Thinking about moving to the midwest late this year

Best drive I had through Denver on I-25 was on a Sunday afternoon during a Broncos game. The highway was deserted.
 
I gave my two cents early on, but I've enjoyed this thread a ton. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences, perceptions and opinions.
 
Norman said:
Most big cities are a hassle. Every last one of them has traffic problems. Other problems will weed out the worst of them you wouldn't consider living in. Detroit thinks, and advertises, that it is making a come back but the population exodus continues and there are vacant areas there in which one could do considerable farming. The suburbs as far north as Pontiac are getting crowded and with that comes traffic woes. Being honest, I can only say Michigan roads, especially in the metro area, suck big time. In the rural counties roads are much better and there is far less traffic. Smaller towns-Ann Arbor comes to mind- fare much better but the influx of people and the attendant traffic is making that city much less than desirable. Freeways in the metro area are a challenge even to the State Police. They sit and watch them for the most part. Smart move for them because some folks drive like fools on them.

Got caught in the Denver rush hour while returning from Salida to Fort Collins. Getting through Denver took longer than the rest of the trip.
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On the plus side, you can buy enough property in Detroit to make a rather large airfield for like 600 bucks. The pricey part would be demolishing the 60 homes on that land you just bought.
 
ircphoenix said:
On the plus side, you can buy enough property in Detroit to make a rather large airfield for like 600 bucks. The pricey part would be demolishing the 60 homes on that land you just bought.
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The pricey part will be keeping your wheels before you touch down. :devil:
 
Grew up in CID and currently live here. It is nice but not a lot to do. It is a medium sized Midwest city though so take it with a grain of salt. We used to live in ICT and loved it other than the distance to the rest of our family here in Iowa. Kansas get's hated on a lot but Wichita was great with a decent amount to do if you were willing to look. When I got laid off from Lear we wanted to end up in KC or DSM but life thought otherwise. I would highly suggest either one of those as they have a good amount to do for pretty much everyone. DSM especially is nice as it is right at I35 and I80 so you are a max of a five hour drive from KC, Chicago and Minny.

Weather wise it can get hot and humid in the summer but in general it doesn't last more than a few days to a week or so at a time. Winter it all depends. along the I-70 corridor (KC) you will get snow but it won't last long and usually melts within a few days. In ICT we would get snow and most times it will melt within a day. One caveat is once you get that far south they don't handle snow well so what they do get can be debilitating. KC handles it well. ICT does not especially when you get 4-5+ inches as the City of Wichita does not plow residential streets (which made the 14" storm a *****). Winter temps in the 40s are normal in this area. Get up along I-80 (DSM and CID) is about the same in the summer as farther south but winter will be in the 30s. We can get more snow up here but not a ton. Most people have snowblowers but it is not necessary (probably just jinxed us for next year).

Flying wise every city has FBOs or flying clubs for you to join with great airports all around.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I loved Cali,

The cost of living is comparable to New York but the Ocean is waaaaay too cold for me. You have to wear a wet suit to go in every time!
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Speak to me of these place were no wet suites are required....
 
donjohnston said:
I lived in Virginia Beach for 20 years and Tampa for 10 so I got a pretty good handle on humidity.

When I was up in the Chicago area, I was 50 miles (west) of Lake Michigan. It was so dry, I had to install a humidifier in our house otherwise the wood floors (and our skin) would dry out and crack.

So I don't know where you were around Chicago, but it must have been a pocket of humidity.
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Here in Reno, the humidity today is 20% and it looks like rain. Anywhere near Chicago is humid.
 
A buddy bolted to Austin Texas, from metro DC, and hasn't looked back. Having lived in metro DC, and CA, and WA, I'd stay somewhere in the "Middle" - avoid the left coast and northeast, unless you're not concerned about taxes or government over reach. If you like bigger urban areas, I'd also avoid Atlanta. Maybe consider Dallas? I didn't care for Houston, myself, and Denver is fairly "lefty" now. Again, if bucks aren't an issue, and you don't mind paying other people's bills, it might be O.K. Chicago is interesting - you might look into Dupage county, out of the city?
 
KC 'burbs right now: 5:40pm, 78F with a feels-like of 78F.

