Pretty cool update to Garmin Pilot

Garmin Pilot has a few really annoying dumb features, compared with ForeFlight. But it has come a long way. I have been using it mostly because it’s discounted due to my database subscription and because you have to subscribe to Pilot to use Database Concierge (the Windows database update software being one of the worst pieces of software I’ve used since WordPerfect). This new procedure chart presentation is long overdue and seems great at first glance (with some quirks to work out, like the profile view taking up nearly the whole screen on my iPhone). Basically it’s doing with TPPs what both apps have done with IFR en route charts (and, to a less awesome degree, VFR sectionals) for a long time.

What I also want to have is more programmatic use of the data that the app has at hand. Help me pick a route using airways that respect my personal ceiling. Filter arrivals (and transitions) by my aircraft capabilities. Things like that.

As far as using this new feature, here’s where I stand. I have been using my iPad mostly to plan and file, then in the cockpit its main function is for scratchpads. I use my in-panel charts for everything else. With this, the iPad is likely to come back to the forefront of flying procedures.
 
M20K said:
The Gov and Jepp Plates/Charts are the documentation from the creation of the Approach or whatever
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They really aren’t. The documentation from the creation of an approach is a Form 8260 and the design based on TERPS criteria. This link might not work: they tend to disappear after a while. It’s the “creation” document for the ILS 3 Y at my home base, KTTA. If you wanted to, you could fly an approach with only that document.

Unless you were very special, however, that would make no sense. So, Jepp and the FAA charting office create charts from the information in that form. And as the Jepp fans are quick to point out, the layout, format, location of information, and addition of non-regulatory information on the document differ in many ways. Most of the similarities are just decades of study and experimentation.

I really don’t see the Garmin offering to be any different than that. They even use the basic title/briefing strip/plan view/profile view/minimums motif chart designers throughout the world seem to have settled on.
 
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Plano Pilot said:
I am changing back to GP. Today we shot the RNAV to 25 at KMDD circle to 34. We had to maneuver some to make room for the airplanes in the 16 pattern. Thank you anyone in the pattern then. Landing on 34 we had 600 feet more usable runway, and the wind was close to 90 degrees across the runway. I really like the new way GP is displaying the plates.
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so did you see traffic on the new smart charts? I think someone asked that question earlier.........
 
M20K said:
I'm also assuming that in the latest release of Pilot there is still a section of Approach Plates and Enroute Charts and Garmin is not telling you that you don't need the Gov Plates or your subscription to Jepp... or am I wrong on that?
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Garmin makes a point of saying that in their introductory video. They are sufficient. You don’t “need” the government or Jepp charts in the app. But they are available if you want them you can set the SmartCharts or the regular charts as the default and toggle back and forth between them. As mentioned earlier, if you choose to overlay “the chart” on the Map page, it will be the FAA /Jepp one.

I don’t think anyone is going to dump the familiar look and feel of something they may have been using for years. And like most aviation tech, even most of those who want to use these as their default will need a significant transition period.
 
Noticed by some else. I checked and confirmed:

No timing table for approaches that require timing. Assumption of GPS (or DME) capability in the aircraft? Figure you can just calculate it easily? Something else?

I don’t see the app’s capability to identify the MAP or even time to the MAP calculation being sufficient from a regulatory perspective.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I just did an approach in X-Plane using it. Since it marks the location of where you will reach DA if on glideslope/path, the georeferenced profile view is very interesting.

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I was just getting ready to ask this question.. that is, is there a representation on the glidepath... sweet.....
 
midlifeflyer said:
There is but bear in mind that like the Plan View, it's the PFD indications which count.
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I could see some potential issues using the glide path plane representation if not careful. For example, which part of the plane represents where the plane actually is. e.g. the nose, center ?? The only use case I can think of would be in situational awareness intercepting the GP from below.
 
Hang 4 said:
I could see some potential issues using the glide path plane representation if not careful. For example, which part of the plane represents where the plane actually is. e.g. the nose, center ?? The only use case I can think of would be in situational awareness intercepting the GP from below.
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If you zoom in tight enough, the magenta line will be wider than the plane. Problem solved, even for a big plane like a Cessna 421.
 
