New Garmin Instrumentation - Look Good!

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Rob58, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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  2. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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  3. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    The KI 256 is the device it replaces. It provides attitude to one of the KAP or KFC models. So what matters is if your KAP or KFC is on the list. The KI 256 is the part you throw away, er, sell
     
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  4. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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    Thanks for the help on that.
     
  5. farmrjohn

    farmrjohn Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Anyone find a link for the STC AML?
     
  6. Hank

    Hank Filing Flight Plan

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    I was getting a quote on a gnx 375 and dual G5's, but last night my avionics guy let me know he was holding off on the quote until this was released since he thought it was definitely worth considering.

    Price-wise, it doesn't seem like as much of a slam-dunk as the G5. Maybe if you want to swap out an AI, but I'm not seeing the value proposition once you decide to replace multiple gauges. When you start talking about combining AI, HSI, & EIS (and with the synthetic vision unlock charge) - why wouldn't you just move to a G3X? Is it just that the installation cost on cutting a new panel and installing a G3X is that obscene?

    I'm still cutting my teeth to a certain extent on avionics so feel free to shine a light on my stupidity.
     
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  7. chemgeek

    chemgeek Cleared for Takeoff

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    The G5s are still relatively new products, are very affordable, add tremendous value, and will work with your chosen avionics. If G5s somewhat you want, why not?
     
  8. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    We have been waiting to get our plane into the shop for a dual G5 + GNX 375 install, too. I, too am having a hard time understanding what all these new options would add that the G5s lack.
     
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  9. Hank

    Hank Filing Flight Plan

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    Considering we're having the same reaction, perhaps our installation isn't the target demographic. Considering the 375 has a reasonable display and interfaces with an IPad, that makes some of the MFD functionality (map, traffic, etc.) less relevant. I'd also be curious to know what the sensor package/harness would cost for the EIS.

    Is there anything that this setup will do that a G5 won't in terms of driving a GFC500 autopilot (part of my phase 2 install).
     
  10. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    What am I not understanding about this new product and compatibility with your Century III? The attitude driver?

    upload_2020-1-15_15-48-22.png
     
  11. AA5Bman

    AA5Bman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It will provide *some* attitude-based APs what they need, but specifically not the IIs and IIIs.

    You need a check box under the GYRO (Attitude) for it to work as the AI. It'll still take heading/GPSS input from the HSI version, but if you want to ditch your AI (and vacuum system altogether), you'd lose your Century II/III autopilot functionality.
     
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  12. Kent Wien

    Kent Wien Pre-Flight

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    I’m scheduled for dual G5 and a 375 in March. This looks fantastic though.

    Two questions I have for anyone here:

    Can the DG be slaved using the GMU 11 magnetometer?

    And can a temperature probe be added (as on the G5) for winds, TAS and density altitude readout?
     
  13. jallen0

    jallen0 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    After two pages on this thread no one has brought up the one issue I may have. Is it too small a device to cram all that information on?
     
  14. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    I brought it up in my post. Too much clutter. Hopefully there’s a way to declutter. They already have this on the Cirrus but I never use it. I always just use the traditional HSI with no information on it.
     
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  15. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-takeoff checklist

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    For class I & II aircraft, yes, you can install the GMU 11 magnetometer (for the larger aircraft you'd need to install the GMU 44B). Even better than with the G5 and on par with the ESI-500, the GI-275 actually powers the GMU11 and so in the case of an electrical failure its backup battery will power the magnetometer. And yes, re: temp probe, a GTP59 is actually required depending on the installation modality.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  16. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Yes, I realized that after I posted. The chart is a little confusing as autopilots that don't need attitude also have that box unchecked. Plus there wasn't a whole lot of expository text explaining other aspects of the chart either.

    So, the AV-30S still has a market after all. I suppose Garmin chose today to announce the GI-275 in order to steal thunder from the AV-30S announcement rumored to be tomorrow.
     
  17. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    • Less panel surgery
    • Higher resolution screen
    • Touch screen
    • Synthetic vision
    • Terrain
    • Traffic
    • Weather
    • Moving map
    • Replaces more than AI/HSI
    • Can remove airspeed and altitude gauges
    • Will supply attitude to some autopilots
    • WiFi
    • Bluetooth
     
  18. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-takeoff checklist

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    To add to what @asicer wrote, it will also work with older analog radios to display CDI info (appears to only have one set of analog connections though), and doesn't require an adaptor like the G5s do (GAD29) to interface to either the digital or analog radios and other equipment. Also, unlike the G5 where you can't connect dual navigators to the G5 unless you don't have an AP or it's a Garmin AP, the GI-275 has the ability to output the analog signals (switching based on selected source) for the autopilot (on the -20 units), so there should be no such restriction. While these are quite a bit more than G5s, they are basically like mini-TXis and are built and certified to full TSO specs, so it's much more robust hardware.
     
