Touch Screens Are Making [Vehicles] Worse. It’s Time to Bring Back Buttons and Knobs.

Ok, Grandpa.
If 2-bit-speed is "grandpa", then I'm Methuselah.

But seriously, I do get sad when people I respect get in such a ****ing match. We all have our preferences. I prefer Mary Ann, but if you prefer Ginger that is just less competition.
 
I have to say, the Tesla is so automated I worry about when I have to actually do something non-routine. It's an old joke by now, but, my kids setup the Tesla to fart when my wife leaves the car and she hasn't yet figured out how to turn it off. She runs from the car in grocery parking lots! There's value in that.
 
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I prefer Mary Ann, but if you prefer Ginger that is just less competition.
I agree with you about Marry Ann, though, she's far too old for me.

the Tesla is so automated I worry about when I have to actually do something non-routine.
A couple of things to try when you're stumped...

1. Use the built in search function. Tap the [CAR] in the lower-left to bring up the control screen. Use the Search button at the top to search for the feature you are trying to find/change.

2. Use voice commands to turn on/off, or to find, the feature you want to change. It will work for most of them.

3. Use your favorite AI search tool to ask for instructions.

I asked my favorite AI saerch tool, Perplexity.ai, and here are the results.

Turn off Emissions (Fart) Mode in the car
On the center screen, tap the App Launcher (the icon bar at the bottom), then tap Toybox and select Emissions Testing Mode.

If “Fart on demand” or “Fart on turn signal” is enabled, tap to toggle them off, or simply exit Emissions Mode altogether.

If you changed your horn or lock sound to a fart in Toybox, go back into that setting and pick a normal sound instead (for example, the standard lock “chirp”).
 
serious question for people who drive cars with all the fancy touchscreen gizmos......if you're trying to warn folks that there's a cop by flashing your high beams real quick, can u do that on the touchscreen?
I have a 2026 so I don't have a stalk. I had to ChatGPT this. Suffice to say, I'll never remember this when the time comes:

Flash headlights (no stalks)​

Press the LEFT scroll wheel inward (single press)
  • This gives a momentary high-beam flash
  • Release → lights turn back off
  • Works with headlights on Auto or Off
  • This is the stalk-less replacement for “flash-to-pass”
 
...2. Use voice commands to turn on/off, or to find, the feature you want to change. It will work for most of them....
Thanks again for the info!!

I've had mediocre luck with voice commands. It seems you have to use the exact words it expects.

W/in the hour 2025.44.25.5 installed. Apparently Grok is more tightly integrated (at least w/ navigation features). I'm hoping this helps.

EDIT: And to be clear, I figured out how to turn the fart noises off. I'm enjoying my wife's struggle with it!
 
Turn off Emissions (Fart) Mode in the car
On the center screen, tap the App Launcher (the icon bar at the bottom), then tap Toybox and select Emissions Testing Mode.

If “Fart on demand” or “Fart on turn signal” is enabled, tap to toggle them off, or simply exit Emissions Mode altogether.

If you changed your horn or lock sound to a fart in Toybox, go back into that setting and pick a normal sound instead (for example, the standard lock “chirp”).
I’m just concerned about the “courtesy wipe” setting. ;)
 
I have to say, the Tesla is so automated I worry about when I have to actually do something non-routine. It's an old joke by now, but, my kids setup the Tesla to fart when my wife leaves he car and she hasn't yet figured out how to turn it off. She runs from the car in grocery parking lots! There's value in that.

Whoa! Now I may have a reason to buy a Tesla!
 
Voice commands with Apple Car Play usually work pretty well in my wife's 2022 Volvo and my 2024 Ford Ranger. The native voice commands in the Volvo suck though. And its "environmental controls" are downright stupid. I think a lot of that is that the car is Swedish, and Swedes think in Swedish, no so much in English (especially my version of it).
In the case of the Volvo, I think it’s more likely that the designers think in Chinese.

Both my wife and I are ‘stuck’ in 95K mile 1999 (Miata) and 140K mile 2017 cars respectively, because we have no interest in the associated touch screens, tracking, design for obsolescence and the rest that comes with new cars. Both are manual shift. There’s no lack of cash to buy new cars, just a dislike of what they offer to the buyer.

