BasicMed doc needed--Monterey/Santa Cruz CA area

EVERYBODY... I've sort of dropped this thread, but just happened to skim through some of the posts here from the last couple of weeks....

So do you guys really think "Capt Bob" is really that oblivious to the fact he's wrong? And if he is, why are you bothering? :D I'm sort of thinking he's ****ed at the FAA and and the airport and just jerking all of your chains! :p
 
Half Fast said:
Some, but not all, SIs require actions (like periodic testing) in order to remain in force during the period the medical is active. Failure to maintain the SI until the medical expires can cause the medical to be revoked. That would eliminate the Basic Med option.
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Hypothetically, could someone in that situation voluntarily surrender his medical certificate and maintain BasicMed eligibility?

Tim
 
timrb said:
Hypothetically, could someone in that situation voluntarily surrender his medical certificate and maintain BasicMed eligibility?

Tim
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I don’t believe so. I believe if you “surrender” it, they revoke it. I think you have to let it expire on its own, but @Brad Z can tell you for sure.
 
My dollar bet is on having to let the medical expire, then the SI if it has any time on it / not synced to the medical.
 
jayhawk74 said:
You can let your SI lapse and still get Basic Med. You just can’t have your SI get revoked. I have a SI which has to be renewed yearly if I want to keep my Medical. AOPA informed me, and I read the reg to confirm, that once I don’t renew my Medical, and let the SI lapse, I can get Basic Med. The reason is that the Medical and SI were both current and neither were revoked,
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Yeah, I was told that I must let the Class 3 expire first, whilst the SI is still "active", then not renewing the SI. Devilish details, which could be spelled out in one place, in few words, but ain't.
We'll see which direction I want to go in a year.
 
kenny, you understand correctly
timrb, not happening in Cap'n Bob's situation.
 
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Imagine a world where forum posts could trigger cogscreen requirements.

I suppose we'd all be cooked then :D But some before others.
 
timrb said:
Not sure I understand what you're saying, or maybe you have an unusual situation. In general, a pilot is eligible for BasicMed or MOSAIC even if his special issuance medical certificate expires, just as long as the SI authorization is not withdrawn.

Tim
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And the window to withdraw an unexpired Authorization for Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate closes once the underlying medical certificate times out AND the airman does not have an application pending. The longer duration of the unexpired Authorization is for internal administrative purposes to aid the Office of Aerospace Medicine in issuing interim medical certificates. Letter to Lorelei Peter, FAA Chief Counsel, from Ricardo Domingo, Executive Director, Flight Standards Service, dated Oct 12th, 2018.
 
captainbobwalsh said:
the FAA still has the authority to pursue enforcement action if there is evidence that the pilot does not meet the medical certification standards for that medical certificate.
The FAA always has the authority to pursue enforcement action on anyone if there is residents that the pilot does not meet the medical standards of that certificate including basic med. The question is how do they go about doing that legally? The answer is through an Emergency Order.
a. Criteria for Emergency Action.


(1) Emergency action is taken only when: (i) the certificate holder lacks qualifications; there is a reasonable basis to question whether the certificate holder is qualified to hold the certificate; or the certificate holder does not comply with statutory or regulatory requirements to cooperate with the FAA; and (ii) the certificate holder is reasonably able to exercise the privileges of the certificate.

(1) Enforcement counsel does not allege a lack of qualifications to avoid dismissal of charges under the NTSB’s stale complaint rule.

(2) If FAA personnel know that a certificate holder lacking qualifications is unable to exercise the privileges of the certificate, enforcement counsel issues a notice proposing certificate action in accordance with the notice procedures in paragraphs 14 and 15, below. For example, enforcement counsel issues a notice proposing certificate action if the certificate holder is imprisoned. But for the circumstance discussed in paragraph 13.a.(3), below, enforcement counsel generally issues a notice proposing certificate action involving the revocation of a pilot certificate when the certificate holder is required to but does not hold or is medically incapable of
exercising the privileges of a valid medical certificate. In those circumstances, enforcement counsel notifies the Aerospace Medical Certification Division (AAM-300) to flag the certificate holder’s medical certification file and to advise counsel immediately if a new medical certificate is issued to the airman. If a medical certificate is subsequently issued to the airman, enforcement counsel issues an emergency order to replace the notice.

