microscope implanting embryos that are dwarfed by the head of a pin into the orifice of a largely transparent organ that itself is the size of said pin head using both hands to hold everything in place and a mouth pipette to move the embryos and keeping everything absolutely sterile, then we can talk.

To paraphrase Game of Thrones: you know nothing.

By the way, what I described is a long way from the hardest thing I've done in science. Just the easiest to describe. And I don't think I'm that great or have the hardest job by a long shot.

I see.......and could you have lost your life or seriously injured yourself or innocent bystanders had you made an error ? If you had made a minor would you have lost your job and or the ability to ever work in that field again ? Would a branch of the federal government levied fines or penalties against you ? Would your name and life history appear in every major newspaper and media outlet had you made an error in this hypercritical endevour you describe ?
 
I did. :dunno: They then provided training and ATP checkride.
Yup. I believe the new standard is "qualified for restricted ATP". It used to be much lower I believe before the Feds stepped in post Colgan.
 
Yup. I believe the new standard is "qualified for restricted ATP". It used to be much lower I believe before the Feds stepped in post Colgan.

Only for a few years was it down low (as low as a wet commercial). Prior to the mid-2000's, it was significantly higher than the legislated minimums now.
 
Yup. I believe the new standard is "qualified for restricted ATP". It used to be much lower I believe before the Feds stepped in post Colgan.

One of the biggest problems is the ATP-CTP course now. Very few training centers have been certified to give it and unless you took the written last year, it is a pre-req to taking the written.

So the regionals as long as you have the times or close enough, many regionals are getting the approval to give the course in-house.
 
Only for a few years was it down low (as low as a wet commercial). Prior to the mid-2000's, it was significantly higher than the legislated minimums now.

I flew for a commuter airline (not yet called regionals) from 1990-1994. Back then one didn't even apply unless you had 1,000 multi PIC.
 
One of the biggest problems is the ATP-CTP course now. Very few training centers have been certified to give it and unless you took the written last year, it is a pre-req to taking the written.

So the regionals as long as you have the times or close enough, many regionals are getting the approval to give the course in-house.

I have heard that, although I'm not well versed in the new rules. Think I got my ATP in the 90's. :D
 
I flew for a commuter airline (not yet called regionals) from 1990-1994. Back then one didn't even apply unless you had 1,000 multi PIC.


Where would you get this 1000 multi PIC? Not a ton of flying time for MEIs out there (some, but I'd imagine not a ton)...
 
More and more are washing out these days, as they scrape the bottom of the barrel for talent.

It's those damn 0-Hero schools pumping out some of the worst pilots I've ever seen. One kid washed out because he couldn't read a raw METAR, among his other shortcomings (as I was told from a good friend in the same class).

Other than personally flying with some 1,200 hour 172 pilot, I have no personal experience beyond what I hear through others going through the regional hiring program.
 
Where would you get this 1000 multi PIC? Not a ton of flying time for MEIs out there (some, but I'd imagine not a ton)...

I flew bank checks in a C310. I'm guessing that line of work is obsolete today.
 
Where would you get this 1000 multi PIC? Not a ton of flying time for MEIs out there (some, but I'd imagine not a ton)...

Back then (late 80s into early 90s) you still had a lot of guys leaving the military with lots of turbine time and going into 121.
 
It's those damn 0-Hero schools pumping out some of the worst pilots I've ever seen. One kid washed out because he couldn't read a raw METAR, among his other shortcomings (as I was told from a good friend in the same class).

Other than personally flying with some 1,200 hour 172 pilot, I have no personal experience beyond what I hear through others going through the regional hiring program.

I don't think it's all to blame on the zero to hero type schools. I know guys who did that and turned out fine. I think it has to do with the individual. There were lots of guys I knew at ERAU that were pilots simply because "it's cool". They're the types that are struggling.

I flew bank checks in a C310. I'm guessing that line of work is obsolete today.

Bank flying is gone. The smart check carriers diversified into small package flying (UPS, FedEx, DHL). Those that didn't, died.
 
I would also add that regional check-airman need to step up their game...
 
More and more are washing out these days, as they scrape the bottom of the barrel for talent.

We lost about 10% in ground school and another 10% in sims and after. Despite 37 years of GA experience it's been a pretty challenging endeavor for me. I've loved every minute, but it hasn't been easy by any stretch.
 
We lost about 10% in ground school and another 10% in sims and after. Despite 37 years of GA experience it's been a pretty challenging endeavor for me. I've loved every minute, but it hasn't been easy by any stretch.

Exactly. Some people here think if you have CPL/IR/ME, you can do what we do. That's incorrect. It's a tough road as you know.
 
Not all 50 seat jets will go away, Delta plans to keep 125 or so of them, last I heard. But yes, quite a few will end up parked.

The CRJ fleet is starting to time out. The 200 I flew yesterday showed just over 40,000 hours on the airframe. If I recall correctly, it had 13,600 cycles and my CA commented that they are usually retired at 14,000 since the maintenance to go beyond 14,000 is cost-prohibitive.

