[NA] Thinking about an e-Pickup

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Dave Taylor
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Who isn’t these days, with diesel & gas soaring?
I can’t see it, in my situation, just yet.
I need the bed for hauling stuff.
Most of my driving is within 100mi.
5% of my driving is ‘to the city’ and both cities are 200mi away (400 total, and needing to stop for a charge is a deal-breaker for me - I don’t have the time or patience, and would worry about finding a station).
Also, in the summer these trips involve hours at 105°F, or in the winter 0°F… and sometimes a 30kt headwind, all which kills the range.
Plus, a high-range epickup might be $90,000.

So, unless I’m missing something….

I could use the edrive locally only and keep my 6 yo Tundra for the city trips.
But I find a rarely-driven vehicle becomes unreliable…and that’s not something I want on these longer trips.
 
Yeah diesel is expensive now. I've got a Chevy 3500 Duramax quad cab dually but only use it when I need a truck. The battery float charger keeps it ready to go. If you don't need a truck most of the time I would get a car for daily driving and reserve your truck for those times you really need one. I've surprised myself at how much I can carry in or on a Subaru outback.
 
I'm in the "need a pickup (or other truck) occasionally" camp. Just a few times a year. So rather than buying, and fueling, a truck to have around when I have those needs, I'm driving 15 year old Subarus that get relatively good mileage, have been paid off for over a decade and easily meet my needs when I go into town for groceries or the city to see family or other reasons.

Then, the few times a year I need to haul things, I rent a uhaul for a couple hundred bucks. I can rent a pickup if that's all I need or a box truck if I'm getting furniture, larger items or anything I don't want exposed to the weather.

Obviously this plan only works if your needs are infrequent enough to math out. But, for me, I'm sure I've saved a net ten or twenty grand since I moved back to the US by not buying a depreciating truck that drinks fuel like it's trying to win a bet.
 
What's the name of the company that offers the no-frills mod-it-yourself e-pickup?
 
Slate? A Jeff Bezos joint.

 
I was looking at hybrid pick ups,for my needs the mid size hybrid pick ups fit the bill.
 
A hybrid is considered but then you have the maintenance of another ICE

What is an ecar/suv that
-can haul a load, maybe even a 4x8 sheet of plywood with the hatch open
-has enough frontal strength to withstand a head on with an elk or a maybe a borderwall supply truck?
 
A hybrid is considered but then you have the maintenance of another ICE

What is an ecar/suv that
-can haul a load, maybe even a 4x8 sheet of plywood with the hatch open
-has enough frontal strength to withstand a head on with an elk or a maybe a borderwall supply truck?

Who cares? You already know the answer when you wrote "needing to stop for a charge is a deal-breaker for me". That one requirement means you are buying conventionally powered vehicle.

A Ford E-transit would be a good option for carrying things and being high enough off the ground the the elk might not be on your lap. But it's 100% designed for local tradies or people who don't mind making a couple stops when driving 400 miles. Not for people who have range as a deal breaker.
 
My F-150 only gets driven about 3000 miles per year and that is mostly towing the UTV's, maybe occasionally the glider and camping in the back of it.

Surprising how much I do with 2001 Corolla everyday driver and a 4x8 trailer. Also tow my glider up to about 50 miles with it.

I have been considering replacing the Corolla with something like a Toyota bz, that would still tow the smaller trailers.
But then I look at the price tag and perhaps putting a new engine in the Corolla and driving it another 200,000+ miles might be a cheaper option, in the short term for sure. Only issue with it now is it burns almost a quart oil per tank of gas. Even at that it still is cheap to drive.

Brian
 
I'm in the "need a pickup (or other truck) occasionally" camp. Just a few times a year. So rather than buying, and fueling, a truck to have around when I have those needs, I'm driving 15 year old Subarus that get relatively good mileage, have been paid off for over a decade and easily meet my needs when I go into town for groceries or the city to see family or other reasons.

Then, the few times a year I need to haul things, I rent a uhaul for a couple hundred bucks. I can rent a pickup if that's all I need or a box truck if I'm getting furniture, larger items or anything I don't want exposed to the weather.

Obviously this plan only works if your needs are infrequent enough to math out. But, for me, I'm sure I've saved a net ten or twenty grand since I moved back to the US by not buying a depreciating truck that drinks fuel like it's trying to win a bet.
My old Outback was my pickup, too. Anything that didn't fit would get put into a UHaul of some sort that I could tow. If whatever it was didn't fit or was too heavy, then I'd get a UHaul truck. Being able to tow a small trailer for something like $25/day with full damage waiver was a pretty good deal.
 
