Thinking about moving to the midwest late this year

If you don't like humidity, most anywhere east of the Rockies is a no-go for summer time. Cities in the Southwest are a total sprawl and have terrible traffic. So you have to decide which you hate more, traffic or humidity.

I would not recommend NC as it has both terrible traffic and terrible humidity. NC is so full of New Yorkers these days anyway that I don't think you'll find much of a change in attitude at least within the cities, plus the schools are crap.

If you want good schools, the northern plains states are usually a good bet. Wisconsin and Minnesota have long held reputations for excellent public schools.

I work for a largish regional bank as a BA here in KC and used to work as a risk analyst for Morgan Stanley. There are a number of financial firms based here, Commerce, UMB, American Century, Wadell & Reed, DST, and BATS off the top of my head. Sprint (don't work for Sprint if you can avoid it), Cerner, AMC and a few others have a large presence in KC and of course Garmin. But I rarely see any BA gigs at Garmin which I find odd. KC has a strong Agile community as well if that's your gig, my experience with the big NY firms is that they aren't Agile (yet). Winters in KC are colder for sure than NYC but we don't get nearly the snow. Usually less than a foot the whole winter and a big snow here is 4 inches, we do get ice storms which are a hoot. Summers get hot and humid, less humid in July and August when it's just plain hot but it's never a dry heat.

The Northern suburbs on the Missouri side are growing the fastest but the Kansas suburbs are more established. KOJC and KIXD both have active flying clubs. To give you an idea what rental rates are here, check out NCAS at KIXD.

http://newcenturyairservice.com/aircraft-rental/

C172 $110 wet
C177RG $135 wet
PA32 $175 wet
PA34 $235 wet

Pretty tough to beat that for a wet rate and no monthly fee.
 
I was raised in NYC, left and will never look back. I've lived in Terre Haute, IN (an hour west of Indianapolis), Cincinnati, and now Kansas City. I've also spent time in Lincoln and Omaha. Personally I would avoid Ohio and Indiana (no offense who those who live there). Nebraska and Kansas are great states to live in, so is Iowa. What I like about KC is there's a lot to do, it's a nice city, you can get lots of land if you want it, get an apartment if you want it, or anything in between. Coming from NYC the prices are nothing for, well, everything.

I found the atmosphere and general attitudes of people in Ohio and Indiana to be poor. Some people are helpful, most are lazy, and we just didn't enjoy living there. So I would avoid it. People in Kansas are extremely nice and helpful. I found that to be the case in Nebraska and Iowa, too, but haven't lived there. Aviation anywhere in the midwest is pretty good, so it really comes down to climate and atmosphere.

Summers here in KC are humid, although I don't find it terrible compared to NYC. There are a lot of lakes, but no oceans nearby. But you can fly to the ocean or to the mountains from here in a pretty reasonable amount of time. It's warmer here than Ohio year round. Winters are nice.

I grew up in a 2-bedroom apartment in Manhattan. Now we have 11 acres. Yeah, about as oppose as it comes. I love it. :)
 
Morro Bay, CA.

Doesn't fit basically any of your needs, but it's my favorite town that I've ever been to.

You're welcome. ;)
 
What do you do for a living? I live in Lincoln Nebraska and work for a successful financial startup headquartered in NYC.

I opened an engineering office for them in Nebraska and have been building up the Nebraska team.

If you have some software engineering experience send me a pm!
 
I'll put a vote in for the Des Moines area. Nice sized city with a great atmosphere and a good sized financial services/insurance industry.
 
Texas...but its not Midwest...plan on going somewhere in August though....Low Taxes, Low Cost of Living, nice GA options, and we were our own Country once and probably should go back to doing it that way....
 
Rykymus said:
Agree with the advice to stay away from California. Live here my whole life, and this state is a complete joke. If it wasn't for the fact that my wife doesn't want to leave her job, we'd have moved out of state long ago.

I'd list the reasons to stay away, but I'd by typing all day.
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I feel your pain, I didn't grow up in California, but I've lived here most of my adult life. If 'circumstances' changed and was free to move wherever I want, I would probably....