But they sure are fun to fly!
 
Exactly. Some people here think if you have CPL/IR/ME, you can do what we do. That's incorrect. It's a tough road as you know.

The challenges are:

- Complex systems you've never seen in a GA aircraft that you need to know inside and out....turbines, pressurization, flight management systems, flight manifests, weight-specific performance limitations, etc.
- A machine that cruises 3-4 times faster than the average machine you've been flying at altitudes 4-5 times higher than you're used to flying...meaning much more involved descent planning.
- Flying SIDs and STARs at those speeds and altitudes while trying not to spill anyone's drinks.
- Going into and departing from the biggest, busiest and most complex airports in the world with four ramp control frequencies, four ground control frequencies, three tower frequencies and two or more departure frequencies all dependent on where you're parked and where you're going. Plus the company frequencies for logistics things.
- Adhering to very rigid checklist and crew coordination standards while doing all of the above.
- Understanding and complying with maintenance records, MELs, etc. before each and every flight.

It's pretty overwhelming at the outset. I'm sure it'll seem routine and easy six months from now, but the first month or so you're paddling as fast as you can and still ending up several miles behind the airplane!

But that first year FO paycheck makes it all worthwhile! :goofy:
 
Your on the right track , IFR TERPS knowledge is what seems to be most lacking these days from the "green" new hires , that along with a very lagging ability to revert from full automation to no automation. Sim time is very expensive so it's not really designed for remedial training on basic IFR stuff (have seen several CFI-Is thoroughly lambasted by a sim instructor ) .

Online , the most challenging thing I see new first officers struggling with is flying a visual approach /pattern and the IFR knowledge that can be applied to that . Many try to force automation when is not necessary or even reasonable , and get themselves into a pretty greasy spot without some coaching or even intervention.

To sum it up, things that make it go a lot smoother
1. IFR Knowledge has to be solid
2. Reasonable hand Flying skills without any help (raw data) Flight sim is a great tool
3. have some basic undertanding of high altitude aero dynamics and take off landing performance associated with Jets.
4. Get ready to think FAST ,lots of procedures, flows, checklist will always be occurring in the background while your flying the plane..get used to that idea

Good on you for having the right attitude/direction here :)

Wait a minute....we're you flying with me on IOE??!! :yikes: :wink2::wink2:

In the defense of us new hires, in sims they hammered us on backing up visuals with the automation and the straight visuals in the sim were definitely more challenging than the instrument approaches so it tended to lead you to overuse the automation even on visuals. Flying the real airplane I'm finally abandoning the automation and flying it more like a very fast, very heavy Mooney and it's definitely helping the visuals.
 
The challenges are:

- Complex systems you've never seen in a GA aircraft that you need to know inside and out....turbines, pressurization, flight management systems, flight manifests, weight-specific performance limitations, etc.
- A machine that cruises 3-4 times faster than the average machine you've been flying at altitudes 4-5 times higher than you're used to flying...meaning much more involved descent planning.
- Flying SIDs and STARs at those speeds and altitudes while trying not to spill anyone's drinks.
- Going into and departing from the biggest, busiest and most complex airports in the world with four ramp control frequencies, four ground control frequencies, three tower frequencies and two or more departure frequencies all dependent on where you're parked and where you're going. Plus the company frequencies for logistics things.
- Adhering to very rigid checklist and crew coordination standards while doing all of the above.
- Understanding and complying with maintenance records, MELs, etc. before each and every flight.

It's pretty overwhelming at the outset. I'm sure it'll seem routine and easy six months from now, but the first month or so you're paddling as fast as you can and still ending up several miles behind the airplane!

But that first year FO paycheck makes it all worthwhile! :goofy:
But how would you compare it to law school and passing the bar? I've always thought that flying is different than many other professions in that it doesn't require too much of an academic background. The skills and knowledge necessary are different than being a scientist, engineer or lawyer. Your education is of a much more practical than theoretical/academic nature.
 
It's those damn 0-Hero schools pumping out some of the worst pilots I've ever seen. One kid washed out because he couldn't read a raw METAR, among his other shortcomings (as I was told from a good friend in the same class).

Other than personally flying with some 1,200 hour 172 pilot, I have no personal experience beyond what I hear through others going through the regional hiring program.

Two of my classmates where zero-to-hero grads....both were actually very good pilots and did well in ground school and in the sims. Seems like they're both doing great on the line now, and neither had been in an airplane less than three years ago. So it can work for the right person.
 
The CRJ fleet is starting to time out. The 200 I flew yesterday showed just over 40,000 hours on the airframe. If I recall correctly, it had 13,600 cycles and my CA commented that they are usually retired at 14,000 since the maintenance to go beyond 14,000 is cost-prohibitive.

But they sure are fun to fly!

