Let's build a panel

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Hector Parra, Apr 11, 2022.

  1. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    I'm bored guys. Let's build a panel together. I was thinking either a PA-28 or a C-172 but open to suggestions. I will add the suggested instruments to the template. I prefer steam gauges, but we can add glass if you want. I was also thinking "Light" IFR but maybe we can do a VFR and an IFR panel for the same plane.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Illinois

    Display name:
    NRG
    Ok I'll start with the center stack. PS Engineering 450B and a Garmin 750 Xi with a Garmin GTR255A as second Com. Throw in a GTX345 (go remote if you want) for the transponder.
     
    mscheuer likes this.
  3. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,819

    Display name:
    asicer
    Gotta reserve some space for a GFC500 in that stack, too.
    Garmin G3x gives you the option of both glass and steam (in a way):
    [​IMG]
     
    Whitney likes this.
  4. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    29,645
    Location:
    Michigan

    Display name:
    White Chocolate
    Non-Garmin on the transponder/ADS-B so you have more than 2 options with your EFB.
     
    Darryl Snover likes this.
  5. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,819

    Display name:
    asicer
    Nothings says you can't have more than one ADSB-In. If you really have to have something for your EFB, just toss a Stratus/Stratux somewhere in addition to the GTX345. But if you've got TIS-B/FIS-B on the GTN750 and the G3x MFD and the G3x PFD inset, why bother?
     
  6. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    Noted. I'll start adding stuff. Should we go with the PA-28 or C-172?
     
  7. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Illinois

    Display name:
    NRG
    Low wings are always better.
     
    eman1200, Tantalum and EdFred like this.
  8. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Illinois

    Display name:
    NRG
    Yes, how silly of me.
     
  9. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    mscheuer likes this.
  10. Patrick

    Patrick Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Europe

    Display name:
    Pat
    My vote is for GFC on top, like an airliner style AP MCP.
     
    Tantalum likes this.
  11. Patrick

    Patrick Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Europe

    Display name:
    Pat
    For PA28:

    Left:

    G3X PFD/MFD/EIS split view

    Center:
    GFC500 controller
    GNC355A
    GPS175
    GNC255A

    Right:

    G3X PFD/MFD/EIS splitview

    Anywhere: Non Garmin Independent backup Att. Ind. (If that’s possible, or does the GFC500 require a G5 in spite of the G3X?). Obviously a remote transponder (possible?).
     
  12. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    Looks like this. Let's call it a "Light IFR" panel. I've added an Uavionix AV-30 as a non Garmin backup, awaiting confirmation from someone if it will "talk" with the GFC500.

    upload_2022-4-13_10-50-7.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022
    Whitney and Tantalum like this.
  13. Patrick

    Patrick Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Europe

    Display name:
    Pat
    Awesome job!

    Can you do the G3X in splitview showing PFD/MFD (map)/EIS? Perhaps like this:

    https://res.garmin.com/en/products/...S-v2-7109c79a-9d5b-4dfc-99a4-b033962b83e1.png



    The SBY ATT should have independent backup battery power, shouldn’t (!!!) be connected to anything else e.g. Garmin BUS/ARINC/SERIAL (and best be only an ATT ind. and no ASI/ALT).

    As little as this makes sense, it’s great fun ;)
     
    Whitney and Tantalum like this.
  14. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    I'm using a panel design portal called hangarflying.com and unfortunately the splitview option is not available. You just search for an specific item and then drag and drop it on the panel template
     
  15. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,819

    Display name:
    asicer
    Control inputs should be near your hands and displays near your eyes. Therefore, I prefer GFC at the bottom near your throttle hand and the top of the GTN aligned with the top of the G3x.

    Pretty sure it cannot. A GI275 would look pretty sweet, though.
    The G5/GI275 has a failover feature whereby it can take over GFC500 in case of a G3x failure. As much as I am with you on independent systems, this is enough of a feature that I'd forgo the independence. Plus, I'm pretty sure Garmin won't allow anything else to back up the G3x for IFR.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022
  16. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,703

    Display name:
    Albany Tom
    If it were mine, I'd add a manual airspeed indicator and altimeter on the left, just to make it easier and a bit safer to land if all the electronic stuff goes out and it's VFR.
     
