Premier 1 driver reported to FAA by "pilot"

Dude nailed that centerline.

Who cares about this stuff at uncontrolled field? He was crossing the dashed line and at the opposite end of the field.

Nobody talking about position and hold/line up and wait at an uncontrolled field with reported traffic in the pattern? That is a real safety concern.

This is a really old thread. Whoops.
 
Radar Contact said:
I’m not sure we all agree on that. Can you show me a regulation that supports your position?
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Man, don’t force me to agree with pfarber. Lol

“bad” doesn’t not mean a violation of a regulation.
 
pfarber said:
Whenever a pilut mentions how many hours thry jave or types they have flown that nothing more than trying to bully your position into being accepted. Seems that most of the airline crash videos i see are all from highly trained piluts with thousands of hours.

So P1D is a knob for mentioning his mad skills AFTER he admits to a bad call.

And it was a bad call. We all agre on that.

Mr air force pilut and jet owner is just butt hurt he got called out on a very minor issue .. after all he has ALL THE FLIGHT HOURS!!!!!
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The ONLY thing in your entire post I agree with is it was “very minor”, if that. About the equivalent of driving one mph over the speed limit and having some snot nosed little 15 year old b%tch who took 2 hours of driver’s Ed call the cops to report him. The dude saying “he’s been driving for 40 years” would just be to show his experience trumps the little twerps, and I’d agreed. But we’ve been thru this already, this is old news.
 
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I haven't seen any legitimate evidence in this thread that the youtuber violated a regulation (unless I missed it since this is a long thread). Anyone saying he has should cite the exact regulation.

Taken to the extreme, if he reported he was clear of the runway over the radio while he was dead smack in the middle of the runway, and then suddenly got a flat tire and just sat there stuck with no additional radio calls, and the other departing aircraft subsequently smacked into him, would the youtuber be in violation of a specific regulation then, and if so, which?
 
pfarber said:
And it was a bad call. We all agree on that.
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No we don't all agree on that.

Radar Contact said:
I’m not sure we all agree on that. Can you show me a regulation that supports your position?
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eman1200 said:
The ONLY thing in your entire post I agree with is it was “very minor”, if that. About the equivalent of driving one mph over the speed limit and having some snot nosed little 15 year old b%tch who took 2 hours of driver’s Ed call the cops to report him. The dude saying “he’s been driving for 40 years” would just be to show his experience trumps the little twerps, and I’d agreed. But we’ve been thru this already, this is old news.
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Bingo.
 
Lindberg said:
You're clear when you're past the edge of the runway. You don't have to be past the hold-short line.
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This is true, and making the call is okay at that point, but you are obligated to continue rolling past the hold-short line. Don't stop when you're just past the edge.
 
This was definitely on my mind during my checkride yesterday. I didn’t make any calls until past the hold short bars. That way I left nothing for interpretation.
 
kaiser said:
This was definitely on my mind during my checkride yesterday. I didn’t make any calls until past the hold short bars. That way I left nothing for interpretation.
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I can't think of a single follow up question to this post. nothing at all comes to mind. I guess I'll just go on about my day then.
 
pfarber said:
Seems that most of the airline crash videos i see are all from highly trained piluts with thousands of hours.
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"All airline crashes had airline pilots at the controls."

That's some amazing logic there.

Everytime a see a NASCAR crash I'm amazed at how bad those NASCAR drivers are. I haven't seen a single crash on TV that wasn't because of a NASCAR driver.

Edit:
Except for maybe this one:
q400-screen-grab_74470.jpg
 
Lindberg said:
Obligated by what? Hold-short lines at uncontrolled airports are essentially meaningless.
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Common sense, if nothing else. There’s no guarantee that the plane coming behind you will have its wings inside the runway edges.
 
Easy fix for all this at an uncontrolled airport just go NORDO or just don't say anything at all. You have the right to remain silent.
 
The guy made a bad call, that’s true. Possibly a side discussion, but calling the Feds…????

Side discussion is a good idea, as I can see a few situations where the early call could be a problem.
 
Sluggo63 said:
"All airline crashes had airline pilots at the controls."

That's some amazing logic there.

Everytime a see a NASCAR crash I'm amazed at how bad those NASCAR drivers are. I haven't seen a single crash on TV that wasn't because of a NASCAR driver.

Edit:
Except for maybe this one:
q400-screen-grab_74470.jpg
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WTF? Link?
 
Sluggo63 said:
"All airline crashes had airline pilots at the controls."
That's some amazing logic there.
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Don't forget these:

American Airlines Flight 11
United Airlines Flight 175
American Airlines Flight 77
United Airlines Flight 93


-
 
Half Fast said:
Common sense, if nothing else. There’s no guarantee that the plane coming behind you will have its wings inside the runway edges.
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That's not what the hold short line is about. And some airports have the holding lines well away from the runway exit.
 
