Airline, Captain Alcoholic Addiction Squealer.

[brien23]

Airlines, Captain smells of Alcohol does the first officer squeal and turn him in as soon as he sees it, how about flight attendants. If the first officer does turn in the Captain is his career over, will any other captain ever fly with him again or hold him as a squealer and end his flying with that airline, or flight attendants who squealed what happens to them or any other airline person. How about flight schools, another CFI or part 135 pilot, do you squeal and take what comes after, or just keep to yourself and hope he or she does not kill themselves or others, or are you part of the problem.

 

[172andyou]

 

[kayoh190]

No need to squeal - just tell the impaired crew member that they're unfit to fly, and to do whatever they need to do to remove themselves from the trip.

 

[brien23]

No need to squeal - just tell the impaired crew member that they're unfit to fly, and to do whatever they need to do to remove themselves from the trip.

I agree with that but how many times before that did the captain get away with that. In fact, a drunk driver will, on average, drive 80 times or less while under the influence before their first arrest. In America, every 51 minutes or so, someone is killed in a drunk driving. I know it's hard to Squeal on someone but stopping what you see as a problem now, doing the right thing for everyone else down the line.

 

[bonefishpete]

He Was My Partner

 

[Daleandee]

do you squeal and take what comes after, or just keep to yourself and hope he or she does not kill themselves or others, or are you part of the problem.

You've already answered you own question ...

ETA: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/confusing-pilot-record.151335/#post-3630658

Would I confront a pilot that I knew was drinking on the job? Absolutely!

 

[Larry in TN]

I agree with that but how many times before that did the captain get away with that.

Airline unions have Professional Standards committees. The reporting pilot will report the incident to that committee and they will work to get the offending pilot into a treatment program. Flying drunk is not tolerated.

 

[kayoh190]

I agree with that but how many times before that did the captain get away with that. In fact, a drunk driver will, on average, drive 80 times or less while under the influence before their first arrest. In America, every 51 minutes or so, someone is killed in a drunk driving. I know it's hard to Squeal on someone but stopping what you see as a problem now, doing the right thing for everyone else down the line.

I don't know anything about my crewmember's (CA, FO, FA - it's irrelevant) situation, whether this is a one off thing, etc. All I know is that he's not flying with me, so he can either remove himself from the trip using whatever means he sees fit, or I'll make the call myself (of course the last thing he wants is someone else to make the call). If I notice this is a common problem with this particular pilot, any call will go to Professional Standards, and the union will get him help.

That said, this situation has been the topic of conversation around the industry for as long as I've been alive, and I still have yet to meet anyone that's actually had it happen to them. Professional drinkers are pretty good at hiding it.

 

[AV8R_87]

If I'm an FO with a spotless record and I suddenly start getting sidelined/given bad reviews after reporting a (potentially) drunk captain, I'm getting a good lawyer and I won't need to fly for money for the rest of my life.

 

[kmacht]

How do you not say something. Regardless of everyone else on that airplane do you want to be flying with a drunk pilot? How do you trust they will be able to do their job correctly and safely while drunk? I also think that the vast majority of other pilots are going to be supportive of you and you won’t be shunned. They aren’t going to want to be flying with the drunk either.

 

[ateamer]

This isn’t even really a conversation for a non-professional flight crew forum.

Much like not tolerating video game players (“simmers”) who try to tell real pilots how to fly real planes, private pilots shouldn’t be pontificating as to how airline pilots do their jobs. We non-121s mostly don’t know what we don’t know.

 

[jayhawk74]

I remember reading an article, I believe in the ALPA Magazine, about a Commuter Captain who had his Pilot Certificates revoked. The FAA revoked his Certificates because he flew one leg after the Gate Agent had reported the FO as drunk, but didn't tell the Captain. The FAA said that he should have known the FO was drunk if the Gate Agent knew. So with that history from the FAA it might be a case of protecting your own career.