Sitting on the deck, the bourbon is being sipped on the rocks, the breeze is nice and cool, the sun is warm, the birds are trying to tell each other who's boss, Pandora is tuned to Depeche Mode, getting ready to fire up the grill for steaks, and a train is going by about 2 miles from here.

Life is good.
 
While not what people think of "Midwest" Pittsburgh is far more Midwestern-like than east coast. Plus you keep your closer proximity to the ocean, mountains an hour away, Lake Erie 2 hours. GA out of AGC, BVI, etc. is not bad. Traffic sucks at times but nothing like NYC. Humidity is less than the true "Midwest." I've been in the Dayton area for 10 years now (wife is from here) and still haven't gotten used to the humidity when the corn tassles out here compared to back home in PA.
 
Todd82 said:
While not what people think of "Midwest" Pittsburgh is far more Midwestern-like than east coast. Plus you keep your closer proximity to the ocean, mountains an hour away, Lake Erie 2 hours. GA out of AGC, BVI, etc. is not bad. Traffic sucks at times but nothing like NYC. Humidity is less than the true "Midwest." I've been in the Dayton area for 10 years now (wife is from here) and still haven't gotten used to the humidity when the corn tassles out here compared to back home in PA.
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I also enjoy Pittsburgh a lot, having traveled through PIT 5-6 times a year for 4+ years. I love the hills, the people are nice, and unless one of the tunnels is shut down, traffic moves well enough except around downtown at rush hour on game nights (hockey, baseball, football). It has a similar feel to KC and Tulsa/OKC except with a lot more history. It's actually fairly similar in population size, too.




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A tiny bit farther west than Wisconsin you'll find the "Little Apple" (Minneapolis). We have a large network of GA airports (seven with paved runways, 4 with control towers, all with approaches). We're also very high on the "Best places to live list. I live 25 minutes from Downtown Mpls (35 in morning traffic) on five acres of woods and a small lake. I grew up in the Detroit area, lived a while near Chicago, and from almost every perspective this area is way better. Minneapolis has a reputation as a place with a cold climate and it does get 5-10° colder here in the winter but it's nowhere near as cold as northern Minnesota. Summers are rather pleasant most days with average highs in the low to mid 80s with no more than a few days with high humidity.

Lots of good schools if you have kids, plenty of recreational and cultural opportunities as well.

Probably the biggest downside is the way winter storms mess up traffic but that's usually no more than about 10 days each year.
 
Matthew said:
KC 'burbs right now: 5:40pm, 78F with a feels-like of 78F.

Sitting on the deck, the bourbon is being sipped on the rocks, the breeze is nice and cool, the sun is warm, the birds are trying to tell each other who's boss, Pandora is tuned to Depeche Mode, getting ready to fire up the grill for steaks, and a train is going by about 2 miles from here.

Life is good.
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Matthew,

From a man whose hobby is full sized trains and has some friends who ply the rails and do other things to keep trains running I think you need to get closer to the tracks to really appreciate and enjoy them. That from a guy who used to lie in bed waiting for the lonesome sound of a steam whistle when he was a kid of that era in the fifties and early sixties. Back then each engineer had his own signature with steam whistles , and some could almost play a tune on them.

Those sounds of yesteryear are now mostly relegated to history but the memories will never be forgotten and live in the minds of those old enough to remember them. The horns on diesels just don't cut it in my mind. While not aviation related, those sounds from the past give all of us some fond memories. I will drive a long way to watch the Iron Horse behemoths of yesteryear put on a good show and I have lots of photographs of them in action. I turned wrenches on airplanes but always wondered what it would be like to deal with 76 inch tall wheels and driving rods that weighed in thousands of pounds.

Other remembrances of the era include the sound of B-36's high overhead. Six of those huge radials were something to behold even though they were at altitude.

Steaks: Medium rare please with a smattering of Cajun spice on each side before it is seared to perfection. I'll be right there.
 
Norman said:
Matthew,

From a man whose hobby is full sized trains and has some friends who ply the rails and do other things to keep trains running I think you need to get closer to the tracks to really appreciate and enjoy them. That from a guy who used to lie in bed waiting for the lonesome sound of a steam whistle when he was a kid of that era in the fifties and early sixties. Back then each engineer had his own signature with steam whistles , and some could almost play a tune on them.