After a number of flights with GP on X-Plane, I'm going to try GP in the airplane tomorrow. I'm going to try FF for the planning and enroute. I don't think you can beat FF's color coded bubbles which can be swiped down or re-arranged in an instant. I will switch to GP for the approaches. There really is nothing like GP for the SmartPlates. Except there are not SmartPlates to each approach. For KLNS, for example, the ILS08 is not educated like the RNAV approaches are. Even the VOR/DME is smart, if I recall. I don't know why some are smart and others are not. Maybe they will add them as time goes by.
 
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I guess I’ll be the Luddite for this thread. I’ve used GP for the last six years and have generally been happy with it. But after playing around with SmartCharts, it feels like a solution in need of a problem.

Are people really confused by the information presented in a standard FAA approach plate? For me, having the standard PDF procedure plate georeferenced in the main map page is optimal. I can visualize other traffic, the broader context of terrain and obstacles, and have ALL the approach data available without switching screens. I guess the profile view is nice, but then again that’s what my altimeter is for.

Anyway, just my current perspective. Maybe over time I’ll see the utility.
 
AlleyCat67 said:
Are people really confused by the information presented in a standard FAA approach plate?
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I think the biggest plus is with the SIDs and STARs. But there is also some improved clarity on the Approach Plates too. The biggest gain I've seen from the videos and other training info is the clarity you get by decluttering all the other non relevant options. (Non relevant after you've been given an entry/exit Fix, etc.)
 
AlleyCat67 said:
and have ALL the approach data available without switching screens.
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First, I don’t think you are a Luddite. The familiar is usually preferable to the new. It’s not really that long ago that the whole idea of getting rid of paper charts was a huge step rejected by many pilots. There are definitely going to be different strokes here.

But once given an ILS approach, yes, I can understand wanting to see that nearby thunderstorm cell and other traffuc (probably the two “enhancements” to the chart I’ve seen mentioned most, but do you really need to see the localizer and circling minimums?
 
midlifeflyer said:
First, I don’t think you are a Luddite. The familiar is usually preferable to the new. It’s not really that long ago that the whole idea of getting rid of paper charts was a huge step rejected by many pilots. There are definitely going to be different strokes here.

But once given an ILS approach, yes, I can understand wanting to see that nearby thunderstorm cell and other traffuc (probably the two “enhancements” to the chart I’ve seen mentioned most, but do you really need to see the localizer and circling minimums?
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What if the minimums change when you don't have a local altimeter or some equipment is OOS, like San Diego? Sure, those details appear on the notes somewhere, but if you're not familiar with the approach, or if you're trying to read the plate notes in a dark, shaking cockpit, or if you've been up all night, I think this would be invaluable. All of the information you need is somewhere, the AFD, the TERPS criteria, the chart notes or the charts themselves. The trick is to present the information in the most logical, focused and visible means possible. If your IFR briefing skills are immaculate , you are flying into airports well known to you, or the conditions are not challenging, you don't need the Smart Charts.
 
LWGII said:
What if the minimums change when you don't have a local altimeter or some equipment is OOS, like San Diego? Sure, those details appear on the notes somewhere, but if you're not familiar with the approach, or if you're trying to read the plate notes in a dark, shaking cockpit, or if you've been up all night, I think this would be invaluable. All of the information you need is somewhere, the AFD, the TERPS criteria, the chart notes or the charts themselves. The trick is to present the information in the most logical, focused and visible means possible. If your IFR briefing skills are immaculate , you are flying into airports well known to you, or the conditions are not challenging, you don't need the Smart Charts.
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What I see is smart charts reduces workload by presenting only the info you need when you need it. It’s evolutionary not revolutionary, but I can see at some point I’ll wonder how I ever got by without it, similar to when I ditched paper and went 100% EFB. That said, if I were a FF user, smart charts, as neat as it is probably wouldn’t be enough to entice me to switch from FF. I definitely wouldn’t pay for 2 EFB subscriptions for the privilege. I’ve been a GP user for over a decade, first because when I started using it back in the day they had an Android version (they still do but I switched to the iOS version years ago as Android is the GP stepchild as far as capability and doesn’t support smart charts btw) and because I have Garmin avionics in my plane so like having the same operating logic and buttonology.
 
