Thinking about moving to the midwest late this year

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by orange, May 12, 2017.

  1. sferguson524

    sferguson524 Pattern Altitude

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    Personally I moved from CA to NV 3 years ago. vegas is definitely interesting. We have more here than the gaming industry, but obviously that dominates.. Car gas is 2.50/gal and 100LL at VGT is 3.99 i think.. No state income tax, and minimul traffic.
     
  2. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    As a NY resident I take offense to lumping NYC in with NY. I live in VERY RURAL western NY in a VERY small town. Once you get 20 minutes outside of NYC the rest of NY is a very different place. The closest 3 color traffic light is 26 miles away. I can be in my tree stand or fishing in 20 minutes or less from the time I leave my office.

    Having said that the taxes and the regulation are killing this state. People are fleeing in droves. NY is a beautiful state being systematically destroyed by clueless politicians. Most life long NY residents can not afford to stay here in retirement.
     
  3. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Well, you need a fair amount more than 20 minutes.

    It's not the clueless politicians at fault, it's the clueless morons who vote for them over and over, who are in turn very generous with the confiscatory public treasury.
     
  4. sferguson524

    sferguson524 Pattern Altitude

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    I had to go through Baltimore for work last summer. Somewhere downtown near Fells Point. I walked to a 7-11 fairly early in the morning and somewhat felt like I was taking my life into my own hands
     
  5. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Fells Point is in the green-zone. Unless you get stabbed in a bar, it's pretty safe. Don't do anything stupid like walking around without some cash in your pockets and you'll probably be fine. Probably.
     
  6. sferguson524

    sferguson524 Pattern Altitude

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    This didn't seem all that safe.. There was a teaching hospital and a firestation in the same 'hood as the hotel. Other than that, I would have loved to spend more time there exploring.. Had to catch a cruise ship early the next AM for work.
     
  7. orange

    orange Line Up and Wait

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    UPDATE: As expected, we received our walking papers at work. It was originally supposed to be end of October but due to big projects they need us till end of December if they don't extend us again. Then I take my severance (almost 9 months of pay for 18 years of service) and do something else. I think I will take a job here for 6 months till the kids finish school and I find a new job in Indy. It seems to have taken the lead. I've been looking. Lots of IT jobs but I don't have any database/systems architecture experience. Not much in financial services. I have a couple of contacts from companies we dealt with in the past located in Indy. I may try them. I know that biz well.

    I'll try to keep updating this thread. I'll add more aviation related news too as I settle in to our new town wherever it will be.

    Thanks for the great advice all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  8. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Cleared for Takeoff

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    The Indy area, and Indiana should be fine. I’d much rather be there than NYC. Once you move scope out the local area a good bit before you buy. With kids you’ll likely want to get settled, maybe start the research right now.

    It will be much easier to get to Oshkosh next Summer anyway.
     
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  9. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    That sounds like a solid plan. That said, having lived in Indiana for 4 years (Terre Haute) I would say Indianapolis isn't a bad place at all, but I'd suggest trying to go a bit further west. Here in Kansas, Ohio (and I think Indiana as well) aren't considered midwest. Now having grown up in NYC, I was raised thinking Ohio was start of the midwest. Goes to show you the differences. Indiana and Ohio are fairly confused as to what they are, being stuck at the borders of the east, south, and midwest. Just some food for thought since you have some time to make a decision and consider the options.
     
  10. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Indianapolis seems like a really nice town. Lots to do, far less expensive than the East Coast, and far safer for airplanes. Nothing but flat expanses no matter where you go. Screw the rocks. Ad only an hour's airplane flight from the cultural hub of the Universe in the vicinity of the Steinholme.
     
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  11. Sinistar

    Sinistar Line Up and Wait

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    We live in the suburbs of Minneapolis, yes the winters are no fun. However, Minnesota is fairly aviation friendly with lots of small GA airports.

    More importantly, almost always good tech job availability. Cost of living will be considerably cheaper than NY, but not necessarily low compared to other Midwest areas. Lots of IT for retail (Best Buy, Target, etc) and Medical (Medtronic, St.Jude and many, many others) and actually lots and lots of other companies.

    Another important one for us is schools. We are in the Minnetonka school district but live farther west and open enroll. We are surprised each year how well their schools do compared to the state and the nation, even outscores Wayzata in Math and English and just a point below them on science. My daughter is not a top the class kind of student but on the NWEA's she consistently scores in low 90's for math, mid 90's for English and she can now speak/write/read Chinese at about one grade level behind students in China. We really like the school system, not so big as Wayzata or Eden Prairie but still big enough for all the major sports and non-sports after school programs.