Still stay here, at least before I become an old man. With all of it's f-d up governance and high costs of living, is a very nice place to fly GA, or ride bicycles, or motorcycles, or taste wine, etc.... If I move out of California, I would most likely move out of the country. The old white guys in Southeast Asia tend to be very happy old white guys, if you know what I mean. And I do know a few.

I was born in the midwest. I never lived in the midwest, but I've visited the midwest and I've never had a desire to live in the midwest.
 
I'd like to go to either the Shelbyville, TN area, or the Shenandoah region of Virginia. I need hills, and the occasional pond to land in.
 
blueskyMD said:
Fort Wayne IN.
I lived there for 10 years. 2nd largest city of IN. Schools are good.
If I can convince my wife I will go back to FW in a heartbeat
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I was at the Ft. Wayne Theological Seminary to gear up for my 3rd (4th?) career.
Nice folks.
 
If you hate humidity, keep going until at least the Rockies. I'd look at New Mexico, or maybe the southwestern corner of South Dakota.
 
orange said:
I didn't know that Midwest summers are hot and humid.
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As a preface, I grew up in places considered hot and humid, some more humid than hot. Like the Philippines. The Caribbean. Guam. And I regularly work in Southeast Asia one to two months out of the year.

But, the worst heat and humidity experience I had, was in the Midwest. Someplace south of Chicago. Chicago has that lake cooling effect. Michigan has that lake cooling effect. Get away from the lake and you don't have that lake cooling effect.

I was visiting my folks, got up in the morning to go for a run one fine August morning, and I couldn't do it. I simply couldn't do it. I was wiped. I was drenched with sweat and I came back and just sat under the cool running water of the shower for about a half hour. My dad's comment? "Why the hell are you trying to do that?"
 
Have you considered the Lehigh Valley? It's a huge change from NYC, but only 60 miles away so its easy to get your fix when you need it. No place like NYC for sure.

I really enjoy flying out of KABE.
 
orange said:
nMy colleagues and I found out recently that our cushy jobs may be coming to an end either late this year or early next. We worked for one of the biggest Wall Street companies out there but our department got sold late last year. The company that bought us is planning to use their own analysts to do the heavy lifting (pricing, biz analysts, trading, IT), and export most of the other jobs to India, Ireland, and Israel because foreign workers are more economically viable for them.

Anyway, if it happens (there will be some people spared as I understand), I'm thinking about taking my substantial severance and moving to the Midwest. I'm tired of the hustle and bustle of the big city, everybody always in a big hurry. I'm type A but I need a change, it's tiring. I never bought into the notion that NY'ers are ass--holes but recently I started noticing that many kind of are. I'm looking to settle down in a quiet community outside the big city where my kids can have a more peaceful life. I don't expect that I'll be able to make the money that I'm making now but cost of living is lower also, so it all balances out. I'm looking at suburbs around Indianapolis, Chicago, maybe even Wisconsin. While availability of rentals, costs, airports, etc is something that I want to look at, it won't be a deal breaker.

I know it's a very generalized question, but with that said, which of these areas are best for GA?

I've been with the company right out of college, since 2000. My only job and never needed to look for work or thought about moving. I'm sure you guys have gone through moves to different parts of the country and job changes. Any advice?

Thanks in advance.
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I grew up in Northern Indiana and lived all over the country. Came to the Pacific Northwest in 1960 and never looked back. My midwest flying experience is limited to enroute stops while ferrying planes across the country, so not much help there.

Bob Gardner
 
Warlock said:
Texas...but its not Midwest...plan on going somewhere in August though....Low Taxes, Low Cost of Living, nice GA options, and we were our own Country once and probably should go back to doing it that way....
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No personal taxes but property taxes can take a huge bite. Austin doesn't understand it's in Texas, it's its own country and definitely wierd. And proud of it, too! (grammar police, have at it!) 'Burbs of Dallas can be nice. Did time in Houston, won't even go back to visit relatives I hate the city so much.