My old Outback was my pickup, too. Anything that didn't fit would get put into a UHaul of some sort that I could tow. If whatever it was didn't fit or was too heavy, then I'd get a UHaul truck. Being able to tow a small trailer for something like $25/day with full damage waiver was a pretty good deal.
The outback is like a harry potter tent. it can fit a surprising amount of stuff inside. To say nothing of the roof rails in addition.
 
The outback is like a harry potter tent. it can fit a surprising amount of stuff inside. To say nothing of the roof rails in addition.
The catch is the low tongue weight limit. The vehicle tow rating is (trying to remember, it’s been about 3 yrs) 3500 pounds. Rule of thumb is to put 10% weight on the ball to prevent sway. But the Outback has a 250lb (again, going from memory) limit. So you’re really limited to 2500 lb. That’s plenty for a vehicle that size, but it surprises a lot of people. But it was plenty of capacity for towing trailers for a number of college moves for my kids.
 
If you get an Outback with a turbo, the tow limit is 3500lb; with 10% on the ball.
Without the turbo, it was 2700lb tow limit.

This was for the 2025 model year (what I bought last year). I did not check current.

If you get a roof rack, they all have a 220lb max moving weight. The wilderness edition had a 750lb parked limit on the roof rack (designed to hold a roof tent).

Tim
 
If you get an Outback with a turbo, the tow limit is 3500lb; with 10% on the ball.
Without the turbo, it was 2700lb tow limit.

This was for the 2025 model year (what I bought last year). I did not check current.

If you get a roof rack, they all have a 220lb max moving weight. The wilderness edition had a 750lb parked limit on the roof rack (designed to hold a roof tent).

Tim
Thanks for the reminder. My ‘13 then was 2700lb with 250(?) maybe even 200 lb tongue wt limit. Still, you can pack the heavy things inside the vehicle and the bulky things in a trailer and stay under all the different weight limits. That was really handy. Every time I wanted a truck I thought about the well over 90% of the times that Outback could do the same job for me.
 
I got curious and had to look it up: my 2013 Outback was rated at 2700 lb towing with a 200 lb tongue wt limit. If you tried to keep 10% on the ball you were limiting yourself to 2000lb towing.

I remember one of the UHaul box trailers, probably the 5x8, had a sticker that said to use a minimum of 160lb on the tongue. So there was a 40 lb range of weight that was allowed. That was the trailer we pulled our daughter’s stuff from Fort Collins, CO to Greenville, NC. I was really glad to not see that trailer in the mirrors after that trip.
 
I got curious too but couldn't find reliable data on my 2010 3.6R. It has certainly successfully towed more than it was rated for on several occasions :D

stupid thing won't die. La Cuca-Ru-cha. 206K and just fires up on command... every other month or so when i wanna do something mucky. Today is drywall and electrical.
 
I got curious too but couldn't find reliable data on my 2010 3.6R. It has certainly successfully towed more than it was rated for on several occasions :D

stupid thing won't die. La Cuca-Ru-cha. 206K and just fires up on command... every other month or so when i wanna do something mucky. Today is drywall and electrical.
Yeah the 3.6 2010-2014 is a good vehicle. We currently have 4 of them. Around 250k you might get transmission issues. The valve body or torque converter goes out and will require replacement or transmission swap.
 
Yeah the 3.6 2010-2014 is a good vehicle. We currently have 4 of them. Around 250k you might get transmission issues. The valve body or torque converter goes out and will require replacement or transmission swap.

Why on earth do you have 4 of them?

We did the valve body at about 180K. $2500 or so, woof.

I think I double the thing's resale value every time I fill the tank. :D
 
Most of my driving is within 100mi.
5% of my driving is ‘to the city’ and both cities are 200mi away (400 total, and needing to stop for a charge is a deal-breaker for me - I don’t have the time or patience, and would worry about finding a station).
Let me reframe this for you a bit. What are you doing in "the city" and what are the cities? Specifics matter, because one of the great things about an EV is that you don't necessarily need to "stop to charge" depending on where you're going or what you're doing, if there's a charging station somewhere that you're already going. So, if the reason you're going to the city is to buy plywood at Home Depot and there's a charging station at the Home Depot, then you're not "stopping for a charge", you're just charging where you were going to be anyway, and you'd be surprised at how "stopping for gas" becomes wildly inconvenient after you're used to the EV.

Also, it's not like stations move around. If there are charging stations that are convenient to what you're going to the city for, then you're fine. If there aren't, then you're not. It's pretty black and white. You don't just randomly drive around looking for a charging station, you plan on it and go to the station you had planned. Keep in mind, you leave the house with a full "tank" on every trip.