I could tell you a hilarious story of driving 90 miles each way in a Volvo EV on the Autobahn in winter, from Munich to Austria to go skiing. Suffice to say we barely made it there despite having substantial excess range on the TFT at departure, barely got a time consuming, expensive charge and barely made it back. Then my my friend’s wife was angry at him for leaving the driver’s door ajar, monitored from home. No thanks.
 
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I have a 2026 so I don't have a stalk.
They have stalks again, now. I guess yours was built during the months when they didn't. The idea was that you'd rarely need to use the turn indicators as the car would be self-driving. The public quickly let them know that we wanted stalks so they put them back in. You can buy a stalk retrofit if you want it back.

You should have a headlight button around your left scroll wheel on the steering wheel. Pushing that flashes your brights and will pull up the lights pop-up menu on the screen to change other light settings.

Whoa! Now I may have a reason to buy a Tesla!
Elon has a unique sense of humor.
 
hmm, i honestly never really use the touchscreen on my new navigator, i always just grab the knob and twist. functions sim to the older avionics
when i do remember to use the touchscreen, i automatically stabilize my hands with the ridge built into the radio
 
I find car touch screens distracting, I find myself just about to run off the road when looking at the screen to change temps, or anything else,. mY New F 150 has touch screens and knobs and I use the knobs or the buttons on the steerinhg wheel I like the heads up display F 150 has.

I think this is mostly a cost issue. All those extra potentiometers and knobs will add to the manufacturing cost. A plain touch screen is simpler to manufacture.
 
my kids setup the Tesla to fart
Whoa! Now I may have a reason to buy a Tesla!
This version won't do data collection on you.
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All this talk of the features and programming has really made me strongly think of buying a new car (well new to me). My experiences in industrial automation, complex arrays of sensors, basically tree root complexity wiring, outdated/unavailable software and hardware is kinda clinching in. Anybody know where there is a 1959 thunderbird for sale? I figure I can do a body off restoration and painting of the sheet metal, redo the interior in leather tuck and roll, fully rebuild the transmission and 352, then upgrade it with either a stock option style whipple centrifugal supercharge, or a twin turbo setup with side pipes, upgrade the suspension a bit and have a car I can drive and repair for the rest of my life cheaper then a nice high end computer with tires..
 
Tesla FSD- I have not needed to drive a car for years...

Interesting timing of the article as Ford changes its strategy.

I've never learned all the buttons and knobs in my cars.

I miss the days of only having stirrups and reins. Things were safer then.
 
I have a real axe to grind with computers infesting every aspect of modern life for the sole purpose of spying on everyone so that their information can be sold to highest bidder while claiming that this 'infestation' is a good thing. I want a car. I don't want a tablet on wheels.
Out of curiosity, where are you getting your paper sectionals and approach plates?
 
Out of curiosity, where are you getting your paper sectionals and approach plates?

Never mind that, how is he accessing PoA?

I'm spectacularly unimpressed by the argument that trying to stop any particular abuse requires simultaneously shirking off ALL abuses one might be subject to.

"All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." -Declaration of Independence
 
I'm spectacularly unimpressed by the argument that trying to stop any particular abuse requires simultaneously shirking off ALL abuses one might be subject to.

"All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." -Declaration of Independence
Lighten up, Francis! This was more good natured ribbing than it was argument. And yes, I’m against auto companies selling my driving information to insurance companies and the other nefarious money grabs.

Where’s that damned green font anyway?
 
1979 W200 4x4 Low tech gold.

Parked for 20 years - aired up the tires, dragged it out, borrowed a 12 volt battery off a farm tractor, checked the oil, topped up the brake fluid and was driving it in less than 2 hours. Lights, alternator, wipers, brakes, clutch, transfer case shift lever all, manual windows, vacuum brake booster, all work fine. Radiator, engine oil, and power steering were full. HVAC box prob packed with mouse nest. All gear boxes need oil level checked and stuff greased.

Literally opened both cab doors and power washed it inside and out.
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1979 W200 4x4 Low tech gold.

