Still thinking about an RV-14

Holy crap there's a lot of little parts in this kit. Easily double any of the previous kits. I'm foreseeing a lot of digging in my future. My organization is non-existent, but I really don't have enough space to do anything much better. I have one more pile that looks like one of these shelves in another spot, and the brakes, wheels, and tires are stashed in another spot:

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Annoyingly, the tires & tubes are Aero Classic. I'd rather have sourced them myself than use that garbage. I'm sure the tires are fine, but I don't think I'll use the tubes.

There was a few missing parts. I sent Van's an email this morning and was quite shocked to receive a response this afternoon stating they had put the order in and it should ship next week. Missing parts orders for the previous kits have required multiple emails and follow up phone calls.

I'd love to say I haven't spent every waking hour out there since the kit showed up yesterday afternoon, but that'd be a lie. Finished the inventory up about 10:30 last night and got the first page done today. :dunno:

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I'll be going back out after dinner...
 
Jim K said:
Annoyingly, the tires & tubes are Aero Classic. I'd rather have sourced them myself than use that garbage.
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:oops:
Mental note: Document in my plane manual to avoid Aero Classic tires.
 
I organized my shelves into part numbers, one “century” per shelf. 141___, 142___, and so on. It helped very little, but a little.

I think keeping the bags as numbered rather than subdividing by part would have been smarter than the latter. It’s easy to Ctrl-F the PDF of the inventory for a part number and get the bag number.
 
Jim K said:
Annoyingly, the tires & tubes are Aero Classic. I'd rather have sourced them myself than use that garbage. I'm sure the tires are fine, but I don't think I'll use the tubes.
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I deleted wheels and tires from the kit and ordered Beringer tubeless. So far I've been very happy with them. I was a bit jaded going into it, though, as I had just experienced three flats on the Arrow (including one at 5:15 p.m. on a Friday away from home and then the same one a week later requiring an overnight shipment in order to make it to Oshkosh my first time) and all three were the tube's fault.
 
Any way to return the tires and tubes to Vans for a partial refund? Or not worth the shipping?
 
WDD said:
Any way to return the tires and tubes to Vans for a partial refund? Or not worth the shipping?
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Hold onto the tubes and keep one of each (main, nose) in your flyaway kit. Tubes are one of those things that can strand you for a couple of days. I’ve got a buddy we’ve rescued twice because of tube failures. Hint: keep your tire pressure up to avoid sheared off valves.
 
They don't allow any deletions or substitutions in the first three kits since the bankruptcy. Trying to reduce their labor by building totally standardized kits. I didn't want to pony up for the Beringer setup, and I also like the idea of having standardized parts...I've had a couple flats on the road and you can find a 5x5 or 6x6 tire/tube almost anywhere.

kyleb said:
Hold onto the tubes and keep one of each (main, nose) in your flyaway kit.
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Another benefit of the -14 vs the -14A....33% reduction in flat tires ;)
 
Jim K said:
Annoyingly, the tires & tubes are Aero Classic. I'd rather have sourced them myself than use that garbage. I'm sure the tires are fine, but I don't think I'll use the tubes.
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Isn't Aero Classic the Desser house brand? If so, what's wrong with them? I've used their retread tires and tubes for a long time with excellent results. :dunno:

Or maybe I'm misremembering - It was whatever the Desser house brand was. No matter, when Desser was bought out their prices skyrocketed and I don't use them any more.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Isn't Aero Classic the Desser house brand? If so, what's wrong with them? I've used their retread tires and tubes for a long time with excellent results. :dunno:

Or maybe I'm misremembering - It was whatever the Desser house brand was. No matter, when Desser was bought out their prices skyrocketed and I don't use them any more.
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It does say desser on the tube. I don't remember that being the case in the past, but I could be wrong. My beef with Aero Classic is that I've had two of them, in two separate tires, develop pinholes for no reason. In both cases we could find no fault with the tire and a new tube lasted the remainder of the tire's life. If you look at the negative reviews on Spruce, it seems to be a common problem. @Lowflynjack had the same issue:

www.pilotsofamerica.com

Aero Classic Leakguards Review

So in the last two weeks, I've had people mention they had flats. Each time I asked them if it was an Aero Classic Leakguard tube. Both times it was. Both times, pinholes in the side of the tube. I've replaced at least 5 of these, on two different planes, all for pinholes in the sidewall...
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com

Aircraft tubes are stupidly overpriced. Easily the thing I'm most salty about in Aviation. I thought long and hard about the beringer wheels. Actually I'm second guessing myself again right now.
 
