Mustang Mach-E

Velocity173 said:
Traded the Model X for a 2023 GTPE. So far so good.
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Velocity173 said:
Now I’ve got something that can be maintained by a local Ford dealer and a new 8 yr / 100,000 mile warranty.
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??

I haven't bought a car since 1996 so I'm pretty ignorant on how it works nowadays, but how do you get a ~3 yr old model with a "new 100,000 mi warranty"? Did it sit on the lot unsold for years, or is a "new full warranty" a thing now with used car sales, or ??
 
Velocity173 said:
Enjoyed the X but things were starting to fail
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The X is not for me. Too big. I do see the value in its utility. It must be great for parents with small children with those falcon wing doors. The doors are cool, but I would be afraid of technical problems with it. Same with the auto open/close driver's door. Many wonder why Tesla continues to build the S and X considering how few of them they sell compared to the Y and 3.

After a few weeks, I'd be interested in how your find the Ford's software as compared to Tesla's. Also, the navigation and trip planning with charging.

asicer said:
I wonder how they came up with that assessment.
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I'd guess its because of the much higher cost of the Model X as compared to the Mach E.

Velocity173 said:
Just as Ford is scaling back EVs.
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Ford, like the other legacy manufacturers, have not yet figured out how to build an EV profitably. They have tried to build them like they have built gasoline cars for decades but that produces a car that is far too expensive to produce. Ford is pivoting to a new EV platform that is designed as an EV from the ground up with a completely new manufacturing process. They hope that will result in lower cost EVs that can be profitable.

I think they might be onto something with their plans for the Lightning as an EREV. They'll have the torque and smooth power of an EV but with a gasoline generator to provide additional power for longer trips. That'll make it a fantastic choice for towing but still be mostly EV for daily driving.
 
Jim_R said:
??

I haven't bought a car since 1996 so I'm pretty ignorant on how it works nowadays, but how do you get a ~3 yr old model with a "new 100,000 mi warranty"? Did it sit on the lot unsold for years, or is a "new full warranty" a thing now with used car sales, or ??
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Oh, when I mean “new” I mean the manufacturers warranty that came with it when it was new. Technically I have 6 yrs and 91,700 miles (which ever comes first) remaining. Of course there’s other items outside of the batt / motors under a different warranty (5/60,000) as well. My Tesla was going out of warranty next month and while Battery failures are rare, I still wasn’t comfortable with a possible $22K expenditure in the near future.
 
Larry in TN said:
The X is not for me. Too big. I do see the value in its utility. It must be great for parents with small children with those falcon wing doors. The doors are cool, but I would be afraid of technical problems with it. Same with the auto open/close driver's door. Many wonder why Tesla continues to build the S and X considering how few of them they sell compared to the Y and 3.

After a few weeks, I'd be interested in how your find the Ford's software as compared to Tesla's. Also, the navigation and trip planning with charging.


I'd guess its because of the much higher cost of the Model X as compared to the Mach E.


Ford, like the other legacy manufacturers, have not yet figured out how to build an EV profitably. They have tried to build them like they have built gasoline cars for decades but that produces a car that is far too expensive to produce. Ford is pivoting to a new EV platform that is designed as an EV from the ground up with a completely new manufacturing process. They hope that will result in lower cost EVs that can be profitable.

I think they might be onto something with their plans for the Lightning as an EREV. They'll have the torque and smooth power of an EV but with a gasoline generator to provide additional power for longer trips. That'll make it a fantastic choice for towing but still be mostly EV for daily driving.
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Yeah I don’t have a family to haul around so the X wasn’t the best choice for me. But I like sitting up higher in a SUV vs a 3 or an S. I was really looking hard at the Y as well but I think the Mach E GTPE is the best all around crossover EV right now.

Tesla is going to beat it hands down for software and obviously FSD. There’s way more information you can get out of the X MCU vs my user interface (Sync 4). But, I’m really not big on FSD because I just don’t drive enough to want it. I don’t have a need for Super Chargers right now either but I did buy the adaptor to use NACS just in case.

Maybe in the future if Tesla comes out with a new design and a SC conveniently located near me, I might go back to Tesla. I think their fit, finish and reliability has really improved in recent years. The SCs need a serious overhaul though.
 
Velocity173 said:
Oh, when I mean “new” I mean the manufacturers warranty that came with it when it was new. Technically I have 6 yrs and 91,700 miles (which ever comes first) remaining. Of course there’s other items outside of the batt / motors under a different warranty (5/60,000) as well. My Tesla was going out of warranty next month and while Battery failures are rare, I still wasn’t comfortable with a possible $22K expenditure in the near future.
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Ah, gotcha--thanks!
 
