regional airline pay

NJP_MAN

NJP_MAN

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It rustles my jimmies when people complain about regional airline pay. I'm a believer in if you don't like the pay then go do something else. I'm not at a regional and I can clear over 3x the pay with less than an ATP. Why do pilots sign up for a job then complain about the low wages ? I agree pilots at the regional level should get paid more, for the same reason I refuse to work there. /rant.
 
Most of them don't... that's why the regionals are hurting for pilots. Do you really think it's fair for people to spend $100k+ to make the same amount as someone who works at McDonalds?
 
ktup-flyer said:
Most of them don't... that's why the regionals are hurting for pilots. Do you really think it's fair for people to spend $100k+ to make the same amount as someone who works at McDonalds?
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If someone forced 'em to, it would be egregiously unfair. Last I looked, there was a whole raft of volunteers without a single victim.
 
Problem is the low pay will force the good ones out of the game. Why should anyone with any intelligence spend north of a mortgage on flight training to take such a job? They won't, and the ones filling those seats will not have any intelligence. Like the fellow who stalled his aircraft over Buffalo. Or the pair that took off on the wrong runway. You can expect to see more of these shenanigans.

The pilot life has a lot of disadvantages. Used to be high pay and societal respect could get past all that, and the jobs were still lucrative. The societal part is certainly gone, and if the pay isn't there why would anyone do it?
 
steingar said:
Problem is the low pay will force the good ones out of the game. Why should anyone with any intelligence spend north of a mortgage on flight training to take such a job? They won't, and the ones filling those seats will not have any intelligence. Like the fellow who stalled his aircraft over Buffalo. Or the pair that took off on the wrong runway. You can expect to see more of these shenanigans.

The pilot life has a lot of disadvantages. Used to be high pay and societal respect could get past all that, and the jobs were still lucrative. The societal part is certainly gone, and if the pay isn't there why would anyone do it?
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The pay has certainly come back in a big way for the majors.
 
The airlines figure,you do your time at the bottom,and sooner or later you should move up to the biggies. Not that I agree . Like all professions it's never fun at the bottom.
 
I think we can all agree that the pay flying for a regional is too low for the investment required to get there, the skill required and the responsibility one assumes. To me there is zero doubt about that premise. However I also agree that if you take the job knowing all of that, you just need to shut up and do the job or go elsewhere. It really is that simple. As long as the airlines can fill the seats paying low dollar, they will do so.
 
Well that's a little off.

If you spent 100k for a CPL you blew it, more like 40-50k I did it for just shy of 50 and not only ended up with my CPL I also had my own plane once all way said and done.

Not many burger flippers now days clear as much as a regional FO.

Regional do pay for crap, which is the reason I always scratch my head when kids want to work for one.
 
steingar said:
. Used to be high pay and societal respect could get past all that, and the jobs were still lucrative. The societal part is certainly gone, and if the pay isn't there why would anyone do it?
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Society aspect is still there in my experience and the pay is still there if you go down the right path.
 
James331 said:
Well that's a little off.

If you spent 100k for a CPL you blew it, more like 40-50k I did it for just shy of 50 and not only ended up with my CPL I also had my own plane once all way said and done.

Not many burger flippers now days clear as much as a regional FO.

Regional do pay for crap, which is the reason I always scratch my head when kids want to work for one.
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Good luck getting a regional gig with a CPL...
 
ktup-flyer said:
Good luck getting a regional gig with a CPL...
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Uhh, a regional isn't a job for someone right out of flight school, you build your hours up from a greenhorn CPL at your first and or second job till you hit ATP mins.

Most pilots don't pay a dime for hours, they actually get PAID for hours, after their CPL.. Well outside of personal flying.

So again training wise you're really only needing to pay to get your CPL, and if you're smart you can do a bit of time building in gliders, shotgun hours with friends, buy a plane, etc. If I were to have sold my plane right after my CPL I would have probably only been all in, after selling the plane, for like 20k or so.
 
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ktup-flyer said:
Good luck getting a regional gig with a CPL...
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Requirements aren't really very high now....

​ATP or Commercial Multi-Engine Land Pilot's License
Current First Class Medical
FCC Radio Operator's Permit​
Eligible to work in the US
Valid Passport​​
Meet ATP or R-ATP minimums for Total Time AND the following:
100 hours night
75 hours instrument
200 hours cross country​
25 hours multi-engine
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Get your commercial and it wouldn't take you more than about a year of ass busting to get what you'd need.
 
jesse said:
Requirements aren't really very high now....



Get your commercial and it wouldn't take you more than about a year of ass busting to get what you'd need.
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Did you miss the part about meeting ATP or R-ATP mins?