 

[TCABM]

…Professional drinkers are pretty good at hiding it.

Yeah. We had a pro drinker as an instructor in the training squadron. Screwdrivers in an ocean spray bottle in the morning, vodka & juice all day long, then went home and hid it from his wife. He was highly functional and never stinking drunk, just kept a low-level BAC continuously. No classic visual signs, either. No red nose, no bloodshot eyes, no cherry cheeks/ear lobes, no DTs.

Until.

A few personal problems came to a head and he drank thru the night, then drove in the next day without sleep. Guy got selected for a random vehicle inspection. Gate guard found an open container and it was downhill from there.

Guy got the choice of immediate self-referral to 28-day alcohol treatment program or the commander would order it. It took a couple iterations of “voluntary referral is the choice you want to retire in three years instead of getting charged and dishonorably discharged”. Before it sunk in.

Once he was out of treatment, instructor status removed and his flying status was suspended for about a year until there was enough data to support putting him back on the line.

He got shuffled off to a non-flying staff billet and was allowed to retire.

 

[brien23]

This isn’t even really a conversation for a non-professional flight crew forum.

Much like not tolerating video game players (“simmers”) who try to tell real pilots how to fly real planes, private pilots shouldn’t be pontificating as to how airline pilots do their jobs. We non-121s mostly don’t know what we don’t know.

Jan 16, 2025 · A Southwest Airlines pilot was removed from the cockpit ahead of a Wednesday flight from Georgia to Chicago and was booked on a charge of driving under the influence. If he got all the way into the cockpit and no one stopped him, yes this a a passenger PPL or anyone problem.
Would the Airline Chief pilot want to know just how many people knew the pilot had a problem before the cops pulled him from the cockpit and what happened to them.

 

[eman1200]

I ABSOLUTELY would say something, starting with "give me that bottle of whiskey, right now!" or "NO sir, you are not drinking on this flight alone!" or "what does this CVR on/off button do?"

 

[Velocity173]

A lot of people don’t want to report because they believe it’s not their job to report it. The system will catch them. Well, the “system” also relies on suspected drug tests to catch them. That means fellow employees telling management.

Some don’t want to report, because they don’t want to be a snitch. I’d say well, this isn’t some dude flipping burgers at McDonald’s. It’s a safety related position and they as employees are responsible for reporting dangerous activity that could harm them or their customers.

This reminds of something that I’ve been noticing in social media these days. It’s the semantic drift of the word “Karen.” It used to mean someone making a false accusation. A noisy person with nothing better to do. Now it’s evolved into including people who are making a legitimate report on either safety or lack of service that they deserve. Society has become so lax that historical norms or expectations are out the window. In this case, I have no doubt that there are those that would label the SIC as a “Karen” for reporting the CPT to management.

 

[Larry in TN]

I suddenly start getting sidelined/given bad reviews

You're never flown for an airline, have you? There is no mechanism to "sideline" an F/O because Captains don't like him. For a Captain to have an F/O removed from a flight he needs good, articulatable reasons. This almost never happens. The only time an F/O gets reviews, outside of training, is while they're on probation. Nobody is going to fault him for turning in a drunk pilot. They will thank him. They probably won't find out, though, because when a report is made through professional standards, the identity is kept confidential.

Would the Airline Chief pilot want to know just how many people knew the pilot had a problem before the cops pulled him from the cockpit and what happened to them.

That is what Professional Standards is for. The union's professional standards committee gets the pilot into a treatment program before it comes to the attention of management.

 

[kayoh190]

This isn’t even really a conversation for a non-professional flight crew forum.

Much like not tolerating video game players (“simmers”) who try to tell real pilots how to fly real planes, private pilots shouldn’t be pontificating as to how airline pilots do their jobs. We non-121s mostly don’t know what we don’t know.

