Things that get ignored

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by brien23, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. JAWS

    JAWS Line Up and Wait

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    Yep. Every inspection I have certified is wrong. Every audit is wrong because they didn't catch my wrongness. :cool:

    Tom is welcome to his opinions. I wish him luck. :)
     
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  2. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The number one cause of general aviation fatalities is improperly endorsed log book entries. Just check the latest Nall report if you don't believe me.
     
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  3. chartbundle

    chartbundle Line Up and Wait

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    I thought it was failure to file a flight plan.
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    But who reads them correctly, when they do not understand what Shall means?

    Simple stuff means a lot.

    From my link above.

    Until recently, law schools taught attorneys that "shall" means "must." That's why many attorneys and executives think "shall" means "must." It's not their fault. The Federal Plain Writing Act and the Federal Plain Language Guidelines only appeared in 2010. And the fact is, even though "must" has come to be the only clear, valid way to express "mandatory," most parts of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFRs) that govern federal departments still use the word "shall" for that purpose.

    So was FAR 43-D written prior to 2010?
    Which meaning did the FAA imply.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  5. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I read the entire document, and it sounds to me like they're saying that "Shall" shouldn't be used any more, period, due to perceived ambiguity (thank you, USSC). They're saying that new regulations should not use Shall at all, they should use "Must", but that where Shall still appears, it means Must.
     
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  6. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Good job dodging my question. Let's try it this way, correct me if I'm wrong: your position is that the interpretation of an FAA regulation by the FAA's own Office of Chief Counsel carries less weight than your own interpretation of that regulation? You have that position despite the fact that the FAA wrote the reg, is charged with interpreting and enforcing the reg, and the Office of Chief Counsel, which within the FAA is the office responsible for providing interpretations of the FAA regs, has issued an interpretation on this very point that says that the pre-inspection tasks such as removing inspection panels and cowls may be delegated?
     
  7. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    not my positional all.
     
  8. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    That is my take too.
    This regulation was written long ago, Prior to farther clarification of the meaning.
    But every one blows it off due to the later interpretation.
     
  9. JAWS

    JAWS Line Up and Wait

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    And aviation will never be the same again! :p
     
  10. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    So you accept that an IA can delegate to an owner or other person tasks such as removing inspection panels, cowls, etc. in connection with an annual or 100hr inspection?
     
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  11. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude

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    Wow this thread took a turn for the worse. Standard
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    post 88
     
  13. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    All you're proving is that you're good at dodging questions.
     
  14. Bell206

    Bell206 Line Up and Wait

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    Don't know about up in the PNW, but the FSDOs and FAA seminars I've been through have been promoting owner involvement in annuals for over 25 years, specifically panels and cleaning. I guess the Feds finally had to clarify that stance with an LOI for those who are still confused by "before that inspection."
     
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  15. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Even so, the FAA's letter of interpretation that was posted earlier makes it abundantly clear that it's OK to delegate the opening of panels, cleaning, etc to someone else, yet it sounds like you disagree? Why?
     
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  16. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Dun matter....Tom thinks otherwise. :lol:
     
  17. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    LOI's do not delete what the AD says, this Regulation was written long before the meaning changed, You do as you like, I know you will anyway.
     
  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    IOWs you didn't read it or you can't understand what it say. either way ?
    Why repeat it, you wouldn't understand then either.
     
  19. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas En-Route

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    For sure. I find sludge in them. Haven't been out in 40 years.

    Another one is the fuel strainer (gascolator). I have found the bowls stuck solid to the upper body and have had to use a hammer to break them loose. The O-rings are hard and crumbling. The filter screen is full of junk. The aluminum bowl is corroded almost all the way through because nobody ever drained the water out of the thing. A fuel filter is a common-sense item, isn't it? A leaking strainer is asking for a fire. A blocked strainer kills the engine. Cessna wants that thing apart every 100 hours or one year. I can't understand how some shops can ignore an important part of the fuel system for so many years. One year is long enough.
     
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  20. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Carburetor fuel inlet screens, Lycoming oil suction screens, vacuum regulator filter, vacuum system filter. Just about anything really.
     
  21. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    You do know there is an AD for that

    And folks wonder why I like the old early glass bowl strainer assembly, with the low point drain built in.
     
  22. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas En-Route

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    Really? For draining or cleaning the strainer? Which one would that be?
     
  23. JAWS

    JAWS Line Up and Wait

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    And now an AD is being interjected into the diatribe? :confused:
     
  24. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    You must have missed it when it was mentioned before, If you are going to eves drop, pay attention.
     
  25. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Tom, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do try to keep up with the meaning of FARs. Now, what is this AD you are referring to? :dunno:
     
  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    This is the AD I had in mind, some gascolators had a problems that caused water to not be drained, and so they corroded, This cause most inspectors to inspect them all. I was sure there was a AD to require that But I can't find it.

    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...FA9F23E11131B02886256A4C004DF1D7?OpenDocument
     
  27. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    So thread creep ? So what? it happens all the time here, How come you only have a problem when I do it?
     
  28. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    That was for replacement assemblies shipped between December 12, 1996 and September 5, 1997 due to manufacturing error, has little to do with the poor maintenance or corroded bowls.
     
  29. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Antennas, antenna sealing, static wicks, brake hoses, lighting lenses, plastic fairings, engine control cables, on and on.
     
  30. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    That was the cause of the corroded bowls, corrosion was how the short tubes were discovered.
    It all started with this service bulletin
    ourpdf.pdf
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  31. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    The tube that caused the AD has nothing to do with draining the bowl or causing corrosion in the bowl. The only way anyone would have ever known this tube had an issue is if they found it had fallen out or was too short to pass through the lower hole in the screen. It is pretty obvious they assume the tube was cut to correct length and are asking you to verify it was pressed into the top correctly.

    https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=17526

    upload_2018-9-14_9-51-9.png
     
  32. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas En-Route

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    Nope. Corrosion was never blamed on that. But there are a few about draining and maintenance. Here are two::
    http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...004BC384?OpenDocument&Highlight=fuel strainer

    http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...006A75F3?OpenDocument&Highlight=fuel strainer

    Note that they address the lack of a drain valve or the habit of never draining or cleaning. And note that they are model specific, not a general demand to drain or check all strainers, though that would be a good idea. Some guys won't do even the sensible stuff without being legislated into it.
     
  33. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So we're not even talking about who is allowed to open panels then? Am I getting that right?

    It seems to me that the LOI has absolutely nothing to do with this AD?
     
  34. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Well...that’s not considered maintenance or inspection. But that won’t matter. :confused:
     
  35. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  36. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Is that safety wire pulling in the right direction?
    I ask b/c I just posted about a new-to-me gascolator I am looking at, in a type-forum wondering the same thing.

    View attachment 67127
     
  37. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    If your complaning about thread creep, you are posting in the wrong thread/ forum.

    https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/gascolators.113713/
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  38. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    The master of creep has spoken....:)
     
  39. JAWS

    JAWS Line Up and Wait

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    That was my thought. I was duly told I was eavesdropping. Whatever - consider the source!
     
  40. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yes, in old school drafting, which that drawing is, a dashed line indicates that something is on the opposite side (backside) of the solid object.
     
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