Most folks (even those willing to work hard) would be hard pressed to go from 250 hours to 1500 in 12 months.
 
jesse said:
Requirements aren't really very high now....



Get your commercial and it wouldn't take you more than about a year of ass busting to get what you'd need.
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I thought you needed an ATP now to work as airline flight crew?
 
frcabot said:
I thought you needed an ATP now to work as airline flight crew?
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Yes, but since the ATP-CTP course is now a pre-req for getting the ATP license, many of the regionals will hire a pilot that has the ATP (or R-ATP) mins and then they will provide the course/training and ATP ride before putting them on the line.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Did you miss the part about meeting ATP or R-ATP mins?

Most folks (even those willing to work hard) would be hard pressed to go from 250 hours to 1500 in 12 months.
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I can hit 600 hours a year while working another full-time job. Pretty sure I'd have no problems doubling that if I cared about building time and didn't have another incredibly demanding job.

Figure out a way to average 5 hours a day of flight time 5 days per week and you'd have it.
 
I suppose for guys like LD, it's not about money anyway. They've always dreamed of flying for the airlines. Even though it's never been a path that I've been interested in, I can understand where they're coming from.

If it were single pilot and I still made as much as my current gig, I'd go for it! :D
 
Too many people want to be police officers, firefighters, pilots, astronauts, bovine inseminators (well, maybe just me). The pay for those jobs will be inversely effected by how many people are standing in line outside of their buildings. It's only when one proves to be indispensable will the salary reflect it.

There is nothing wrong with any of these types of jobs, and financial success can be realized, it's just a longer row to hoe.
 
Subsea said:
Too many people want to be police officers, firefighters, pilots, astronauts, bovine inseminators (well, maybe just me). The pay for those jobs will be inversely effected by how many people are standing in line outside of their buildings. It's only when one proves to be indispensable will the salary reflect it.

There is nothing wrong with any of these types of jobs, and financial success can be realized, it's just a longer row to hoe.
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Regional pay is bound to go up because they're hurting for pilots. It's basic supply / demand.
 
Or they will lower the hiring criteria....like they have already done.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Its just troublesome when people are in such a rush to get to a place that's known to be poor QOL and pay yet they complain when they arrive .
 
frcabot said:
Regional pay is bound to go up because they're hurting for pilots. It's basic supply / demand.
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Hopefully, but not necessarily. The airlines will probably cut routes/flights first. Then they may raise fares to see what the public is really willing to pay.

They aren't going to raise pay before they raise fares and the public doesn't want to pay more.
 
Subsea said:
Or they will lower the hiring criteria....like they have already done.
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How have they already done it?

No one has really lowered the criteria with the possible exception of the shenanigans that Great Lakes has started. You still have to meet the ATP requirements to fly as an FO in 121.
 
ktup-flyer said:
Most of them don't... that's why the regionals are hurting for pilots. Do you really think it's fair for people to spend $100k+ to make the same amount as someone who works at McDonalds?
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Works in politics, people spend 10's of millions to get a senate job that pays less than $200K per year! :mad2: Of course they are spending other peoples money! ;)
 
steingar said:
Why should anyone with any intelligence spend north of a mortgage on flight training to take such a job?
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I think the same thing about someone wanting to become a college professor. :rolleyes:


steingar said:
The pilot life has a lot of disadvantages. Used to be high pay and societal respect could get past all that, and the jobs were still lucrative. The societal part is certainly gone, and if the pay isn't there why would anyone do it?
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So who did you fly for? I mean, making a statement like that you must have been in the industry, right?

I've had a very lucrative career flying in the airlines, as well as many I know. As far as "societal respect", people in my profession certainly are more respected than your typical ultra liberal PhD spouting his inane diatribes to his students while masquerading that as "teaching".
 
Fearless Tower said:
How have they already done it?

No one has really lowered the criteria with the possible exception of the shenanigans that Great Lakes has started. You still have to meet the ATP requirements to fly as an FO in 121.
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There is at least one example. I didn't mean to imply that all are doing it. Gotta stop replying off the cuff on the ipad.:nono:
 
dans2992 said:
What is Great Lakes doing?
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They took B1900s and pulled seats out and are operating them under 135 so they can hire non-ATPs to keep the right seat warm.

Those guys are basically getting hired well below the ATP mins and are required to sign a contract that they will work for GLA for at least a year. I think they get paid something like a flat $7k for the first 6 months. That is a total of $7k for 6 months, not per month.

I guess it shouldn't be too supposing as GLA has pretty much been the bottom of the regional pay scale for years.
 
Fearless Tower said:
They took B1900s and pulled seats out and are operating them under 135 so they can hire non-ATPs to keep the right seat warm.