Also, in the summer these trips involve hours at 105°F, or in the winter 0°F… and sometimes a 30kt headwind, all which kills the range.
The 105 might not be much of a problem. AC can be pretty efficient these days. 0 combined with a 30-knot headwind will probably require additional charging.

So, unless I’m missing something….

I could use the edrive locally only and keep my 6 yo Tundra for the city trips.
But I find a rarely-driven vehicle becomes unreliable…and that’s not something I want on these longer trips.
It doesn't sound like you're thinking about an EV pickup, it sounds like you're talking yourself out of one.

EVs are very reliable and cost much less to operate in most cases, but if you've already got a vehicle that does the job and is reasonably reliable (as I would expect a Toyota to be) you're not going to save money buying an expensive, quickly-depreciating asset to save on operating costs.

If you want to know what's out there that might meet your mission, really I think the Silverado EV and the Rivian R1T are the only ones that might do it.
 
@flyingcheesehead
el paso & midland, tx

-I hear occasional stories about charging stations being tied up by too many evehicles, or people parking there and wandering off for hours.
-maybe I want to shop for hours, can I wander off?
-how much of a walk is it from a charging station to my destination (haircut, Dr, supply house, big box store) maybe that requires an uber?
 
@flyingcheesehead
el paso & midland, tx
El Paso looks to be in great shape for charging. Several Level 3 fast charging stations, and a bunch more Level 2 stations (these add 20-30 miles of range per hour, perfect for "wandering off for hours"). Looking at the fast chargers, there's one kitty-corner from the Home Depot on Eastlake that has a boatload of food options nearby, another on the other side of town near Wal-Mart, Bass Pro Shop, Sherwin-Williams and also a ton of food options, and a couple in between at Rudy's Country Store and BBQ locations.

Midland has one fast charging station at the Love's travel center.

As I recall, you're from the Fort Davis area? On the way back from Midland, there's also one in Odessa, one in Pecos, and one in Balmorhea on your way home if needed. And on the way to El Paso, there's one at the Lowe's in Van Horn.

-I hear occasional stories about charging stations being tied up by too many evehicles, or people parking there and wandering off for hours.
It happens, but it's very rare. I'm 100,000 miles in on my Tesla (that's my fifth electrified vehicle), and I've encountered it exactly once, and a spot opened up in less than two minutes. And yes, there are jerks in the world, but I've never had an issue with that either.

I'm not sure how the software in the GM and Rivian vehicles is these days, but in my Tesla, if the charging station will be full when I get there it'll route me to different charging stations.

-maybe I want to shop for hours, can I wander off?
Best thing to do then is to use a Level 2 charger instead of a fast charger. That also opens up a lot more possible charging locations.

-how much of a walk is it from a charging station to my destination (haircut, Dr, supply house, big box store) maybe that requires an uber?
Now that's a thing I've never done.


Also, one thing to note: Let's say you get a Silverado EV with 420 miles of range, and you're going on a 400-mile round trip. Let's also say that cold and/or headwinds are going to reduce your range to 300 miles so you'll need to charge somewhere in the destination city.

I have had SO many people ask "how long does it take to charge from empty to full?" I literally don't know. That's not a thing you do. If it took 40 minutes because of the bigger battery on the pickup, or even an hour, that's still irrelevant - You don't want to charge to full! 0-80% takes about the same amount of time as 80-100%, and fast charging at a public charging station is more expensive than charging at home.

So, you get to your destination and you have 100 miles of range left. You'll want to charge to 220ish miles of range (enough to get home, plus a little bit of a reserve), and then leave. So, you'll be charging from about 25% to 55% of your battery. I just looked up a charging curve for the Silverado and it looks like that would take you about 13 minutes, so it's not nearly as inconvenient as you might think. Personally, I have a couple hundred mile commute that I can only complete without charging under relatively ideal conditions, but all I do is stop at a charger along my way halfway back long enough to visit the facilities and grab a drink, and that's more than enough to complete the trip.

Fueling when you're empty and filling it up are gas-vehicle things. Stopping to fuel is something you do much more often with a gas vehicle than an EV. The overall amount of time spent fueling a gas vehicle is generally much higher than an EV, especially the "actively fueling" part that you have to be there for. It's amazingly hard to wrap your head around until you've had an EV, because we've all spent our whole lives gassing up cars and we're used to it. Now that I've been driving EVs for so long, I find it incredibly aggravating to have to visit a gas station if I'm driving my wife's car! :rofl:
 
about 13 minutes
Only if you avoid the Tesla chargers. The real Gen 4 chargers are faster but all their older stuff does poorly on the Silverado/Denali which only charges optimally on 800v chargers. When I travel I prioritize faster (350kW) chargers over everything else. And since everyone else seems to love Tesla chargers it works out well.