LWGII said:
What if the minimums change when you don't have a local altimeter or some equipment is OOS, like San Diego? Sure, those details appear on the notes somewhere, but if you're not familiar with the approach, or if you're trying to read the plate notes in a dark, shaking cockpit, or if you've been up all night, I think this would be invaluable. All of the information you need is somewhere, the AFD, the TERPS criteria, the chart notes or the charts themselves. The trick is to present the information in the most logical, focused and visible means possible. If your IFR briefing skills are immaculate , you are flying into airports well known to you, or the conditions are not challenging, you don't need the Smart Charts.
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I don't think you are describing anything other than being unfamiliar with the use of the SmartChart and a personal preference for a traditional chart. The details you describe - equipment OTS, use of the published alternative altimeter setting - are a tap or two away with no panning or zooming needed to read it. (What is missing is the ability to adjust minimums based on NOTAM).

It's not about "need." It's about personal preference. No one "needs" Jepp charts domestically, but many prefer them (to the point of zealotry) because of the way they present information. Similarly, no one "needs" a SmartChart (or for that matter most EFB features including the very popular chart overlay on the Map). But there will be those who will prefer that chart format. I think I said earlier, that this introduction feels like a marketing survey.
 
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Does anyone know why some charts aren’t available in Smart Charts form (yet)? Example: KBIS ILS/LOC 13 is but ILS 31 is not.

I also noticed that the button to mark up the chart is absent for Smart Charts. It’s probably less useful there, as the chart is already highlighting relevant information (by omitting irrelevant information), but if you like drawing on approach plates you might dislike Smart Charts.
 
DNK, but the ILS-08 at KLNS is not a Smart Chart, but all the RNAVs are. Maybe it has something to do with the fact they're ILSs.
 
LWGII said:
DNK, but the ILS-08 at KLNS is not a Smart Chart, but all the RNAVs are. Maybe it has something to do with the fact they're ILSs.
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I remember seeing in one of the videos or articles that not all the charts had been converted yet and was still ongoing.
 
iamtheari said:
Does anyone know why some charts aren’t available in Smart Charts form (yet)? Example: KBIS ILS/LOC 13 is but ILS 31 is not.

…
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Looking at that chart, it’s actually pretty complex and my guess is Garmin went with what they considered an initial market validation release before devoting resources to all US approaches.

I would be interested to know if the KSKF ILS or LOC/DME Y 16 has a smart chart available for that approach and whether any other approaches at SKF are smart charts.
 
TCABM said:
Looking at that chart, it’s actually pretty complex and my guess is Garmin went with what they considered an initial market validation release before devoting resources to all US approaches.

I would be interested to know if the KSKF ILS or LOC/DME Y 16 has a smart chart available for that approach and whether any other approaches at SKF are smart charts.
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The STARs and DPs at KSKF look like they’re Smart Charted but none of the approaches appear to be.

One thing I caught with the KBIS example is that the name of the approach in Pilot differed from the name on the plate, whereas the ILS the other direction had matching names. My iPad isn’t handy to use to compare the two to see which complexities the ILS 31 has that the ILS 13 lacks but that could also factor in. Maybe Garmin started with an algorithm for low-hanging fruit and will revise it to catch the higher branches as they appear.
 
Several ILS’s round here are smarted but they were probably pretty dumb to begin with.
 
iamtheari said:
Does anyone know why some charts aren’t available in Smart Charts form (yet)? Example: KBIS ILS/LOC 13 is but ILS 31 is not.
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My thought is that it is an error. I don't remember then saying anything about it only being "some approaches." So shoot them an email and see what they say.
 
How do you get it to connect to an an L3 Lynx? Have a student that can't get GP to connect to the L3 unit. Android version.
 
iamtheari said:
Does anyone know why some charts aren’t available in Smart Charts form (yet)? Example: KBIS ILS/LOC 13 is but ILS 31 is not.
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There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. My local example is, my home base has two ILS approaches to the same runway. Substantially identical but the ILS Z is all based on ground navaids; the ILS Y requires GPS. The Y is SmartChart; the Z is not.