Parked for 20 years - aired up the tires, dragged it out, borrowed a 12 volt battery off a farm tractor, checked the oil, topped up the brake fluid and was driving it in less than 2 hours. Lights, alternator, wipers, brakes, clutch, transfer case shift lever all, manual windows, vacuum brake booster, all work fine. Radiator, engine oil, and power steering were full. HVAC box prob packed with mouse nest. All gear boxes need oil level checked and stuff greased.

Literally opened both cab doors and power washed it inside and out.
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225 slant-6, 318, 360?
 
I drove a ‘75 club cab 8ft bed power wagon with 318 and 4 on the floor for many years. Strong dependable workhorse.
 
I recently did not buy a new Mercedes SUV when I finally drove it an it was all touch screen and no real manual back up…ended up with a 2025 Bronco insulated hardtop that was similar in price but has manual back up knobs to the touch screen…I’m sort of happy with it as well…it’s a better driver than I expected.
 
318 4 speed manual. The brown 1979 D200 above has the 360 with a slushbox.
First truck I ever bought was 78 dodge 100 adventurer 4x2 with 318. It eventually got so worn out it didn’t have enough compression left to blow itself up. Finally had to upgrade after the steering box started pulling loose from the rusted out frame (for the second time, first time it got a big plate bolted on to get back to sound metal). I miss that truck, I had converted the factory reciprocating air conditioning compressor into on board air with a tank in the bed and a pressure switch wired to the belt clutch and toggle switch in the dash. I could run power tools off it. ( word of advise, check the engine mounts. Mine, and a high school buddies both had that era dodge 318’s fail and the engine twist itself inside the engine bay. Mine caused the fan to slice a gash in the radiator that I soldered shut with tin can of molten lead and drove it for a few more years).
 
Touchscreens are impossible to control easily in turbulence in planes or bumpy roads in cars. Knobs are easier to manipulate in these situation. In addition, if you are wearing gloves, even touch-responsive gloves, it is STILL hard to accurately press the right part of the screen unless it has been designed with LARGE touch areas. My two autos have hybrid controls, part knobs/buttons/flip switches and part touch screens. The most important features are knobs/buttons/flip switches. Although for both vehicles the designers thought it would be more fun to make you select radio channels with a clumsy touch interface. At least one vehicle will tune reliably using voice commands.

I actually do not mind the knob controls of the old GNS-430W. I can dial up waypoints pretty quickly. The only thing that would be quicker is a miniature keyboard. (But good luck manipulating that with gloves on in the winter.)
 
Personally, I like the touchscreen because I don't have to go hunting all over the dang place for wherever they hid the physical knob for the thing I'm trying to do.

I may be biased because Tesla has done two things WAY WAY better than anyone else: Infotainment system and voice control. Every other manufacturer's systems seem to completely suck. It's why CarPlay and Android Auto exist. And Tesla's voice response system is the best one I've seen in any product, plus I like that I can see what it's "thinking" on the screen.

My next car is going to be a crown vic.

The only people that like all this crap are those that don't want to drive, they want to be driven. They want the automatic system to automate and remove them from interacting with the thousands of pounds of metal encasing them.
I don't want to "drive" when it's just the daily commute on the highway. That's not driving, it's an exercise in frustration with one's fellow man. Now that I drive when I *want* to and not when I *have* to, I love driving again!

Also, it's not like having climate control on a touchscreen really affects my interaction with the car. It frees me up to DRIVE, comfortably, because I no longer need to twist knobs for heat.

Because we should all buy products not for what they are but instead for what the companies pinky-promise they will be in the future. And those promises will never be broken, right? They pinky-swore!
I bought my car for what it did when I bought it. Nothing was promised to me for the future. I got a good deal for what the car was on the day I bought it - And since then the car has gotten quite a bit better, absolutely free. I'm definitely not going to complain about that.

I have a real axe to grind with computers infesting every aspect of modern life for the sole purpose of spying on everyone so that their information can be sold to highest bidder while claiming that this 'infestation' is a good thing. I want a car. I don't want a tablet on wheels.
Make sure your Crown Vic has a manual transmission, hand-cranked windows, a distributor, and a carburetor.