    Spring, summer and fall are usually excellent...except bugs. But no mountains or Ocean. However the Lake Superior area is awesome. If you live in the inner burbs drive times to your job might be under 15 minutes and your house will either be smaller or more expensive and probably 1/4 acre yard. If you live in the outer burbs expect 25-40min drives but larger less expensive houses and often yards over 1/2 acre. Lots of parks, lots of lakes, lots of bugs :)
     
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  12. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Some nice grass strips on the north edge of the Indianapolis metro area - I72 Westfield (where I picked up my current ride) and I80 Noblesville - where I got more or less re-current with a tailwheel.
     
  13. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Orange, I think the responses in this thread show more about people's own experiences and preferences for a place than how well their favorite/most hated places match with your needs.

    I live in Albany now, but grew up near Chicago and spent a few years living downtown. I've also spent a lot of time in the NYC area and have lots of friends around there. To many of them, Chicago is kind of like NYC-lite, in a good way. More navigable, more cheaper, the sprawl is a little less intense if you want to live in the 'burbs, lots of good cultural stuff going on downtown, lots of business growth both downtown and in the 'burbs. Housing ain't cheap, but compared to the NY metro area it's quite affordable. The corruption in Illinois and Chicago politics is nothing compared to NY and NYC, and in both places people manage to live happy and rewarding lives. If I didn't have a kid keeping me in Albany, my fiancee would chase jobs there and I'd follow her in a heartbeat. Chicago is incredible in the summer. Like anywhere, there are hot and humid days, but it's Shangri-La compared to a lot of the places you've considered. The lake keeps downtown 5-10 degrees cooler than the surrounding areas.

    Small cities have a lot of appeal, too. They'll feel smaller and slower-paced than NYC, but offer many of the advantages of a big metro area without so many of the disadvantages. Madison and Milwaukee would both be on my short list. Albany isn't the most enthralling place to live, but it's easy, and it's affordable, with lots of lifestyle choices for the family nearby. Within 20 minutes of downtown there are rural, suburban, urban, and small-town communities to choose from. We are never lacking things to do, both family-friendly and adult-friendly. I suspect other small cities will be similar.

    I'm not sure Indianapolis has the weather you're looking for. Check this out: https://weatherspark.com/y/14754/Average-Weather-in-Indianapolis-Indiana-United-States-Year-Round

    "In Indianapolis, the summers are long, warm, humid, and wet; the winters are short, very cold, and windy; and it is partly cloudy year round. "
     
  14. jesse

    jesse Administrator Management Council Member

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    Orange - PM me a list of your skills - including any technical ones you have.

    Our company has offices in manhattan and Lincoln, NE. We too are in financial services.

    I am hiring right now and I know other people that are hiring. Maybe I can help out.
     
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  15. Ozone

    Ozone Pre-Flight

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    plus one for the Minneapolis area. I belong to both a glider club and a flying club here that are inexpensive ($130/hr wet for a SR-20, for example). Having been raised in the Bay area, I have been pleasantly surprised by how nice the culture is here in the twin cities. The schools are very good. My wife is a school psychologist and did a lot of research before we moved here. So, if you havent committed totally to the indy area, take a look at the twin cities.
     
  16. FloridaPilot

    FloridaPilot Pattern Altitude

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    Florida definitely has bugs too all you need to do it drive through the everglades during dusk or dawn and you will know what I mean. I was driving and my wife asks is it raining outside? No it was all of the bugs hitting the car. Like everyplace it has it's drawbacks..."pick your poison well"
     
  17. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I had a car overheat after 5 hrs of driving from the black hills to ND early evening into the night. Radiator was covered with a composite material made up of dead butterflies held together by bugs.
     
  18. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The 'midwest' starts in Buffalo, NY.
     
  19. TCABM

    TCABM Line Up and Wait

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    @orange . Link up with @jesse if for no other reason then you were asked.

    When I left my previous (military) career and transitioned to the afterlife, I got one piece of advice that I share with everyone. When you face a change like this, you get to choose one of the following: the location, the role/company, or the salary. Do your homework.

    I did mine and relocated. We chose location: 2hrs max drive to our daughter. I had to network my butt off and wound up with a lower cost of living, same income overall, and a great company to work for that prides itself with a single-digit turnover rate and an average turnover of 12 years.

    Every day I go to work, I feel a sense of purpose being there, because the skills I have are valued and the company wants me to succeed and takes every hire (9,000+ this year) as a high potential hire. Love it.

    I found this position because some told me to reach out to someone like Jesse and talk to them.

    Just do it.
     
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  20. orange

    orange Line Up and Wait

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    I just realized that I haven't really been clear as to my priorities. Many of you are talking in tersm of aviation, but honestly, it's not towards the top of my list. I already mentioned less stress/slower pace, but affordable housing is a huge too.

