[NA] Thinking about an e-Pickup

How much trouble is it to add an EV charger into a garage? How far does a garage charging cable reach? I'm trying to mentally picture where I would add one, if I ever added one.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yes, but when it's charging at home, you're not doing anything different than you'd normally be doing at home. You park it, plug it in, and go about your life. As a result, you stop at a "fueling" station far less often when you're out and about. Not a one of us has a refinery in our garage.
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But it is different. Plug it in, unplug it are two things I don't do with my hybrid (it's not a plug-in hybrid). Nor do I worry about preconditioning the battery.

it seems that it's a trade-off between the 10 minutes to put fuel in every two weeks or so versus the tiny amount of time to plug it in and unplug it every day. btw - I don't make special trips to gas up, usually done (if needed) when I go to the bank or grocery store... which are literally right next to the gas station I use.
 
Matthew said:
How much trouble is it to add an EV charger into a garage? How far does a garage charging cable reach? I'm trying to mentally picture where I would add one, if I ever added one.
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25 feet for the cable.
240v with as many amps as you can get. Charge amperage is 80% of breaker and wire amperage, typical max is 40-48A on a 50-60A circuit, my truck will take 80A on a 100A circuit but that's rare. There are plug connected models (14-50) but people tend to install cheap outlets or install them improperly and they get melty as a typical range outlet doesn't get used for many hours at a time at near full-power. Best to direct wire. Depending on your location a 50A or less circuit direct wired will require a GFCI due to new, stupid regulations. Outlets always require a GFCI. I have a drive-over cord cover to get from where my charger is to where the car's port is.
 
Bob Noel said:
But it is different. Plug it in, unplug it are two things I don't do with my hybrid (it's not a plug-in hybrid).
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Literally a second or two. I grab the plug off the wall and shove it into the car when I walk by on my way into the house.

Yes, it's different, but hardly in a way that matters.

Bob Noel said:
Nor do I worry about preconditioning the battery.
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Nor do I. I worried about that when I had a plug-in hybrid because I knew I was going to be using the whole battery and I wanted it to last for as many miles as possible.

In the EV, I precondition the cabin for the two minutes or less it takes to get to get to 70º. Not sure how much the battery really gets in that time, but it's fine. :dunno:

Bob Noel said:
btw - I don't make special trips to gas up, usually done (if needed) when I go to the bank or grocery store... which are literally right next to the gas station I use.
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Ah, but you do. It's not a special trip from the house to the gas station to the house, but that time you spend stopping at the gas station. Like I said, it always seemed normal when I had been doing it my whole life, but after several years of EV driving, I finally had to stop and fuel my wife's car while I was on the way somewhere and it was really aggravating to have to do so. It's interesting that we don't see it as an inconvenience until it's not "normal" any more.
 
Matthew said:
How much trouble is it to add an EV charger into a garage? How far does a garage charging cable reach? I'm trying to mentally picture where I would add one, if I ever added one.
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It depends on where your panel is in relation to your garage.

All you NEED is a 240v/30A circuit. That will charge fast enough for almost any owner. Most put in at least a 240v/50A circuit, though. You can also do a 240v/60A to get the full 48A charging speed that many connectors offer but it's overkill for most owners.

The difference is in the cost of supplies. The higher capacity circuits needs thicker wires which cost a lot more, especially if it's a long run to your electrical panel. I've seen some, with a conveniently located panel in the garage, put their connector right next to the panel which reduces their need for cable to just a few feet.

Different connectors have different length cables. Mine has a 24' cable. For convenience, I'd prefer to have the connector mounted near the corner of your car with the charge port which means less cable to deal with when you stow it. I have mine mounted between the two garage doors which is right were my charge port lines up. To get it there I paid a bit more in cable and conduit for the install, because the path from the panel entered through the back wall of the garage, but it is the most convenient in daily use.
 
In my state, Tennessee, there's an additional annual tax on hybrids and full EV's. Is that common elsewhere?
 
FORANE said:
In my state, Tennessee, there's an additional annual tax on hybrids and full EV's. Is that common elsewhere?
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Yep, very common. And increasingly so. Turns out you still have to build roads even if you aren't collecting tax money for gas to do so. :-)

Between $50 and $200 seems to be the going rate. Currently $200 here in Texas.
 
My garage is on the opposite corner of the house from the panel. My electric range is on the opposite side of the garage wall. That might make an easier run for a new circuit. But the outlet would be in a place where we’d have to step over it every time it’s in use.
 
during my readings on evehicles I asked if an extension cord was possible.
the answer was in most cases, no.
And that some charging cables are liquid cooled - I wonder how common that is and what that looks like (I guess I can look that up too...but it sounded a bit wild)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
during my readings on evehicles I asked if an extension cord was possible.
the answer was in most cases, no.
And that some charging cables are liquid cooled - I wonder how common that is and what that looks like (I guess I can look that up too...but it sounded a bit wild)
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Extension cords are sometimes OK if you're doing "Level 1" extremely-slow charging, and you buy a cord that is as short as possible for your needs but has thicker gauge wire. L1 is 120V and will take the maximum amperage allowed for the outlet (generally 12A). Longer cords will allow the voltage to drop (which slows things down) and thinner gauge wire will increase resistance and energy loss due to heat. Since lots of people leave the portion of the cord that isn't needed all wrapped up, this heat can build and become a fire hazard.