FWIW, I do think this whole thing with selling data to insurance companies is BS. Luckily, Tesla seems to only share data with their own insurance company, and I do not use them for exactly that reason! I also am NOT a fan of the subscription model for car features - I think it's Mercedes (or BMW?) but someone is charging monthly fees for their heated seats. No way I'd go for that.
 
My car's A/C has an 'auto-fan' system where the car determines the fan speed. I hate it, which is completely irrelevant. Whether you like or despise this 'auto-fan' system, adjusting the fan speed manually is quick, easy, and can be done entirely by feel. Dismissing complaints regarding the hiding of previously easy manual controls behind menus on touch-screens by pointing to automation is, in my opinion, intellectually lazy and dishonest.
 
My next car is going to be a crown vic.

BTDT, is was a comfy cruiser. It had the performance and handling package, so cop performance enhancements without the extra frame fortification. That was fine as I didn’t plan on jumping curbs or driving down staircases with this car. Back in the day it parted traffic like Moses parted the Red Sea.

CV01.jpeg

The only people that like all this crap are those that don't want to drive, they want to be driven.

Our DD is a bottom of the line 2-door Wrangler, which is about as polar opposite of automated and smooth as one can get now. Loud, rough riding, and you have to steer and pay attention at all times to keep it in the lane. Manual 6-sp transmission, manual windows, door locks, seats, manual everything. Automatic nothing.

67303547731__AE1C7667-4CD3-4FA2-9983-2A1CC2FFBD8C.jpeg
 
BTDT, is was a comfy cruiser. It had the performance and handling package, so cop performance enhancements without the extra frame fortification. That was fine as I didn’t plan on jumping curbs or driving down staircases with this car. Back in the day it parted traffic like Moses parted the Red Sea.

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If this is where this thread has gone, I guess I'm unmasked, as this is my daily driver for my fairly short 10 mi. o/w commute:
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I may be biased because Tesla has done two things WAY WAY better than anyone else: Infotainment system and voice control. Every other manufacturer's systems seem to completely suck. It's why CarPlay and Android Auto exist. And Tesla's voice response system is the best one I've seen in any product
That's the point, right there. Most car manufacturers make terrible user interfaces and bad software. In that case, I agree. Give me physical buttons. Tesla, and increasingly Rivian and one or two others, have done an excellent job with the UI and software and, when a problem is discovered, it is quickly fixed. I loved Android Auto but haven't missed it at all. The native Tesla nav and entertainment is better and so well integrated.

I don't want to "drive" when it's just the daily commute on the highway. That's not driving, it's an exercise in frustration with one's fellow man. Now that I drive when I *want* to and not when I *have* to, I love driving again!
Exactly. FSD has an OFF switch. Use it whenever you want to drive. The rest of the cars are missing the ON switch.
 
BTDT, is was a comfy cruiser. It had the performance and handling package, so cop performance enhancements without the extra frame fortification. That was fine as I didn’t plan on jumping curbs or driving down staircases with this car. Back in the day it parted traffic like Moses parted the Red Sea.

View attachment 148228



Our DD is a bottom of the line 2-door Wrangler, which is about as polar opposite of automated and smooth as one can get now. Loud, rough riding, and you have to steer and pay attention at all times to keep it in the lane. Manual 6-sp transmission, manual windows, door locks, seats, manual everything. Automatic nothing.
That’s not a Crown Vic. This is:cool:
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The touchscreen thing will be less of an issue once voice commands + AI become more reliable (which they are every day). It should be a no brainer to very soon say "Set Nav 1 to Linden VOR," or "walk me through my landing checklist" and only look at the screen briefly to confirm.
 
My car's A/C has an 'auto-fan' system where the car determines the fan speed. I hate it, which is completely irrelevant. Whether you like or despise this 'auto-fan' system, adjusting the fan speed manually is quick, easy, and can be done entirely by feel. Dismissing complaints regarding the hiding of previously easy manual controls behind menus on touch-screens by pointing to automation is, in my opinion, intellectually lazy and dishonest.
All manufacturers, whether they use all touchscreen, all knobs, or a combination, have different ergonomics. Some people buy cars based on looks, and suffer with the ergonomics, some consider all factors.
 