I don't mind talking about it. I'd rather set the record straight than let the FUD get spread. I'm just one data point, but in the 15 years I've been flying 121 I've never been made to think that anyone would knowingly allow an airplane to be flown with an impaired crewmember. I'm not saying it never happens, but it's certainly not anything I'd lose sleep over.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I'm just one data point, but in the 15 years I've been flying 121 I've never been made to think that anyone would knowingly allow an airplane to be flown with an impaired crewmember.

Only an FAA inspector in Fargo would do so. But that’s more than 15 years ago.

 

[danhagan]

No brainer ... FO becomes a single pilot operation if he DOESN'T kick this guy off the flight deck. Is he going to handle radios? There are a few YouTubes of ATC telling a pilot to shutdown and won't give taxi clearance based on slurring speech. Imagine you're Dean Martin and Foster Brookes is handling comms

 

[Greg Bockelman]

You're never flown for an airline, have you? There is no mechanism to "sideline" an F/O because Captains don't like him. For a Captain to have an F/O removed from a flight he needs good, articulatable reasons. This almost never happens. The only time an F/O gets reviews, outside of training, is while they're on probation. Nobody is going to fault him for turning in a drunk pilot. They will thank him. They probably won't find out, though, because when a report is made through professional standards, the identity is kept confidential.


That is what Professional Standards is for. The union's professional standards committee gets the pilot into a treatment program before it comes to the attention of management.

You keep saying to report it to professional standards. That is good advice but if you show up in ops before a flight and the other pilot appears to be intoxicated, it may not be possible to touch base with professional standards.

Having said that, the flight will most likely be delayed while getting a reserve pilot to cover the flight.

The one piece of advice I got at some point in my career was this: if there is any doubt in one’s mind about the safety of the flight before the door closes, get off of the airplane. It won’t leave without you and it is better to resolve issues on the ground.

 

[MD11Pilot]

Professional Standards is the place to report in most cases. I am a teetotaler and have drank maybe an ounce of beer in my 71 years. I found that some heavy drinkers would take advantage by depending upon me to get them back to the hotel in time to sleep it off. I buried a dear dear friend that drank himself to death before he was retirement age...it hurts still. With the HIMS program the company was very understanding and helpful if a pilot just said "I am in serious need of help" and they and the union would do everything in their power to get the pilot help. If you got "caught"...It was over. My company had one fellow that I had flown with at two other airlines that just couldn't get it under control. He was deadheading back to base and sleeping in the bunk and one of the crew members went to take his break and the smell of alcohol was overpowering. The pilot was drinking inflight. He went back to the cockpit and they discussed it and used the SATCOM to call the union HIMS representative. It had to be reported and the crew member was confronted and he knew it was over. This was his second or third round of failure. He resigned and died about a year later...of alcohol poisoning. It's not a matter of someone "ratting" someone out because if you know and you don't say something then you're just as responsible. I have seen guys suddenly get "sick" and not fly when confronted. I have also had one guy who was so bad that he took on several crew members and the police in Germany. He just said "I need help" and he was off the line for over a year but quit drinking and came back. He personally wrote and called every crew member involved and thanked them for saving his life and career.

 

[RussR]

Airlines, Captain smells of Alcohol does the first officer squeal and turn him in as soon as he sees it, how about flight attendants. If the first officer does turn in the Captain is his career over, will any other captain ever fly with him again or hold him as a squealer and end his flying with that airline, or flight attendants who squealed what happens to them or any other airline person. How about flight schools, another CFI or part 135 pilot, do you squeal and take what comes after, or just keep to yourself and hope he or she does not kill themselves or others, or are you part of the problem.

I find your repeated use of the word "squeal" to be interesting, because it immediately creates a bias in the question. "Poisoning the well" so to speak, since "Squeal" clearly has a negative connotation of "tattletale" or "snitch" and not the positive "proper reporting of an unsafe condition".

 

[Daleandee]

This isn’t even really a conversation for a non-professional flight crew forum.

We fly on them planes too so yes, I do have a say in this!

