The phrase "With You"

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by LongRoadBob, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jacker
    Just a quick check. What does the phrase "with you" signify in communication with ATC?
    I get the impression that it is not standard terminology, but am only guessing that it might mean a request for flight following or something?

    I wouldn't bother folks about it but I just passed my exams, am going to start flying again, and hadn't used the radio yet in my instructional flights so far. I want to hit the ground running and start out again by also using the radio. I had a "cheat sheet" for communication from my airport to the practice area, but when it's time to call up approach for request of practice area, it has me calling up Oslo approach, "with you xx feet overhead (area) request area xx" and I get the idea it is meant to be significant. To signify something like following but not in the approved way. Any light to shed?
     
    exncsurfer likes this.
  2. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,498
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
  3. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,501
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    It signifies nothing. You’re obviously “with them” if you are talking on their frequency. It’s like walking up to someone and saying “hi I’m talking to you right now.”
     
  4. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,324
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    LOL!

    "With you" is one of those non-standard but harmless phrases pilots manage to pick up. It is used by some when reporting in after a change of frequency. It theoretically is telling ATC you are on the frequency, but the actual standard terminology "Skyhawk 1234X. Level at 4,500" (or climbing, or whatever) tells them that. So it actually means nothing at all and is roughly the equivalent of "uhhh..." or "errr..." or "and..." It gets spread around by new pilots thinking it sounds professional.
     
    azure, Paulie and RDUPilot like this.
  5. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    9,600
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    This page intentionally left blank
    Pea patch approach Bugsmasher 6969 level 8000
     
    flyingron and CC268 like this.
  6. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    9,243
    Location:
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Yeah. Well a lot (most?) professional pilots use the phrase. As you said, it is harmless. I wonder why a few people make such a big deal about it.
     
    azure, CMongoose, KA550 and 4 others like this.
  7. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,324
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    I gotta add... Two best "with you" comments. Neither are mine.

    1....
    I stopped saying "with you" cold turkey (it had slipped into my pilot speak) when I heard Philly Approach talking to a GA pilot late one night.
    Cessna 123: "Philly Approach, Cessna 123 with you, two thousand five hundred over Woodstown, Mike".
    Philly: "Cessna 123, Uniform is NOT the current information, squawk three zero three one and my name's Mike too how do you do."
    (there was a stunned silence as the Cessna tried to figure it all out)
    Cessna 123: "Ah Philly, I didn't say Uniform. Um, I have the current information - what was that squawk?"
    Philly: "Actually Cessna 123, you did tell me you had Uniform - I have it on tape - the word 'with' precedes the ATIS information code - you want to try again".
    (More silence and then maybe a realization)
    Cessna 123: "OK Philly, Cessna 123 with...shoot...over Woodstown with information Mike".
    Philly: (Emphatic) "Good Evening Cessna 123! I see you over Woodstown, two thousand three hundred and Mike is current, squawk three zero three one and say intentions".​

    2....
    Sometimes you get into a "with you" discussion with pilots who insist it's an important and helpful phrase. Take any transmission, change "with you" to "mayonnaise" in any phrase and the informational content will be exactly the same.​
     
  8. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,953
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoCal RV Flyer
    Harmless. I do it sometimes. I also say "thanks for your help" to a tower controller or just before a FF handoff.
     
    KA550 and TRocket like this.
  9. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,324
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    I used to (which is why I have a collection of "with you" stories), but as I said, it's harmless. Just like "Uhh."
     
    Paulie likes this.
  10. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,324
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    LOL. I remember someone justifying it by saying it was a warm and fuzzy greeting like hello or thanks. Someone else suggested going into a biker bar and saying, "Hi. With you," and seeing how it worked out.
     
    Paulie, Palmpilot and Flocker like this.
  11. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    955
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Larry in TN
    As others have said, it means nothing. Try to avoid using it just to keep your transmissions more succinct.

    Nobody has perfect phraseology but I believe that we should try to stick to standard phraseology as much as possible. The system really does work better when we do.
     
  12. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    9,600
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    This page intentionally left blank
    It is harmless, I just prefer to use correct phraseology when I can because I'm an anal mother. (Where's that OCD thread???)
     
    SoCal RV Flyer likes this.
  13. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    15,250
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    We have a winner!
     
  14. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    22,448
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    I've used it, like "blah blah with you at FL250" or similar. No harm if you use it or don't use it.
     
    SoCal RV Flyer likes this.
  15. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    15,250
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Those controllers who grew up Catholic have an overwhelming urge to reply "And also with you" (or perhaps if they are old enough: "And with your spirit.").
     
  16. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,762
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    I’m sure someone will dig out the recommended phraseology after this post to show I’m wrong, but I truly don’t see the need to say “level”. It’s altitude leaving (climbing or descending) then altitude cleared to, or just an altitude if level.
     