Those sounds of yesteryear are now mostly relegated to history but the memories will never be forgotten and live in the minds of those old enough to remember them. The horns on diesels just don't cut it in my mind. While not aviation related, those sounds from the past give all of us some fond memories. I will drive a long way to watch the Iron Horse behemoths of yesteryear put on a good show and I have lots of photographs of them in action. I turned wrenches on airplanes but always wondered what it would be like to deal with 76 inch tall wheels and driving rods that weighed in thousands of pounds.

Other remembrances of the era include the sound of B-36's high overhead. Six of those huge radials were something to behold even though they were at altitude.

Steaks: Medium rare please with a smattering of Cajun spice on each side before it is seared to perfection. I'll be right there.
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The steaks are on. A chicken is on, too, for another night. The herb butter is made, the salad is made, the balsamic vinaigrette is made, life is good.

The tracks are 2 miles from my place, but in the summer the trees muffle the sounds with their leaves, so it's much more muted than in winter.

At night, it's not unusual to hear them up in the 2nd floor bedroom, regardless of the season.
 
Wow, some great advice. Lots to think about. Brought out some places that I hadn't really considered (i.e. Minneapolis, KC, New England, Pitt). And some great opposing comments on several places (i.e Indy, Chicago, KC)

Thanks again all.
 
Norman said:
Most big cities are a hassle. Every last one of them has traffic problems. Other problems will weed out the worst of them you wouldn't consider living in. Detroit thinks, and advertises, that it is making a come back but the population exodus continues and there are vacant areas there in which one could do considerable farming. The suburbs as far north as Pontiac are getting crowded and with that comes traffic woes. Being honest, I can only say Michigan roads, especially in the metro area, suck big time. In the rural counties roads are much better and there is far less traffic. Smaller towns-Ann Arbor comes to mind- fare much better but the influx of people and the attendant traffic is making that city much less than desirable. Freeways in the metro area are a challenge even to the State Police. They sit and watch them for the most part. Smart move for them because some folks drive like fools on them.

Got caught in the Denver rush hour while returning from Salida to Fort Collins. Getting through Denver took longer than the rest of the trip.
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That's why we fly between Salida and FNL.
 
Todd82 said:
While not what people think of "Midwest" Pittsburgh is far more Midwestern-like than east coast. Plus you keep your closer proximity to the ocean, mountains an hour away, Lake Erie 2 hours. GA out of AGC, BVI, etc. is not bad. Traffic sucks at times but nothing like NYC. Humidity is less than the true "Midwest." I've been in the Dayton area for 10 years now (wife is from here) and still haven't gotten used to the humidity when the corn tassles out here compared to back home in PA.
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I agree I never lived in Pitts but I enjoyed it very much when I was there for a few months for work. People are nice, schools are decent, good sports town if you are into that. I just can't do the winters anymore.
 
Alaska. Seriously.

No state sales or income tax
Aviation is plentiful
Without a doubt the most beautiful state in our fair union
Great, hardworking, and down to earth people.

I love it here, and I'm not planning on leaving anytime soon.
 
On paper Alaska is pretty dangerous but a lot of the crime is in the more rural areas of the state. The cities (Juneau, Anchorage, Fairbanks) are all just as safe as any other big city in America.

This is also what I see when I get up in the morning.
 

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azure said:
Michigan has a fairly reasonable DOT that supports GA and issues a paper chart annually as well as a very nice booklet containing info about state airports and facilities that is better in many respects than the A/FD (now Chart Supplement)....
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And don't forget that now the booklet is also an app called "MiAirports"...man I wish every state had one of those apps...so much more convenient than the a/fd!
 
tawood said:
And don't forget that now the booklet is also an app called "MiAirports"...man I wish every state had one of those apps...so much more convenient than the a/fd!
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Don't forget?? I didn't know they had one!! Must be fairly new, within the last 3 years. I haven't even been to the state since 2015.

