Things that get ignored

brien23

brien23

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Brien
Things that never seem to get attention or fixed. Piper PA-28-140 electric fuel pump filter their is a filter inside the pump that never gets changed. fuel lines behind the piper fuel tanks probably original and hard as a rock. Broken off fuel vent lines under fuel tank broken off flush with the bottom side of the wing. Cessna 172 fuel valve their is a plug that no one ever removes and drains, some have a drain valve most have a plug, this is the lowest point in the fuel system. Vacuum filters seem to be on the list of things overlooked and not changed. Their is a screen in the fuel inlet of the Carburetor and a plug to drain the bowl it never gets drained. And don't forget to change the air in the tires from summer air to a winter mix of air.
 
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That's always amazed me how things get over looked, have looked under an instrument panel and the vacuum filter was dark grey, they are supposed to be changed annually, such is life I guess, but i always try to do the best inspections I can
 
Beech Musketeer has the same set up in the electric pump. Mine was clean as a whistle last annual..:rolleyes: Vacuum filter as well..
 
I must be lucky and have a good mechanic and a good understanding of my airplane. None of those got overlooked on any of my annuals. In fact I had to replace my fuel pump because the filter inspection. It was leaking but not bad enough to be seen outside of the cowling or on the floor of the hangar. I am ashamed however that I have failed to change the air from summer to winter in the tires more than once. My first annual caught all those things mentioned. My vacuum filter looked like a Marlborough cigarette butt. Thankfully, I don't have to worry about those anymore.
 
I tried to replace the fuel filter in the fuel pump of my Cherokee. I called spruce with the part number and they had a really really hard time finding one. The phone call turned up empty. So I have not replaced mine.

They always say parts are a dime a dozen for cherokee's yet every part I have needed is super hard to find. Hahaha oh well
 
simtech said:
I tried to replace the fuel filter in the fuel pump of my Cherokee. I called spruce with the part number and they had a really really hard time finding one. The phone call turned up empty. So I have not replaced mine.

They always say parts are a dime a dozen for cherokee's yet every part I have needed is super hard to find. Hahaha oh well
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As a Cherokee owner, I've found that All parts are plentiful for the Cherokee, just not the ones I need. I feel your pain. You're probably talking about that copper screen aren't you?
 
simtech said:
I tried to replace the fuel filter in the fuel pump of my Cherokee. I called spruce with the part number and they had a really really hard time finding one. The phone call turned up empty. So I have not replaced mine.

They always say parts are a dime a dozen for cherokee's yet every part I have needed is super hard to find. Hahaha oh well
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Was it part of an assembly? I've run into that. Although it has a PN, it's not sold separate.
 
When the annual is a owner assisted, wouldn't the owner be complicit in maintenance that occurs during the inspection?

how many owners have actually seen the check list the IA uses?

And OBTW, where does FAR 43-D say anything must be replaced during any inspection?
 
simtech said:
I tried to replace the fuel filter in the fuel pump of my Cherokee. I called spruce with the part number and they had a really really hard time finding one. The phone call turned up empty. So I have not replaced mine.

They always say parts are a dime a dozen for cherokee's yet every part I have needed is super hard to find. Hahaha oh well
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Spruce part number 05-01019 05-01019.jpg
 
Timbeck2 said:
As a Cherokee owner, I've found that All parts are plentiful for the Cherokee, just not the ones I need. I feel your pain. You're probably talking about that copper screen aren't you?
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Its that filter stone looking one. 20180730_113708.jpg
 
brien23 said:
Spruce part number 05-01019 View attachment 67015
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I saw that but it didn't seem to cross over and way different from what I have. Not that that means anything.
Unit74 said:
Was it part of an assembly? I've run into that. Although it has a PN, it's not sold separate.
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It is, it's part of the fuel pump. You would think a common item would have parts easily available...pfft. short of buying a new pump. Ugh
 
Tom-D said:
When the annual is a owner assisted, wouldn't the owner be complicit in maintenance that occurs during the inspection?

...
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Do you allow owners to assist?

If so, do you make them sign the logbooks? ;)
 
They don’t need to sign. I just add the name to the entry. Supervised Joe schmoe in the maintenance of blah blah.... it serves its purpose for a jury trial. ;)
 
GRG55 said:
Do you allow owners to assist?

If so, do you make them sign the logbooks? ;)
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Yes, I do owner assisted annuals,but here's the legality they don't sign for the inspection, they do make the return to service for what they do.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
They don’t need to sign. I just add the name to the entry. Supervised Joe schmoe in the maintenance of blah blah.... it serves its purpose for a jury trial. ;)
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Oh NO! they must place their pilots number in the return to service entry.
" Completed replacement of the _____, tested IAW ______
Joe the pilot PPLxxxxxxxx
Under the supervision of
The Mechanic. AP-XXXXXXX
 
Tom-D said:
Oh NO!
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No, is correct. Only the person approving the work for RTS is required to put certificate number. So in your example, if the pilot performed the "replacement" under preventative mx then he is the one approving RTS and your sign off not required. If the replacement is not covered by prevent mx then only his name is required with your name/cert# providing the approve RTS. Part 43.
 
brien23 said:
Things that never seem to get attention or fixed. Piper PA-28-140 electric fuel pump filter their is a filter inside the pump that never gets changed. fuel lines behind the piper fuel tanks probably original and hard as a rock. Broken off fuel vent lines under fuel tank broken off flush with the bottom side of the wing. Cessna 172 fuel valve their is a plug that no one ever removes and drains, some have a drain valve most have a plug, this is the lowest point in the fuel system. Vacuum filters seem to be on the list of things overlooked and not changed. Their is a screen in the fuel inlet of the Carburetor and a plug to drain the bowl it never gets drained. And don't forget to change the air in the tires from summer air to a winter mix of air.
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You get what you pay for. Owner wants an annual done right now and as cheap as possible. "Next year"! :rolleyes:
 
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Tom-D said:
When the annual is a owner assisted, wouldn't the owner be complicit in maintenance that occurs during the inspection?

how many owners have actually seen the check list the IA uses?

