Update about AggieMike88

[Dave Theisen]

The airlines may view this incompleted training as a failure, but the corporate world will respect your decision to not spend any more of the company’s money if you knew you weren’t going to stay. You’ll be fine.

 

[Brad Z]

Life is too short to do a job you're not interested in. I am curious though, and perhaps for others benefit as well, what about the job was revealed to you in training that you were not aware about before you accepted the offer? I'm genuinely curious, as I am one of those people who considered the airlines at various moments in my life but opted to work in the industry flying a desk and limit my flying to personal fun flying. My UPS buddy tells me I make more take off and landings a year than he does by far.

 

[RussR]

FAA flight check?

Correct!

 

[midlifeflyer]

Guess I should tell my daughter to stop calling me Daddy.

No need to if you can do both jobs the way you want to. Apparently many do. He felt the job would keep him away from home more than he felt was important to the "dad job."

 

[RussR]

@AggieMike88 , I wish you the best of luck in your new endeavors. I know that decision was not easy, given what you've been working on for the last few years. But if it's the right choice for you, it's the right choice for you.

Life is too short to do a job you're not interested in. I am curious though, and perhaps for others benefit as well, what about the job was revealed to you in training that you were not aware about before you accepted the offer? I'm genuinely curious

I also am genuinely curious. I can "assume" a lot of typical reasons, but I'm wondering what ultimately turned you off to the whole career, especially given you were still in training and therefore hadn't fully seen the "real" airline life yet. I am 100% positive that airline flying is not for me, and so while from time to time I briefly entertain the idea in my head, I just as quickly dismiss the idea for many of the typical reasons.

 

[murphey]

You decided to leave due to your QOL during training? That doesn't make sense. Once you are done you go back to training a couple days a year for recurrent.

Any training not completed will be viewed as a failure.

Because I fly only for fun, please explain this. Since Mike has no intentions of attempting/returning to 121, why does it matter?

 

[dmspilot]

Because I only for fun, please explain this. Since Mike has no intentions of attempting/returning to 121, why does it matter?

If you are not returning to 121, maybe it will, but it probably won't. But failing to complete training is a failure.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

There is quite a bit of hyperbole present here.

Good luck Mike. It has been a pleasure getting to know you. Next time I get a DFW overnight I’ll give you a call.

 

[Kritchlow]

I just don’t understand how anyone can judge the job by training. It’s two COMPLETELY different entities. Flying the line is a completely different world.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Because I only for fun, please explain this. Since Mike has no intentions of attempting/returning to 121, why does it matter?

It’s not a failure. It’s an artifact of imperfect government regulation. Part of the PRIA law was requiring airlines to document failures. Subsequently the requirement was added to require tracking of any training event and the outcome. Quitting because you decide you don’t like the employer or job is not an available choice. It’s either successful completion or unsuccessful.

If Mike ever applies to a job that requires a PRIA records check they will see that he started training at Piedmont and did not complete the training. There will be no records of any failures because he didn’t fail anything. It will be nothing more than a question asked and easily answered.

 

[dmspilot]

It’s not a failure. It’s an artifact of imperfect government regulation. Part of the PRIA law was requiring airlines to document failures. Subsequently the requirement was added to require tracking of any training event and the outcome. Quitting because you decide you don’t like the employer or job is not an available choice. It’s either successful completion or unsuccessful.

If Mike ever applies to a job that requires a PRIA records check they will see that he started training at Piedmont and did not complete the training. There will be no records of any failures because he didn’t fail anything. It will be nothing more than a question asked and easily answered.

It seems like you don't know how the industry works. If you are doing poorly, you will be asked to resign before you have a chance to officially fail anything. The airlines know how the game is played which is why they consider resigning during training to be a failure.

 

[Zeldman]

I can relate to that. It's also a common theme and complaint from some peers of mine who struggle [internally] vocationally after getting out of their mission oriented flying in the military. One of the reasons I am very interested in fixed wing EMS as a transition career from the military. The single pilot, short range and 7/7 out-n-back skeds is a big draw for me, provided I can convince the spouse on a domicile relocation of both our satisfaction. That's probably going to be the biggest hurdle for me. Otherwise, that job suits me like a glove in semi-retirement. I can imagine doing cargo EAS routes into underserved locations must have a very similar sense of social satisfaction, and flying challenge.

