All traffic in the area, please advise

cowman said:
Maybe this is because the vast majority of airports I fly into have minimal if any traffic but I'm just happy someone is using the radio and altering me that they're in the area. I'm not really hung up on how they do it.
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No. "someone is using the radio and altering me that they're in the area" is called, "making standard radio calls and position reports."

ATITAPA, on the other hand is you asking every pilot in and approaching the airport traffic pattern to simultaneous key the mic. I'm sorry, but the only response you will ever get from me in a minimal traffic situation is the one I said earlier. You'll just have to wait for my normal position reporting. Sorry. Not sorry.
 
RyanShort1 said:
It’s not nonsense - for some of us it means - I’m still a potential threat but switching frequencies NOW - for instance if you need to get a particular clearance not to bust airspace in front of you.
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“I’m dangerous. Watch out for me.”
 
Just heard a "last call.....SEEYUH"
 
midlifeflyer said:
No. "someone is using the radio and altering me that they're in the area" is called, "making standard radio calls and position reports."

ATITAPA, on the other hand is you asking every pilot in and approaching the airport traffic pattern to simultaneous key the mic. I'm sorry, but the only response you will ever get from me in a minimal traffic situation is the one I said earlier. You'll just have to wait for my normal position reporting. Sorry. Not sorry.
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To be clear I don’t do that. I just announce my position at 10nm, 5nm, and when/where entering the pattern.

Just saying I’m not upset that other people do it.
 
AV8R_87 said:
So, what's everyone using when checking in with the next controller?
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What I was taught and what they want to hear...

NY Approach Mooney 123, 2000 climbing 1 6 thousand
NY Approach Mooney 123, level 1 6 thousand
NY Approach Mooney 123, 1 2 thousand, descending 5000, assigned 040
 
M20K said:
NY Approach Mooney 123, level 1 6 thousand
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See, that's why I asked. You say "level", instead of just the altitude. So do I.
A few other responses in this thread only say the altitude.
 
AV8R_87 said:
See, that's why I asked. You say "level", instead of just the altitude. So do I.
A few other responses in this thread only say the altitude.
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Youre truly missing out if you don’t say “N1234 level, flight level 230”!
 
WDD said:
I’ll dissent - I like “last call. Departing xxxx”. Tells me what the guy will be doing.
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Well... It tells you that you can't talk to him. Is that really useful? :D

In theory he should not be making that call until he's give or take 10 miles away or has climbed WELL above pattern altitude. So you wouldn't be talking to him anyway. If he takes off, climbs to about Pattern Alt and reports "Last Call" then I'm also going to give that person a very wide berth. And if you heard them takeoff and they didn't report Closed Traffic or report the Downwind... Aren't they "departing" the area?

The USEFUL transmission I was taught and per the AIM, is to report which way you're going when you Depart. The example in the AIM is that you do it in that call right as you're taking the Rwy and taking off. But at a lot of airports while you're on the ground the planes in the pattern can hear you, but the ones at a distance can't. So I'll report taking off, then as when I've climbed to the point I'm going to turn on course, I'll report Departing XXX to the West or whatever makes since. This way someone 10 miles out to the west, which is on the other side of the little hill next to the runway can hear I'm heading their way. I'm also still monitoring the Freq, so I'll hear them as they report. Also, I'm going to continue to monitor the Freq. until I'm 10nm or so away or have climbed well above pattern altitude. So a "Last Call" would be of no use to anyone down low heading into or out of that airport. But at my altitude I'd now be blasting over all the other people at nearby airports that are on the same Freq.
 
AV8R_87 said:
You say "level", instead of just the altitude.
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I was taught that way and had a friend that was a Controller at N90 who confirmed they liked to hear it.

Granted the NYC area is pretty busy, but maybe out in the middle of of nowhere talking to Center where there's not as much traffic, they probably don't care.
 
I don't know what the big deal is.

I just wait until I turn final for 36 when everyone else is using 18 and in my best falsetto voice I announce....''I am going to land now boys, everyone outta the way, please...''
 