40,000 hours? Wow, that's sad. Most of our DC-9's are north of 70,000 hours (with nearly as many cycles), and they keep on ticking.
 
But how would you compare it to law school and passing the bar? I've always thought that flying is different than many other professions in that it doesn't require too much of an academic background. The skills and knowledge necessary are different than being a scientist, engineer or lawyer. Your education is of a much more practical than theoretical/academic nature.

My regional ground school was the most challenging course of study I've done since law school and the bar review. The difference probably lies in the amount of rote information that needs to be committed to memory while learning complex aircraft systems vs. the assimilation of historically legal concepts along with the analytical skills that need to be developed in a legal education. And law school was three years plus two months of bar review vs. three months of intense regional training.

That said, the view from this office beats any of my previous offices! :yes:
 
40,000 hours? Wow, that's sad. Most of our DC-9's are north of 70,000 hours (with nearly as many cycles), and they keep on ticking.

Wow. On the other hand, the CRJ was designed as a corporate jet logging a few hundred hours a year, which was then stretched and pushed to 2,000 hours a year! I think it's amazing they've done as well as they have.
 
Wow. On the other hand, the CRJ was designed as a corporate jet logging a few hundred hours a year, which was then stretched and pushed to 2,000 hours a year! I think it's amazing they've done as well as they have.
I always thought it was strange that walking into a corporate Challenger was a little bit like walking into your living room unlike the airline seating of CRJs. :eek:
 
I always thought it was strange that walking into a corporate Challenger was a little bit like walking into your living room unlike the airline seating of CRJs. :eek:

I haven't been in one, but I bet they feel pretty spacious.
 
I haven't been in one, but I bet they feel pretty spacious.
What's the link between a Chalkenger and CRJ??
The cockpit on a CRJ is abut tight for a jump seater. Put your legs on the bar or you're doomed. Move the damn manuals. You won't make it.
 
My regional ground school was the most challenging course of study I've done since law school and the bar review. The difference probably lies in the amount of rote information that needs to be committed to memory while learning complex aircraft systems vs. the assimilation of historically legal concepts along with the analytical skills that need to be developed in a legal education. And law school was three years plus two months of bar review vs. three months of intense regional training.



That said, the view from this office beats any of my previous offices! :yes:


So, I take it this is a "second career" or "retirement job" for you then? Clearly you're not doing it for the money if you are a lawyer.... ;)

I'm curious if that was an issue that came up in the interview. Something like "why would you want to work for us" and "will you still be here after a year of flying reserve out of nowhereville at 4am" if you really don't _need_ the job.

Just asking because I sometimes consider getting a flying job once I have saved enough to no longer "need" to work.
 
My regional ground school was the most challenging course of study I've done since law school and the bar review. The difference probably lies in the amount of rote information that needs to be committed to memory while learning complex aircraft systems vs. the assimilation of historically legal concepts along with the analytical skills that need to be developed in a legal education. And law school was three years plus two months of bar review vs. three months of intense regional training.
So given that we are the same age, it would be a much more unrealistic for me to say I want to give it up and go to law school at this point (or to be a geneticist, engineer, doctor, etc.) than to go the other way as you did. :D
 
BTW James, Dubai is not a bad place to live. Abu Dhabi is even better.

Other than May to November. Man, I hated Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Glad there are people that want to live there - it's all you man!





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Do we not expect regional guys to ***** and moan about the pay?
1) The pay sucks
2) McDonalds workers complain enough and get $15/hour - why wouldn't regional guys complain. Instead of saying "yeah, McDonalds is an entry-level job for the unskilled person. If you want to make more money, learn a trade." The government swoops in and raises the minimum wage to a ridiculous amount.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
What's the link between a Chalkenger and CRJ??
The cockpit on a CRJ is abut tight for a jump seater. Put your legs on the bar or you're doomed. Move the damn manuals. You won't make it.

The CRJs grew out of the Challenger. They just added a fuselage plug and lengthened the wing slightly, as I recall.
 
So, I take it this is a "second career" or "retirement job" for you then? Clearly you're not doing it for the money if you are a lawyer.... ;)

I'm curious if that was an issue that came up in the interview. Something like "why would you want to work for us" and "will you still be here after a year of flying reserve out of nowhereville at 4am" if you really don't _need_ the job.

Just asking because I sometimes consider getting a flying job once I have saved enough to no longer "need" to work.

Sort of...but not necessarily by intention. It just sort of came out of the blue and I decided to give it a shot. In the interview they never questioned the financial side of things. They did ask how I'd feel about flying with a Captain much younger than me! There's a thread here in hangar talk that tracks my regional adventure. Look for "when dreams come true".
 
So given that we are the same age, it would be a much more unrealistic for me to say I want to give it up and go to law school at this point (or to be a geneticist, engineer, doctor, etc.) than to go the other way as you did. :D

Hey, if you got the itch, law school was a great experience. I had several older students in my law school class who had always considered it and decided to go for it.
 
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