AITA? - Questions about interaction with Tower Controller

AV8R_87 said:
I was about to cross a class D the other day. I tune in a few miles early only to hear the controller say the last three of my tail number, clearing me for a touch and go. ??!?!!?
He was talking to sbother aircraft with a similar tail #. You bet I was very intentional as I stated my # and intentions.
Surprisingly enough, he never issued any warnings to me or the other plane about similar callsigns, and a couple times he used abbreviated callsigns when talking to us. Since we were flying different profiles, there was no real confusion about who was on 1st, but I still made sure to reply with my full callsign.
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Years ago I was flying King Air 53E, and there was a Cherokee 53E on the freq that consistently responded to calls to us. The controller didn’t actually seem to notice until I asked, “was that for King Air 53E or Cherokee 53E?” At which time he gave us the “similar callsigns” statement.
 
Related Tangent: Forget about abbreviations, how about a call sign not your N number.

Yesterday taxing to get up to runway 25 at KLZU, there were numerous ATP school planes taxing as well. For whatever reason (ego?) the call signs for ATP are different from the N number.

(names made up to protect the innocent and because I couldn't remember them anyway)...
"Career Track 1234 holding short 25" I looked at saw an ATP plane N 5678. This was followed by another call from the other side of the runway from the other taxi "Career Track 2345 holding short 25". It was an ATP plane N 8989.

At this point the tower got flustered, and responded "OK, whose is holding short on Yankee", followed by "Who is lined up first holding short on Whiskey?" I'd think it would be easier for the tower to keep planes separated on the ground if they used a call sign that's the same as the big numbers and letters painted on the side of the plane.

RussR

Thread 'Proliferation of schools using callsigns'

It seems to me that a whole lot more flight schools are using "callsigns" on the radio now than there used to be. I'd say it's in the last few years, but that also coincides with me getting a new job where I end up at a LOT more smaller airports, so perhaps I'm just seeing it more.

Formerly, callsigns were mostly used by the airlines or the military. I flew into IXD a few months ago, and there was a "Pit Boss 21" in the pattern. Now, what's Pit Boss? I incorrectly assumed it was an ANG F-16 or something like that. Nope, typical trainer from a flight school, "Pit Boss" being chosen for...
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WDD said:
Related Tangent: Forget about abbreviations, how about a call sign not your N number.

Yesterday taxing to get up to runway 25 at KLZU, there were numerous ATP school planes taxing as well. For whatever reason (ego?) the call signs for ATP are different from the N number.

(names made up to protect the innocent and because I couldn't remember them anyway)...
"Career Track 1234 holding short 25" I looked at saw an ATP plane N 5678. This was followed by another call from the other side of the runway from the other taxi "Career Track 2345 holding short 25". It was an ATP plane N 8989.

At this point the tower got flustered, and responded "OK, whose is holding short on Yankee", followed by "Who is lined up first holding short on Whiskey?" I'd think it would be easier for the tower to keep planes separated on the ground if they used a call sign that's the same as the big numbers and letters painted on the side of the plane.

RussR

Thread 'Proliferation of schools using callsigns'

It seems to me that a whole lot more flight schools are using "callsigns" on the radio now than there used to be. I'd say it's in the last few years, but that also coincides with me getting a new job where I end up at a LOT more smaller airports, so perhaps I'm just seeing it more.

Formerly, callsigns were mostly used by the airlines or the military. I flew into IXD a few months ago, and there was a "Pit Boss 21" in the pattern. Now, what's Pit Boss? I incorrectly assumed it was an ANG F-16 or something like that. Nope, typical trainer from a flight school, "Pit Boss" being chosen for...
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Yes, ATP uses "Career Track" But since it's an official callsign, for ADS-B out purposes, their transponder should be showing CXK1234.

Interesting that LZU Tower was getting confused. I doubt ATL gets confused with all those American 123, Delta 543, etc callsigns instead of the N-Number. Maybe it's slow at ATL? :D
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yes, ATP uses "Career Track" But since it's an official callsign, for ADS-B out purposes, their transponder should be showing CXK1234.

Interesting that LZU Tower was getting confused. I doubt ATL gets confused with all those American 123, Delta 543, etc callsigns instead of the N-Number. Maybe it's slow at ATL? :D
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I'll give the controller in the D tower at KLZU a bit of grace. It's not Hartsfield, they don't have hundreds of people working ground, ramp, tower, and have the latest plane tracking gizmos. I exaggerate greatly here of course, but the ground and air ops at a smaller D is a different game.

"American Flight 1234" is useful information, like what ramp it might be using, what color scheme the plane is going to be, whatever. "Career Track 1234" (I swear it could almost sound like "ClearTalk") doesn't tell you as much besides it probably has a student in it. Is it a Skyhawk, Skyland, a twin?

Why not "CXK" followed by the number painted on the side? But, ATP and the FAA didn't ask me about my opinion on how things should be run for some reason......
 