The AIM is pretty clear:

(facility name), (aircraft identification) LEVEL (altitude or flight level).
(facility name), (aircraft identification) LEAVING (exact altitude or flight level) CLIMBING TO / DESCENDING TO (altitude or flight level)

Atlanta Center Navion 5327K Level 6000

or

Greensboro Approach Navion 5327K Leaving 5000 climbing to 9000.
 
iamtheari said:
"Center, N123, level 8 thousand." I'm strictly professional as long as I'm talking to ATC. Of course, when I'm done with 'em, though ...

ATC: Radar services terminated, squawk VFR, change to advisory frequency approved.
Me: No more squawky, no more talky!
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Don't let the Opposing Bases crowd hear that.
 
Jon Wilder said:
AIM 4-1-9(g)(1) states, and AC 90-66C echoes "Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

I strongly agree, as it creates highly unnecessary frequency congestion. It doesn't give you an accurate traffic picture because (a) not all aircraft have radios, and (b) not all aircraft who have radios would even respond to such a request because (1) they're not obligated to, and (2) it's an awful idea, and we don't want to contribute to unnecessary radio chatter.

ADS-B receivers give a much more accurate traffic picture without causing unnecessary frequency congestion.

However, some pilots will seriously defend the practice to the death. Even going so far as to argue that not all aircraft have ADS-B out, and not all aircraft even have transponders. While this may be true, not all aircraft have com radios either, and those who do are under no obligation to honor your request to advise, so now what? Then you get the anti-authority response..."Well the AIM is not regulatory, and AC's are advisory only".

Regardless, when flying VFR, we have a responsibility to see and avoid. While ADS-B in provides an aid to see and avoid, it is not the be all end all, and we must still have our eyes out the window looking for traffic. Nothing will ever relieve us fully of the see and avoid responsibility when flying in visual conditions.

Was this at one time an accepted practice? Or was it always frowned upon but deviant pilots did it anyway because "they know best"?
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I suspect there is a lot more deviance in pilots than just this...
 
Over and out. Which is it? Over or out? They mean different things (or so I was taught in Army ROTC in 1972).
 
MauleSkinner said:
“I’m dangerous. Watch out for me.”
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Well, in truth, we kind of are. I've been asked to do photos in spots, for instance, where our orbit might make us cross through 4 different airspaces up near IH-20 where we orbit through the Surface B, E, Grand Prairie, and Arlington Deltas. We can't really be on four different frequencies at once and make good sense of things, so we talk to approach and maybe one of the towers. We've also had to do photos other places where we are just inside of a busy class E un-towered field and are arranging to climb on the same orbit up into a Charlie or Bravo airspace shelf and have to switch frequencies while climbing and maintaining the same orbit. Last call for us really and truly might mean we are absolutely still a potential threat, but definitely also will be talking to someone else.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I don’t think “last call” adequately conveys that.
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Sometimes we don't have time for wordy conversations.
If you hear someone say last call, they are still a potential threat and you won't be talking to them.
 
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Jon Wilder said:
AIM 4-1-9(g)(1) states, and AC 90-66C echoes "Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."
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It’s incorrect procedure. It irritates because everyone else is conducting correct procedure of self announcing position and intentions. Then some clown gets on the radio, too important to announce his own intentions, but wants everyone else to drop what they are doing to please advise. Want good advice? Just report your position and intentions and everything will go well.
 
Jon Wilder said:
Was this at one time an accepted practice? Or was it always frowned upon but deviant pilots did it anyway because "they know best"?
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I have heard that this started in the wake of the PATCO firings in the early 80s, and some operators made it SOP to say ATITAPA because someone somewhere thought it'd be a good idea, and others kept copying it. It was problematic enough for long enough that the FAA finally added that statement to the AIM about 15-20 years ago, and now I don't hear it nearly as much any more.

Greg Bockelman said:
I never really understood the disdain for “With you.”
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That's one of the least annoying ones, but it's also utterly useless, except in the situation @midlifeflyer mentioned: Clearing the runway, you get taxi instructions and told to remain this frequency, "Foxtrot, Alpha, Delta to parking with you, 7ST..."

Witmo said:
ATITAPA. Much ado about nothing in my opinion. Inbound to an uncontrolled field on a straight-in, I'll monitor the frequency. If I don't hear anything, I'll ask if there's anyone in the pattern. Surprising number of times, someone will fess up to being in the pattern.
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You'll get the exact same result or better if you merely report your position, and at that point useful communication has occurred. ATITAPA, you might as well say "Everyone key your mic at once, I want to hear radios squealing and not hear anyone!"