    Hector Parra and Randomskylane like this.
  17. Brad W

    Brad W Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    NE Florida

    Display name:
    BLW2
    I'm old school..it's gotta have an ADF :)
     
  18. Brad W

    Brad W Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    NE Florida

    Display name:
    BLW2
    unless it's raining when you land...or a few other reasons but that's the best one.
     
  19. Patrick

    Patrick Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Europe

    Display name:
    Pat
    You’ve got a point there. Wondering if „up straight ahead“ would be a better position for IMC / anti-vertigo? Except for Cirrus, the other manufacturers went with an MCP style AP interface on top of the glareshield.

    A34E37D2-3906-4DC4-830D-D71AC75E86B8.jpeg 387D96EF-62A8-4450-ABAF-034BD777726C.jpeg 743B7BB6-5F38-4CDD-9CF6-C2B1AB66AF2C.jpeg D058865C-DDDB-44E6-9948-83DFF1BEB730.jpeg
     
  20. Randomskylane

    Randomskylane Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    395

    Display name:
    Randomskylane
    Gfc500 autopilot seems like overkill - isn’t there a market norm for avionics like, say, 35-40% of total value

    Did I miss the engine monitor? Yes I need 100k of shiny new stuff just kidding before
     
  21. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    7,977
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK

    Display name:
    stewartb
    G3X Touch. One and done. Remote comm, remote Txp w/ ADS-B out, remote GDL for ADS-B in, autopilot, full engine monitoring and fuel management, AOA. I have round gauges in my Cessna. I like the G3X better.


    8FF47649-9262-4BB2-8EC9-6D03F4668DA7.jpeg
     
    Hector Parra likes this.
  22. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    So, Light IFR looks like this. The Price you see to the right is just the hardware. Off course we're missing switches, breakers, remotely installed stuff and installation costs among other things.

    upload_2022-4-14_10-24-2.png

    Hard VFR, like this:
    upload_2022-4-14_10-28-2.png

    Sorry @Brad W I couldn't find an ADF. @Albany Tom Just a random location I chose to the left, but there they are. @asicer there's your 275 too. For budgeting purposes maybe we can get rid of one screen and add an Ipad with Foreflight or something like that. And we're also missing an Engine Monitor as @Randomskylane noted. The G3X can cover that, but if we want a dedicated instrument, I was thinking on a horizontal EDM from JPI Instruments, but there's not much available space. Maybe a digital round gauge form MGL Avionics
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
    Albany Tom and woywoyboy like this.
  23. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    Great panel there. The only thing I don't love (But I can live with that) is the CO detector as an sticker and not as an instrument or handheld device. The yellow dot can be easily contaminated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
  24. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    29,645
    Location:
    Michigan

    Display name:
    White Chocolate
    Why you putting all that money in a PA28?
     
  25. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    I'm not, just wanted to do a group exercise. I'm with you, is ridiculously high for the plane and we're still missing installation costs.
     
  26. WDD

    WDD En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    4,714
    Location:
    Atlanta / KRYY

    Display name:
    Vintage Snazzy (so my adult children say)
    Panel.png This is the perfect panel. You're welcome.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
    mscheuer and Hector Parra like this.
  27. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    9,071

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    This is cool, great idea Hector

    The group here sure loves glass! Don't get me wrong, it's cool, but a big square sort of limits your flexibility and freedom to customize your plane and not have it look like every other Garmin Glass plane out there. If we are going 'light IFR' and more budget sensitive (sorta) I like what WDD above me did. The difference is I'd put the AP on top, like how the big boys do it. It also makes more ergonomical sense to me

    I don't like big empty panel spots either so I'd vote putting a basic set of instruments on that side too, budget AI and HSI.. OR.. a mount to semi-permanently install an iPad. Having the iPad on your knee, yoke, or suction cupped is not ideal, why not use up the big blank?
     