Jim K said:
If you look at the negative reviews on Spruce, it seems to be a common problem. @Lowflynjack had the same issue:
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Yep. It’s a shame that a company like Aircraft Spruce cares more about profit than selling good products. Based on the reviews alone, they should have stopped selling these tubes years ago.
 
Jim K said:
It does say desser on the tube. I don't remember that being the case in the past, but I could be wrong. My beef with Aero Classic is that I've had two of them, in two separate tires, develop pinholes for no reason. In both cases we could find no fault with the tire and a new tube lasted the remainder of the tire's life. If you look at the negative reviews on Spruce, it seems to be a common problem. @Lowflynjack had the same issue:
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Interesting. Never had a single issue with them myself.

That said, while I've never had an issue with tires on my Mooney, apparently tires are "my thing" when it comes to maintenance issues/incidents. I've had far more flat tires than I think I should have in 2900 hours! 172 main, 182 main, DA40 main, Citabria tail, and I think I might be missing one 'cuz I think I've had a nose tire go too.

That said, if I'm gonna have a thing, I'll take tires. I knew a guy who had had three different nose gear collapses in three different aircraft types during his career as a charter pilot!

Jim K said:
Aircraft tubes are stupidly overpriced. Easily the thing I'm most salty about in Aviation. I thought long and hard about the beringer wheels. Actually I'm second guessing myself again right now.
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Everything in aviation is stupidly overpriced... But tires are one of the things I no longer buy from the local shop 'cuz they're stupid expensive. I got new main tires and tubes for $97 and $90 each, respectively, from Wilkerson Aircraft Tires. I'll probably continue to use them unless they get bought out and jack prices like Desser did.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
But tires are one of the things I no longer buy from the local shop 'cuz they're stupid expensive. I got new main tires and tubes for $97 and $90 each, respectively, from Wilkerson Aircraft Tires.
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Interesting. Never heard of them. Last tires i bought were double that, and I buy the cheap ones. Id always heard that you shouldn't use retreads on a retract, but clearly you don't have an issue. The Lance's wheel wells are fairly close fitting since there's no door covering the tire. I think the mooney is the same way?
flyingcheesehead said:
apparently tires are "my thing" when it comes to maintenance issues/incidents. I've had far more flat tires than I think I should have in 2900 hours! 172 main, 182 main, DA40 main, Citabria tail
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I've had 5 on the lance in 750ish hours. The two aforementioned pinholes and one ripped valvestem (that was likely my fault for letting the pressure get low) that were all mercifully at home. More recently twice on the nose wheel in fairly short succession. Both were away from home; the second mechanic inspected the tire closely and found an exposed cord that had rubbed a hole in the tube. Unsure if that was a cause or a result of the first flat. Fortunately he had a decent used one to replace it.
 
Jim K said:
Id always heard that you shouldn't use retreads on a retract, but clearly you don't have an issue. The Lance's wheel wells are fairly close fitting since there's no door covering the tire. I think the mooney is the same way?
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I do have full doors (see below) but older Mooneys don't. I don't think there's any extra room there, but I've never had an issue with retreads. Retreads are really the way to go when it comes to aircraft tires, and I kinda think the "don't use them on retracts" is an OWT.

 
flyingcheesehead said:
Interesting. Never had a single issue with them myself.

That said, while I've never had an issue with tires on my Mooney, apparently tires are "my thing" when it comes to maintenance issues/incidents. I've had far more flat tires than I think I should have in 2900 hours! 172 main, 182 main, DA40 main, Citabria tail, and I think I might be missing one 'cuz I think I've had a nose tire go too.

That said, if I'm gonna have a thing, I'll take tires. I knew a guy who had had three different nose gear collapses in three different aircraft types during his career as a charter pilot!


Everything in aviation is stupidly overpriced... But tires are one of the things I no longer buy from the local shop 'cuz they're stupid expensive. I got new main tires and tubes for $97 and $90 each, respectively, from Wilkerson Aircraft Tires. I'll probably continue to use them unless they get bought out and jack prices like Desser did.
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+1 for Wilkerson. More people should know who they are for the quality and service they provide. Screw Desser.
 
