New Garmin Instrumentation - Look Good!

[NordicDave]

Theres a good chance the certified one will cost more...

There certified price is $2K, EA version is $1600

Certified AV-30: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/uavionix_11-17556.php?clickkey=66910

Experimental AV-30: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/uavionix_av-30.php?clickkey=66910

 

[Salty]

The certified AV-30 is forthcoming. Don't need a solution this week.

Until it exists, it doesn’t exist. Just like my modern autopilot for my short bodied Mooney.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Am I the only one who prefers the AV-30 for $2K instead of the GI-275 for $4K?

View attachment 81987

Actually, I'm with you. sometimes too much stuff is just simply too much. I wish they would sell just a simple BT AHRS backup AI, kinda like the Dynon D3, only simpler.

 

[PPC1052]

Am I the only one who prefers the AV-30 for $2K instead of the GI-275 for $4K?

View attachment 81987

I think I need to see them in person, but if the synthetic vision aspect works on such a small display, I think that would make me lean toward the Garmin.

 

[AA5Bman]

Just out of curiosity, did you call Aerovonics before they got bought? Or did you call uAvionix after the buyout?

It was after - not that long ago because I’ve been trying to sort out my avionics situation since just a little before Thanksgiving and I wasn’t even paying attention to this stuff before then. I don’t know that my conversation was the definitive word on the attitude-based AP subject, so I don’t want to mislead, but the person I talked to - who was probably a mid level guy - was like “yeah we don’t have any plans for that”. I even explained the business case: Garmin does everything you do and more (sure at a different price point), the one thing they seem unwilling to do is support for this type of AP. Give me a reason to go off the Garmin reservation, because otherwise they’re way more of a known quantity, even if you have to pay for it. It fell on dead ears.

Except that my airframe is on neither the GFC500 or GFC600 AML...AND my CIII is working perfectly...so...it's like Garmin is pushing me toward Aspen more and more every day as they are saying they don't care about my airframe or my autopilot.

True, but their answer to this is to expand their AML, which everyone says they’re working on.

 

[Morgan3820]

Actually, I'm with you. sometimes too much stuff is just simply too much. I wish they would sell just a simple BT AHRS backup AI, kinda like the Dynon D3, only simpler.

How about the AV-20S? Get it now for $895. I have given it some thought.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Don't worry, soon you'll be able to get a Garmin Clock and USB port device for only $1000.

It's a Mid-Continent, and it's $674. https://www.mcico.com/clocks-3/6420093-1

Very interested in the EIS

Definitely an interesting option. Garmin's starts at $5295. The roughly-equivalent JPI 900 is about the same price. EI's very similar CGR-30P is about $800 cheaper.

We have been waiting to get our plane into the shop for a dual G5 + GNX 375 install, too. I, too am having a hard time understanding what all these new options would add that the G5s lack.

They're round (which may be an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your situation and what's in your panel.)
They're higher resolution.
They've got more abilities (ie Synthetic Vision on the AI or the "HSI Map" on the HSI)
They can drive legacy attitude-based autopilots.
They've more up-to-date CPU and display technology.
They don't require you to keep your legacy altimeter and airspeed indicator.
They can be mounted in your existing panel holes rather than either on top of the holes or cutting the panel.
They can be more things (CDI, EIS, MFD, etc) and can be mounted in more places.

This is going to be a big deal... At least as big as the G5. Very cool.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Actually, I'm with you. sometimes too much stuff is just simply too much. I wish they would sell just a simple BT AHRS backup AI, kinda like the Dynon D3, only simpler.

This GI275 can do that:

It can also add synthetic vision to the simple display:

It can also give you all the bells and whistles, if you so choose:

 

[Rob58]

Garmin will not steel every AV-30 customer away from uAvionix, however they will certainly put a major dent in AV-30 sales. This will result in less revenue and profits to energize the future enhancement of AV-30 product line and any potential successor products. I thought the AV-30 was an innovative new product when I first saw it two years ago, but the failure to get the product certified has been a major liability. I now fear that uAvionix might abandon this market and focus on their core strengths. We need a strong response from them and we need it soon.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

This GI275 can do that:

It can also add synthetic vision to the simple display:

It can also give you all the bells and whistles, if you so choose:

Not via Bluetooth , still requires an RS232 connection, tso to be a panel mount and all the rest of that noise, plus $3k. I have a perfectly good AI. I just want a "portable" backup that can take advantage of the native BT AHRS Garmin so thoughtfully included in the 175. But A. There's no relatively inexpensive device that does simply that and b. it only works with Garmin Pilot. It seems to me akin to installing a coin-operated defibrillator. It can save your life, but there's just one thing...

And even if I did buy one of those and pulled my vacuum system, I'd still want a backup for when the inevitable red "x" appears.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

How about the AV-20S? Get it now for $895. I have given it some thought.

I have too, but boy that's a pretty small display. And even that has more bells X an whistles than I need/want.

 

[Bacho]

They don't require you to keep your legacy altimeter and airspeed indicator.


This is going to be a big deal... At least as big as the G5. Very cool.