Piperonca said:
Don't forget these:

American Airlines Flight 11
United Airlines Flight 175
American Airlines Flight 77
United Airlines Flight 93


-
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Okay… ????
What’s your point? obviously all airline crashes had airline pilots at the controls..???
At least initially
 
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Lindberg said:
That's not what the hold short line is about. And some airports have the holding lines well away from the runway exit.
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Fine. You just stop wherever you feel like it, then, and hope for the best. I’ll keep rolling and not stop with my tail feathers an inch from the runway edge, but hey, that’s just me.
 
Flying out of a Bravo controllers expect your call after landing to be clear of RW( ) at taxiway( ). Meaning past the line.

And my cfi in primary hammered it home to ensure clear of the active before worrying about talking to ATC.

At a field without ATC? Communication is necessary.

Was he clear of the active when he said he was? Not really. Not per Bravo standards :biggrin:​

He could have done better. I do and I just fly 180 Hp bangers around.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
FSDO told him it was someone upset about the response to his comment on the video.

Now, can we move on to roasting the guy who pulled out on the runway at an uncontrolled field to sit and "hold short" with his back to known (and unknown) traffic in the pattern? Is there enough info via the video / flightaware / whatever to figure out who it was and report to the FSDO?

(Kidding. But it will happen. You will show up in someone's video...)
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Absolutely report the guy! How can you be "holding short" if you're already on the runway? I'd make the report myself, but I have more important things to do, such as ... take a nap, take a break, take a whiz, take a chance, take a sh+t, take a hint or take a hike.
 
I was all set to say "of course you have to get past the hold lines before you're technically clear of the runway" (though I have no issue with the Premier pilot's actions).

Then I found this in the AIM, 4-3-20:

Exiting the Runway After Landing
The following procedures must be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.

b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the runway edge and there are no restrictions to its continued movement beyond the runway holding position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions, the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding position markings associated with the landing runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude into or cross another taxiway or ramp area.

Bolding mine, but that pretty clearly says "you're off the runway once you're past the edge". But then that you are expected to keep taxiing past the hold line.

Of course, at one of my local airports, there isn't even a hold line at the mid-field exit (the most common exit for light aircraft).

upload_2022-3-6_9-30-19.png
 
Kritchlow said:
Okay… ????
What’s your point? obviously all airline crashes had airline pilots at the controls..???
At least initially
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1) Responding to pfarber and Sluggo, to add the 9-11 crashes to the stolen Horizon Air crash. There may be one from Russia where a pilot's youngster was allowed at the controls with fatal results. This is a short list, and that's a blessing.

2) Connecting more closely to the thread, my hat's off to every line pilot who is not only responsible for life and limb of his passengers, but who has to follow every single P and Q of the Rules in real time. Plus get graded on a frequent basis whether he/she screws up or not. I can't think of a profession more scrutinized. Add military and corporate, plus government agencies too. I'm still missing some probably.

Even brain surgeons don't take checkrides. And if they mess up, it's only one casualty.
 
It seems like aviation on the internet brings all kinds of snitches.
 
Rgbeard said:
I’m too lazy to page thru this in detail.

Does anyone know if the FAA-reporting student pilot is still a student?
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No idea about that, but I'm willing to bet he's still a Karen.
 
woodchucker said:
Flying out of a Bravo controllers expect your call after landing to be clear of RW( ) at taxiway( ). Meaning past the line.

And my cfi in primary hammered it home to ensure clear of the active before worrying about talking to ATC.
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This is how these confusing urban legends start. Yes, you have to be "past the line."

What line?

Hint: It's not the hold short line...

Runway lines.jpg

Like @RussR found in the AIM:

RussR said:
An aircraft is considered clear of the runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the runway edge ...
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You have to be past the runway edge. Most bigger airports have runway edge lines. I was always taught (and taught others) that you have to be past the edge line to be clear. I'm sure at some point in urban legend history some CFI told someone "you have to be past the line" and the student understood that to be the "hold short line" and that student became a CFI and taught others that they have to be past the hold short line to be clear of the runway, and it propagated from there.

Lindberg said:
That's not what the hold short line is about. And some airports have the holding lines well away from the runway exit.
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Exactly, look at the example from DVT above. If you clear 25L northbound at the circled taxiway, look how far you'd have to go to be "clear" of the runway if you were using the hold short line. It makes no sense.
 
I am willing to bet that POA has spent far more time on this event than the FAA did. I would imagine the investigating ASI, basically just looked at it and sighed before labeling it as a big fat nothing burger. They have far too many events to investigate that have actual safety implications or true regulatory violations than to waste their time on nonsense like this.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I am willing to bet that POA has spent far more time on this event than the FAA did. I would imagine the investigating ASI, basically just looked at it and sighed before labeling it as a big fat nothing burger. They have far too many events to investigate that have actual safety implications or true regulatory violations than to waste their time on nonsense like this.
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the 'nonsense' is by far the bigger issue than the issue itself.
 
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