Still thinking about an RV-14

kyleb said:
Do yourself a favor and debur the heck out of the lightening holes in your ribs. Otherwise whoever bucks those rivets will end up with forearms that look like they encountered an angry tiger.
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Not that I'd know or not that deburring isnt a good idea... But I've got cut resistant heat sleeves that would prevent just that.

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Racerx said:
Not that I'd know or that deburring isnt a good idea... But I've got cut resistant heat sleeves that would prevent just that.
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I *did* debur my lightening holes, but wrapping my arm in a towel still helped with the bruising.

Nauga,
whose wife was a better rivet driver
 
In case you were lacking motivation today for some reason, today in the land of flying RV-14s I did a short IFR trip (IFR because of fog and smoke at departure and even thicker at destination; flying because it’s about 50 minutes in the air or 3 hours on the ground and I am going to what amounts to a one-hour meeting). I cruised consistently at 172 KTAS at 9,000 MSL on 8.6 gph. A turbo Bonanza 36 at 9,500 was just off my 4 o’clock but couldn’t catch me and ended up sequenced behind me for the ILS when he called for his clearance. I found 17” MAP to be about right to keep pace with the Citation Excel ahead of me on the ILS and not run up his tailpipe. I’m still adjusting to the wheel pants and the challenge of slowing to flaps speed (100 KIAS) at the end of a precision approach, but it all went smoothly.

I love this stupid plane. Carry on.
 
Haven't had much chance to work on the project this week as I'm working long days to catch up on all the stuff I should've been doing all summer. Harvest starts Monday. I did take the time to go to breakfast at JVL this morning which was a nice distraction.

Also reached a minor milestone on the 14, as my EAA chapter technical counselor came by this afternoon and inspected my wings. He did point out some over-driven skin rivets, but said they weren't bad enough to drill out and gave me his blessing to close up the wings.

I did make some progress on the flaps last week, but it'll be a month before I make any more significant progress. Fuselage kit is supposed to ship in November. Maybe i won't have to drive to Bloomington for this one ;)

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iamtheari said:
I cruised consistently at 172 KTAS at 9,000 MSL on 8.6 gph. A turbo Bonanza 36 at 9,500 was just off my 4 o’clock but couldn’t catch me
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Cruising at 9,000 in that Bonanza is a waste of both a turbo and a bunch of fuel! You were probably burning less than half of what he was. :D And those are great numbers! I'm happy with 12gph at that speed and altitude.
 
Finally finished the bottom wing skins, so I officially have wings! I'm extremely happy to be done with wing skins. Hour after hour of riveting and it doesn't look any different. Looking forward to flaps and ailerons where I'm actually building something again.

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Personally, I would be inclined to take the balloons off before the rubber turns to goop.
 
Years ago, I bought a huge assortment of "Caplugs" on eBay or Amazon. They're really handy around the shop for stuff like that, or keeping an oil line from dripping when you leave an engine partially disassembled.
 
Depending on how long you need it capped off, maybe just use some electrical wire shrink wrap. The end will close up nicely, water proof, etc. Will remove cleanly when needed.
 
Another option is to cover the fitting with a small piece of plastic (from a drop cloth, ziplock bag, garbage bag, shopping bag, anything really) and tie it off with a zip tie.
 
What I did to keep dirt and bugs out of my fuel tanks was finish the plane, fill the tanks, and go flying. I recommend it.
 
ColinD said:
Years ago, I bought a huge assortment of "Caplugs" on eBay or Amazon. They're really handy around the shop for stuff like that, or keeping an oil line from dripping when you leave an engine partially disassembled.
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When I forget to get mine before I open lines, I've been known to use an ear plug until I can find where i put the caps.
 
Harvest is over, so shop time is happening again. I actually took a whole day off yesterday, which hasn't happened in about three months. Anyway, I managed to sneak in another hour tonight, and I have flaps!

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Very cool!! How would you rate the build experience so far? More or less difficult than expected ? I’m tempted to pull the trigger just not sure I possess the patience, focus, and skill.
Mostly the 1st two.
 
Jim K said:
Harvest is over, so shop time is happening again. I actually took a whole day off yesterday, which hasn't happened in about three months. Anyway, I managed to sneak in another hour tonight, and I have flaps!
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Is it time for the next kit yet? Is the fuse next? IIRC the RVs come in 4 kits, right?

Looking back, you started this thread almost a year ago (Nov. 13th) and got the first parts on Jan. 2nd. Tail and wings, you're halfway there right??? Making great progress anyway!
 
Kitch said:
Very cool!! How would you rate the build experience so far? More or less difficult than expected ? I’m tempted to pull the trigger just not sure I possess the patience, focus, and skill.
Mostly the 1st two.
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Less difficult i would say. The instructions are almost as good as Lego. i have found in these last couple chapters that they assume you know more by now, so they are less hand-holdy. There's also recently been a few mistakes and missing steps. For example, nowhere does it say to actually rivet the trailing edges of the flaps.