Velocity173 said:
But I like sitting up higher in a SUV vs a 3 or an S.
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I recently did a two-hour demo drive in a new Model Y. I hadn't driven one before and the easier in/out of the taller car is attractive. I was surprised at how much bigger it is than my 3. Really noticed the difference when I pulled it into my garage. In the end, I decided that I'd rather stick to the sedan.

I'm not sure when I'll upgrade but am pretty sure it will be to another 3. The question now is go with an AI4 car or wait for AI5 in a couple of years. The faster computer, and more capable FSD software, would be the only reason to upgrade. The rest of the car still feels brand new at 4y3m old.
 
Velocity173 said:
The Mach E with GTPE upgrade is more sporty. It also has sound piped into the cabin but I think I prefer it with that off.
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It has what now???

Larry in TN said:
Ford, like the other legacy manufacturers, have not yet figured out how to build an EV profitably. They have tried to build them like they have built gasoline cars for decades but that produces a car that is far too expensive to produce. Ford is pivoting to a new EV platform that is designed as an EV from the ground up with a completely new manufacturing process. They hope that will result in lower cost EVs that can be profitable.
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It's very unfortunate that the other manufacturers stuck their heads in the sand for so long and refused to learn from Tesla. I also hope this news doesn't dissuade people from buying EVs... And I think it might come back to bite Ford eventually. A Ford PHEV was my "gateway drug" to the EV world, and it was a really well engineered vehicle. Ford would be at the top of my list for a non-Tesla EV. While I probably wouldn't have bought a Lightning as I have no use case for it, it was definitely a consideration if I get a travel trailer. Alas, I'll probably have to get the ol' steel triangle if that comes to pass.

Larry in TN said:
I think they might be onto something with their plans for the Lightning as an EREV. They'll have the torque and smooth power of an EV but with a gasoline generator to provide additional power for longer trips. That'll make it a fantastic choice for towing but still be mostly EV for daily driving.
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What's the difference between an "EREV" and a PHEV? There's definitely something to be said for a vehicle that has 50-100 miles of electric range plus an engine. The first-gen Volt had 35-38 mile electric range specifically because that would handle the round-trip commute for 95% of Americans, and allow them to do 90+% of their driving on electricity with only 10% of the battery capacity of a full EV.

I'm glad I had a PHEV to start with, but it merely showed me that I could do a full EV and also that I wanted to. PHEVs kind of went away (until now) a little quicker than I thought they should, but this feels like a pretty big regression right now.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It has what now???


It's very unfortunate that the other manufacturers stuck their heads in the sand for so long and refused to learn from Tesla. I also hope this news doesn't dissuade people from buying EVs... And I think it might come back to bite Ford eventually. A Ford PHEV was my "gateway drug" to the EV world, and it was a really well engineered vehicle. Ford would be at the top of my list for a non-Tesla EV. While I probably wouldn't have bought a Lightning as I have no use case for it, it was definitely a consideration if I get a travel trailer. Alas, I'll probably have to get the ol' steel triangle if that comes to pass.


What's the difference between an "EREV" and a PHEV? There's definitely something to be said for a vehicle that has 50-100 miles of electric range plus an engine. The first-gen Volt had 35-38 mile electric range specifically because that would handle the round-trip commute for 95% of Americans, and allow them to do 90+% of their driving on electricity with only 10% of the battery capacity of a full EV.

I'm glad I had a PHEV to start with, but it merely showed me that I could do a full EV and also that I wanted to. PHEVs kind of went away (until now) a little quicker than I thought they should, but this feels like a pretty big regression right now.
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It has “propulsion sound.” Basically like an electric V8 sound as you accelerate.
 
Velocity173 said:
It has “propulsion sound.” Basically like an electric V8 sound as you accelerate.
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Which, by the way, is not limited to electric cars. Plenty of gas cars pipe fake engine sounds in the cabin through the sound system. It became a thing as turbo V6s and I4s replaced larger engines.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What's the difference between an "EREV" and a PHEV?
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PHEV - is a Hybrid so it has two drivetrains - an electric drivetrain and an ICE drivetrain (transmission, differentials, etc etc). And either drivetrain can provide propulsion.

EREV - is an EV with a generator. So it drives via electric motors only. When the battery gets low, the generator will turn on and provide power for the electric drivetrain.
 
AV8R_87 said:
Which, by the way, is not limited to electric cars. Plenty of gas cars pipe fake engine sounds in the cabin through the sound system. It became a thing as turbo V6s and I4s replaced larger engines.
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Yup, Ford pipes fake V8 noises thru the stereo system on F150 ecoboost V6 models. MANY cars now do this.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What's the difference between an "EREV" and a PHEV?
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Mtns already posted the answer. You are still driving an EV, it just has a built-in gasoline charge station for longer trips. Should have a much longer BEV range than a PHEV, too.

