regional airline pay

EvilEagle said:
Do we not expect regional guys to ***** and moan about the pay?
1) The pay sucks
2) McDonalds workers complain enough and get $15/hour - why wouldn't regional guys complain. Instead of saying "yeah, McDonalds is an entry-level job for the unskilled person. If you want to make more money, learn a trade." The government swoops in and raises the minimum wage to a ridiculous amount.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease!


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I'n less than 21 months I was making 70 K with a Good line (>15 days off)
 
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taters said:
I'n less than 21 months I was making 70 K with a Good line (>15 days off)
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Do you think it's reasonable to suggest 21 months to the left seat of a CRJ is a median outcome? I'm not poo pooing your favorable timing, but suggesting it as an expectation from which to base the training and time opportunity costs associated with regional work, is intellectually dishonest. Tokenism is not a particularly persuasive strategy, though I concede that for the dreamers, it's like crack.
 
taters said:
I'n less than 21 months I was making 70 K with a Good line (>15 days off)
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That's awesome! I never did the regionals, but a lot of the guys I fly with at Delta did. Your story is not typical from what I've heard. How tough were those 21 months? Was your airline growing faster than others? Did you luck into a good hiring time? (Like I did at Delta- if so, nice work!)


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EvilEagle said:
That's awesome! I never did the regionals, but a lot of the guys I fly with at Delta did. Your story is not typical from what I've heard. How tough were those 21 months? Was your airline growing faster than others? Did you luck into a good hiring time? (Like I did at Delta- if so, nice work!)


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Probably by voting in a contract that nobody else would take, is how they were growing so fast... :stirpot:
 
EvilEagle said:
That's awesome! I never did the regionals, but a lot of the guys I fly with at Delta did. Your story is not typical from what I've heard. How tough were those 21 months? Was your airline growing faster than others? Did you luck into a good hiring time? (Like I did at Delta- if so, nice work!)


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Actually the upgrade part isn't so untypical for those that enter with/or close to the time requirements before entry , what IS untypical is that I never sat reserve unless I choose to , that indeed was fortunate timing in 2011.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Do you think it's reasonable to suggest 21 months to the left seat of a CRJ is a median outcome? I'm not poo pooing your favorable timing, but suggesting it as an expectation from which to base the training and time opportunity costs associated with regional work, is intellectually dishonest. Tokenism is not a particularly persuasive strategy, though I concede that for the dreamers, it's like crack.
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Endeavor gives an $80,0000 I'll say it again 80,0000 hiring bonus just for playing , it's is paid out over 3 years so no I'm not off base .... The bonuses everywhere are going up rapidly and with DAL having the E-190 in a TA the first drop of blood is already in the water for managements wet dream of having a B scale airline conduct nearly half of departures .
 
taters said:
Endeavor gives an $80,0000 I'll say it again 80,0000 hiring bonus just for playing , it's is paid out over 3 years so no I'm not off base .... The bonuses everywhere are going up rapidly and with DAL having the E-190 in a TA the first drop of blood is already in the water for managements wet dream of having a B scale airline conduct nearly half of departures .
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Isn't year 1 about over and now closer to 60k? Not that 60 is anything to sneeze at...

I still would not count on bonuses and other gimmicks. For example, remember "Endevour to Delta"?

I am guessing a captain at a regional does fairly well. That said, I jump seat on Skywest, Republic, and Envoy constantly. I have yet to hear of 21 month upgrades at those places.
On the other hand, a good friend of mine got a Capt bid while in initial class at PSA, so it's more than possible.
 
Kritchlow said:
Isn't year 1 about over and now closer to 60k? Not that 60 is anything to sneeze at...

I still would not count on bonuses and other gimmicks. For example, remember "Endevour to Delta"?

I am guessing a captain at a regional does fairly well. That said, I jump seat on Skywest, Republic, and Envoy constantly. I have yet to hear of 21 month upgrades at those places.
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It really is coming down rapidly but you must do serious research and how much time you already have can be a massive factor .. Allowing you to upgrade out of seniority ( sorry but you'll pay later when all of those guys hit their time ) .
PSA I think just started taking street captains again and TSA was hiring CQFOs , quick upgrades are out there but again research the "fine print ."
 
Timing is everything and this happens to be a good time to get hired by the airlines.
 
EvilEagle said:
McDonalds workers complain enough and get $15/hour - why wouldn't regional guys complain. Instead of saying "yeah, McDonalds is an entry-level job for the unskilled person. If you want to make more money, learn a trade." The government swoops in and raises the minimum wage to a ridiculous amount.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease!