"I was a little agitated at this point, because he essentially called me out twice for what? I'm still not sure."

Really? This gets your agitated??? Seems pretty obvious he 'called you out' because he wanted the whole name. I don't get the big deal here?? Seems like a high level of sensitivity on your part for a low level request on his part. But what do I know? Just reading the post for what its worth and that's my take. Personally, I just let these things roll off my shoulders and not get so offended if it doesn't go the way I think it should. You are in his airspace, you play his game. If the objective is to land with his control, then you do what needs to be done to land. An old instructor told me that early on and it always stuck with me.
 
Interesting that LZU Tower was getting confused. I doubt ATL gets confused with all those American 123, Delta 543, etc callsigns instead of the N-Number. Maybe it's slow at ATL?

ADSB shows the call sign, not the tail number for airlines and Part 121, 135 so there is no reason to get confused. e.g UAL1748, SWA1724
Plus I doubt if anyone in the tower at big airports can read the tail number 3 miles away anyway.
 
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JScarry said:
Interesting that LZU Tower was getting confused. I doubt ATL gets confused with all those American 123, Delta 543, etc callsigns instead of the N-Number. Maybe it's slow at ATL?

ADSB shows the call sign, not the tail number for airlines and Part 121, 135 so there is no reason to get confused. e.g UAL1748, SWA1724
Plus I doubt if anyone in the tower at big airports can read the tail number 3 miles away anyway.
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I was being tongue in cheek about ATL.

I think reading N numbers on the side of light airplanes pointed in different directions is not particularly easy for any tower from even 1/4 mile away and suspect that any confusion over which Career Track is more attributable to seeing 4 Archers with identical paint scheme taxiing around.

ADS-B shows call signs for aircraft that use call signs, not just 121 135. That’s why I mentioned “CXK1234” for Career Track.
 
In my old Tiger (owned it for 11 years), was once on flight following (long XC) ... no issue until near central Texas, controller was using an identification I wasn't expecting. Had been Grumman 74630 or Tiger 74630 the entire trip. When they stated "American 630" I didn't respond as there were multiple American Airlines on frequency ... after the third call up I remembered Grumman had an "AKA" of American long ago ...
 
Yeah, I’ve been a white collar migrant worker myself.

Chicago, Cincinnati, St Louis, Kansas, Louisville, and last Atlanta.

Most companies I’ve worked for don’t exist anymore BTW.
 
Half Fast said:
Not sure I’d announce that on a public forum....
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Either 1) I picked companies at end of life cycle, or 2) I somehow got them there LOL.

Sara Lee, Anheuser Busch, a couple marketing companies.

Actually, a recruiter once told me my resume had a weak spot where I stayed at one place over 5 years.
 
WDD said:
Actually, a recruiter once told me my resume had a weak spot where I stayed at one place over 5 years.
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A recruiter that gets paid a percentage of your salary by the company? OF COURSE they did! :D

Go ask your current employer about that. Or better yet, if you're currently looking, after the ink dries on the offer you get, ask the person that interviewed you for the position if it is a week spot or not.
 
M20K said:
A recruiter that gets paid a percentage of your salary by the company? OF COURSE they did! :D

Go ask your current employer about that. Or better yet, if you're currently looking, after the ink dries on the offer you get, ask the person that interviewed you for the position if it is a week spot or not.
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Crazy to think about, but in my field the only way to get promoted was to change companies. Hence, you must not be very good if you can’t get a different job. The marketing people were even more so.

The one way to get a raise was to get a competitive offer. Dicey, because if they didn’t counter well you were leveled and had to leave.

Good times in the consumer packaged goods marketing world.

I’m retired for a couple of years now, so no more job management for me.
 
yup - used to be companies valued employee loyalty.

sadly, downward loyalty and upward loyalty aren't valued much anymore.
 
It's mostly a bureaucracy problem. The larger an organization grows, the harder it gets to identify and promote talent. It also gets harder to get rid of dead weight, toxic people, etc. Easy but objective metrics like seniority and staying out of trouble take the place of harder subjective metrics like performance and potential.

Managing organizations at scale is really hard.
 
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WDD said:
Either 1) I picked companies at end of life cycle, or 2) I somehow got them there LOL.

Sara Lee, Anheuser Busch, a couple marketing companies.

Actually, a recruiter once told me my resume had a weak spot where I stayed at one place over 5 years.
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That’s four. Down just one more and you’ll be an ace!
:biggrin:
 
As already stated, Pilot should use abbreviated call sign only after ATC does, and use the same shortened call sign.

As for this situation, I don't thing ATC was being nit-picky. There may have been another plane in the vicinity (maybe on a different freq, maybe still on the ground, etc) with a similar tail number. Equally possible explanations include: a plane with similar tail number landed but did not close flight plan; the ATC guy was fresh out of school (or the military); someone was watching such as a school tour group or an evaluator.