I did air ambulance for a number of years as well. I liked it because I felt like I was part of a team helping those that really needed help. I really enjoyed knowing when the phone rings I will have no idea where I am going. Then the ruff part like getting in from a trip at 2am, going home and taking a shower, then as I am laying down in my nice, warm bed, when the hair on my ear starts touching the fuzz on my pillow, the phone rings... up and out the door for another trip.

The really hard part was the kids, especially when they didn't make it. But mostly the job was rewarding, I felt good about myself, and it also put the fun back in flying.

 

[aftCG]

When flying for a living it can take the fun outta flying, for sure.

I found I enjoyed helping the good folks in Alaska more than helping the stock holders of some airline get rich. Watching a village cheer when bringing in supplies for the local trading post after a week long storm was very rewarding to me.

Plus I got to see a whole lot of things most airline pilots never see. I got to develop short field landings, off airport landings and get a steady supply of moose meat from hunting guides.

I'm doing 135 in Alaska right now. I started with enough hours to go 121 but I don't want to. I'm loving the challenging flying and direct contact with people who, as you say, appreciate what I'm doing.
I'll do it for as long as the world will let me

 

[dtuuri]

The airlines know how the game is played which is why they consider resigning during training to be a failure.

Maybe these days, but before PRIA I resigned from United Airlines during my IOE after coming back from a long furlough and leave of absence to honor commitments I made during that time. They tried hard to dissuade me and gave me a discharge form with a box checked that recommended I be rehired if I ever reapplied for employment. Don't see why @AggieMike88 can't have such a thing too.

 

[Kritchlow]

I’ve also done part 135 flying for a number of years. Most do not respect rest rules.
It’s easy to get suckered in to the wrong rules set by the company.

 

[saddletramp]

It's great that you did what was best for you. I simply love instructing. I instructed full time in my younger days, flew corporate & 135 for about seven years. I never was interested in the airlines & back in the 80's jobs were tough to get. After starting a family I quit flying & after a few different careers I spent around 30 years selling farm machinery. I liked it & it served me well financially. I retired two years ago.

A year & a half ago I went to work for a small FBO instructing again. Their business was a bit slow but now I'm swamped & we've hired two more instructors. I'm super glad that I returned to instructing & seem appreciated by my students. Most appreciate my experience & know I'm not leaving for a airline job. I also get to enjoy flying my own 182 too. You can't teach an old dog new tricsks...but an old dog can teach you to fly.

 

[jordane93]

It seems like you don't know how the industry works. If you are doing poorly, you will be asked to resign before you have a chance to officially fail anything. The airlines know how the game is played which is why they consider resigning during training to be a failure.

I’m 100% sure that @Tarheelpilot knows how it works.

 

[DavidWhite]

I'm doing 135 in Alaska right now. I started with enough hours to go 121 but I don't want to. I'm loving the challenging flying and direct contact with people who, as you say, appreciate what I'm doing.
I'll do it for as long as the world will let me
View attachment 112300
View attachment 112301

69ing Monkeys! I’ve flown that plane and I bet @Zeldman has too. Is that the new PQS runway? Kinda looks like it. Guessing you’re on your way to Tunt or Kong in the first one.

PS: Mike you should go fly in Alaska

 

[Zeldman]

I'm doing 135 in Alaska right now.

Cool.!!

Where ya based at.??

 

[murphey]

It's great that you did what was best for you. I simply love instructing. I instructed full time in my younger days, flew corporate & 135 for about seven years. I never was interested in the airlines & back in the 80's jobs were tough to get. After starting a family I quit flying & after a few different careers I spent around 30 years selling farm machinery. I liked it & it served me well financially. I retired two years ago.

A year & a half ago I went to work for a small FBO instructing again. Their business was a bit slow but now I'm swamped & we've hired two more instructors. I'm super glad that I returned to instructing & seem appreciated by my students. Most appreciate my experience & know I'm not leaving for a airline job. I also get to enjoy flying my own 182 too. You can't teach an old dog new tricsks...but an old dog can teach you to fly.

My dog hates to fly. He prefers I leave him at the doggy day care when I go flying. Hence we both get to have fun.

 

[Aviatorbrew]

Thank you.

one of my instructors went 121, decided it wasn’t for him either after a couple of weeks.

 

[aftCG]

69ing Monkeys! I’ve flown that plane and I bet @Zeldman has too. Is that the new PQS runway? Kinda looks like it. Guessing you’re on your way to Tunt or Kong in the first one.