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I don't know anyone at McDonald's who earns $15/hr, and even if they did your argument is totally invalid because federal minimum wage is $7.25 so the minimum wage wouldn't affect them at all.

That's $14,000 a year. Pre tax. With no benefits. Yeah, really a "ridiculous amount," but not in the way you're suggesting.
 
Everskyward said:
Timing is everything and this happens to be a good time to get hired by the airlines.
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This happens to be a potentially good time to be hired. :wink2:
 
Fearless Tower said:
So, about $16k per year before tax. Pretty crappy when you can make over $30k with USA Jet with the same time.

The $7k for the first 6 months at GLA came from a recent hire (interview gouge).
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But remember that the 3 month training time is unpaid, except the hotel. Not even food reimbursement. So your first 12 months ends up 25% less than that.


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KyleT said:
But remember that the 3 month training time is unpaid, except the hotel. Not even food reimbursement. So your first 12 months ends up 25% less than that.


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So it's even worse.

Personally, if you don't want to flight instruct, I'd say USA Jet is a much better deal than GLA.
 
Never heard of USA Jet until this thread. Just googled them. Seems like a small older fleet.

What experience level do they hire at? Is there maintenance up to par? Upgrade time? Schedule? QOL?
 
Kritchlow said:
Never heard of USA Jet until this thread. Just googled them. Seems like a small older fleet.

What experience level do they hire at? Is there maintenance up to par? Upgrade time? Schedule? QOL?
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For which airplane?
 
Kritchlow said:
Ahh.... Okay. I didn't realize it varied. Makes sense though, as I believe I saw a Falcon on the list as well as 727's.
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KS works there,( I believe on the DC-9s), so he'll have more specifics.


From talking to their HR guy, they are hiring Falcon FOs (under 135) at 800TT. ATP mins for the DC-9s. FO pay for the Falcon is on par if not a little higher than the majority of first year regionals and benefits on par as well. Full training provided by the company. No PFT.

It's a stepping stone: most guys seem to put in their time and move on, but seem to have positive things to say about the company.

Downsides: you work your tail off- FOs load the planes.....and that includes in the middle of winter in Willow Run. You have to stay within 30 min of YIP while on duty and its supplemental, so you might fly a ton one duty week and sit around waiting for a call the next. If I was a single guy with no family attachments, I'd do it.
 
Fearless Tower said:
KS works there,( I believe on the DC-9s), so he'll have more specifics.


From talking to their HR guy, they are hiring Falcon FOs (under 135) at 800TT. ATP mins for the DC-9s. FO pay for the Falcon is on par if not a little higher than the majority of first year regionals and benefits on par as well. Full training provided by the company. No PFT.

It's a stepping stone: most guys seem to put in their time and move on, but seem to have positive things to say about the company.

Downsides: you work your tail off- FOs load the planes.....and that includes in the middle of winter in Willow Run. You have to stay within 30 min of YIP while on duty and its supplemental, so you might fly a ton one duty week and sit around waiting for a call the next. If I was a single guy with no family attachments, I'd do it.
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Thanks for the info. Sounds like a tough gig.
 
Kritchlow said:
Thanks for the info. Sounds like a tough gig.
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I don't think you'll find too many stereotypical millennials working there, but again, most of the pilot review I have seen speak highly of the place and are thankful for the experience. A lot more than some of the regional reviews.
 
Fearless Tower said:
KS works there,( I believe on the DC-9s), so he'll have more specifics.


From talking to their HR guy, they are hiring Falcon FOs (under 135) at 800TT. ATP mins for the DC-9s. FO pay for the Falcon is on par if not a little higher than the majority of first year regionals and benefits on par as well. Full training provided by the company. No PFT.

It's a stepping stone: most guys seem to put in their time and move on, but seem to have positive things to say about the company.

Downsides: you work your tail off- FOs load the planes.....and that includes in the middle of winter in Willow Run. You have to stay within 30 min of YIP while on duty and its supplemental, so you might fly a ton one duty week and sit around waiting for a call the next. If I was a single guy with no family attachments, I'd do it.
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FO's don't always load the plane, depends on where you go. Captain helps load too if necessary. Most of the "major" places that you go to, have people who load. 24/7 on call, be there in 30 minutes is the rough part. Pay varies per airframe, minimum days off varies between 121/135. Lots of movement going on (where isn't this the case right now). 4 different airframes now in the fleet helped that along
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
FO's don't always load the plane, depends on where you go. Captain helps load too if necessary. Most of the "major" places that you go to, have people who load. 24/7 on call, be there in 30 minutes is the rough part.
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I imagine the interview gouge was trying to prepare people for the worst. Still not an unreasonable place to work.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
FO's don't always load the plane, depends on where you go. Captain helps load too if necessary. Most of the "major" places that you go to, have people who load. 24/7 on call, be there in 30 minutes is the rough part. Pay varies per airframe, minimum days off varies between 121/135. Lots of movement going on (where isn't this the case right now). 4 different airframes now in the fleet helped that along
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Thanks...
It sounds like a lot of good experience. But... How is the 24/7 on call thing legal?
 