So I just downloaded the app but it does not include any of the plates (which they call maps). Given I barely have enough room on my devices for all the Foreflight data, I decided not to "update" them (I assume you have to do that to get the plates in the first place). But I'm sure this is a great app if you live in MI or fly there frequently.
 
azure said:
...So I just downloaded the app but it does not include any of the plates (which they call maps). Given I barely have enough room on my devices for all the Foreflight data, I decided not to "update" them (I assume you have to do that to get the plates in the first place). But I'm sure this is a great app if you live in MI or fly there frequently.
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Yes. Once updated it's like you have the complete mdot book on your device, divided up by region, selectable on a map. And the plates are updated very frequently (even more frequently than the a/fd).
 
I'm late to the comment party here, but i'll toss in my $0.02 here.

I've had the opportunity to live in several areas of the country throughout my career, supplemented by both domestic and international travel. We have taken up residence in TX, OK, ND, FL, NH, and now MD. Of those, the best all around experience regarding family activities and QOL for us has been MD. We live in a southern suburb of Baltimore, and DC and all it offers is a 30min car ride. Winters are benign, and summers are surprisingly oppressively hot and humid, so there is that.

We enjoyed our 3 years in AK, and after the kid gets out of the house, I'd happily go back. The wife may have something to the contrary about that, though. I earned my PPL in AK, and aviation is a way of life, as well as the outdoors. We lived in Anchorage, which was a nice small city. For more city, Seattle was a mere 3 1/2-4hr 737 ride away.

FL is Florida. Not bad, but otherwise, nothing spectacular IMHO. For the right job, I'd go back.

NH was great, but admittedly, I was 14 when we moved away. Worth another look in the future now that I'm calling the shots.

ND was everything "small town midwest" I had imagined. I enjoyed it, but the wife was not happy there (she's a city girl). Winters were brutal (-60*F not counting windchill) and summers were hot (90*-100*+), but not too humid. Would have to be one hell of a job to get me back there.

OK was an all around good place. Hot summers, Icy winters, and wind. Lots of wind. We lived in OKC, and loved the 2 years we were there. If all else fails, we would certainly go back. OKC has lots to offer, and a stupid low cost of living (compared to the other locales we have been).

Moving to a new area is one of the most fun and scary things we do as humans. Figure out what you want from life and go for it!
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Bunch of Midwest haters. I like it here. I'd vote Indy myself.
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Indy has changed a lot in the last 10-15 years. It really has grown up from the "Indianoplace" or "Naptown" monikers that it richly deserved at one time.
 
AWACSEng said:
I'm late to the comment party here, but i'll toss in my $0.02 here.

I've had the opportunity to live in several areas of the country throughout my career, supplemented by both domestic and international travel. We have taken up residence in TX, OK, ND, FL, NH, and now MD. Of those, the best all around experience regarding family activities and QOL for us has been MD. We live in a southern suburb of Baltimore, and DC and all it offers is a 30min car ride. Winters are benign, and summers are surprisingly oppressively hot and humid, so there is that.

We enjoyed our 3 years in AK, and after the kid gets out of the house, I'd happily go back. The wife may have something to the contrary about that, though. I earned my PPL in AK, and aviation is a way of life, as well as the outdoors. We lived in Anchorage, which was a nice small city. For more city, Seattle was a mere 3 1/2-4hr 737 ride away.

FL is Florida. Not bad, but otherwise, nothing spectacular IMHO. For the right job, I'd go back.

NH was great, but admittedly, I was 14 when we moved away. Worth another look in the future now that I'm calling the shots.

ND was everything "small town midwest" I had imagined. I enjoyed it, but the wife was not happy there (she's a city girl). Winters were brutal (-60*F not counting windchill) and summers were hot (90*-100*+), but not too humid. Would have to be one hell of a job to get me back there.

OK was an all around good place. Hot summers, Icy winters, and wind. Lots of wind. We lived in OKC, and loved the 2 years we were there. If all else fails, we would certainly go back. OKC has lots to offer, and a stupid low cost of living (compared to the other locales we have been).

Moving to a new area is one of the most fun and scary things we do as humans. Figure out what you want from life and go for it!
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Funny thing about personal perspective - I grew up mostly in MD, and have been back here for a long time, and I wouldn't put it on the list, or reccomend it. If working in the DC metro area, Northern VA would be my first suggestion. MD taxes are stiff - not the highest in any category, but well up there in every category. Also the most gerrymandered congressional districts in the country. The public service unions own the county governments in the close in jurisdictions, and the single-party system is happy to buy thier endorsements with your money. Though technically a southern state, MD operates like the NE states. Think NJ, only without NY. A popular bumper sticker is "MD! If You Can Dream It, We can Tax It". There was a close run thing on taxing "rain" (tax on your driveway and patio, for runoff). . .