I've also made some mistakes, but between the internet, van's, and the 43-13, they haven't slowed me down much. I'm not too bothered by the occasional dent or slightly ugly rivet so long as it's within spec. I think a perfectionist could double the build time easily and spend a lot of money replacing parts.

The wing skins have been the only part so far that has really tried my patience. Everything else you can see the progress and it makes it exciting to work on. I'm beginning to understand the serial builders. It's partly my personality I think... when i used to shoot a lot, I enjoyed reloading ammo almost more than shooting. I've built a couple motorcycles and have more time into the rebuilds than I have riding them.

flyingcheesehead said:
Is it time for the next kit yet? Is the fuse next? IIRC the RVs come in 4 kits, right?

Looking back, you started this thread almost a year ago (Nov. 13th) and got the first parts on Jan. 2nd. Tail and wings, you're halfway there right??? Making great progress anyway!
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Almost. In progress with the ailerons; once those are done i think that leaves the pushrods and the wingtips (fiberglass :raspberry:). Fuselage kit is paid for and scheduled to ship Nov 25. Should be about right, and i could always start working on the engine. Spruce claims to have IO-390 cylinder kits in stock now :rockon:

Yes, 4 kits... tail, wings, fuse., and "finishing". I'm about 650 hours in; Van's says the airframe should take 2000, and I think I'm about on pace for that. Then engine, avionics, interior. If i can keep up this pace (and don't run out of money...), it might be flying some time in 2028.
 
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I lost track - are you using the quick build kits?
 
Cost, or don’t mind the extra build time?
 
Jim K said:
The wing skins have been the only part so far that has really tried my patience. Everything else you can see the progress and it makes it exciting to work on.
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Hope you find something else rewarding when you get to the 90% done / 90% to go part of the build!
 
Yeah, I really did loose track there….. :D
 
Don’t forget the firewall forward kit. But that one is more of an in-stock, cardboard box, UPS kit than the others that they crate up and send by truck.

And be warned that the finishing kit is also known as the canopy kit, for good reason. It’s much easier than the other RV models (no “big cut”) but still a lot of tedious work. My 2019 consisted mostly of the canopy.
 
I get the sense from reading accounts of others that finishing the tail, wings, and fuselage gets you half way. The engine, prop, avionics, interior, painting, etc. is the second half.

For those smarter than me on this, is that close?
 
WDD said:
I get the sense from reading accounts of others that finishing the tail, wings, and fuselage gets you half way. The engine, prop, avionics, interior, painting, etc. is the second half.

For those smarter than me on this, is that close?
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As the kits have become more mature (match drilled holes, for instance) the airframe side of the equation has gotten simpler/shorter to build, while the finishing/firewall forward/panel stuff hasn't changed much. Of course a lot of the panel and finishing work is driven by how much the builder does vs how much s/he pays a shop to do. You can save hundreds of hours of labor by hiring out the paint job, for instance. Likewise, you can save tens of hours by having a shop make up most of your avionics harnesses and a similar amount by having a shop cut and label your panel.
 
Well damn. Went out to start on the right aileron this evening and discovered that the factory had mislabeled the right aileron spar. I have two lefts and no right.
 
Jim K said:
Well damn. Went out to start on the right aileron this evening and discovered that the factory had mislabeled the right aileron spar. I have two lefts and no right.
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You sure the right one isn't inside the left aileron? :o

What do they look like?
 
Hey, just turn it upside down! :biggrin:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You sure the right one isn't inside the left aileron? :o

What do they look like?
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WDD said:
Hey, just turn it upside down! :biggrin:
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Yep... those are two of the questions I spent 45 minutes exploring last night after I realized something was wrong. It's hard to explain without seeing it, but there's a 1.5" steel pipe used as a counterweight in the nose of the aileron that runs about 2/3 of the length. There's holes for it in the nose skin, so there's a definite left and right for both the skins and the spars that carry the ribs that the pipe attaches to. Further, van's put a different number of holes in the top and bottom of the skin/spar to prevent you from installing it upside down. It only goes one way. You can't turn it over because then the rib holes don't line up. It's very cleverly designed to make it impossible to put together wrong, but that also means unique parts for left and right.
 
Jim K said:
Yep... those are two of the questions I spent 45 minutes exploring last night after I realized something was wrong. It's hard to explain without seeing it, but there's a 1.5" steel pipe used as a counterweight in the nose of the aileron that runs about 2/3 of the length. There's holes for it in the nose skin, so there's a definite left and right for both the skins and the spars that carry the ribs that the pipe attaches to. Further, van's put a different number of holes in the top and bottom of the skin/spar to prevent you from installing it upside down. It only goes one way. You can't turn it over because then the rib holes don't line up. It's very cleverly designed to make it impossible to put together wrong, but that also means unique parts for left and right.
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Well, well. Fancy pre-drilled everything isn't always great! RV-9 ailerons have similar counterweights, but they were the same on both sides since they were not drilled!
 