Racerx said:
+1 for Wilkerson. More people should know who they are for the quality and service they provide. Screw Desser.
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10-15 years ago, Desser was like Wilkerson is now. All it takes for a good company to get ruined is for someone to come along looking to buy it out, or for the younger members of the family in a family business to decide they have no interest in aircraft tires or whatever so that the business goes up for sale or gets shut down.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
10-15 years ago, Desser was like Wilkerson is now. All it takes for a good company to get ruined is for someone to come along looking to buy it out, or for the younger members of the family in a family business to decide they have no interest in aircraft tires or whatever so that the business goes up for sale or gets shut down.
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It does look like there are some young members of the family already involved. Time will tell. For now, they've got my business. They're a bit old school. And it seems like word of mouth is the only advertising they have.
 
What are your go to tire brands ? Goodyear, Michelin?
 
WDD said:
What are your go to tire brands ? Goodyear, Michelin?
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Store brand retreads, every time.

Retreads are great for airplanes - Unlike cars, on an airplane you want a semi-soft sidewall to help absorb the landing, but you want a really tough tread to last through as many landings as possible since you're spinning the tire up from zero to holy crap in a fraction of a second and that will cause quite a bit of wear. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/april/15/whats-so-special-about-aircraft-tires
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Store brand retreads, every time.

Retreads are great for airplanes - Unlike cars, on an airplane you want a semi-soft sidewall to help absorb the landing, but you want a really tough tread to last through as many landings as possible since you're spinning the tire up from zero to holy crap in a fraction of a second and that will cause quite a bit of wear. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/april/15/whats-so-special-about-aircraft-tires
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Do the retreads have the same dimensions as a new tire? In RV world this is important because the wheel pants are close fitting and sized to fit new tires. I know folks that have bought Desser retreads and found out the hard way the wheel pants wouldn’t fit without modification.
 
tsts4 said:
Do the retreads have the same dimensions as a new tire? In RV world this is important because the wheel pants are close fitting and sized to fit new tires. I know folks that have bought Desser retreads and found out the hard way the wheel pants wouldn’t fit without modification.
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I've never had a problem with them being too big - And they say your gear will stick in the wells with retreads too. :rolleyes: I'm half convinced that it's an OWT. I wonder what the tolerances are for both original treads and retreads in real life.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I've never had a problem with them being too big - And they say your gear will stick in the wells with retreads too. :rolleyes: I'm half convinced that it's an OWT. I wonder what the tolerances are for both original treads and retreads in real life.
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Can't speak for any aircraft other than RVs, but it definitely can be an issue in the RV world depending on how close the builder trimmed the tire opening in the wheel pants during construction.
 
tsts4 said:
Can't speak for any aircraft other than RVs, but it definitely can be an issue in the RV world depending on how close the builder trimmed the tire opening in the wheel pants during construction.
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The other issue can be diameter. Install your wheel pants really low (small clearance to the top of the wheel pant) with smallish tires, and you can have interference if/when you move to slightly larger diameter retreads.
 
I had to trim my wheel pants when I replaced the originals with retreads. A reason to not paint!
 
Finished the firewall today. It's actually section 27, but i can't finish the previous sections until van's gets me the ribs they shorted me.

IMG_20251213_160225494_HDR.jpgIMG_20251213_160217526_HDR.jpg

Had a heckuva time with the rivets on this part. Not sure if it was the floppy metal or what. The rivets were also a bit on the long side which didn't help. I bet i drilled out and re did 25.

In other news, apparently there's a cherry rivet shortage. If you didn't know, cherry rivets are a structural blind (pulled) rivet with a locking steel core. Massively backordered everywhere. Van's has some, available only to those who are building, but with shipping they're 3x the cost of Spruce. Using a structural screw might also be an option

I dropped my wings off at the paint shop yesterday. He asked what color I wanted and proceeded to show me approximately 1000 paint chips. I think I'm going to go with a common GM color to make touch up paint easy.
 
so when someone sitting shotgun says "hey jim_k, firewall it!" you can say "I did, in post #627" :happydance:
 
Jim K said:
Finished the firewall today. It's actually section 27, but i can't finish the previous sections until van's gets me the ribs they shorted me.