    1. Less stress- The hustle and bustle of NYC has taken its toll on me the last few years it seems. I'm looking to get out of the rat race. Relax, take it easy, enjoy nature a little more, breathe fresher air, etc. I'd still need to work. I'm only 41. And I realize that I won't nearly as much as I do here, but I'd be happy with 85k in a nice steady job with decent hours. And come home to spend time with the wife and kids.

    2. Affordable housing- We've been looking to buy a house here in NY for a couple of years but with 4 kids we need 4-5 beds, so in NYC we are talking 800k-1mil at the minimum. And that's for a min. 40-50 year old house that will surely needs thousands of $ of work off the bat. We looked at one a couple of months ago for 930 that was gorgeous but a real piece of **** inside. I'm not looking to get into a 30 year mortgage at 5k/mo, paying it till I drop dead. I came across new construction houses in Indy for about 300k. I can pay that off in 10 years, probably less. We rent here for 2500/mo which is more than what we'd pay for mortgage, etc there. The real estate market out here is unbelieveable. Some real pieces of crap selling for close to 1mil, all due to rental supply shortage. All these yuppy wannabe actors/musicians (aka waiers/bartenders/uber drivers) that have come here from all over to pursue their dreams has thrown our housing out of whack. These dopes live in these "lofts" (old rundown factory + some sheetrock + some nails + some wood=lofts with bunkbeds) and pay ridiculous prices to a point where factories are closing to transform into "housing" to make top dollar on these bobos. They love those 30 ft ceilings and are willing to pay handsomely for them...LOL

    3-4. Education and Low crime- Obviously important but after NYC public school system and the crime here (luckily our area is very safe), it can only go up from here. (Detroit and Inner city Chicago are not on the list. haha )

    5. Flying- While flying is a hobby that I love and don't plan to stop (finishing BFR on Monday), it's not towards the top because I think one can find it pretty much everwhere. Obviously, it may be pricier and more restricted in some places over others, but after paying these prices and navigating around JFK/LGA/EWR, it can only get better from here. (I've never flown into/out of a non-towered airport by myself. Nor used self-service fuel. LOL)

    I hope that it helps clarify my reasons for looking into this. Keep the suggestions/tips coming. Don't be afraid to tell me I'm making a mistake with something (location, job, etc). I have a thick skin, I won't get offended. LOL
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  21. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    Orange,

    You might give Ann Arbor, MI at least a cursory glance. It's far enough west of Detroit to avoid most of that city's problems,University of Michigan is there and so are a lot of high tech operations. It's suburban housing is reasonably priced cause not all houses are McMansions. North and west of AA are mostly semi-rural with plenty of recreational opportunities.

    Fun typing this one. I must have ten thumbs tonight. :rolleyes:
     
  22. Scott@KTYR

    Scott@KTYR Pattern Altitude

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    Congrats!! It take courage to make such a big change in your life. Good luck. I wish you all the best.
     
  23. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Those are good priorities, and I agree you have them in the right order.

    With that said, Indiana is not a particularly attractive state in my opinion. More nature than NYC, but still not all that pretty. Again, further west. Basically Indianapolis on west (until you hit Denver) has affordable housing. Pennsylvania has great nature, that was perhaps the prettiest place to live. Again, I'll take Kansas over Indiana for all the things you mention.
     
  24. TommyG

    TommyG Cleared for Takeoff

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    Well you have the time, and ou can do it affordably. Set out on a long road trip and look around the areas you have interest in. Then start applying for jobs in those preferred areas. I know people who have picked places sight unseen, moved and were miserable.
     
  25. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    The main problem with Ann Arbor is property taxes. A friend of mine lives in a 1-bedroom house with a small backyard in the northwest part of the city (near Argo Park) and pays $5k a year in taxes. I have no other data points to compare there, but suspect a 4-bedroom in that neighborhood would run $10k or better in property taxes. Other neighborhoods might be lower.

    @orange : I wouldn't totally write off the Detroit area, some of the suburbs are quite comfortable and affordable, particularly the northern suburbs and, from what I hear, some parts of downriver (south of Detroit proper, along the Detroit river). I lived for almost 20 years in a small condo close to Lake St. Clair and never paid more than $1k in property taxes. In that part of town you could easily acquire a 4-bedroom for $300k or so and, depending on neighborhood, might be able to get away with less than $5k in property taxes. You would need to lock your doors but you wouldn't be in fear for your life to walk out the door at night, as you would be in parts of Detroit. Overall the cost of living in the Detroit area is about 15% lower than even in rural New England (e.g. Vermont) and probably much lower compared to NYC. There is also high-quality medical care nearby (that would be true in Ann Arbor as well). Henry Ford, Beaumont, U of M hospital, all excellent.