Can just the AI really be primary for all lf that?

 

[bnt83]

I think once people start getting quotes they will understand the picture most shown on the internet will not be anywhere near the pricing of the base model GI 275, take these two attitude indicators for example.

these are scale-ish pictures.

 

[asicer]

It was after - not that long ago because I’ve been trying to sort out my avionics situation since just a little before Thanksgiving and I wasn’t even paying attention to this stuff before then.

Makes me wonder whether the old Aerovonics guys answered the phone or if the new uAvionix guys just weren't up to speed yet.

I just want a "portable" backup that can take advantage of the native BT AHRS Garmin so thoughtfully included in the 175. But A. There's no relatively inexpensive device that does simply that and b. it only works with Garmin Pilot.

Aera 660 doesn't fit the bill?

 

[bnt83]

Can just the AI really be primary for all lf that?

My understanding is that stanby instruments will be required.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Makes me wonder whether the old Aerovonics guys answered the phone or if the new uAvionix guys just weren't up to speed yet.


Aera 660 doesn't fit the bill?

Too big. I want it to fit in a 3 1/8" hole where the hdg/GPS button is now.

 

[wheaties]

I don't see any mention of the GI 275 driving the gfc 500. Seems like a killer feature missing there.

 

[asicer]

I don't see any mention of the GI 275 driving the gfc 500. Seems like a killer feature missing there.

Later this year. From Garmin's website:

 

[wheaties]

Thanks, @asicer.

 

[Paveslave53]

With 3 Of these things decked out in your panel your getting close the the price of a MFD. Of course
I just bought 2 G5’s. With the flight stream for my 430 and the Gad13 and the GTP59 I think I’ll be pretty happy. Here is my buddy’s debonair.... getting with it. I like the wind direction TAS/GS function and this is still a fraction of the cost of the new 275...... not As Nice but all the info I need. What are you lookig at for 1 decked out ADI and 2 additional spots ? 10-12k ?

 

[bnt83]

As the owner of two G5s, I don't regret buying them, these new instruments just reaffirm that the G5s were the way to go for my little airplane.

Sure I'd like a dedicated MFD about the size of the G5 screen but I could jut wire a Aera 660 to the GTX-345 and get what I want for far less money and bigger screen than the GI275 MFD.

 

[Jacob02]

Considering we're having the same reaction, perhaps our installation isn't the target demographic. Considering the 375 has a reasonable display and interfaces with an IPad, that makes some of the MFD functionality (map, traffic, etc.) less relevant. I'd also be curious to know what the sensor package/harness would cost for the EIS.

Is there anything that this setup will do that a G5 won't in terms of driving a GFC500 autopilot (part of my phase 2 install).

This is my exact question - what functionality do you get with dual G5 units and a GFC500 vs the GI275 and GFC500 autopilot?

 

[Jacob02]

• Less panel surgery
• Higher resolution screen
• Touch screen
• Synthetic vision
• Terrain
• Traffic
• Weather
• Moving map
• Replaces more than AI/HSI
• Can remove airspeed and altitude gauges
• Will supply attitude to some autopilots
• WiFi
• Bluetooth

Synthetic vision? Is it as accurate as it looks? It shows a 3D view of terrain?

 

[asicer]

Synthetic vision? Is it as accurate as it looks? It shows a 3D view of terrain?

Just a guess, but it's probably the same software code base as all of Garmin's other synthetic vision products. Or a fork of it.

 

[asicer]

Sure I'd like a dedicated MFD about the size of the G5 screen but I could jut wire a Aera 660 to the GTX-345 and get what I want for far less money and bigger screen than the GI275 MFD.

Do you even need the wire? Can't the GTX345/aera660 do everything over Bluetooth what it would otherwise do over RS232?

 

[bnt83]

Do you even need the wire? Can't the GTX345/aera660 do everything over Bluetooth what it would otherwise do over RS232?

You are correct, I’d probably just wire because it’s might be a more reliable and faster connection

 

[asicer]

You are correct, I’d probably just wire because it’s might be a more reliable and faster connection

It might actually be slower in terms of bandwidth. Garmin labels the serial line as "Connext57600" while Bluetooth goes 115200+. Don't know about latency, though.

 

[bnt83]

It might actually be slower in terms of bandwidth. Garmin labels the serial line as "Connext57600" while Bluetooth goes 115200+. Don't know about latency, though.

Now I have to wire it and see which is better!

 

[Fracpilot]

Do you even need the wire? Can't the GTX345/aera660 do everything over Bluetooth what it would otherwise do over RS232?

I BT my 345 to my 660. The Aera is wired to the GDL51 and GTN650. The 345 works great BT to the 660. The 345 is also BT to the iPad. The 660 is essentially an MFD with a ton of info feeding it.


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[flyingcheesehead]

Not via Bluetooth , still requires an RS232 connection, tso to be a panel mount and all the rest of that noise, plus $3k. I have a perfectly good AI. I just want a "portable" backup that can take advantage of the native BT AHRS Garmin so thoughtfully included in the 175. But A. There's no relatively inexpensive device that does simply that and b. it only works with Garmin Pilot. It seems to me akin to installing a coin-operated defibrillator. It can save your life, but there's just one thing...