Velocity173 said:
It has “propulsion sound.” Basically like an electric V8 sound as you accelerate.
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I've never liked that. I prefer cars that sound like what they are. I don't like the fake sounds.
 
Larry in TN said:
I've never liked that. I prefer cars that sound like what they are. I don't like the fake sounds.
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The federally mandated pedestrian safety sound below 25mph are all fake. No way around that.

But I do prefer the growling Porsche Taycan sound over the tin can Hyundai and Tesla sound.
 
My Camaro makes the fake engine noise, bout the dumbest thing an auto manufacturer could waste time on, atleast in the electrics you can turn it off.

I"m really digging that mach-e, just can't get past that ugly teslaish interior
 
I don’t care for the way the center display is mounted. I don’t know why all cars don’t stick to embedding it in the dash and tilting it towards the driver. That’s what my X had and it worked fine. I find myself leaning over to see the display properly. Taycan has the best EV exterior / interior…just way out of my price range.
 
Velocity173 said:
It has “propulsion sound.” Basically like an electric V8 sound as you accelerate.
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Bill said:
Yup, Ford pipes fake V8 noises thru the stereo system on F150 ecoboost V6 models. MANY cars now do this.
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That... is so incredibly dumb I'm not sure whether to :rofl: or :mad2:

Mtns2Skies said:
PHEV - is a Hybrid so it has two drivetrains - an electric drivetrain and an ICE drivetrain (transmission, differentials, etc etc). And either drivetrain can provide propulsion.

EREV - is an EV with a generator. So it drives via electric motors only. When the battery gets low, the generator will turn on and provide power for the electric drivetrain.
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Ah yes. Like the i3 REx.

Larry in TN said:
Mtns already posted the answer. You are still driving an EV, it just has a built-in gasoline charge station for longer trips. Should have a much longer BEV range than a PHEV, too.
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Yeah, ick... At least the way I've seen it: The i3 REx had roughly 100 mile range originally, and the range extender was a BMW motorcycle engine that couldn't actually put out enough power through the generator to keep the car at highway speeds, it'd slow down into the 50s unless you reprogrammed the car to enable an option to turn on the range extender immediately instead of when the battery was mostly depleted. That was due to CARB rules that wouldn't have considered it an EV at all had they left that option enabled as they did on the European variants. Dumb.

I wonder what the relative efficiency is of current EREV technology vs a PHEV with a longish electric range. It seems that if you're looking for motive power, letting the engine drive the wheels via the transmission may be more efficient than going engine -> genset -> motor -> wheels, but it would depend on the efficiency of the engine at the different operating points as well as friction losses and the various conversion efficiencies. Anyone know what the answer is with today's tech?

asicer said:
The federally mandated pedestrian safety sound below 25mph are all fake. No way around that.

But I do prefer the growling Porsche Taycan sound over the tin can Hyundai and Tesla sound.
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I like that I can't hear my car when it's going forward... And I like my spaceship when it's in reverse. :)
 
Velocity173 said:
I don’t care for the way the center display is mounted.
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I this I prefer my car's horizontal screen, but I've never driven one with a vertical screen, so I'll reserve judgement. The large volume knob at the bottom looks like a nice feature but I've seen some criticism of it. What do you think of it?

flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah, ick
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I'm assuming that Ford will do a good job with it. If not, then, yeah, ick.

flyingcheesehead said:
I like that I can't hear my car when it's going forward... And I like my spaceship when it's in reverse.
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I like that, too. I like that when I do accelerate quickly it doesn't attract any attention.
 
I may just be getting old, but i feel the dashboard of modern cars was just a bout perfect, had the right mix of buttons vs screens etc.... hell my current cars are so sorted, you rarely have to take your hands off the steering wheel. absolutely love my cars with HUDS, I have no idea why someone would decide to hang a 30 inch monitor right in the middle of the dashboard
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I wonder what the relative efficiency is of current EREV technology vs a PHEV with a longish electric range. It seems that if you're looking for motive power, letting the engine drive the wheels via the transmission may be more efficient than going engine -> genset -> motor -> wheels, but it would depend on the efficiency of the engine at the different operating points as well as friction losses and the various conversion efficiencies. Anyone know what the answer is with today's tech?
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This was Honda’s solution for their Clarity PHEV.

50932648167_c2f2e921fa_c.jpg


Note: the middle left was the only mode where the engine directly drove the front wheels, and it only occurred at certain speed/load combinations. Complicated, to be sure, but reasonably transparent in use.
 
I liked my experience in the one I was in. Best Mustang out there in my opinion.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I like that I can't hear my car when it's going forward... And I like my spaceship when it's in reverse. :)
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If you can't hear it then maybe you should schedule a service appointment. And after that's done, schedule one for the car as well :)
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asicer said:
If you can't hear it then maybe you should schedule a service appointment. And after that's done, schedule one for the car as well :)
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Depends on what year the car was manufactured. The PWS began to be installed during the 2020 model year.