Everskyward said:
True but potentially better than it has been in about 15 years. You never know about the future though.
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Yeah, it was a tongue and cheek comment. My good buddy was a '99 hire. He was told it was the last job he'd ever have, he'd be a millionaire, and so on. I'm being told the same crap. People have really short memories. I hope I have a good career, but I'll let you know how it played out once I retire. ;)
 
KyleT said:
But remember that the 3 month training time is unpaid, except the hotel. Not even food reimbursement. So your first 12 months ends up 25% less than that.
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Really! SKW paid hotel (suite with kitchenette) and provided training pay from Day One.
 
DavidWhite said:
There's no way......
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yep, legal. On call and you don't go on duty until the phone rings. Then off duty when leaving the building to drive home. 10 hour rest and ready to go again. Did that in air ambulance. Just keep the look back added up to be sure if another trip can be done in the time left.

I know, doesn't sound right. I usually figure if I can't drink, then I am on duty but nope.
 
Zeldman said:
yep, legal. On call and you don't go on duty until the phone rings. Then off duty when leaving the building to drive home. 10 hour rest and ready to go again. Did that in air ambulance. Just keep the look back added up to be sure if another trip can be done in the time left.

I know, doesn't sound right. I usually figure if I can't drink, then I am on duty but nope.
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No... If you have to answer your phone you are on duty. This one I'm sure of.
 
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I don't have a dog in this fight - just a comment
I gave up 8 years of my life at the university and a quarter million dollars in debt (1975 dollars) to be 'allowed' to work as a resident physician for $18,000 a year.
I doubt that regionals are the only sweat shops in town.
edit: and you are required to answer the phone 24/7/365
 
EvilEagle said:
Do we not expect regional guys to ***** and moan about the pay?
1) The pay sucks
2) McDonalds workers complain enough and get $15/hour - why wouldn't regional guys complain. Instead of saying "yeah, McDonalds is an entry-level job for the unskilled person. If you want to make more money, learn a trade." The government swoops in and raises the minimum wage to a ridiculous amount.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease!


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Not really the true effect, Ben; when the minimum wage is raised above the economic value of the work, the jobs go away. And, they are going away.

I am confident that many people who were making somewhere between the old minimum wage and the new one are very happy that, now, the job they no longer have would pay them more money, if they had the job, which they don't.

And remember, too: there's a lot more inherent upside in the career for a regional airliner pilot than there is for a low-skill job. That, in itself, is compensation, just deferred.
 
SCCutler said:
And remember, too: there's a lot more inherent upside in the career for a regional airliner pilot than there is for a low-skill job. That, in itself, is compensation, just deferred.
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I'll pay you twice tomorrow for a hamburger today!
 
Dr. O said:
I gave up 8 years of my life at the university and a quarter million dollars in debt (1975 dollars) to be 'allowed' to work as a resident physician for $18,000 a year.
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And you had to work about 80 hours a week too.
 
Kritchlow said:
No... If you have to answer your phone you are on duty. This one I'm sure of.
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Just because there are interpretations, doesn't mean that the FSDO chooses to follow them. :mad2::mad2: Unfortunately, most of the on demand companies are in the same boat, in regards to 24/7 on call
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Just because there are interpretations, doesn't mean that the FSDO chooses to follow them. :mad2::mad2: Unfortunately, most of the on demand companies are in the same boat, in regards to 24/7 on call
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You could say that about any regulation with a formal interpretation, but that doesn't make it right. If the FSDO isn't following them, they should be. Not sure what else to say. Having to answer you phone is not free from duty.
 
Kritchlow said:
You could say that about any regulation with a formal interpretation, but that doesn't make it right. If the FSDO isn't following them, they should be. Not sure what else to say. Having to answer you phone is not free from duty.
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Some battles aren't worth the fight, the easiest way around it is to not work in the on-demand freight business.
 
Dr. O said:
I don't have a dog in this fight - just a comment
I gave up 8 years of my life at the university and a quarter million dollars in debt (1975 dollars) to be 'allowed' to work as a resident physician for $18,000 a year.
I doubt that regionals are the only sweat shops in town.
edit: and you are required to answer the phone 24/7/365
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....and you went into that knowing....and did it anyways? :yikes::goofy::mad2:
 
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