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about a panel mount AI to replace a vacuum one, just without all the bells and whistles on the screen.

Can just the AI really be primary for all lf that?

Apparently so.

 

[asicer]

I BT my 345 to my 660. The Aera is wired to the GDL51 and GTN650. The 345 works great BT to the 660. The 345 is also BT to the iPad. The 660 is essentially an MFD with a ton of info feeding it.

So that brings up an interesting question:
What can a GI-275 MFD do that an aera 660 cannot?

 

[bnt83]

So that brings up an interesting question:
What can a GI-275 MFD do that an aera 660 cannot?

fit in a round hole, act as a legal CDI, probably a few more things.

 

[Fracpilot]

fit in a round hole, act as a legal CDI, probably a few more things.

Also the GI275 can legally replace all of your primary instruments allowing you to get rid of your vacuum system and steam gauges.

With 2 G5’s I have to keep some of the steam gauges.


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[bnt83]

Also the GI275 can legally replace all of your primary instruments allowing you to get rid of your vacuum system and steam gauges.

With 2 G5’s I have to keep some of the steam gauges.


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I don’t think they have published an installations limitations yet but I don’t believe two GI275s can replace all the steam flight instruments, if that is a goal I think you’re looking more than two 275 units and quite possibly pushing G3X costs and maybe higher.

 

[chemgeek]

So that brings up an interesting question:
What can a GI-275 MFD do that an aera 660 cannot?

You can't use an AERA 660 or any portable GPS for IFR navigation. However, for situational awareness, larger nav screens are certainly more usable. I use a venerable AERA 510 for backup GPS and as a dedicated XM WX display device. It's mounted and attached to ship power, with a custom harness to automatically crossfill with the GNS-430.

 

[asicer]

Also the GI275 can legally replace all of your primary instruments allowing you to get rid of your vacuum system and steam gauges.

No, not all. It can't replace TC/T&B. Garmin's photos also show the VSI remaining.

I don’t think they have published an installations limitations yet but I don’t believe two GI275s can replace all the steam flight instruments, if that is a goal I think you’re looking more than two 275 units and quite possibly pushing G3X costs and maybe higher.

There's this from the AFMS:

 

[asicer]

You can't use an AERA 660 or any portable GPS for IFR navigation.

Neither can you use a GI-275 configured as an MFD, I don't think. I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that the GI-275 would have to be configured as an ADI, HSI or CDI to be used for IFR navigation.

So with that in mind, what can a GI-275 MFD do that an aera 660 cannot?

Or to put it differently, suppose you had two G5's and want an MFD. What would make you choose a GI-275 over an aera 660?

 

[chemgeek]

Neither can you use a GI-275 configured as an MFD, I don't think. I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that the GI-275 would have to be configured as an ADI, HSI or CDI to be used for IFR navigation.

So with that in mind, what can a GI-275 MFD do that an aera 660 cannot?

Or to put it differently, suppose you had two G5's and want an MFD. What would make you choose a GI-275 over an aera 660?

The MFD will be configured to display information from your IFR-certified navigator and/or ADS-B device. If you already have G5s and a good, integrated moving map display already, the GI275 does not add a lot of additional capability with its small screen. My AERA is still relegated to emergency/backup GPS nav, and an independent WX display device. It can't be used to fly IFR approaches or (legally) for enroute IFR navigation. Quite frankly, a tablet EFB that communicates with my ADS-B transponder to integrate traffic and WX has a far better display than any portable GPS unit. I keep the AERA mostly for access to XM WX.

What devices serve one best are determined by what one already has in the panel, and what kind of flying one does. A GI275 MFD would not be at the top of my list for IFR flying, especially with a working GNS-430, dual G5s and very usable separate WX/Traffic screen on the NGT-9000. The only one of the GI275 devices that might remotely interest me would be the engine monitor, but there are other competitors for that space with good products as well.

 

[asicer]

The MFD will be configured to display information from your IFR-certified navigator and/or ADS-B device.

I could be wrong but I don't think that makes it eligible for use as a primary navigation indicator. Also, an aera 660 is capable of both MapMx and Connext input simultaneously, so it too can be configured to display information from your IFR-certified navigator and/or ADS-B device. (I think the 660 is the first portable with this capability)

what can a GI-275 MFD do that an aera 660 cannot?

To answer my own question, I think I have come up with one situation:

Suppose you have a vacuum ADI, a Sandel HSI, GTN650Xi and a TKM MX12 as NAV2. You replace the ADI with a GI275 allowing you to pull the vacuum system. But in order to satisfy the backup requirement, you'd need a second GI275. Rather than swapping out the Sandel, you configure the second GI275 as an MFD.

This might be a somewhat rare corner case, though.

 

[Fracpilot]

No, not all. It can't replace TC/T&B. Garmin's photos also show the VSI remaining.

There's this from the AFMS:
View attachment 82051

I stand corrected. I didn’t notice this before posting. You’re correct, the TC/T&B and VSI appear to remain.


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