Just as an aside, I have been in the air with another plane on the freq with a similar tail number - makes you pay attention, but it is really distracting and it must be worse for the guy in the tower who has to keep the two of use separated mentally and visually.
 
M20K said:
A recruiter that gets paid a percentage of your salary by the company? OF COURSE they did! :D

Go ask your current employer about that. Or better yet, if you're currently looking, after the ink dries on the offer you get, ask the person that interviewed you for the position if it is a week spot or not.
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I think in this case, the recruiter has a point. We're not talking about the 1950s when people had a lifetime job. That all changed. With a few exceptions, companies have no loyalty to employees and employees have no reason to be loyal in return. 2-weeks notice? What's that about? "When you get back to your office you'll find you can't log in. There will be a box for your personal effects. Take them and go". The workforce as a whole became mobile. There are exceptions, but now, in the, 2020s employees are expected to be mobile.

WDD said:
Crazy to think about, but in my field the only way to get promoted was to change companies. Hence, you must not be very good if you can’t get a different job. The marketing people were even more so.

The one way to get a raise was to get a competitive offer. Dicey, because if they didn’t counter well you were leveled and had to leave.
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is pretty much the state of the art.
 
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I was on a busy frequent once where an aircraft with a tailnumber like N997WW - I don't remember it now, but it was a very "wordy" number. The guy was southern and it took about 10 seconds for him to say the whole thing.

He shortened it. The controller chastised him.

Now it took him about 20 seconds to say while he enunciated all the letters.

Was He The AH? Yeah, but he wasn't first.
 
I think in the OP, the controller wanted the transmission ended with call sign. Rather than; "34F cleared to land", controller probably wanted to hear; "cleared to land, 34F".
 
bflynn said:
I was on a busy frequent once where an aircraft with a tailnumber like N997WW - I don't remember it now, but it was a very "wordy" number. The guy was southern and it took about 10 seconds for him to say the whole thing.
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That reminds me of when @SkyHog was building the KR2 and went and registered N999NN simply because it's the absolute worst possible tail number you can say. :rofl:
 
I wish all pilots could visit a tower when it’s a little busy. Controllers are doing much more than waiting on your call, especially when we work alone. There are phones to answer, coordination with other towers and tracon to do, about 8 radio frequencies to monitor, etc.

Not to mention hot mikes, wrong frequencies, other controllers asking questions, explaining stuff to trainees and dealing with C-130 clowns
 
With a nod to Jeff Foxworthy, here are some ways to find out if you’re a C-130 clown.

If you want to fly a C-130 without filing a flight plan, expecting the tower to file one for you, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you suddenly change your mind and turn left instead of turning right as you were told by ATC, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you are told to report initial and you fly out to a ten mile final, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you don’t repeat instructions by ATC or it takes 10 seconds or more to do so, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you ever hear your call sign followed by “WHAT ARE YOU DOING?”, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you know quiet hours start at 10:30 and you go around at 10:28 for no reason just to get another approach in, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you beat up the pattern for over an hour while never letting the tower know your type landing assuming the tower knows you want the option, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you are incapable of conveying your intentions to ATC, you might be a C-130 clown.
 
Timbeck2 said:
With a nod to Jeff Foxworthy, here are some ways to find out if you’re a C-130 clown.

If you want to fly a C-130 without filing a flight plan, expecting the tower to file one for you, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you suddenly change your mind and turn left instead of turning right as you were told by ATC, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you are told to report initial and you fly out to a ten mile final, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you don’t repeat instructions by ATC or it takes 10 seconds or more to do so, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you ever hear your call sign followed by “WHAT ARE YOU DOING?”, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you know quiet hours start at 10:30 and you go around at 10:28 for no reason just to get another approach in, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you beat up the pattern for over an hour while never letting the tower know your type landing assuming the tower knows you want the option, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you are incapable of conveying your intentions to ATC, you might be a C-130 clown.
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This might be worthy of it's own thread ...

Good stuff! :rofl:
 
Timbeck2 said:
With a nod to Jeff Foxworthy, here are some ways to find out if you’re a C-130 clown.

If you want to fly a C-130 without filing a flight plan, expecting the tower to file one for you, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you suddenly change your mind and turn left instead of turning right as you were told by ATC, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you are told to report initial and you fly out to a ten mile final, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you don’t repeat instructions by ATC or it takes 10 seconds or more to do so, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you ever hear your call sign followed by “WHAT ARE YOU DOING?”, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you know quiet hours start at 10:30 and you go around at 10:28 for no reason just to get another approach in, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you beat up the pattern for over an hour while never letting the tower know your type landing assuming the tower knows you want the option, you might be a C-130 clown.

If you are incapable of conveying your intentions to ATC, you might be a C-130 clown.
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Tell us how you really feel.
 
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