The slow-forward sound is different, and less obvious from instead the car, than the reverse sounds. Many drivers might not realize it is there.
 
Larry in TN said:
I like that, too. I like that when I do accelerate quickly it doesn't attract any attention.
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A Tesla owner here in Wisconsin got out of a ticket - I forget what the offense was called, but it was something to do with accelerating very quickly. They went and looked up whatever the "federal register" equivalent would be that explained the reasoning behind passing the law in the first place, and it was because of noise. Judge threw out the ticket because no noise was made.

NJP_MAN said:
I liked my experience in the one I was in. Best Mustang out there in my opinion.
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:rofl: That's gonna ruffle some feathers!

Kinda like that one time I said "I'm gonna **** off some people on the Internet later, but first I'm gonna throw this cast iron pan in the dishwasher." :rofl:

asicer said:
If you can't hear it then maybe you should schedule a service appointment. And after that's done, schedule one for the car as well :)
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:rofl:

I *can* hear it, but only when pulling into my garage or otherwise driving right next to something that can reflect the sounds back at me, even with the window open. It's kind of like a really distant static, so it isn't bothersome at all.
 
Larry in TN said:
I this I prefer my car's horizontal screen, but I've never driven one with a vertical screen, so I'll reserve judgement. The large volume knob at the bottom looks like a nice feature but I've seen some criticism of it. What do you think of it?


I'm assuming that Ford will do a good job with it. If not, then, yeah, ick.


I like that, too. I like that when I do accelerate quickly it doesn't attract any attention.
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I don’t see much use with the knob. Some really like it because they’re not big on touch screen controls for fan & volume. To me you still have to select fan or volume on the screen just to use the knob anyway. Not a big selling point.

I’m still a fan of stalks over steering wheel or screen control. Also like having an instrument cluster in front of me. All that stuff has never been a deal breaker with me over Tesla though.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I wonder what the relative efficiency is of current EREV technology vs a PHEV with a longish electric range. It seems that if you're looking for motive power, letting the engine drive the wheels via the transmission may be more efficient than going engine -> genset -> motor -> wheels, but it would depend on the efficiency of the engine at the different operating points as well as friction losses and the various conversion efficiencies. Anyone know what the answer is with today's tech?
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This is generally true and why GM stuck some mechanical interconnect into the Volt.

The big error that I see happening with some early product announcements is trying to have a lot of EV range - requiring some larger pile of expensive batteries that make pure EVs too costly for many people - in some attempt to fluff up a BS total range number. I expect that all these numbers will fall as the products get closer to production and the spinchter tightening of trying to make margins really sets in.

There's really no reason you can't call an EREV a PHEV. It's kind of a marketing hand wave to try to differentiate without trying to explain powertrain topology to the masses. There are going to be a lot of EREVs that 18-24 months ago would have been called series PHEV.
 
Three weeks of ownership. Things I like over my MX. More sporty handling. Just better regen all around. Actually adds miles to my range and you can feel it taking advantage of hills and engaging harder regen. Also think it’s much more efficient. I’ll need to do some range tests to confirm though. Styling is nicer and fit and finish is better. Gauge cluster.

Things Tesla M X does better than the MME. Just all around better software. App is way better. Bigger battery (100kwh) so more range. Even though I’m not a super charger guy, way better charging rates and much more reliable than all the other systems out there. Note, I did buy a NACS adapter to use SCs. No start/stop button…just get in and go. Prefer the stalk to switch gears (P,D,R) over a lower console dial. I miss the power doors. Step on the brake, and the door shuts automatically. Satellite navigation maps are nice.

A lot of those differences are 1st world problems but still issues non the less.
 
I test drove two Mach-E's today, the GT and the not GT. I liked them both, but I thought the non GT would have been quicker than it was. I was kind of disappointed. The GT was much better in that regard. The Blue Chew, I mean Blue Cruise worked awesome, better than the autopilot in my BMW. I really liked the full hands off driving at 80 MPH. I thought it was the right size, more SUV like than a sedan, but didn't feel top heavy like a lot of SUV's do these days. Tried the one pedal driving, I really liked that too, but will take a little to get used to.

I still want to drive the BMW iX, but it is about $40k more than the Mach-E. I love BMW's, but not sure it would be worth it. Also not 100% sold on the EV concept, but getting there.

If I get either of them, it will be a lease. I'm not particularly comfortable buying an EV at this point.
 
Groundpounder said:
Not sure. Are there a lot of differences between the MY's?
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I'm not sure either. I think I've seen articles but nothing definite. One thing that might be is the shifter moving to a steering wheel stalk (away from the dial)
 
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