The touchscreen thing will be less of an issue once voice commands + AI become more reliable (which they are every day).
Take a loot of this that was recorded earlier this week. I have it queued up to start at the segment where he's using voice control with Grok integration to make complex changes to his navigation route.

 
My car's A/C has an 'auto-fan' system where the car determines the fan speed. I hate it, which is completely irrelevant.
I don't think that's irrelevant at all. When things are automated, they should be automated so well that you don't notice. If you notice, and hate it, then the automation sucks, and they should have left you with a knob.

Whether you like or despise this 'auto-fan' system, adjusting the fan speed manually is quick, easy, and can be done entirely by feel.
But if you didn't need to do it, the knob would be extraneous.

Dismissing complaints regarding the hiding of previously easy manual controls behind menus on touch-screens by pointing to automation is, in my opinion, intellectually lazy and dishonest.
No it's not. I've heard that way back in the day cars had a control to manually adjust ignition timing. I don't see anyone clamoring for that - It's because when it was automated, it was done right. Same thing with chokes and a host of other things that haven't been on cars in decades.

In the past decade, I've had a pair of Fords, a Jeep, a pair of Chevys, a BMW, a Nissan, a Lexus, and the Tesla, so I've gotten to experience how all of them have done in the various things that are being automated now.

One key thing is that Tesla has had the best automation by far in almost all areas, the glaring exception being the windshield wipers which are a bit "eager" sometimes IMO.

Also, before the law passed that allowed them to enable the matrix headlights, I've gotta say that Chevy's auto high beams were excellent, and just slightly better than Tesla's. Now that the matrix headlights are enabled on my car, it's super cool - You can see a dark spot moving where there's an oncoming car, but it's essentially high beams all the time so that I can see all of the deer we have running out of the woods everywhere. And it definitely works, I think I've only been "brighted" once in the past year or so since they were enabled and I think that was a warning. It wasn't frequent before, but definitely more frequent.

Tesla has gotten a few things automated pretty much perfectly that everyone else is still trying to catch up with:
1) Climate control. I don't have to adjust this at all. It just works and I'm always comfortable. Both for cabin temp as well as the heated seats and steering wheel.
2) Voice control. I don't know how they did it when everyone else's voice control systems kinda suck, both automotive and otherwise, but it's fantastic.
3) General controls - There's no start/stop button. It'll auto-shift to park if you unbuckle your seat belt or take your butt off the seat while stopped or just stay still for a really long time. Audio always goes back to whatever you had it set on last (*glares at the Lexus*).
I'm not going to make this an exhaustive list because I don't want to think that hard this late, but as automated as the Tesla is, I don't find myself wishing for more control back like I do in the other cars. It's automated in a way that works exactly how you'd want it to, so you don't miss the control, and in fact when I drive other cars it drives me nuts that I have to do some of that stuff. It feels just as archaic as manual ignition timing and chokes would.

The touchscreen thing will be less of an issue once voice commands + AI become more reliable (which they are every day). It should be a no brainer to very soon say "Set Nav 1 to Linden VOR," or "walk me through my landing checklist" and only look at the screen briefly to confirm.
I really wish Garmin would do more with this. I've been able to give voice commands to my plane since 2017. The available command list has not gotten any bigger, it hasn't gotten any better at interpreting commands (even though it is pretty good, it's certainly not as good as the Tesla), and it's still restricted to controlling the audio panel and one GTN.

Ever since I started flying in a two-crew environment, I've thought that it would be really nice to have a "virtual FO" and I was pretty excited by Goose, but sadly that doesn't seem to be going anywhere either, and it doesn't work nearly as well as I want it to. I hope Garmin can step up here.
 
I remember the B-747-200, it was probably the last pure analog panel and it was fascinating to watch and listen to all those mechanical pointers, bars, flags and cards align and test when you powered it up. There was so much intricate three dimensional elegance literally oozing quality and craftmanship from every gauge, button, dial and switch. Yea, I'm old, go ahead and call me grandpa but it's your loss if you never got to see something like that.

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