 

[EvilEagle]

I'll echo what the other pro pilots have said - in over 10 years in the airlines, this hasn't ever come up in real life - or with anyone I've flown with that could relate a first-hand account of it happening. Of course like anything in aviation, as soon as one thing happens it's all over the news. Obviously, this must have happened a few times but there is DEFINITELY zero stigma about reporting someone who isn't fit to fly. Easy call and I don't know anyone who would even think twice about it.

I'll also echo the poisoning of the well with "squeal" - I don't know any professional aviator who would use that term in this case. Squeals are things that bearings do (hopefully not) or a noise that a wheel might make - oh and that one barnyard animal.

 

[robin ardoin]

….snip…… - oh and that one barnyard animal.

And, Ned Beatty

 

[Daleandee]

Squeals are things that bearings do (hopefully not) or a noise that a wheel might make - oh and that one barnyard animal.

That's why you never tell secrets to a pig ... yep they'll squeal on ya!

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Airlines, Captain smells of Alcohol does the first officer squeal and turn him in as soon as he sees it, how about flight attendants. If the first officer does turn in the Captain is his career over, will any other captain ever fly with him again or hold him as a squealer and end his flying with that airline, or flight attendants who squealed what happens to them or any other airline person. How about flight schools, another CFI or part 135 pilot, do you squeal and take what comes after, or just keep to yourself and hope he or she does not kill themselves or others, or are you part of the problem.

You must be bored… or drunk.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Jesus guys. I just got the class date.
Can we at least wait until I get through training before we start trying to figure out how to stop this?

 

[Larry in TN]

You keep saying to report it to professional standards. That is good advice but if you show up in ops before a flight and the other pilot appears to be intoxicated, it may not be possible to touch base with professional standards.

I've said more than that, though it may be spread out across several posts.

1. Tell him that he appears intoxicated. If he can't dispel your concerns, tell him to remove himself from the trip then report it to Pro Standards.

2. If he won't remove himself from the trip, remove yourself from the trip and report it to Pro Standards.

3. If he is still going to fly impaired, report it to the company so that he will be stopped, then report it to Pro Standards.

As you know, there isn't going to be any backlash from our co-workers, even if they do, somehow, find out who made the report.

 

[Hacker]

@brien23, realize that this exact scenario is one that is used to assess pilots in airline interviews as well as a regular topic in Human Factors during airline initial and recurrent training.

The list of "what should the other crew member do and in what order?" is well covered in the other posts here. I'd say every pilot pilot at a 121 airline is pretty well versed in the concepts and strategies. Like others here, I've never personally run up against the situation in the wild, but know of other pilots who have.

If you want to know what happens after these actions are taken, then spend some time reading here:

HIMS is an occupational substance abuse treatment program, specific to pilots

 

[eman1200]

there should be a squawk code you can enter (maybe 69420?) that sends a ping to a standby on-call pilot in cases like this.

 

[Hacker]

there should be a squawk code you can enter (maybe 69420?) that sends a ping to a standby on-call pilot in cases like this.

Staying in one's hotel room and calling in sick to scheduling does this magically, too.

 

[eman1200]

Staying in one's hotel room and calling in sick to scheduling does this magically, too.

well then there'd never be the need for this thread then now would there

 

[Dana]

Seems to me the first thing to say is, "Sir, have you been drinking?". Further action depends on the response.

 

[Lindberg]

I agree with that but how many times before that did the captain get away with that. In fact, a drunk driver will, on average, drive 80 times or less while under the influence before their first arrest. In America, every 51 minutes or so, someone is killed in a drunk driving. I know it's hard to Squeal on someone but stopping what you see as a problem now, doing the right thing for everyone else down the line.

So was the OP a serious question or more bait so you could rant?

 

[unsafervguy]

there had to be more to it than that. I have in depth knowledge of a case of that exact thing with the exception that it was the captain drunk and a probationary FO. The FO not only was back at work in a couple of days, but is now a captain at a major airline.