PS: Mike you should go fly in Alaska

We call her Dirty Mike. Yes that was left base 04 PIlot Station. We were in the process of dropping 19k pounds of critical cargo (pizza rolls, gatorade, frozen waffles and the like) on the ramp from St Mary's. Lots of very short flights. I call it PKA/WNA with a view.
In the other one I was headed from Scammon Bay to Hooper Bay, which was just under the dark shelf in the distance (that weather had just blown over and was headed away, so it wasn't as sketchy as it looks).
On the ramp, PIlot Station during my most recent shift
Goodnews Bay, just before the weather changed
Because no adult supervision.

 

[aftCG]

Cool.!!

Where ya based at.??

YCS

 

[Zeldman]

We call her Dirty Mike. Yes that was left base 04 PIlot Station. We were in the process of dropping 19k pounds of critical cargo (pizza rolls, gatorade, frozen waffles and the like) on the ramp from St Mary's. Lots of very short flights. I call it PKA/WNA with a view.
In the other one I was headed from Scammon Bay to Hooper Bay, which was just under the dark shelf in the distance (that weather had just blown over and was headed away, so it wasn't as sketchy as it looks).
View attachment 112319 On the ramp, PIlot Station during my most recent shift
View attachment 112320 Goodnews Bay, just before the weather changed
View attachment 112321 Because no adult supervision.

Thanks for the pictures, that brings back some fond and not so fond memories.

I’ve flown that plane and I bet @Zeldman has too.

I had to go way back in the log book but yes, looks like I flew 69M out of Aniak back in the spring of '98... It was not GPS equipped and not IFR, so no IFR flying in it....

 

[TommyG]

Some people are bus drivers, some are not.

I made the decision to not pursue an airline career. It was not for ME.

That is exactly the truth. Myself and a handful of other pilots feel the same way.

 

[Dana]

When I was learning to fly or shortly thereafter, an airline pilot said to me, "I can see how much you love flying. Do yourself a favor and don't ever do it for a living."

But I had already read Richard Bach's Paradise is a Personal Thing:

"...I idly asked about the life of an airline pilot.

"Not a bad life at all. You feel guilty, after a couple of years, taking home a paycheck that size for doing something that you consider the best-possible fun. Naturally, you should be a good company man, that's only right. Your shoes are shined and your tie is tied. You follow all regulations, of course, and you join the union, and you keep your hair cut per company policy, and it is not wise to suggest improvements in flying technique to pilots longer employed than yourself.

"The list went on, but about that time I began to feel strange little gnawings from within, from the inner man. Why, I could have the greatest attitude in the world for learning the airplane and its systems, I could strive harder than anybody to train uncanny abilities in controlling the machine, could fly it with absolute precision. But if my hair wasn't policy-short, then I wouldn't be quite the perfect man for the job. And if I refused to carry the union card, oddly enough, I wouldn't be a good company man. And if I ever told the captain how to fly...

"The more I listened, the more I found out... I wouldn't make a good airline pilot, after all, and with a born suspicion of all company policies, I would most likely be a terrible airline pilot.

"So I returned to my little biplane and I changed the oil and started the engine and taxied out to fly, collar unbuttoned, shoes all scuffed, hair two weeks uncut..."​

 

[aftCG]

Thanks for the pictures, that brings back some fond and not so fond memories.



I had to go way back in the log book but yes, looks like I flew 69M out of Aniak back in the spring of '98... It was not GPS equipped and not IFR, so no IFR flying in it....

Yep. Still has never seen the inside of a cloud. Or ice.

 

[Albany Tom]

When I was learning to fly or shortly thereafter, an airline pilot said to me, "I can see how much you love flying. Do yourself a favor and don't ever do it for a living."

But I had already read Richard Bach's Paradise is a Personal Thing:

"...I idly asked about the life of an airline pilot.
....​

Change the words of Bach's bit around a little, and it sounds like a few engineers I knew in the late 80's working for GE CRD and IBM Fishkill. It takes big business to make interesting thing mind numbingly tedious.

 

[Dana]

Change the words of Bach's bit around a little, and it sounds like a few engineers I knew in the late 80's working for GE CRD and IBM Fishkill. It takes big business to make interesting thing mind numbingly tedious.