  19. Kent Wien

    Kent Wien Pre-Flight

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    Thank you for your knowledge in this, Ryan!

    Are you saying that the GI 275 might be able to display the winds just like the G5? I’d be getting the Attitude, HSI and Multi-Function versions.
     
  20. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I fully expect that it will at some point... I don't see mention of it currently in the pilots guide (http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-02246-01_a.pdf) but it should have everything it needs to calculate them, so if it's not there currently (maybe I'm just missing it, or it was left out of the guide for some reason), I'd be shocked if it didn't come in an update.
     
  21. AA5Bman

    AA5Bman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hmmm... not so fast. I haven’t heard anything from the AV-30 folks to suggest their unit will provide attitude information to any autopilots. I even called them and asked, because I’m trying to figure out the best route for my Century II. Maybe they still have a market, but it’s not in providing attitude-based autopilot owners an upgrade path.
     
  22. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Well, yes but when displaying a CDI it really is just a CDI replacement. You'd mount it where you'd normally put a CDI, not where you'd put a DG or HSI because it is only providing primarily CDI functionality plus a few extra fancy bells and whistles. However, considering the GI-106 conventional CDI is $2400 on Aircraft Spruce while the fancy-pants GI-275 CDI is $2800 at Sarasota, I know which one I'd be leaning towards if I needed a new CDI.

    To paraphrase, they said "someday". This is from the FAQ section of the AV-30 page on the uAvionix website:

    Annotation 2020-01-15 204322.png
     
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  23. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It’s the same for any configuration it is displaying course deviation indications (HSI) ... my point was that unlike the G5 that can’t interface to an older analog navigator at any price, the GI-275 can out of the box, and for some, that’s important.
     
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  24. flyer770

    flyer770 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  25. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I have always wondered why they didn’t add more features in G5, for example SVT on the HSI page. Guess this is their answer... one can hope that the feature will come to G5 as well
     
  26. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    I wonder if they will even continue the G5 at all.
     
  27. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 En-Route

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    They will probably make it the G5Xi. ;)
     
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  28. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Cleared for Takeoff

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    Maybe the hardware doesn't support the graphics?
     
  29. Luigi

    Luigi Pre-takeoff checklist

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    While Garmin makes excellent products they sure are masters of planned obsolescence.
     
  30. chemgeek

    chemgeek Cleared for Takeoff

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    There is only so much you can do with 320x240 pixel resolution and a limited CPU in the G5. The GI275 has a higher resolution touch screen and likely a more capable processor, hence the additional cost.
     
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  31. AA5Bman

    AA5Bman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Huh. That is interesting, and a little hopeful. When I talked to them about this, it was almost like they didn’t know what an attitude-based autopilot was. I was kinda like “hoo boy, never mind...”.

    I hope they get it done. I’d probably end up with a bit of a franken-panel with a G5 HSI or GI275 HSI and an AV-30 AI, but at least it would preserve my AP and let me ditch my vacuum system. That said, “someday” in aviation terms is usually not very promising.

    I highly doubt Garmin will add support for these older AP units. They have a way of forcing you down the upgrade path, and it seems transparent their game is to get the Century II/III people onto the GFC500. I’m actually pretty surprised they listed as many APs as they did.
     
  32. asicer

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    Just out of curiosity, did you call Aerovonics before they got bought? Or did you call uAvionix after the buyout?
     
  33. BGF_Yankee

    BGF_Yankee Line Up and Wait

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    Except that my airframe is on neither the GFC500 or GFC600 AML...AND my CIII is working perfectly...so...it's like Garmin is pushing me toward Aspen more and more every day as they are saying they don't care about my airframe or my autopilot.
     
  34. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I believe they will, these new units are smaller, more expensive and won't be palatable for a lot of people. In fact the EAB homebuilt crowd is already hammering on them because they buy G5s all day long at ~$1200 each, these new instruments start around $3k and go up from there.

    The bottom line is these new instruments pick up where the G5 leaves off, both in functionality options and connectivity. You won't find a G5 in a FIKI pressurized twin (installed under the garmin STC anyways) the GI275 will be approved for those, and even part 23 turbojets.

    Even if I needed a CDI, I just can't fathom spending $3k on a new GI275 when I can buy nice used GI106A for $1k.

    The GI275 backup battery is twice the price of a G5 battery.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  35. farmrjohn

    farmrjohn Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thanks. My plane made the list, but alas it's not on any autopilot lists that I can find (which would be a nice feature)
     
  36. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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    Am I the only one who prefers the AV-30 for $2K instead of the GI-275 for $4K?

    AV30-GI275.png
     
  37. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Only one of them is certified. So for those needing a certified option, they will prefer that one.
     
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  38. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Cleared for Takeoff

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    Can it replace a KI-256 and drive a KFC-200?
     
  39. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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    The certified AV-30 is forthcoming. Don't need a solution this week.
     
  40. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    Theres a good chance the certified one will cost more...
     
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