But it is pretty - mountains, Chesapeake Bay, two citys with a lot to do. Summers are hot and humid, winters cold and damp. Spring and Fall are magnificent.

Traffic in DC metro MD trades places with LA for worst in tbe country, but you don't have go very far to be in truly rural country, either.
 
Sundancer said:
Funny thing about personal perspective - I grew up mostly in MD, and have been back here for a long time, and I wouldn't put it on the list, or reccomend it. If working in the DC metro area, Northern VA would be my first suggestion. MD taxes are stiff - not the highest in any category, but well up there in every category. Also the most gerrymandered congressional districts in the country. The public service unions own the county governments in the close in jurisdictions, and the single-party system is happy to buy thier endorsements with your money. Though technically a southern state, MD operates like the NE states. Think NJ, only without NY. A popular bumper sticker is "MD! If You Can Dream It, We can Tax It". There was a close run thing on taxing "rain" (tax on your driveway and patio, for runoff). . .

But it is pretty - mountains, Chesapeake Bay, two citys with a lot to do. Summers are hot and humid, winters cold and damp. Spring and Fall are magnificent.

Traffic in DC metro MD trades places with LA for worst in tbe country, but you don't have go very far to be in truly rural country, either.
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True. We have found that every location has it's own nuances. It's up to each of us to determine what is tolerable. MD has worked well for us for several reasons, one of which is proximity to two geographically located sets of grandparents. We are able to tolerate the local politics, as seemingly odd as they are, and have just grown accustomed to the traffic, as neither of us has a terrible commute. Everything really is what you make it, and MD seems to be the happy middle of the road/compromise we as a family look for. Time will tell where we end up following the conclusion of my military career and where the next job takes us.
 
DavidWhite said:
Alaska. Seriously.

No state sales or income tax
Aviation is plentiful
Without a doubt the most beautiful state in our fair union
Great, hardworking, and down to earth people.

I love it here, and I'm not planning on leaving anytime soon.
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Probably don't have a lot of hot muggy days either.
 
I go back and forth between MD and ND. MD income tax is brutal, and yes, they tax both the rain that falls on your roof and the **** you flush down your toilet. In NoVA, real estate values are much higher, so you pay plenty of RE taxes. They also have property tax on cars and planes (some counties have a 0.00000001 mill rate on planes and don't collect it until the plane is worth at least 55million). Traffic on the VA side is atrocious. Winters in the mid-atlantic are damp and dreary, summers are hot and muggy. A good place if you are a mushroom.

There are upsides to the DC area. I live on a 5 acre landsacped park backed up to conservation land and all-in my home cost less that a garage in NYC. Crime is a problem as there is no functioning court system. Our suburban county of 140k has more homicides than the entire state of ND with 600k. Baltimorgue, at 605k population kills more people in a summer weekend than entire states do in a year. Heroin is everywhere and you can pick up spray-cans of Narcan at the health department, no questions asked.

It's not all bad though. This afternoon I am at a Nationals game, there is an NBA franchise and if the weather sucks there are all the free Smithsonian museums. If you care for opera and classical, there is the Kennedy Center. Oh, and lots of jobs in the contractor bubble around DC. If you are not tied to the beltway bandits, there is not much native industy (the state does its level best to drive companies away).

Most people are here because they have to. Unless folks have family ties going back centuries, they usually get their firs retirement check mailed to NC or SC.
 
Spot on - I'm departing MD myself, probably for NC. . .there was a study about taxes in the area, and NoVA came out a little better than MD, which was a wash with DC. Very subjective, of course, as it must be, based on indidual situations. It is super easy to get to Nationals and Wizards game, if/if the Metro is working. Same for Camden yards, since it basically has it's own exit off 95. Museums and Zoo are "free" (which means someone else is paying for them).