Further west are Denver (traffic has already become a nightmare), Salt Lake City & Ogden. North of Denver is Longmont - great place, but I don't know about the job market. COS is a military town. You're either in the military, retired from the military, or working on a military contract. If I had to move right now, it would be Longmont. We're not in the mountains - on the plains. Might get chilly but snow rarely lasts more than a few days. Biggest advantage? No one on either coast pays any attention to anything going on in the Mountain Time Zone.
 
bobmrg said:
I grew up in Northern Indiana and lived all over the country. Came to the Pacific Northwest in 1960 and never looked back. My midwest flying experience is limited to enroute stops while ferrying planes across the country, so not much help there.

Bob Gardner
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They don't call it flyover country for nothing.
 
Shepherd said:
I'd like to go to either the Shelbyville, TN area, or the Shenandoah region of Virginia. I need hills, and the occasional pond to land in.
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giphy.gif
 
KC is in the middle of everything, which means it's also a long way to anywhere. Sort of. Fortunately, Southwest can get you pretty much anywhere in just a few hours. Chicago for a day or weekend trip? Easy. Denver is less than 2 hrs away in the opposite direction. Dallas is 2 hrs south. A 2 hr drive gets you into the middle of the Flint Hills, and it's an even shorter trip via GA.

My daughter lived in Fort Collins, CO for a couple years and I could move there in an instant - but then I remember their cost of living. My folks retired in CO, and every time I visit I want to move to the mountains like they did - but then I remember their cost of living. And so, here I am.

KC summers: It's actually rare that we hit 100F. We will, but not for too many days in a row. 104-106 would be about as hot as I remember it getting. Humidity levels can be high, but not as steamy as I remember S/E Virginia when I used to live there. That does tend to add another 10+ deg to temps for the heat index, so 105-110F heat indices aren't unusual. The gulf humidity swirls up here in the summer - we get big T-storms and tornadoes from that, but we also get some outstanding convection for soaring conditions, too. There are still plenty of hot, dry, windless days where the cicadas can make you deaf.

KC winters: Below zero, but not generally for too many days in a row. A cold spell would be 20F for a week at a time. Snow can happen, but normally we'll have 2"-4" snows maybe 3-5 times. It has plenty of time to melt or sublimate until next time. Every few years we'll get a good 10"-14" snow one time, sometimes twice. Ice storms are another hazard, but they don't come around on a regular basis either. Winters are just mostly cold and dry. Coldest I remember was abut -23F almost 25 years ago.
 
Content here in SE WI, but we all enjoy different things. Check the State out when you come to Oshkosh this Summer.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Personally I would avoid Ohio and Indiana (no offense who those who live there).
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"No offense," says he, just before thrusting in an offensive dagger:

Ted DuPuis said:
I found the atmosphere and general attitudes of people in Ohio and Indiana to be poor. Some people are helpful, most are lazy, and we just didn't enjoy living there. So I would avoid it.
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Well, maybe you can explain why Cleveland, where I was born and around which I grew up was supposed to be a junior base when I got hired at United Airlines, but in reality it was impossible to get based there. Seems once the low totem-polers on the seniority list found out the "mistake on the lake" had an Emerald Necklace, all the cultural attractions one needs, reasonable traffic, affordable housing, great ethnic restaurants, shopping, boating and flying and skiing and professional sports teams and music and museums--why the out-of-towners took up roots and made this homeboy get based in Chicago--no openings in Cleveland! Ever! So, I quit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Metroparks
dtuuri
 
I don't live there, but I vacation there and California is a great place to fly. Warm climate, 6 different climates. Coast, coastal mountains, interior deserts and plains, foothills, high mountains and high plains east of mountains. It has it all. Get away from LA or the Bay Area and you find small towns with all the ammenities. There are some really deserted places in California. Great place to fly small plane too. Lots of airports. There is always something interesting going on in the arts, music, technology whatever. High taxes and high real estate but not so bad if you live remote in less popular places. Me I live in Colorado, but if I were to move it would be to California.

Some of those midwest towns would be great place to raise a family though. Like Debuque Iowa.
 
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Give Milwaukee a look. Some points:

Several banks and financial services hq here.
Several major manufacturers based here
1hr train ride direct to downtown Chicago.
Low cost of living
Traffic is light
Major league sports teams in new stadiums
Top quality art museum
Good GA community (IMO)
Big motorbike community
Great rebirth of urban area... but still 20 minutes from sleepy Midwest prewar neighborhoods or newer suburbs as well
Winter can be long, fall is great. Usually not much snow just cold.
Cool, moderate crystal clear summers
Beer, did I mention beer? And biergartens.
Worlds largest summer music festival
We pretend we're hip east coasters but we're in bed by 10.