And OBTW, where does FAR 43-D say anything must be replaced during any inspection?
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On my owner-assisted annuals, we follow the factory list to the letter, have done for several years. It is tedious, but when all done, I feel a lot better about the whole thing.
 
SCCutler said:
On my owner-assisted annuals, we follow the factory list to the letter, have done for several years. It is tedious, but when all done, I feel a lot better about the whole thing.
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Awesome! :)
 
JAWS said:
You get what you pay for. Owner wants an annual done right now and as cheap as possible. "Next year"! :rolleyes:
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Yep, and unfortunately “next year” turns into “never” far too often.

I’ve discontinued helping a number of owners due to this kind of approach to maintenance.
 
mondtster said:
Yep, and unfortunately “next year” turns into “never” far too often.

I’ve discontinued helping a number of owners due to this kind of approach to maintenance.
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:eek:

Jeez, when I say "next year" I mean it - And it's always something that isn't likely to affect safety of flight, but is very expensive. And I already have the parts for last year's "next year" even though my annual isn't until December. Saved about $700 by buying at Oshkosh, which is the whole reason I said "next year" in the first place!

When I first read the OP, Mike Busch's story about 310 gear rigging came to mind... That apparently gets "next yeared" a lot.
 
SCCutler said:
On my owner-assisted annuals, we follow the factory list to the letter, have done for several years. It is tedious, but when all done, I feel a lot better about the whole thing.
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What happens when the aircraft has been altered to the point the service manuals no longer apply?
case in point engine upgrades.
and ICAs
This is why the FAA makes FAR 43-D the minimum requirement, and never makes a solid FAR for annual inspections.
see
Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of Items (as Applicable to the Particular Aircraft) To Be Included in Annual and 100-Hour Inspections
You'll see it is a very generic list, to be Tailored to fit the Particular aircraft being inspected.
 
Bell206 said:
No, is correct. Only the person approving the work for RTS is required to put certificate number. So in your example, if the pilot performed the "replacement" under preventative mx then he is the one approving RTS and your sign off not required. If the replacement is not covered by prevent mx then only his name is required with your name/cert# providing the approve RTS. Part 43.
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I do not train A&Ps so the only people who I will supervise will be the owner, so I will always CYA as the FAA advises.
The person who does the job makes out the return to service entry, and signs it with their name and number, then if required I will return it with my name and number.
That is not a regulation, it is a civil lawyer's advice to contaminate the liability loop.
Your way you might as well sign it off by your self. If you can't prove which Joe Smith did the job, why place their name at all?
 
Tom-D said:
it is a civil lawyer's advice to contaminate the liability loop.
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In civil matters, it's been my experience the opposing side will determine what's reasonable for them regardless if you followed the rules or not. However, with regulatory matters, I've noticed the closer one stays to the rule, the less one needs to explain at those unfortunate times.
Tom-D said:
why place their name at all?
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Because technically it's part of the rule.
 
Tom-D said:
And technically its owner maintenance, do you let friends help?
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Call it what you want. It's all good under 43. Considering I probably assisted owners more often than not with mx on their aircraft, I regularly included their name in the logbook entry if it was outside the prevent mx requirements.

Never had any of my friends help, but have had some owner's friends assist over the years. Even had a dad bring his 3 boys to gut the interior for an avionics upgrade. Let the boys print their name in the logbook entry and I signed below all official. Made their day.

The day I sweat over the work performed by another under my watch is the day I stop turning wrenches. My concern are the ones who's motto is: "if it ain't in the logbook it didn't happen.... "
 
Bell206 said:
My concern are the ones who's motto is: "if it ain't in the logbook it didn't happen.... "
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Unless the FAA can prove you did it, and didn't place an entry in the aircraft records, they will not pursue a violation.
 
Tom-D said:
And technically its owner maintenance, do you let friends help?
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Yep. Lots of people can pull panels and clean parts and check tire pressures during an inspection. Falls under my responsibilty and I double check things that need double checking.

Tom-D said:
Unless the FAA can prove you did it, and didn't place an entry in the aircraft records, they will not pursue a violation.
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The article below might shed some light on that way of thinking.

https://www.askbob.aero/node/4165
 
Things that get ignored? Brake masters. Many have never been rebuilt. They need to be.
 
Big one is the chain drive on Cessna autopilot servos. They never get lubed properly if at all, and when they do they are cleaned with solvent (Cessna Service manual says don't use solvents there). If you have ever turned the yoke on a Cessna and get a notchy feedback, that's the A/P drive chain with dried out lubricants.
 
JAWS said:
Yep. Lots of people can pull panels and clean parts and check tire pressures during an inspection. Falls under my responsibilty and I double check things that need double checking.
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Have you ever read FAR 43-D?
(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.

Where does it say have his friends do--?

And 43.15
 
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I think that just rules out those "special" mechanics that can sign off an annual without looking inside!
 
Tom-D said:
Have you ever read FAR 43-D?
(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
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Tom, read FAR #1, definitions. The definition of "person" is quite broad.

-Skip
 
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