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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by PaulS, Jun 27, 2020.
Another youtuber reported to FAA, apparently by a student pilot. WTF is wrong with people.
The kid that reported it is a student pilot. It seems the kids info, Facebook, Twitter, etc is all over now. He has been getting beat up pretty bad. Think this kids pilot career is done.
That kid is a complete clown. Greg is as professional and proficient as it gets.
Wait until the student pilot sees a video of a little event called Oshkosh. His head might explode!
Another Frank Burns. Hopefully, he learned a lesson.
I saw the issue watching the video right away. Making a call that is not accurate does not show “good situational awareness”, it’s, as he says himself, sloppy. It’s great he was situationally aware, but he could have said clearing instead of cleared.
Do I think he should be reported? Of course not, that’s ridiculous. But I didn’t get the feeling that he’d do anything different the next time from watching this video. I’d rather he not say anything than say he’s clear when he’s not. If I were the guy ready to launch it would not make me feel better when I heard “clear” when I can still see the thing on the runway. Not a bit. I’d sit there until I saw he was clear with my own eyes. So his saying clear when he wasn’t wouldn’t help me out one bit. “Clearing”, or even “I’ll be clear in a moment” would be much more “clear”.
what’s the big deal taking a phone call from the Faa to say “we agree with you”? Seemed like someone in the military that long should be used to that sort of thing.
Bottom line, the student pilot was right, and he was wrong. even though he was a snot nose punk that I have no respect for, he was right.
I agree with you, but calling the FSDO because you got your feelings hurt in the comments section is right up there with calling 911 and trying to get the SWAT team to knock down your neighbor's door.
The social media shaming makes me very uncomfortable, however.
This was open last night, but is closed this morning, I'm thinking this kid wasn't going to get too far with his flying career anyway. He raised $738 of the $76,000 he was trying to raise.
There are enough real egregious safety issues that should get reported to the FAA and don't. But here we have social media vigilantes that rather tie up safety inspector's time chasing down airmen who report being clear of the runway literally two seconds early. I can't Possibly see how even a student pilot saw that as a safety concern.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing, while this is pretty cut and dry I'm still wondering how Greg knew it was this kid who ratted him out versus some other moron.
I forgot about the GoFundMe. He probably thought causing a stir with a major youtuber would generate donations and it badly backfired on him.
When you put stuff on the internet, expect it to get scrutinized. Look at the guy (Wagoner somthing or other...) who posts videos of himself doing all of the wrong things he can in an airplane. He gets rosted.
Mr. P1 Driver makes a simple mistake and gets called out. If you fly long enough you WILL make a call like that, but in the end it's the CONTROL tower that makes the call and is responsible. Looking at the video, P1 Driver owns his "mistake" and moves on. Sure it's a pompus move by the kid to (preportedly) call the FAA but shouldn't we hold ourselves accountable?
Some of ya'll have never had any interaction (postive or negative) with the FAA and it shows. I had a tire blow on a runway at a large towered airport. Three weeks later the FAA called and wanted to ask me about me "losing an engine" over the runway. I told the guy what happened and he simply asked me to send a photo of the logbook signoff where the tire was changed. Easy stuff.
Hmmm, that's a thought. I've told my kids that if I ever find them begging for money for anything other than emergency food because they are near starvation I would disown them. Get a job.
Nothing like a good internet snit. The early call of the runway clearing was obvious and easily picked up in the video, but is of zero safety significance. While a bit sloppy, escalating it to the FAA is a colossal waste of everyone's time, not to mention being self-serving and immature.
I'm sure no pilot on this board has EVER called clear of the runway while exiting...
Trying not to cross the political line here...
It sure seems to me that tattling on your neighbor, ratting out your coworker, and reporting that which offends you is the new norm.
If you expose yourself, your views, beliefs, or even your hobbies, you may be at risk of crowd think ostracizing you to the extent you can't be who you are without risk.
Best to fly under the radar... And doing YouTube is like having ADSB and doing aerobatics in a Bravo... Or at least it seems that way.
fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
Would it still been a violation if he said “I’m departing the runway “.
Technically accurate, although not the normal call phrasing.
You mean cultivating a culture of “If you see something, say something” results in people tattling for insignificant things? Who would have imagined that?
Unless it’s a runway with enough of a hump in the middle that one end can’t be seen from the other, why even make a “clear of the runway” call?
The correct way for the Student Pilot to handle this would be for him to contact the Jet Driver directly.