Come visit... delta has/had 5+ directs per day LGA-MKE for about $300 round trip last I went to NYC.
 
Hate humidity? Think southwest high desert. Like blue sky flying? Think 500 vfr days per year. (Ok, not really but almost) Hate hot days? High desert. Like cool nights? High desert.

Once a person learns how to live with native americans, they are really great people to be around.
 
If you like cold weather... Grand Forks, North Dakota! Very busy airport
 
LOTS of flat lands to put your bird down if the fan stops running. Winter sucks, summer too. ... sorry to hear about your job

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Worked and lived all over the US. Lived in PA, IL,MN,FL, AK, SD, MI, TN, NV and MD. They all have there own good points. Work brought me to AK and I'm happy it did, expensive but manageable. Here is how I rank the states I have lived.

1. AK, I live in the state capital 30,000 people rush hour is 45 minuets long, great scenery, folks are fairly casual, great outdoor activities such as hiking, hunting, fishing, camping
2. SD, lived in the SW corner in the Black Hills. Can' say enough good about the folks and the outdoor adventures and scenery.
3. MI and MN, cold winters, hot summers, great fishing/hunting/camping.
4. NV, high desert, met some nice folks could not handle the desert heat
5. MD, to close to the big city, lots to do but I hate traffic.
6. PA, loved the mountains, fishing, hunting, camping.
7. IL, stay away from Chicago
8. FL, hot and humid in the summer, a good place to go in the winter months

Wherever you end up, I hope you like it and can call it home....:)
 
Having been born and raised in Central / Northern Indiana and have lived/worked in Illinois and Ohio, I will second the Carolina's as a much better alternative. I lived in Huntersville and worked in a suburb of Charlotte. The quality of life there is an order of magnitude better than "the mid-West". As someone mentioned, Charlotte is a finance hub so both finance and IT opportunities there. South Carolina has become the new Detroit and there are lots of opportunities in the manufacturing sector.

For pilots, there are numerous small airports and fly-in communities (take a look at http://bestrealestatelakenorman.com...ke-norman-airpark-community-in-mooresville-nc). From Charlotte you are just an hour or so from the Outer Banks by plane ... try Ocracoke for a weekend (https://www.ocracokevillage.com/). You are also a rather short flight from Florida. Raleigh / Durham is a tech / entrepreneurial / education hub with same access. And I forgot the mountains, which are just a short flight / drive away. Compare this to the frigid winters and flat lands of Indiana/Ohio/Illinois ... I'll pass, never again.
 
orange said:
Traffic- I have grown tired of NYC traffic. And NY drivers in general, they are always in a big hurry and mostly classless. They won't let you merge or let u turn left if they are driving in opposite direction. Then you have morons who wait until the very last second before the exit to try and force their way in front of you instead of waiting in line like most others. And the petty accidents, luckily I've only had a couple. But I had some guy sideswipe me on Saturday. I was going to the mall with my daughter and making a right turn from the right lane. A guy comes out of nowhere like a maniac driving on the parking lane and tries to pass me on the right as I'm making the right turn. Of course he smacked right into my right side. He pulls up half a block later and I behind him. I took a picture of his car and him walking towards me, but he didn't notice I guess. He comes over looks at my car and tries to get me to not call the cops. But it's a lease. so it has to go through insurance. Once he sees that I'm calling 911, he jumps in his car and takes off tires screeching. Luckily, I had his plate and face in the pic. His insurance told me this morning that they are taking 100% responsibility and mailing me the check for the damage. This kind of nonsense where if you drive like a normal person you get cursed at by classless idiots. I have young kids, so I don't drive like a typical NY'er. Just want some more relaxed normal people to deal with. Went to a wedding in Toledo, Ohio. Seemed like a nice small city feel. Only spent 2 days there.


Taxes- I agree NYC 3 tax system is a joke. When single, I was paying over 50%. Now it's 40.