View attachment 148081

In other news, apparently there's a cherry rivet shortage. If you didn't know, cherry rivets are a structural blind (pulled) rivet with a locking steel core. Massively backordered everywhere. Van's has some, available only to those who are building, but with shipping they're 3x the cost of Spruce. Using a structural screw might also be an option
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Do you need Cherrymax rivets? Depending on what you need, I might have some.
 
kyleb said:
Do you need Cherrymax rivets? Depending on what you need, I might have some.
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3213-4-2 specifically. I need two today, and four more at some point in the future.

I think I'm going to eventually need three 3212-4-3.
 
Jim K said:
Finished the firewall today. It's actually section 27, but i can't finish the previous sections until van's gets me the ribs they shorted me.

View attachment 148081View attachment 148082

Had a heckuva time with the rivets on this part. Not sure if it was the floppy metal or what. The rivets were also a bit on the long side which didn't help. I bet i drilled out and re did 25.

In other news, apparently there's a cherry rivet shortage. If you didn't know, cherry rivets are a structural blind (pulled) rivet with a locking steel core. Massively backordered everywhere. Van's has some, available only to those who are building, but with shipping they're 3x the cost of Spruce. Using a structural screw might also be an option

I dropped my wings off at the paint shop yesterday. He asked what color I wanted and proceeded to show me approximately 1000 paint chips. I think I'm going to go with a common GM color to make touch up paint easy.
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There's been a cherry rivet shortage. A factory that makes them burnt down in February...and that was after some were hard to come by
 
Jim K said:
I dropped my wings off at the paint shop yesterday. He asked what color I wanted and proceeded to show me approximately 1000 paint chips. I think I'm going to go with a common GM color to make touch up paint easy.
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Not going with @EdFred pink? :)
 
Jim K said:
….I dropped my wings off at the paint shop yesterday. He asked what color I wanted and proceeded to show me approximately 1000 paint chips. I think I'm going to go with a common GM color to make touch up paint easy.
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So metal flake is off the table then.
 
Racerx said:
There's been a cherry rivet shortage. A factory that makes them burnt down in February...and that was after some were hard to come by
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So that’s what happened. All I know is that I keep needing cherry rivets for the 310 this year and it’s hard to get them. I had to use most of my remaining supplies from the RV-14 build.

I checked and the cherry rivets I have left aren’t the right ones for Jim. Good luck!
 
iamtheari said:
So that’s what happened. All I know is that I keep needing cherry rivets for the 310 this year and it’s hard to get them. I had to use most of my remaining supplies from the RV-14 build.

I checked and the cherry rivets I have left aren’t the right ones for Jim. Good luck!
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It also explains the hardware bag that was backordered... it has cherry rivets in it. Guess i shouldn't hold my breath. I hope that doesn't bring my progress to a halt. I probably ought to look ahead and figure out what they're used for and start looking for friendly hoarders or alternate solutions. Looks like I need 25 cr3213-5-5s.
 
Jim K said:
It also explains the hardware bag that was backordered... it has cherry rivets in it. Guess i shouldn't hold my breath. I hope that doesn't bring my progress to a halt. I probably ought to look ahead and figure out what they're used for and start looking for friendly hoarders or alternate solutions. Looks like I need 25 cr3213-5-5s.
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Those probably attach some heavy structure to the bottom of the fuselage, thick chunks under the spar carry-through. I forgot they were that big but that’s the only place I recall pulling that many cherries. You may be able to pull them later as I think there are also AN470’s holding it all together.
 
iamtheari said:
Those probably attach some heavy structure to the bottom of the fuselage, thick chunks under the spar carry-through. I forgot they were that big but that’s the only place I recall pulling that many cherries. You may be able to pull them later as I think there are also AN470’s holding it all together.
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Yep. Bottom of the fuse. to the spar carrythrough. Looks like they might be exposed permanently so it won't be a show stopper. Do you remember if those are visible on the completed plane?

ETA: Actually Spruce has an expected ship date of Jan 6 on that size, so it may not be an issue at all. The 4s appear to be backordered for all eternity. I suppose that's a much more commonly used size.
 
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