Those guys are basically getting hired well below the ATP mins and are required to sign a contract that they will work for GLA for at least a year. I think they get paid something like a flat $7k for the first 6 months. That is a total of $7k for 6 months, not per month.

I guess it shouldn't be too supposing as GLA has pretty much been the bottom of the regional pay scale for years.
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Wow. How many seats do you have to pull out?

Is this going to be as bad on a resume as "pay for training" if people do it?

I wonder what the penalty is if you don't work a year...?
 
Also, if they're 135, couldn't they just slap an autopilot in there and fly it single pilot? Or are they afraid of he public backlash there...?
 
dans2992 said:
Wow. How many seats do you have to pull out?

Is this going to be as bad on a resume as "pay for training" if people do it?

I wonder what the penalty is if you don't work a year...?
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On JetCareers there was a thread about Lakes. There was mention of about who got hired at 20 years old and is now an FO for American at 23? (Or around that age). The pay sucks but I think you'll become a pretty good pilot flying the 1900s around and if you bust your butt. I see the regionals as a way to get to a major which will probably be my goal. Nowadays, correct me if I'm wrong major airlines are hiring mostly military and regional pilots. So if people can get past the first year pay and look towards the future the regionals are a good path to the airlines. A lot of people look at the first year and pay and immediately dismiss it. But if your end goal is flying for a major, you might have to bite the bullet and suck it up
 
frcabot said:
The pay has certainly come back in a big way for the majors.
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From what I have seen, it seems to be.

Fearless Tower said:
Has it? You must be one of those Delta guys who thinks your lead negotiator did you a favor...
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From the recent payscale sheets my father showed me (AAL), the left seat guys in the biggest jet bring in over 300K annually, assuming they fly all 1,000 hours.
 
dans2992 said:
Also, if they're 135, couldn't they just slap an autopilot in there and fly it single pilot? Or are they afraid of he public backlash there...?
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No auto pilots or GPS. Its cheaper to have a co pilot.

This thread isn't about how airlines are lowering the bar. Its about how pilots go work there then complain about pay. I dont get it. You know going into this that if you go to the regional airline then you're in for low pay and suck QOL. Plain and simple.
 
Fearless Tower said:
They took B1900s and pulled seats out and are operating them under 135 so they can hire non-ATPs to keep the right seat warm.

Those guys are basically getting hired well below the ATP mins and are required to sign a contract that they will work for GLA for at least a year. I think they get paid something like a flat $7k for the first 6 months. That is a total of $7k for 6 months, not per month.

I guess it shouldn't be too supposing as GLA has pretty much been the bottom of the regional pay scale for years.
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$21.22/hr @ 75 hours a month works out to over 9K for 6 months. Still not respectable, but for some people, must be worth doing it.

dans2992 said:
Wow. How many seats do you have to pull out?

Is this going to be as bad on a resume as "pay for training" if people do it?

I wonder what the penalty is if you don't work a year...?
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9 seats is the max for 135, so they are taking out 10. At least the FAA made them take the seats out and not just placard them.

RotorAndWing said:
Autopilot in Lieu of SIC only applies to Part 135 9 or Less passengers.
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Which is what they are doing, 9 seats in the 1900. Cheaper for the FO than the autopilot install.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
$21.22/hr @ 75 hours a month works out to over 9K for 6 months. Still not respectable, but for some people, must be worth doing it.
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So, about $16k per year before tax. Pretty crappy when you can make over $30k with USA Jet with the same time.

The $7k for the first 6 months at GLA came from a recent hire (interview gouge).
 
frcabot said:
Regional pay is bound to go up because they're hurting for pilots. It's basic supply / demand.
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That works in most industries, but airlines are somewhat different, and one reason why I say "Never choose for a career something that people do for a hobby."

There will always be some newbie with Shiny Jet Syndrome willing to work for damned near nothing, because he gets to fly a Shiny Jet.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
From the recent payscale sheets my father showed me (AAL), the left seat guys in the biggest jet bring in over 300K annually, assuming they fly all 1,000 hours.
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You don't need to fly 1000 hours - just credit it. For example I was paid for 92 hours last month, of which I logged 71.9. That's not even particularly efficient. Lots of guys dump their whole month and sit around picking up premium pay, which makes for pretty impressive ratios of pay vs. actual time flown.
 
No...it's not fair, but it's safe to say that everyone knows before they ink the paper on the loan that the commuter pilots' pay sucks. However, if it wasn't for the folks willing to take that financial, then the airlines would have to actually recruit and pay for the training of pilots...and they really don't want to do that. Fortunately, where I am right now, there are lots of F-16s burning holes in the sky playing fighter pilot and building hours on the government's dime waiting for their airline job.
 
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