"Aha!" I thought. "They are prioritizing RNAV."

Then I saw a SmartChart for a local NDB approach.
 
I downloaded GP on my wife’s ipad and doing my second trial with it this year. Wife said I should just buy it, but I’ve got a year left on my current iFly sub.

So far, I like what I see and hope they continue to update approaches available with Smart Chart and also refine GP on the web.

This is the first iteration that’s had me really consider changing EFBs, and I’lo give them credit for that.
 
They are missing the step down altitude from our IAF to the FAF. I should probably point that out to them.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
They are missing the step down altitude from our IAF to the FAF. I should probably point that out to them.
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Ok I found the step down. Gotta scooolllll to the left because the leg between IAF and the FAF is one of the longest in existence.
 
You can
LWGII said:
For example, from

No Flight Plan
Tap to Edit

Tap on the bubble.

Add Origin Airport

Type KMTN

Add Destination Airport

Type KFDK

Click Routing

Review the Planned ATC Routing

There is no graphical depiction of the routes. There is no graphical depiction like there is in FF. In the above example, it's not a problem because there are few routes and they're all about the same. But with a complicated series of routes, and with some of the routes going out of the way, I like the ability to see where those routes are going and how far many total miles they are. I can't do that until I select a route, and when I do the the other options are lost.

I'm not saying that is a fatal flaw. On the Flight Plan page, the ATC routes are displayed. It's just something that I will have to work around.
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You can view them on the map, one at a time, but quick toggle them. If you're in map view, open up the bottom window and select "flight plan". From there, hit the routes button in that widget area, and select which you're wanting. It'll update on the map view. You can keep repeating that and see all the routes pretty quickly. You don't get to overlay multiple ones, but you can at least see them visually as you select. It's a lot better than doing it through the full flight plan screen where all you get is the selection table with no map.
 
Ine
NealRomeoGolf said:
Ok I found the step down. Gotta scooolllll to the left because the leg between IAF and the FAF is one of the longest in existence.
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One thing I noticed is that zoom level has an effect on which waypoint names are displayed in the plan view. Zoom out it disappears; zoom in and it appears. That’s seems to be a standard for digital EFB maps to keep clutter in check, but I’m not sure disappearing waypoints it’s a good idea for a chart that is supposed to focus on A specific approach
 
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but the feature is also available with slight UI differences for the iPhone. Click Details and scroll for the Coms, Brief, and Missed sections.
150dc5463274091ef4f8afb59eb5b65a.jpg
 
EdFred said:
Anyone?
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Since the thread is about SmartCharts, your question might be off-topic since they are not available on the Android version.

Sorry I can’t help with the question. My phone runs the Android version but I’ve never tried to connect it to an external ADS-B source.
 
I was pleasantly surprised when they opened it up to Stratux. Not surprised it won't connect to a competing brand gps.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
I was pleasantly surprised when they opened it up to Stratux. Not surprised the Android version it won't connect to a competing brand gps.
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FIFY. The iOS version connects to any GDL 90 device. The IOS version has a bigger list of compatible devices. My backup is an old XGPS 170D. It's not even in the compatible device list but works just fine with the iOS version of Pilot. I wrote to Garmin customer service abotu it and they informed my that any GDL 90 compatible device should work.

I actually don't know if it works with the Android version or not. @EdFred, have you asked Pilot support? Russ is very responsive.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
FIFY. The iOS version connects to any GDL 90 device. The IOS version has a bigger list of compatible devices. My backup is an old XGPS 170D. It's not even in the compatible device list but works just fine with the iOS version of Pilot. I wrote to Garmin customer service abotu it and they informed my that any GDL 90 compatible device should work.

I actually don't know if it works with the Android version or not. @EdFred, have you asked Pilot support? Russ is very responsive.
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No. I don't use GP. Student is new to the game so switching to iFly - which is better when comparing Android to Android - isn't undoing any sort of preference.

If Garmin has the Foreflight model of **** you, for not using Apple then **** them.
 
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