(3) Emergency action is appropriate when the holder of a pilot certificate who lacks qualifications to hold that certificate and is required to, but does not, hold a valid medical certificate operates an aircraft. In addition, emergency action is appropriate when the holder of a pilot certificate who lacks qualifications to hold that certificate has met the medical education and examination requirements for operating certain small aircraft without an airman medical certificate under 14 C.F.R. part 68.
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At the time, you held an unexpired Authorization for Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate with a valid medical certificate issued under that Authorization. Special Issuance Medical Certificates are different in that the FAA can, at any time, require that you submit medical information to aid them in determining whether you are eligible for your Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate. If you fail to present the medical information they ask for within the time prescribed, they have the authority to withdraw your Authorization. You failed to submit the requested information within the prescribed time period. They were well within their authority to withdraw your Authorization.

The withdrawal of the Authorization letter invalidates the underlying medical certificate, which you were then required to surrender to the agency, as per your withdrawal letter.

captainbobwalsh said:
My Medical has never been denied by any FAA doctor. I have never received an emergency order from the FAA.
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You received a letter from the FAA withdrawing your Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate for failing to comply with 14 CFR §67.401(f)(4). That withdrawal action invalidates the medical certificate and, in accordance with §61.23(c)(3)(iii), revokes your BasicMed eligibility. In that letter, you were also ordered to surrender all unexpired medical certificates issued under that withdrawn Authorization.

The agency overrides the issuing AME. The agency withdrew your Authorization, which invalidated your medical certificate.

You received the letter requiring additional information. You thought you'd be slick, get BasicMed, then walk away from the SI. That's where you ****ed up. You cannot do that when there's a pending request for information. Only once you have resolved that request for information and the agency has determined you were eligible, can you then walk away from the SI once the medical certificate is expired and continue to operate on BasicMed.
 
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WDD said:
My dollar bet is on having to let the medical expire, then the SI if it has any time on it / not synced to the medical.
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That is exactly how it works, according to the Domingo interp issued from the FAA Chief Counsel.

"Authorizations often have a longer duration than the associated special issuance medical certificate. These longer durations are for internal FAA administrative purposes and aid the Office Aerospace Medicine with the processing of special issuance medical certificates under § 67.401. The Authorization's longer duration period conveys no independent medical privilege as evidenced by the requirement for an airman to demonstrate that he remains qualified for a new special issuance medical certificate when the current special issuance medical certificate expires. As such, an airman's responsibility to comply with the terms of an unexpired Authorization - including a term that requires regular submission of medical information - terminates when the associated special issuance medical certificate expires. Because there is no reasonable basis for requiring an airman in those circumstances to provide medical information that is not needed for determining medical certification under§ 67.401,the FAA would not have a basis to withdraw the Authorization."
 
jayhawk74 said:
You can let your SI lapse and still get Basic Med. You just can’t have your SI get revoked. I have a SI which has to be renewed yearly if I want to keep my Medical. AOPA informed me, and I read the reg to confirm, that once I don’t renew my Medical, and let the SI lapse, I can get Basic Med. The reason is that the Medical and SI were both current and neither were revoked,
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You can get BasicMed even while your special issuance medical certificate is still valid (you can have both). However, you are bound to compliance with the terms of the Authorization until the medical certificate times out. Only then can you walk away from the SI altogether.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Yeah. Like a "flat earther", Cap'n Bob tends to prove the earth is round with his evidence. I find it funny, as I'm in the same situation: if I let my SI lapse my medical is invalidated, and BM is off the table, as is MOSAIC.
It's sooooo simple, even a caveman can do it.
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You are only bound to the terms of your Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate for as long as the underlying medical certificate is valid. If the underlying medical certificate is timed out AND you do not have an application for a medical certificate pending, you can walk away from the SI and continue flying on BasicMed or MOSAIC.

Now the caveat is that you will want to, upon the expiring of your medical certificate, notify your AME in writing that you will not be seeking a medical certificate at this time, and that you hereby revoke any and all prior authorizations to share your protected health information with any entities outside of their practice. That will (hopefully) prevent a "helpful Hannah" in the practice from sending something into the agency and inadvertently triggering a reapplication.
 
Lindberg said:
The first sentence literally says they are withdrawing your Authorization for Special Issuance.