Most commercial L2 stations for the GM Pickups also top out about 18 miles/hour which comes from having a giant battery and about 2.0-2.2 kWh/mi. They will accept a 19.2kW L2 charger but those are very rare in public.
 
A 6 y/o Tundra isn’t known for great mileage, but it should be reliable, treated well.

One about never comes out ahead buying a high $$ EV, ‘mostly’ because of fuel prices. A middle ground is a mix of vehicles, that truck only gets driven when necessary. My 2017 Silverado only gets driven when I need it, and towing. I have 2 econo-boxes of various vintage, mid to almost 40 mpg.

Then the motorcycle at 50+ mpg. I’m thinking we are near the peak with fuel prices, something’s gotta give, unsustainable.
 
Stopping to fuel is something you do much more often with a gas vehicle than an EV. The overall amount of time spent fueling a gas vehicle is generally much higher than an EV, especially the "actively fueling" part that you have to be there for. It's amazingly hard to wrap your head around until you've had an EV, because we've all spent our whole lives gassing up cars and we're used to it. Now that I've been driving EVs for so long, I find it incredibly aggravating to have to visit a gas station if I'm driving my wife's car! :rofl:

I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping that... considering that I can't remember the last time I stopped for gas during a trip, or just before a trip, or just after a trip. Maybe it's because my hybrid has a 450+ mile range with a full tank (usually more). A couple of days ago I was literally thinking about EV charging vs filling the gas tank. I put gas in my hybrid about twice a month whereas with an EV it would be plugged in at home every day. (I'm still thinking about a mustang mach-e)
 
I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping that... considering that I can't remember the last time I stopped for gas during a trip, or just before a trip, or just after a trip. Maybe it's because my hybrid has a 450+ mile range with a full tank (usually more).
That definitely helps. I had a plug-in hybrid that I once managed to not put gas in for four months, even though I probably put on 6-7,000 miles in that time frame.

A couple of days ago I was literally thinking about EV charging vs filling the gas tank. I put gas in my hybrid about twice a month whereas with an EV it would be plugged in at home every day. (I'm still thinking about a mustang mach-e)
Yes, but when it's charging at home, you're not doing anything different than you'd normally be doing at home. You park it, plug it in, and go about your life. As a result, you stop at a "fueling" station far less often when you're out and about. Not a one of us has a refinery in our garage.
 
Not a one of us has a refinery in our garage.
A few have or had one of these, though.
 
I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping that... .... I put gas in my hybrid about twice a month whereas with an EV it would be plugged in at home every day. (I'm still thinking about a mustang mach-e)
You won't understand that until you've lived with an EV for a while. I didn't.

I've owned EVs for five years now. Over that five years, I've needed to to to the EV "gas station" exactly twice. It's one of the biggest conveniences of EV ownership. You never think about how much "fuel" you have left for your daily driving.
 
Always keep in mind that when you charge an EV, you only have to charge it enough to get to where you are charging next. If your trip is 400 miles round trip, and your EV gets 350 miles of range, you'll probably only need to charge for 10 min or so at a fast charger. There is a website/app called "A Better Route Planner". Think of it like Foreflight for EV trip planning. If you are seriously considering an EV, go on there and plug in some of your normal trips. You might be surprised at how little you'll have to charge, or even at all.

Regarding the Ford Fathom vs the Slate, the Fathom will come with a lot more standard features than the Slate. I doubt there will be a lot of Slate buyers that will only buy the bone stock model. When they are equally equipped, they will probably end up costing the same. A big advantage to Ford is that dealers are a lot more widespread, so if you have to take it in for warranty work, you won't have to drive for hours unless you're close to a Slate dealer.

I've been very happy with my Mustang Mach E. Ford did a good job with it, and I have a feeling the Fathom will be a very solid product. I'm hoping they come out with a higher end SUV before my MME lease runs out.
 
Here in the West I don't charge to get to my next charger but the one after that. I have to assume the one random Tesla charger at the grocery store in the middle of nowhere on US-395 is probably dead and I'll need to continue or divert to a place with an actual working charger. This is also why I have a truck with 450 mile range.
 
I like the concept of the Slate, I'll have to drive one to see if I like it. There's no EV that can really meet our towing needs but for a daily driver/grocery getter it might work nicely.

All that said, the gas price situation is probably temporary. It might be a good time to watch the used market for good deals on vehicles that don't get good gas mileage. Might even to be able to resell and make a profit when oil prices crash again. If you want an EV anyway, by all means get one but I wouldn't make a purely economic decision based on today's fuel prices.
 
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