The “take it to YouTube” attitude is in this case an egregious error.
sure we should, and that can and should be done by simple conversation. I don't blame the punk student pilot one bit for bringing it up as a comment/question but that's as far as it should go. ESPECIALLY when you're a student and have no real world experience, who the F are you to report anyone for anything? bring it up with your cfi.
@Daniel Millican has mentioned it a few times. watch any one of his videos and u can find a list of things that, well, "need to be discussed" ahem, and he's mentioned it a couple of times that he LEARNED from the CONVERSATION. no reporting necessary. as annoying as some of the comments can be, sometimes just pointing something out can lead to a good discussion and a learning point. wtf does reporting do for anyone, other than waste everyone's times?
Situational awareness for two other aviators. Required? No. Polite? Yes.
FSDO told him it was someone upset about the response to his comment on the video.
Now, can we move on to roasting the guy who pulled out on the runway at an uncontrolled field to sit and "hold short" with his back to known (and unknown) traffic in the pattern? Is there enough info via the video / flightaware / whatever to figure out who it was and report to the FSDO?
(Kidding. But it will happen. You will show up in someone's video...)
In regards to the guy who lined up wait, there seem plenty of time, the traffic in the pattern was on the downwind. I know it’s a judgment call, but if nobody is on final, I see no reason not to take off.
I was thinking the same thing. I would not have pulled out onto that runway with landing traffic and someone on downwind. For all I know that jet could have taken longer to exit the runway and/or the traffic on downwind could have done a real short base final. Just too many unknowns to be sitting on the end of a runway at an uncontrolled field in that situation (for me).
I just don't understand people that fly and put videos on youtube. Seems like all of them, except Jerry, have gotten calls from the FSDO about things that people have complained about. Is that worth a bunch of views? I don't see it. I have a friend that says I need to video my flights and put them on YT. No F'n way! I have way too much to lose.
There is a guy named Bruno that has a lot of glider videos on line, which I really enjoy watching. He got asked to do an impromptu airshow performance, and got a 7 month license suspension. Here is the video:
There is a point at which tattling/ratting/reporting/snitching is acceptable: when someone is injured, financially or physically. Otherwise, don't be a [I got banned for posting a 'work-around' to a certain word, but there are plenty that are appropriate; fill in your own.]
Yeah, I saw that video when it first came out and thought doing that might not be legal. I guess it wasn't, duly noted.
Premier 1 is a class act. Kudos to him.
Exactly. It's a waste of radio time and energy. I don't bother with it myself, unless as you said, there's a hump/hill that obscures the view of the other end.
A few thoughts on this one, which many of you will know better than to read:
If you get reported to the FAA for a youtube you exposed to the world, you bought your own problem.
If you have that problem, why is the immediate response to jump right back on youtube and make another video?
Why do the youtube heros always include their lack of need for the youtube money?
As to the incident (no finger air quotes needed): I saw it on the initial playing and agree it was a nothing burger.
There's a whole bunch wrong with this entire fiasco. I agree, completely, that the student pilot's reporting of the "infraction" was needless and certainly not driven by a single good intention... it was a totally unnecessary, self-serving, juvenile, ego-driven lousy thing to do.
Having said that, Greg's reaction came off almost equally self-serving and unattractive. I don't know him at all, and don't "follow" anybody YouTube or any other form of "social media," but I'll take it as fact that he is a very respected, very experienced professional pilot with a lot to offer. His claim that he only posts YouTube videos for his viewers and to be helpful does not ring true, only because it is NEVER true. Part of the reasons anyone posts videos are ego, self-gratification, and self-affirmation. Some posters are ENTIRELY driven by the increasingly prevalent "look at ME!" attitude in today's society, while others may post truly helpful stuff with ego-driven motivations kept firmly in check.. it's a continuum, like most things. My favorite youtube videos are the ones without ANY background music, quickly edited, with a robot voice concisely narrating the steps for whatever repair I'm trying to learn how to do. THAT is a helpful video, done for the viewers. Greg's response video was certainly not done for his viewers... It was done for his admittedly needlessly assaulted ego. A better man would have just said what he did say.. that he did slightly overstep a reg, had been contacted by the FAA and they found nothing that needed addressing, and that he had learned something from the experience... and then STOPPED there. Going on to belittle and bemoan in public social media was as unnecessary, unproductive, and unattractive as the original obnoxious act of filing the FAA report. "Thanks for keeping me honest, kid. Attention to detail is always a good thing... Keep that attitude with your own flying and studies and you'll do well. Let's all work together. " That response to the kid's original comment would have defused this entire mess. Egos suck.
Greg is a great pilot, and has now said I really do not need this crap, he has all he needs and posts the videos for us to enjoy, I hope he sticks around, but he has a lot to lose, at the same time, not being able to fly could impact his business, so why risk it I would not.