I remember reading an article, I believe in the ALPA Magazine, about a Commuter Captain who had his Pilot Certificates revoked. The FAA revoked his Certificates because he flew one leg after the Gate Agent had reported the FO as drunk, but didn't tell the Captain. The FAA said that he should have known the FO was drunk if the Gate Agent knew. So with that history from the FAA it might be a case of protecting your own career

 

[Larry in TN]

there had to be more to it than that. I have in depth knowledge of a case of that exact thing with the exception that it was the captain drunk and a probationary FO. The FO not only was back at work in a couple of days, but is now a captain at a major airline.

If that's the case I remember, it was in a Jetstream and the F/O was a replacement F/O. The airplane was fully boarded, and Captain strapped into his seat, when the F/O arrived. The F/O boarded, they closed up, and departed. Very different from a normal situation where they'd generally meet about an hour before the flight and do all of the prefight activities together. That Captain had a very small opportunity to realize that there was anything wrong prior to departing.

 

[geezer]

First, the time. 30 years ago. Things were different then.

I was a Commercial and Instrument rated pilot, hundreds of hours of VOR navigation, and familiar with the zigzag over the stations, as flown by auto pilots.

The flight from Chicago O Hare to Baltimore Washington on a miserable windy snowy after noon, almost all flights delayed by hours. We sat onboard for nearly an hour before pushback, and taxied to the parallel taxiway and joined the line. The runways and taxiways had been plowed at least once.

Shortly, “This is the Captain speaking, we are third in line, and will depart soon”. I had a right side window seat, and could see the planes in front of us crossing to the runway and departing. Since they were so far away, I started counting, and we were the seventh plane to take the runway. The Captain was a liar.

The departure was normal, but shortly after we took off, the airliner did the VOR zigzag, we were on auto pilot. At that time auto pilot was restricted to above some arbitrary altitude, and we had not reached 10% of that value yet, the VOR was a fix on an approach to the runway, opposite direction. This was followed by a turn east, capture of the outbound radial, and a few overshoots due to the sensitivity so close to the station. With the auto pilot on, the radial selector had obviously been simply rotated to the new radial, and the autopilot hunted and found it.

Good pilots went to heading mode when approaching the station, centered up the CDI with the heading bug after crossing, and re engaged VOR nav. This was the first time that I had felt an airliner zigzag across a VOR. For a turn, they hand flew for a couple of minutes, until established on the new radial.

About 15 minutes later “This is your Captain, we are getting preferred routing to make up our late time, and we will be in Boston nearly on time”. Long pause “That will be Baltimore on time”. Later “This is your Captain, we will be in Boston in uh click, click about x minutes and y hours” click k click Baltimore”.

We had another update, this time to Baltimore, and a different voice, and this time, a plausible estimate.

We had zigzagged every VOR on the route, and arrived the same time late as we had departed, and happily, the terminal said Baltimore. I carried the L charts and approach books for the route and destination in my attaché case when doing business trips. My partner for that trip had an alcoholic father, and opined that the pilot was staggering drunk, and the other pilot was flying the plane. My opinion was the autopilot was flying; the First Officer was managing the systems and did the landing.

The cockpit door did not open after we were at the gate. I really should have called the tower and suggested that security visit the cockpit. That was a triple engine plane, with a full load of passengers, and the First Officer was not succeeding in controlling the Captain.

 

[jayhawk74]

If that's the case I remember, it was in a Jetstream and the F/O was a replacement F/O. The airplane was fully boarded, and Captain strapped into his seat, when the F/O arrived. The F/O boarded, they closed up, and departed. Very different from a normal situation where they'd generally meet about an hour before the flight and do all of the prefight activities together. That Captain had a very small opportunity to realize that there was anything wrong prior to departing.

That's the incident that I remember. If I also remember correctly his regional put him on a leave of absence and ALPA arranged a scholarship for him to get his ratings back. It was basically taking checkrides as his flight time counted.