And you claim to be legally operating under Basic Med. 14 CFR § 61.23(c)(3) is what authorizes pilots to operate under Basic Med. Here it is in full:

=====

(c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license.
. . .
(3) A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while operating under the conditions and limitations of § 61.113(i) must meet the following requirements—

(i) The person must—

(A) Comply with all medical requirements or restrictions associated with his or her U.S. driver's license;

(B) At any point after July 14, 2006, have held a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter;

(C) Complete the medical education course set forth in § 68.3 of this chapter during the 24 calendar months before acting as pilot in command or serving as a required flightcrew member in an operation conducted under § 61.113(i) and retain a certification of course completion in accordance with § 68.3(b)(1) of this chapter;

(D) Receive a comprehensive medical examination from a State-licensed physician during the 48 calendar months before acting as pilot in command or serving as a required flightcrew member of an operation conducted under § 61.113(i) and that medical examination is conducted in accordance with the requirements in part 68 of this chapter; and

(E) If the individual has been diagnosed with any medical condition that may impact the ability of the individual to fly, be under the care and treatment of a State-licensed physician when acting as pilot in command or serving as a required flightcrew member of an operation conducted under § 61.113(i).

(ii) The most recently issued medical certificate—

(A) May include an authorization for special issuance;

(B) May be expired; and

(C) Cannot have been suspended or revoked.

(iii) The most recently issued Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate cannot have been withdrawn; and

(iv) The most recent application for an airman medical certificate submitted to the FAA cannot have been completed and denied.

=====

It appears that you comply with the requirements of 14 CFR § 61.23(c)(3)(i)(A)-(D).

You claim to comply with 14 CFR § 61.23(c)(3)(ii) based on your assertion that the letter telling you your medical certificate is invalid and you must return it to the FAA isn't a revocation because it doesn't use the word "revoked" even though it satisfies the ordinary definition of revocation.

But you've got no argument whatsoever in any way, shape, or form that you meet the requirement of 14 CFR § 61.23(c)(3)(iii) because the letter explicitly withdraws your "most recently issued Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate."

Note that these requirements do not only apply at the time you claim to have switched to Basic Med, but at all times while operating under Basic Med.

And that's the written law.
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I have not been diagnosed with any medical condition that may affect my flying ability. If in when I do have something that affects my flying ability, I will self impose that restriction, and ground myself.
 
captainbobwalsh said:
I have not been diagnosed with any medical condition that may affect my flying ability. If in when I do have something that affects my flying ability, I will self impose that restriction, and ground myself.
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I'm convinced that this reply is from a Russian trollbot. I thought that the data centers were destroyed, but they must be back up and running.
Because a real person would have gotten what was pointed out by sooooo many.
Heck, I'm personally operating under those rules. But I won't point it out again, because trollbots won't listen.
If the admins think I'm addressing a real person, and are thus mean, they need to read the posts this 'bot is making.
 
Jon Wilder said:
At the time, you held an unexpired Authorization for Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate with a valid medical certificate issued under that Authorization. Special Issuance Medical Certificates are different in that the FAA can, at any time, require that you submit medical information to aid them in determining whether you are eligible for your Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate. If you fail to present the medical information they ask for within the time prescribed, they have the authority to withdraw your Authorization. You failed to submit the requested information within the prescribed time period. They were well within their authority to withdraw your Authorization.

The withdrawal of the Authorization letter invalidates the underlying medical certificate, which you were then required to surrender to the agency, as per your withdrawal letter.


You received a letter from the FAA withdrawing your Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate for failing to comply with 14 CFR §67.401(f)(4). That withdrawal action invalidates the medical certificate and, in accordance with §61.23(c)(3)(iii), revokes your BasicMed eligibility. In that letter, you were also ordered to surrender all unexpired medical certificates issued under that withdrawn Authorization.

The agency overrides the issuing AME. The agency withdrew your Authorization, which invalidated your medical certificate.

You received the letter requiring additional information. You thought you'd be slick, get BasicMed, then walk away from the SI. That's where you ****ed up. You cannot do that when there's a pending request for information. Only once you have resolved that request for information and the agency has determined you were eligible, can you then walk away from the SI once the medical certificate is expired and continue to operate on BasicMed.
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I am not a Russian bot! I am a US citizen with a current airline transport pilot certificate. ASMELS I have a current basic med certificate. None of this has been revoked or suspended.
If you read the emergency order requirements above, you will see why my medical information is not available. It is not because anything has been revoked. If any FAA personnel find that I have been flying without a current MEDICAL, then they are able to issue an emergency revocation.
Till then, I will continue to fly as I have for the past 60 years.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I'm convinced that this reply is from a Russian trollbot. I thought that the data centers were destroyed, but they must be back up and running.
Because a real person would have gotten what was pointed out by sooooo many.
Heck, I'm personally operating under those rules. But I won't point it out again, because trollbots won't listen.
If the admins think I'm addressing a real person, and are thus mean, they need to read the posts this 'bot is making.
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I think it's a real person suffering from erratic behavior, inability to comprehend simple regulations, and delusion. Which is exactly what the FAA said in its letter to him. And he's demonstrated all of those behaviors here. Those behaviors could be associated with age-related or other types of cognitive decline, or something else.