To Van's credit....I called Friday and spoke to a very nice young sounding lady who promptly sent me an email to gather the specifics. She put an (no-charge) order in for me on Tuesday, and I got shipping notification today (Wednesday). Previous orders from them have taken weeks to get shipped, so maybe things are improving.
 
Jim K said:
A while ago I got all hot & bothered with the idea of building an RV-14. I decided it was way too much money and I didn't have enough time. I'd still like to build one, but it'll be down the road.

So working on this IO-540 project, I find that I'm really enjoying it, in spite of not-insignificant challenges and frustrations. Something about working at that level of precision, and the highly-regulated nature of it with procedures and manuals and part numbers....tickles my brain.

I also have started tracking my hours spent on this engine with the idea of going after an experience based A&P certificate some day. I doubt this engine will even get me 10% of the way there, but it's a start.

Then I started thinking about the RV-14 again. It would get me experience on the airframe side and avionics, and would be a lot less expensive if I built an engine up myself from a core instead of buying a new one. In the end I would have an awesome airplane and a couple thousand hours of experience. No real hurry as I have a flying airplane. If I ordered the kit soonish, it should show up about the time this engine project wraps up and I could get a decent start this winter. I was surprised to see how much lead times have dropped after the company went bankrupt and jacked up prices:eek2:. I have a heated detached garage that is currently housing the engine project and could easily be used to build in afterwards.

OTOH, once the Lance is back together, I'll have an engine to break in and I'd like to get back to my commercial training that I don't have time for.

So I ordered the practice kit and -14 plans on a USB to see if I enjoy the metal work and exactly how imposing the project is. I have a real problem with starting projects, so maybe throw some cold water on me over here.
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They seem to be beloved airplanes. I was only in one once. If you really enjoy the building process and have the time-go for it. I would enjoy the flying, not the building---so for me buying one already put together is the only thing that would make sense. I respect those willing to go through all the hassle---but all that time spent in a hangar would be better spent in the air from my point of view.
 
There is an amazing amount of satisfaction and pleasure in completing a difficult task. When, as with the RV, it is one that many people will identify with, and envy, the satisfaction is even greater.

I created an accessory for my rollator, which I now need to enjoy life, there was initial satisfaction that it worked as desired. Even greater satisfaction and pride resulted from other people noticing it, and asking where they could get one, and WOW when I explained that I had made it. They are disappointed when I explain that it is hard enough to make, that I am unwilling to make them one.

Your own kids participating is an immense plus. Both of my sons have worked with me to accomplish smaller, but difficult tasks, and all 3 of us recall with pride that we had such a fine outcome.

I envy Jim, both the satisfaction of the build, and the thrill of flying it.
 
After the movie, I went out and riveted the trailing edge of the right aileron, finishing chapter 22. 23 (aileron pushrods) is almost done with the exception of attaching the pushrods to the ailerons and adjusting their length. 24 is the wingtips, of which i already have one done, so I'm closing in on the end of the wing kit. A couple wiring cleanups and then figuring out how to get them to the hangar.

Got an email from Van's yesterday that they have "assigned a crating window", whatever that means. It also says they are running 2-3 weeks behind the targeted ship date, which in my case is 11-25. Fingers crossed I get it before Christmas.

I was kind of planning on getting one of those inflatable paint booths, but i realized last night that I have a neighbor/friend who is a paint and body man with a professional paint booth in his shed. I suspect hiring him to teach me how to do it and provide the correct equipment would yield far better results, while still achieving the goals of learning the skills and saving money. Need to do a little research on paint and see if he's up for it. Seems like it might make sense to do it before moving the wings to the hangar so I only have to move them once. @kyleb ... you painted your planes, right? Any advice?

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Jim K said:
Need to do a little research on paint and see if he's up for it. Seems like it might make sense to do it before moving the wings to the hangar so I only have to move them once. @kyleb ... you painted your planes, right? Any advice?
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I did the prep work (in pieces) on the RV-10, but had a friend with an aircraft paint shop shoot the color coats. I painted the RV-6 in pieces in my garage. The paint has held up extremely well for 25 years. The real work is in the prep - getting everything clean, fixing any imperfections, finishing the fiberglass (the wingtips, in your case). Spraying the paint is where you need technique and your neighbor can help you there.

Since your neighbor has a booth, that sounds ideal. Pick the right paint - Sherwin Williams, PPG, and Axalta (used to be Dupont) all have good products. I always suggest using a paint system you can source at the local auto paint shop so if you need advice, catalyst, etc. you can grab it there, rather than ordering it and waiting. The question you have to ask yourself is if you want a nice paint job or if you're willing to spend twice the time for an amazing paint job. For instance, the folks at Evoke dip a gloved finger in high build primer and partially fill every flush rivet circle, the sand the rivet lines. The finished product looks amazing. But the time, dear lord. That's one of the reasons they charge 30-40K for a paint job. Fiberglass finishing can be a real time suck too.

I'm sure there are better painters here than me, but feel free to reach out with questions.
 
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