    Just my $0.02.
     
  26. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You'll find that leaving NYC can be harder than you think. My brother in law does database design work for health insurers and financial institutions. He tried to escape a couple of times but the silly money available in NYC kept pulling him back in.
     
  27. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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  28. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    Liz,

    Areas in Washtenaw, Livingston, Monroe and Jackson counties all are within reasonable driving distance of AA and have much lower taxes.
     
  29. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Agree with that - just saying that Ann Arbor itself can be an expensive place to live, and also that the outer suburbs of Detroit aren't bad either. I neglected to mention that there are also plenty of tech companies with offices all over the area - particularly in Oakland County.
     
  30. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    It all depends on how far one is willing to drive. I live in Waterford and it ain't cheap. Highland Twp is cheaper but the drive to work is longer.

    Ann Arbor and Washtenaw County is up and coming. There are more high tech jobs there than in Oakland. Livingston County is not far behind. Southeast Michigan is finally getting with the program. Genessee County is still behind the power curve.
     
  31. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route

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    I'd look at Pittsburgh, and not consider any city that was North of their line of longitude. :) Charlotte,NC/Greenville, SC is a good spot to make the Southern boundary. I liked Minneapolis/St Paul when visiting during a beautiful week in mid-October a few years back, but I wouldn't have wanted to deal with 5 months of hard winter, personally. If you stay in that North/South boundary, you get Midwest/Southern culture exposure, but large enough cities available that should help with city-folk needs. You also be in shouting distance of dozens of great mountain ranges, national parks, and lakes/wildlife.
     
  32. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    I'm in in Indy. Let me know if you need any advice, from where to live, where to eat, or the GA scene. I personally hangar my plane at Eagle Creek, but did my flight training at Indy Metro (private) and Indy Exec (instrument).

    Also, my brother-in-law is a real estate agent, and a really good one at that. Plus, he's a good guy. If you need a recommendation on that front, I can help with that, too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  33. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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  34. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

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    See also (note that this includes AK and HI but neither of those will push the line farther east):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geogr...es#/media/File:USCenterPop_Geographic2010.png

    Half of all Americans live east of the Illinois-Indiana state line. That clearly makes Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and upstate New York the Middle East. They're hardly west of anything and they're all east of the median population line.

    Of course, you can use the same logic to say that Mississippi is in the Southwest. That's not something I'd say in Mississippi or in the real Southwest.

    (Posted from the real Midwest.)
     
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  35. skier

    skier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    West of the Delaware River and East of the Rockies = Midwest.
     
  36. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    Yep, Indiana is mostly kinda Midwest. Ohio/Michigan is not. I consider the Midwest proper starts on the Indiana/Illinois border.
     
  37. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I think the transition between midwest starts at the Ohio/Indiana border and finishes probably about the time you hit St. Louis. It's interesting to see how some characteristics of areas gradually change as the miles roll past and some have very distinct borders.
     
  38. FloridaPilot

    FloridaPilot Pattern Altitude

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    BINGO!!!!

    New York is among the places with the highest cost of living in the Nation and in some places depending on what you do you might have to take a salary cut.

    @jesse I don't know you personally but Thank you for trying to help someone out. It's good to see that sometimes!

    But the trap is you spend a lot in New York as well. 15 dollar tolls? 3600 for Auto Insurance? (Full Coverage). It's not necessarily how much you make but how much you keep in your pocket!
     
  39. hankrausch

    hankrausch Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have not seen this mentioned, I live in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, here is how it stacks up to your criteria:
    Stress: none. Nobody messes with you. If there is government here I have not seen it. My property tax is $500/yr. Very much a live and let live state.

    Education: if your child maintains a 3.0 gpa their tuition to an in state school is paid.schools are poor in the S part of the state but very good in the E panhandle, this is the most affluent part of the state.

    Housing:v low cost.
    Crime: low
    Flying: my experience is that with minor variations (avgas more expensive in NE for example), the entire US is pretty GA friendly, so this needn't be a criterion. MRB hangars are $200/mo.

    The whole area is muggy in summer but living in the Blue Ridge mtns cuts down on that a lot. We live at 2000 ft, don't have AC, never needed it.

    Jobs: there are none, you must commute into N Virginia, but what you get for 2-3 hrs a day on the road is housing for 1/5 the cost and quality of life. Living here is very much like living in the 60s, in both good and bad ways.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  40. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Syracuse, NY (Carrier Dome in foreground):
    [​IMG]

    Scranton, PA:
    [​IMG]

    Detroit, MI:
    [​IMG]

    Steubenville, OH:
    [​IMG]

    Indianapolis, IN:
    [​IMG]
     
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