The FAA and at least one court have told Mr. Walsh that he cannot legally fly. And he's ignored them. I see no reason why his ignoring strangers on the Internet is more surprising than that.
 
This July, I just experienced the first accident involving my ability to pilot an aircraft in my career. I totaled my friends Cherokee 180. I am alive today because of my ability to react to unusual circumstances. As required, I contacted the FAA, the NTSB and my insurance provider.
I’m still Legally flying and my insurance company paid my claim.
 
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captainbobwalsh said:
This September, I just experienced the first accident involving my ability to pilot an aircraft in my career. I totaled my friends Cherokee 180. I am alive today because of my ability to react to unusual circumstances. As required, I contacted the FAA, the NTSB and my insurance provider.
I’m still Legally flying and my insurance company paid my claim.
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Is that different from the July incident?
 
New Theory : Since Just Plane Silly has now transitioned to "I'm an airline pilot, and can't joke around like I used to", he's deep trolling the POA. Maybe even in his sleep without his awareness.

@SixPapaCharlie -- Do you need a POA intervention? @eman1200 need to give you a hug?
 
captainbobwalsh said:
This July, I just experienced the first accident involving my ability to pilot an aircraft in my career. I totaled my friends Cherokee 180. I am alive today because of my ability to react to unusual circumstances. As required, I contacted the FAA, the NTSB and my insurance provider.
I’m still Legally flying and my insurance company paid my claim.
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Thanks for all the entertainment.
 
captainbobwalsh said:
It was meant for education as to why you shoould have a Class MEDICAL and a Basic medical, especially if you require a first or second class MEDICAL.
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Most of my posts in this thread have been meant for education as to why you should read the regulations CAREFULLY.
 
Palmpilot said:
Most of my posts in this thread have been meant for education as to why you should read the regulations CAREFULLY.
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Without basic med, if you have a small problem that affects your class medical, you have to wait months for Oklahoma to determine that the problem will not affect your BASIC flight status. If you have basic med, you can go to your primary care doctor and discuss it. If they find that it doesn’t affect your abilities they can put that in your CMEC. Then you can continue to fly with your Basic Med.
 
Palmpilot said:
Most of my posts in this thread have been meant for education as to why you should read the regulations CAREFULLY.
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Reading is easy, correctly interpreting the regulations is the hard (and expensive) part. I could’ve thrown my hands up in February 2022, and given into their criminal conduct and stopped flying, but I didn’t. Now I I have to get it in front of a Federal Judge.
 
captainbobwalsh said:
Reading is easy, correctly interpreting the regulations is the hard (and expensive) part. I could’ve thrown my hands up in February 2022, and given into their criminal conduct and stopped flying, but I didn’t. Now I I have to get it in front of a Federal Judge.
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Bob, the fact that you've gone through five lawyers (at least; is your daughter five or six?) at least one of them unlicensed, could be a clue to you, but apparently it's not.
 
Whether bot, troll, or a real person, nothing will ever elicit a response of “you’re right, I don’t currently have a valid medical or a valid Basic Medical, and it’s illegal for me to fly currently”.

If a real person, I wish them the best of luck.
 
captainbobwalsh said:
Without basic med, if you have a small problem that affects your class medical, you have to wait months for Oklahoma to determine that the problem will not affect your BASIC flight status. If you have basic med, you can go to your primary care doctor and discuss it. If they find that it doesn’t affect your abilities they can put that in your CMEC. Then you can continue to fly with your Basic Med.
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Like I said, read CAREFULLY:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/part-61/section-61.23#p-61.23(c)(3)(iii)

"The most recently issued Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate cannot have been withdrawn..."
 
ateamer said:
He’ll be pro se, which will raise the entertainment value.
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It's fun to make fun of pro se litigants. But, having dealt with those who lost everything during the Recession, they are usually desperate and deserving of some compassion.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's fun to make fun of pro se litigants. But, having dealt with those who lost everything during the Recession, they are usually desperate and deserving of some compassion.
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Or obtuse beyond comprehension. I've seen both (worked in a courthouse for a decade.)
The former are entertaining. The latter are sometimes "coached" by the judge in procedure.
 
That’s why collusion is criminal. I’m against two government organizations that are willing to collude, lie and provide false information to other government agencies. it’s not a civil matter.
 
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