Yup, I worked at Sikorsky for a short time in the late 80s. It was a miserable experience. Next job was a two bit company with 20 employees, they went broke after a few years but it was a lot of fun while it lasted.

 

[cowtowner]

Simuflite is begging for instructors. Have a couple of buddies over there and they are losing guys to the airlines (generally for their sim training) daily.

 

[TCABM]

FSI has the same challenges I hear.

 

[Everskyward]

I would have been a terrible airline pilot, and unhappy. So I didn't. Even though many, many people told me that I should apply.

 

[AggieMike88]

Simuflite is begging for instructors. Have a couple of buddies over there and they are losing guys to the airlines (generally for their sim training) daily.

Do you have any inside contacts to share?

 

[CJones]

We call her Dirty Mike. Yes that was left base 04 PIlot Station. We were in the process of dropping 19k pounds of critical cargo (pizza rolls, gatorade, frozen waffles and the like) on the ramp from St Mary's. Lots of very short flights. I call it PKA/WNA with a view.
In the other one I was headed from Scammon Bay to Hooper Bay, which was just under the dark shelf in the distance (that weather had just blown over and was headed away, so it wasn't as sketchy as it looks).
View attachment 112319 On the ramp, PIlot Station during my most recent shift
View attachment 112320 Goodnews Bay, just before the weather changed
View attachment 112321 Because no adult supervision.

Thread creep...

I've seen this on various 'flying in Alaska' shows but never knew for sure..

What is this doo-dad for? My guesses are that it's there to prevent snow/ice buildup on the tires? Maybe a very durable mud/rock flap to keep gravel out of the elevator? Maybe a hard attach point for skis or floats?

 

[kayoh190]

I would have been a terrible airline pilot, and unhappy. So I didn't. Even though many, many people told me that I should apply.

I think the airline gig eventually works for a lot of folks, but it's obviously not for everyone. I've found there's a tendency for pilots (or just people in general?) to think that what works for them should work for others, which of course is not the case. I'm always happy when people figure this stuff out early - the worst guys to fly with are the ones that never did.

 

[kayoh190]

No need to if you can do both jobs the way you want to. Apparently many do. He felt the job would keep him away from home more than he felt was important to the "dad job."

It was a TIC comment - I definitely understand! Saying good night to my daughter via FaceTime suuuucks. I had a late start on the kiddo thing, which has the advantage of seniority allowing me to be home substantially more than someone just getting started - especially at the regional level. There are several disadvantages too, but they're beyond the scope of the thread.

 

[DavidWhite]

Thread creep...

I've seen this on various 'flying in Alaska' shows but never knew for sure..

What is this doo-dad for? My guesses are that it's there to prevent snow/ice buildup on the tires? Maybe a very durable mud/rock flap to keep gravel out of the elevator? Maybe a hard attach point for skis or floats?
View attachment 112330

It’s the first step to get into the airplane for people who can’t read. The second one is usually the strut fairing.

They’re combo mud/gravel flaps. They do help quite a bit.

 

[Zeldman]

Thread creep...

I've seen this on various 'flying in Alaska' shows but never knew for sure..

What is this doo-dad for? My guesses are that it's there to prevent snow/ice buildup on the tires? Maybe a very durable mud/rock flap to keep gravel out of the elevator? Maybe a hard attach point for skis or floats?

It is a gravel guard. We call it mud flap, like on trucks. After landing and applying brakes, gravel will be kicked up from the tire into the leading edge of the elevator. Also on muddy landing surfaces mud will be kicked up onto the bottom of the wing. It helps stop the damage.

I have seen planes with the leading edge of the tail feathers absolutely beat to snot.

 

[Matthew]

It is a gravel guard. We call it mud flap, like on trucks. After landing and applying brakes, gravel will be kicked up from the tire into the leading edge of the elevator. Also on muddy landing surfaces mud will be kicked up onto the bottom of the wing. It helps stop the damage.

I have seen planes with the leading edge of the tail feathers absolutely beat to snot.

Our local FBO had 2 rentals that had been a part of a fish and wildlife agency somewhere in a previous life. They spent a lot of time on gravel strips and yes, the leading edges on those tail surfaces were really beat up.

 

[aftCG]

I can't find my picture of the bottom of the wing (I'll have a new one in the next day or so).
Those devices do a great job of keeping rocks from beating the tail to pulp but they don't do jack for mud.