But yeah, not many people re-locate here as a final destination - the rumor is the crime figures for the Baltimore Inner Harbor are "cooked"; violent car jacking becomes "car theft", and the geo fencing is "interpreted" to minimize the stats for the Inner Harbor.
 
Sundancer said:
Spot on - I'm departing MD myself, probably for NC. . .there was a study about taxes in the area, and NoVA came out a little better than MD, which was a wash with DC. Very subjective, of course, as it must be, based on indidual situations.
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You can't do much worse than DC taxes. But of course, it all depends on income, how much house you own etc. NoVa is a bit better on income tax but you are going to spend more on your mortgage, RE taxes and and transportation.

It is super easy to get to Nationals and Wizards game, if/if the Metro is working.
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With Nationals park you can drive right up. Today we had gifted corporate tickets that included parking in the deck that is right adjacent to the park, without that parking is a bit spendy. For the Verizon center, we have a lot in Chinatown where you give a lady $20 and you shoe-horn your car into an irregularly shaped piece of dirt ;-)

. Museums and Zoo are "free" (which means someone else is paying for them).
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Looking at the check I wrote on April 17th, I think I paid my 'fair share' to keep those places open.

But yeah, not many people re-locate here as a final destination - the rumor is the crime figures for the Baltimore Inner Harbor are "cooked"; violent car jacking becomes "car theft", and the geo fencing is "interpreted" to minimize the stats for the Inner Harbor.
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Used to live in Bolton Hill some years back. Back then, it was really granular. One block was nice, the next block over was post-apocalyptical wasteland.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I agreed with you until you said newly wed or dead...Not true at all. Maybe in Sarasota which has a lot of retirees I live about 30 mins away north so I can understand that perspective. A lot of other parts of Florida has young people especially Tampa and Saint Pete...Have you seen Clearwater beach lately? What about Miami south beach? Clubs?
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Yeah, but that's all seasonal. Florida also has one of the worst male/female ratios in the country for colleges and population if you are a heterosexual male or female looking for a partner. Now if you aren't, then your odds are MUCH better.

So if you are anything but heterosexual and you are artistic and older then Florida is the place to be.

We've got really nothing around to attract and retain younger, skilled talent for jobs. Most of the companies I've worked at had to go through national talent agencies to fill positions because there's literally NO ONE in state that has the skills to do the job. But, they also have to sell the candidate on location because pay is 20% less here for most jobs then it is elsewhere, at LEAST.

Florida has its pros, but man it would definitely NOT be on my list for someone looking to maintain their professional career.
 
orange said:
Wow, some great advice. Lots to think about. Brought out some places that I hadn't really considered (i.e. Minneapolis, KC, New England, Pitt). And some great opposing comments on several places (i.e Indy, Chicago, StL)

Thanks again all.
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There, fixed it for ya.
 
PPC1052 said:
Indy has changed a lot in the last 10-15 years. It really has grown up from the "Indianoplace" or "Naptown" monikers that it richly deserved at one time.
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What changed? Was offered a relo there 20 years ago, passed and went to Beantown instead.
 
Sundancer said:
But yeah, not many people re-locate here as a final destination - the rumor is the crime figures for the Baltimore Inner Harbor are "cooked"; violent car jacking becomes "car theft", and the geo fencing is "interpreted" to minimize the stats for the Inner Harbor.
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But at least you're allowed, as a solid tax-paying citizen, to CCW for protection. /SARCASM OFF/
 
I have a good friend who lives forty miles or so north of Des Moines, IA, and have trust in his evaluation of the city. It is a center of the insurance industry and other financials. Certainly worth investigating and submitting resumes to corporations based there. You may or may not like what you find in researching.

I've been in Michigan all my life and at my age I'm loathe to move, but if I were forced to I'd be seeking property in Ames or thereabouts. Nice medium sized town, and the surrounding area is primarily rural. Corn fields abound.

BTW, if you're lucky, and willing to don sterile garb, James Dean may give you a personally escorted tour of his egg farm. Based on what he has posted here it will be educational and I thank him for the insight he has provided us. Aviation forums can be informative.

Yes, I am aware major changes in life can be challenging. I've faced a few but have my feet firmly planted where I want to remain till I die. I'm not of the "mobile generation" who hang their hat where the money is best. There is more to life than that. I have close friends here i wont abandon.
 
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