    KA550, tspatrick and denverpilot like this.
  17. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    7,169
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    yeah, why would you have to say "with mike", mike should be good enough.
     
  18. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,044
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    yup....with you. ;)
     
  19. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,046
    Location:
    PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PAFlyer
    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that controller is a penis.

    And as to the "threat" that he had something "on tape", my response would have been "Great! Mark the tape; I'll be calling the FAA QA guy in the morning to tell him about the exemplary service I got from you."
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  20. danhagan

    danhagan Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,437
    Location:
    El Paso, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    danhagan
    Guess I'm old now ... I still say the "old" version more than half the time in mass (must be from years of being an alter boy). The "and with your spirit" just doesn't seem to stick ... maybe if I was Commanche or Cherokee;)

    Back to the OP: Forget the "with you" ... that's bland and for the uncool only. Your NEW catch response is to yell "C-YA" as you get frequency changed to the next sector. Listen to the guys on ATC JFK broadcasts to get the correct inflection:rolleyes:
     
    inspectorpacket and denverpilot like this.
  21. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,046
    Location:
    PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PAFlyer
    It's now "And with your spirit" again.
     
  22. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,046
    Location:
    PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PAFlyer
    I'm with you ;) on that.
     
  23. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,046
    Location:
    PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PAFlyer
    JFK leaving-sector controller: "Yo, don't let da daw hit ya on de way out"
     
  24. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    17,250
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    Just a greeting type English lanuage thing

    Like how you would say "could I have a latte with maple"

    Even though you could convey the same thing by only saying "latte with maple"
     
  25. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,044
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    I never knew such a thing existed.....or could be desirable....o_O
     
  26. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jacker
    Thanks guys. I was wanting to know if it implied an official type of request, even though I knew it was non-standard was interested if it was meant as some official permission, but I see now from all the posts that it is more innocent than that.

    Wasn't my meaning to start a debate on if it's ok, but for myself I think I'll drop it as I am trying just to communicate the best I can, which at this point is pretty iffy. Don't need extra phrases as I'm just trying to get the necessary ones right now without sounding like a total idiot (half-idiot would be welcome at this point, and an improvement).

    Even before I saw the suggestion somewhere, I'm practicing in my car :)
    And screwing it up but it is getting better.

    Thanks for clearing that up. Honestly was a big help!
     
  27. Salty

    Salty Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,345
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
  28. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    It’s just a throwaway noise like “ummmmmm”. Some people work on getting rid of it, some people are lazy and use it to fill the time their brain stops working. ;)
     
  29. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    15,250
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Did the Holy Ghost make a comeback?
     
    inspectorpacket likes this.
  30. jnmeade

    jnmeade Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,101
    Location:
    Eastern Iowa
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim Meade
    If you're just starting out or starting over, there is something to be said for sticking to standard phraseology. People assume you mean exactly what you say. No more, no less.
    If you use non-standard phraseology, it CAN imply a certain background or perspective which becomes part of the message. The implied message may be you're an experienced pilot, or one with military background, or an airline pilot or glider jock, whatever. Someone may make an assumption (they shouldn't, but they might) about your background, experience, competence and so forth that you didn't mean and that might affect how they act, for example if you in the pattern, on approach, etc.. Not your fault, but in the interest of clear,concise communication.......
     
  31. Salty

    Salty Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,345
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Not sure how useful that is. Occasionally I sound like I know what I'm doing on the radio - doesn't mean it's true.
     
  32. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,044
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    Peace be with you to.... ;)
     
  33. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    15,146
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Now offering reverse discounts.
    Yup! Always am and many others agree!
     
    Wrench978 likes this.
  34. champ driver

    champ driver Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2014
    Messages:
    595
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Champ driver
    X2
     
  35. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    I’m always “with Mike” too, in my airplane, considering the tail number. :)
     
  36. Sinistar

    Sinistar Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,054
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    Okay, I thought there was one case where "With You" was sort of standard (well, like 83% standard :)) and that is the initial call into flight services where you also state which frequency you called in on. I thought that was to help them as they have to queue up and handle several frequencies. So around here might be: "Princeton Radio, Skylane Romeo Eight Juliet with you on 122.25". I guess you could just say "Princeton Radio, Skylane Romeo Eight Juliet on 122.5". So far both instructors have taught with you, but only for initial call to FSS and in no other case.
     
  37. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    17,250
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    Seems like 8/10 times its a PPL who's playing the radio nazi, I mean say "with you" or don't, it really doesn't make a bit of difference
     
  38. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,804
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    "dude, this is really potent stuff, don't take too much or you'll OD"




















    "aight, I'm with you."
     
  39. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,501
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    Either way is fine. I’d personally omit the “with you” because I find it unnecessary but it’s not really a big deal if you say it.
     
  40. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,745
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    Can I use mustard? Mayonnaise is sooo boring.