    Hector Parra likes this.
  28. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    Yup, I'm actually with you and @WDD on this. I'll only update the vacuum system instrument (dual G5's or uAvionics AV-30) and I'll love to have an engine monitor screen. I'm still not decided on my "forever" plane, but the finalists are:

    Beech Sierra C24R

    upload_2022-4-14_19-58-11.png
    And the Mooney 20J

    upload_2022-4-14_19-59-51.png

    Both panels are still a WIP
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
    mscheuer and Tantalum like this.
  29. Brad W

    Brad W Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    NE Florida

    Display name:
    BLW2
    ahh, that's ok. I heard a nasty rumor that there's not much out there for their needles to point to anyway. But thanks for trying.
     
  30. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    9,071

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    Mooney for the win!
     
    Hector Parra likes this.
  31. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    12,357
    Location:
    FL

    Display name:
    Salty
    Just as an fyi, those prices are very unrealistic and don’t include install costs. I recently got a quote for a panel very close to the bottom one. It was over $100,000 for the gear, panel work, and autopilot install.
     
  32. wheaties

    wheaties Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    NJ

    Display name:
    wheaties
    Chiming in with @Salty, i am getting quotes of ~30k for a G3X w/ G5 backup on a certified plane and ~20k for Aspen 1000 + STEC integration. For primary engine monitor I'm getting 13-15k depending on options on a JPI 900, I have a 700 w/ FF.

    so yeah, labor and those hidden boxes add up fast, especially engine monitors. Those things cost 1.5x in labor.
     
  33. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    Yup, I mentioned it. Is for hardware only. With install costs, you're basically buying another plane. So Youtuber's are either rich or getting insane rebates. Many are doing it recently.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
  34. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2022
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada

    Display name:
    Hector Parra
    Wow, had no idea about engine monitors being that labor intensive. But it makes sense now that I think about it.
     
  35. wheaties

    wheaties Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    NJ

    Display name:
    wheaties
    @Hector Parra, yeah i went from a "must have 900" to a "upgrade to 830 sounds fine to me" real fast. My primary needles are next to useless but the MP and RPM are just fine. So i could, if i wanted,, just deal with the 700 fkr the next few years.
     
  36. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,819

    Display name:
    asicer
    Looks like you're missing an IFR clock.
     
  37. WDD

    WDD En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    4,714
    Location:
    Atlanta / KRYY

    Display name:
    Vintage Snazzy (so my adult children say)
    Which is partly why I lean to "steam glass". The panel I suggested I think would cost around $50 - $70k all in. If I put in some G3's it would be higher. I also tried to have some scalability. In the future you could take out the steam gauges, put in a single G3, and move the three G275's between the center and the new G3.
     
  38. Racerx

    Racerx En-Route

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,813

    Display name:
    Ernie
    Upgrading the lance? Had enough with the Aspen?
     
  39. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    12,357
    Location:
    FL

    Display name:
    Salty
    I got a quote before I bought the lance.

    I picked up a used dynon hdx at sun n fun. The whole package. Got a super deal. The plan is to install it someday. Not in a rush.

    my issue is Aspen and stec both seem to be never ending money sucks. Even worse than garmin IMO. There always seems to be another upgrade you need to get it to actually do what it advertises. Stec wants 15k to upgrade the 55x to the 3100 and add a yaw damper. That’s using the existing servos. And I have to send in the servos to be modified, so the plane is down for who knows how long. And it’s a 9 month wait for parts. I can buy a brand new garmin for that much money and there’s only the wait for parts, not an additional wait for servos to be modified, and the plane can fly while I wait.

    to get the Aspen to play with the stec is another 3.5k, but if I do that now, it’s another 4K if I upgrade to the 3100 because it’s a different integration, so I either don’t upgrade the. 55x, or wait to integrate the Aspen until I upgrade the 3100, or pay twice.

    so, I’m looking to get away from both of them eventually, but they are working fine and I’m in no hurry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
  40. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    4,000

    Display name:
    Ari
    I don't like permanent iPad mounts in the panel, because they lock you into the specific iPad model they were designed for. I'd rather have a RAM mount so I can upgrade the iPad without touching the panel. But I'll be watching this thread for better ideas for blank copilot panel space.
     
    WDD likes this.