Greg, let it go have fun and fly, not worth it.
Are you of the belief he reads PoA? The video was posted by a member, not him.
I don't really know.. I thought I recalled Greg saying as much in his response video, but I could be wrong. No interest in watching it again. I'm a pretty green pilot compared to many here, under 200 hours, and will gladly defer to your experience. Calling "clear of the runway" before you actually are may not violate a reg, but it isn't best practice, either. I stand corrected about the reg violation.. thank you.
I'll agree that it was of minimal safety significance but will disagree that it was of zero/no significance. There are lots of what-ifs that could easily play out over 1 second let alone 5 seconds; I mean most mistakes and accidents occur in the span of less than a second. I myself have had more times than I can count or care to admit where I've created situations that have required a boatload more work over the span of minutes/hours/days/weeks over a boneheaded mistake that took only a second to make and I've wished I could have back.
I 100% agree with Salty. The justification both in the original video comment and in this video just seemed lacking. That 5 seconds wasn't going to matter to anyone; not the guy waiting to take off or the guy presumably still on downwind. It was just sloppy airmanship that he got called out on by a student pilot and then tried to cover-up/dismiss and justify by arguing "well there was a guy waiting on the runway and someone on downwind and I was situationally aware." If being courteous was that important and those 5 seconds were really going to make a difference, he would have gotten on his brakes and made the first turn off some 800 ft and 10-15 seconds earlier; he admits on the video that he can make that turn off, but he chose not to. Beyond acknowledging in this video that it is a technical violation, he shows zero signs of self-recognition and striving to do better next time, in fact his entire attitude during this video suggest to me that the next video he posts will have the exact same call being made and maybe even more pointedly so (though that might fly too much in the face of the FAA for them not to take action...)
As to the phone call from the FAA... The whole process with the FAA is and has been changing for some time. The whole educate and comply regime is a good thing and while the report and investigation was a waste of the FAA's time, I dont see what the big deal is taking a phone call from the FAA that says "we agree with you" or for that matter says "hey, we can see your point but here are some examples of where that 5 seconds turned into a much larger delay that could have (or did) caused a problem so please try to do better next time." I understand the inherent threat to your certificate and I dont like that but that's what many of these calls really are these days... If you're going to get into a snit over it, the chances are that much greater that you'll have your license pulled as a result.
I agree that the issue was a bit much to call the FSDO about but, while we know they played a part (or at least Premier1 indicated the FSDO inspector stated as much) I think it was more than just the hurt feelings. I mean reading Premier 1's response in the comments several times in as many view points as I can, I keep coming away with the fact that he doesn't really answer the kids question about the regs or training and his entire attitude towards the kid is "I'm right and you and everything you've been taught is wrong." Even in this response video, Premier 1 equivocates, acknowledging the kid is correct and it is technically a violation but its ok because he was situationally aware... No one likes to have their point of view dismissed and invalidated.
When the kid tried to engage a second time in the original video comment, he got no response at all and the kid took his issue to a higher authority. Where I think the kid errored was in determining that higher authority to be the FAA; they are the MAD/nuclear option, the ultimate authority, like the supreme court if you will but there were "lower courts" he could and should have gone to first. If I were in the same situation, I personally would have taken it to my CFI first and now that I am a CFI myself, I would take it to fellow CFI's and pilots to get an opinion on first and/or try to engage Premier 1 as a CFI as opposed to the easily dismissed student pilot (not that my experience is anywhere on par with Premier 1's but therein lies the problem with "experience" its impossible to truly measure ).
The social media shaming was terrible and frankly wholly unprofessional in my opinion. Premier 1 could have just taken the call and said nothing. He could have taken the call and used it and his platform as an opportunity to educate or have an open discussion around the practice of calling clear before being clear and the potential safety issues therein. Heck, I'd even allow him to share and vent his frustrations had he kept it purely about the report and call but he crossed the line. He took to his platform to denigrate a fellow pilot (student or not the kid has flown a plane and is a pilot) and named names while riling up his base. The results were totally predictable in my opinion and for all his talk about how the call to the FAA was a threat to his business, he may have just introduced a new, even greater legal threat to his business as he could be held liable for damages as the predictable result of statements made on his youtube channel. The kid has been doxed and physically threatened and should something happen to him, well you will have a CEO of a company who owns his own jet plane facing off against the grieving family of an aspiring pilot who's injury stemmed from the careless/reckless commentary of the CEO... Jury's love that; bring your popcorn.
It was premature, but radio calls are not required at non-towered airports.