Gilbert Buettner said:
Omit needless words.
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This! I've been complimented on radio calls that are short and effective. "Madison Approach, Mooney 97ST, 4500 over Watertown, landing Morey with whiskey." Put the most information you can into the fewest words while ensuring the correct message gets across.

M20K said:
Well... It tells you that you can't talk to him. Is that really useful? :D
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I'll occasionally use Last Call when I'm in a situation where I'll need to change frequencies about as soon as the gear is folded. Departing directly toward very nearby B/C for example.

M20K said:
In theory he should not be making that call until he's give or take 10 miles away or has climbed WELL above pattern altitude.
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If there's no other airspace in the way.

Ghery said:
Over and out. Which is it? Over or out? They mean different things (or so I was taught in Army ROTC in 1972).
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Roger Wilco! :D

Same thing, right? Wilco implies Roger, and Out implies Over. Otherwise it would be like saying "I don't know what you said but I'm going to do it," or "I'm changing frequencies but I'm not done talking yet."
 
Anything that helps situational awareness is good. When people start asking Joe was his ground speed is, then other guy states he’s 15 knots slower, so make sure to save a hamburger… That’s what gets on my never. Find another freq. Trying to teach is difficult enough without hearing what’s for lunch.

I’m all for anyone who uses last call or please advise. Doesn’t mean I’m going to advise depending on my position but it tells me, they are trying to be safe.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Omit needless words.
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Yes. And look at all the posts defending those needless words. Personally, I think people pick them up, get into the habit of them, and simply can’t stop themselves. Hard to get rid of habits. Easier to justify them. I know. I have plenty.

“It was far easier for you, as civilized men, to behave like barbarians than it was for them as barbarians to behave like civilized men” - Spock in Mirror, Mirror.
 
eman1200 said:
I’m going to start saying “first call”.

“eman1200 10 miles out, first call”.

Just to let people know there will be more calls.
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or "eman1200 10 miles out, first of many calls"
 
“No Joy on Traffic”
“Tally Ho Traffic In Sight”

I feel like I’ll next hear “Fox 1”.
 
WDD said:
“No Joy on Traffic”
“Tally Ho Traffic In Sight”
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NEGATIVE CONTACT or TRAFFIC IN SIGHT

The others I hate are:
"LOOKING" - of course you are looking, all ATC wants to know is whether you see him.
"I'VE GOT HIM ON THE FISH FINDER." - Again, ATC only needs to know if you see him.
 
If doing touch and goes, call it

“Skylane 1234, cross for 31, closed traffic”.

And if you are practicing an approach, people will acmodate

But - Please don’t fly the approach opposite to heavy pattern traffic and sides step. Someone overshooting a base is going to get close to you

Please don’t fly a straight in 5 mile final. Get in line to enter the pattern like anyone else.

OK - rant from last week over…….
 
flyingron said:
LOOKING" - of course you are looking, all ATC wants to know is whether you see him.
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I need to acknowledge that I heard ATC. I do that if I don’t see traffic by saying “looking”.

Seems as succinct and clear as “Negative Contact”.
 
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flyingron said:
"I'VE GOT HIM ON THE FISH FINDER." - Again, ATC only needs to know if you see him.
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What if you actually have him on the fish finder but not visually? (and you have "real" TCAS) I mean, if TCAS can give you RAs, then wouldn't the rest of the situational display be accurate enough to have them identified?
 
flyingron said:
NEGATIVE CONTACT or TRAFFIC IN SIGHT

The others I hate are:
"LOOKING" - of course you are looking, all ATC wants to know is whether you see him.
"I'VE GOT HIM ON THE FISH FINDER." - Again, ATC only needs to know if you see him.
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Interestingly, the OB guys say that ATC doesn't necessarily need to hear anything except an acknowledgement (i.e., tail number). Apparently ATC is required to call out the traffic, but no positive or negative response is required. I imagine that an "in sight" call would help calm their nerves if an alarm is squawking at them, but I guess it's not mandatory.
 
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