Aviation- it's a hobby and I'm sure I could find it in most places or near by. Not a huge concern honestly, the family is first.
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Sounds like Chicago is the place for you. No traffic, never any road construction, taxes are low (so is crime), and they cherish their GA airports. Meigs airfield is a cherished part of their downtown and brings lots of business to the community. You can land there and take a taxi 10 minutes to the Miracle Mile.
 
PPC1052 said:
Sounds like Chicago is the place for you. No traffic, never any road construction, taxes are low (so is crime), and they cherish their GA airports. Meigs airfield is a cherished part of their downtown and brings lots of business to the community. You can land there and take a taxi 10 minutes to the Miracle Mile.
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Not to get banned but in addition, the politicians are all really nice honest people.

Cheers
 
orange said:
Anyway, if it happens (there will be some people spared as I understand), I'm thinking about taking my substantial severance and moving to the Midwest. I'm tired of the hustle and bustle of the big city, everybody always in a big hurry. I'm type A but I need a change, it's tiring. I never bought into the notion that NY'ers are ass--holes but recently I started noticing that many kind of are. I'm looking to settle down in a quiet community outside the big city where my kids can have a more peaceful life. I don't expect that I'll be able to make the money that I'm making now but cost of living is lower also, so it all balances out. I'm looking at suburbs around Indianapolis, Chicago, maybe even Wisconsin. While availability of rentals, costs, airports, etc is something that I want to look at, it won't be a deal breaker.

I know it's a very generalized question, but with that said, which of these areas are best for GA?
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Michigan has a fairly reasonable DOT that supports GA and issues a paper chart annually as well as a very nice booklet containing info about state airports and facilities that is better in many respects than the A/FD (now Chart Supplement). On the down side, there is a one-time 6% use tax if you purchase a plane or bring one into the state unless you paid the tax elsewhere.

I grew up in Michigan and lived the first nearly 60 years of my life there, only moved here when my position at a state university was axed due to budget cuts. The cost of living in MI is substantially lower than anywhere Out East and the taxes are reasonable. I owned a condo in the Detroit suburbs and never paid more than $1000 on property taxes, though suburban houses in some districts pay much more than that. In short, once you pay the use tax, it's possible to live cheaply enough in MI to easily afford to own an airplane even if your job pays only a modest salary.

OTOH, if all you want to do is get out of the rat race, there are plenty of places in rural New England that fit the bill. Here in north central VT the pace of life is much slower than I was used to, the summers aren't too hot, the people are congenial and community spirit is very high, and the natural beauty of the area can't be beat. But you do pay a price for that, and owning an airplane here is much more difficult even if you are making good money.
 
Sac Arrow said:
As a preface, I grew up in places considered hot and humid, some more humid than hot. Like the Philippines. The Caribbean. Guam. And I regularly work in Southeast Asia one to two months out of the year.

But, the worst heat and humidity experience I had, was in the Midwest. Someplace south of Chicago. Chicago has that lake cooling effect. Michigan has that lake cooling effect. Get away from the lake and you don't have that lake cooling effect.

I was visiting my folks, got up in the morning to go for a run one fine August morning, and I couldn't do it. I simply couldn't do it. I was wiped. I was drenched with sweat and I came back and just sat under the cool running water of the shower for about a half hour. My dad's comment? "Why the hell are you trying to do that?"
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I lived in Virginia Beach for 20 years and Tampa for 10 so I got a pretty good handle on humidity.

When I was up in the Chicago area, I was 50 miles (west) of Lake Michigan. It was so dry, I had to install a humidifier in our house otherwise the wood floors (and our skin) would dry out and crack.

So I don't know where you were around Chicago, but it must have been a pocket of humidity.
 
There are a lot of people looking for work in the mid-west, too, so one imagines you are looking the market over carefully and have already concluded that a hot-shot from New York is not going to walk into the best job in town. Culture shock works both ways. The locations you mentioned are not going to be as polar opposite to Queens as some, but you probably already know that Madison, WI, Iowa City, IA, Lincoln, NE, Austin, TX, Sioux Falls, SD and similar towns are not representative of most of the mid-west. Many people in the more rural parts of fly-over country like it that way and can't imagine why anyone would live in New York or California but are glad they do.

The point is there is a lot of reverse snobbism in the mid-west and an overt New York culture draws out the worst of it. Your comment that you'd like to slow down shows you understand a NY approach will only get frowns or blank looks outside the bigger or more liberal cities in the mid-west. One can take the boy out of NY, but can one take NY out of the boy? The few NY ex-pats I know would never go back but even those here for decades retain a touch of NY in them and it doesn't always go down smooth.

There are very good schools in the upper mid-west. MN, IA, WI and so forth, but it is location, location, location there, too. There are some less than good schools, too. The rural schools are like pablum. Unexciting.

A lower cost of living may still mean cheaper aviation is relatively expensive. What do you want to fly? Gliders? SEL? Twins? Aviation maintenance facilities are consolidating and good rag wing mechanics are getting harder to find in some spots. The young want to work on turbines. There is probably a lot of opportunity in GA here for someone who has had to work out of Queens. EAA is pretty active and there are a lot of pilots to hangar talk with in many locations. It can be cliquish (as can many things in the smaller town atmosphere.) There are fly-in breakfasts half the year and many other such events to participate in if you like that.

The areas you mention may be a good fit for you. I've spent some months in Minneapolis in the summer and liked it. I was younger and more liberal then. I've never spent much time in Chicago but don't like it. I spent two years in St. Louis and didn't like it. KC might be nice.

Not being close to the Met is probably not a big deal - how many times do you go to the Met now? But you won't get as many radio stations, TV shows (except the Dish junk), newspapers, major sports and such. Some of the larger and even smaller mid-west towns have serious race (or culture) conflicts with shootings even in medium sized Iowa towns on a scale that were undreamed of 20 years ago.

Back to your question about GA, my suspicion is you can have as much aviation as you want and can afford in about any of the locations you mentioned and more. There will be a hangar waiting list but you can get in.
 
PPC1052 said:
Sounds like Chicago is the place for you. No traffic, never any road construction, taxes are low (so is crime), and they cherish their GA airports. Meigs airfield is a cherished part of their downtown and brings lots of business to the community. You can land there and take a taxi 10 minutes to the Miracle Mile.
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You need to add a sarcasm alert or emoji to this post lest some on here believe you. There are some who might just think it is true. ;):D


Not me of course, I left that steaming pile of poo and moved to NC. And I'm loving it.
 
I would s=2nd or 3rd or 4th that Chicago is a hassle. I never lived there but my job took me there a couple times a month for several years. The traffic and expense of living in that area is not for me. I grew up and live in north east Ohio for my entire life. I don't mind living near a large city but I don't want to work in one. You spend way too much time in the car.
For about 10 years I worked in Cleveland and a 40 minute drive turns into an hour and a half commute. I was spending 2-3 hours a day in the car. I now work 30 miles away in Canton and it takes me less than 1/2 hour to get to work. When I left the other job I felt like I was working half days. Life is too short to put up with that aggravation.
Someone mentioned Charlotte. I have made about 20 trips there in the last few years. I really like the area but the traffic is very bad. It seems like the population has outgrown the infrastructure. The people there tell me you really need to be careful about where you live vs where you work. If you have to cross the city in your commute it can be rough.
Good luck - it sounds like you are planning your future instead of accepting the hand you were dealt.
Good approach.
 
Most big cities are a hassle. Every last one of them has traffic problems. Other problems will weed out the worst of them you wouldn't consider living in. Detroit thinks, and advertises, that it is making a come back but the population exodus continues and there are vacant areas there in which one could do considerable farming. The suburbs as far north as Pontiac are getting crowded and with that comes traffic woes. Being honest, I can only say Michigan roads, especially in the metro area, suck big time. In the rural counties roads are much better and there is far less traffic. Smaller towns-Ann Arbor comes to mind- fare much better but the influx of people and the attendant traffic is making that city much less than desirable. Freeways in the metro area are a challenge even to the State Police. They sit and watch them for the most part. Smart move for them because some folks drive like fools on them.

Got caught in the Denver rush hour while returning from Salida to Fort Collins. Getting through Denver took longer than the rest of the trip.
 
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