If you know all of these things, you can do OK with an extension cord... But it's not a good idea for regular use.

Most people are going to want L2 charging, and 240V extension cords are much harder to come by. They also suffer from the same issues as extension cords on L1, but more so since you're generally putting not just higher voltage but also higher amperage through them.

Also - To my knowledge, there are NOT any liquid cooled cables on home chargers, only on public L3 fast chargers.
 
Larry in TN said:
You can also do a 240v/60A to get the full 48A charging speed that many connectors offer but it's overkill for most owners.
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That's why I have an 80A charger.
Get home at 20% at 8PM, need to leave the next day at 100% for some reason. 48A needs 16 hours. 80A needs under 10 hours.
The Internet "wisdom" that you only need to charge as much as you drive only works when you have a backup car for when unexpected travel happens. On the plus side, on a 120V 15A circuit my truck only takes 5 days to charge from 20 to 100%. Really I only usually to the 80% that gets me far enough from the earthquake that the power should be back on. Or I toss the generator in the back of the truck.
Let'sgoflying! said:
And that some charging cables are liquid cooled - I wonder how common that is and what that looks like (I guess I can look that up too...but it sounded a bit wild)
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Common on the high speed DC chargers. Compromise between the weight/cost of the copper needed to push 500 Amps and the weight of the cooling to use less wire.
 
Matthew said:
My garage is on the opposite corner of the house from the panel. My electric range is on the opposite side of the garage wall. That might make an easier run for a new circuit. But the outlet would be in a place where we’d have to step over it every time it’s in use.
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Is your dryer electric? If so, where is it?

You could get plug in a load balancer into that and run it to your EV charger. Handy for when your panel is full.
 
asicer said:
Is your dryer electric? If so, where is it?

You could get plug in a load balancer into that and run it to your EV charger. Handy for when your panel is full.
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The dryer is on the n/w corner of the house, the garage is on the n/e corner and the panel is on the s/w corner.

I know, everything is possible with the relentless application of money.
 
Groundpounder said:
I doubt there will be a lot of Slate buyers that will only buy the bone stock model.
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Technically, *every* Slate buyer will only buy the bone stock model. Everything beyond that is an accessory add-on.
Groundpounder said:
A big advantage to Ford is that dealers are a lot more widespread, so if you have to take it in for warranty work, you won't have to drive for hours unless you're close to a Slate dealer.
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Slate is saying that you could take it to a 3rd party shop for warranty work. Or even DIY.
 
172andyou said:
Yep, very common. And increasingly so. Turns out you still have to build roads even if you aren't collecting tax money for gas to do so. :-)

Between $50 and $200 seems to be the going rate. Currently $200 here in Texas.
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I believe in Tennessee a hybrid is $100 and full EV's are $200 annually. So from a purely monetary standpoint it's more costly for low usage vehicles and less expensive for high use vehicles relative to internal combustion engine vehicles.
Some people, like me, have one or more spare vehicles that see very low mileage annually.
 
Oregon is moving to screwing people both ways.
EVs pay $150 more every 2 years than 40+ MPG cars($250 more than 0-19 MPG cars)
Allegedly in 2027 they're replacing that $250/2 year surcharge with either consent to tracking your mileage at $0.023/mile or a flat $340/year additional fee.
We'll be California soon.
 
Matthew said:
My garage is on the opposite corner of the house from the panel. My electric range is on the opposite side of the garage wall. That might make an easier run for a new circuit. But the outlet would be in a place where we’d have to step over it every time it’s in use.
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You'll pay more for the wires and labor for the install but, I think, it's worth it to do it right the first time. It would be worth it to think about how much charge you'll need in a day(/night) as you'd save some money on a lower-amperage setup if that would meet your needs. The larger trucks, with large batteries, would be one reason why you'd want higher amperage. For a car, or smaller truck (like the Slate), you likely wouldn't need it.

Let'sgoflying! said:
during my readings on evehicles I asked if an extension cord was possible.
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There are some cords built for this but they're usually for the cord that connects to the car. I'm not sure how they work.

chartbundle said:
That's why I have an 80A charger.
48A needs 16 hours. 80A needs under 10 hours.
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Your truck has a big battery. Much larger than the Slate or most other EVs. You definitely benefit from the high-amperage charger.

The Internet "wisdom" that you only need to charge as much as you drive only works when you have a backup car for when unexpected travel happens.
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Not really. You just stop at a fast charger a little bit early on your trip. It's not like gasoline cars sit in the garage with the tank full most of the time.
 
chartbundle said:
That's why I have an 80A charger.
Get home at 20% at 8PM, need to leave the next day at 100% for some reason. 48A needs 16 hours. 80A needs under 10 hours.
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Yeow! That really brings it home how much more juice you use. Mine can theoretically go from zero to full in under 7 hours at 32A; doing it from single digits to full a few times tells me that's pretty much the right number.

chartbundle said:
The Internet "wisdom" that you only need to charge as much as you drive only works when you have a backup car for when unexpected travel happens.
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Definitely need to plan for unexpected travel, but that does include how far away the unexpected travel might take you.

FWIW, my parents have now had a Tesla Model Y for about 3 years and they're still charging on a plain old 15A 120V outlet. They also only charge to 80% unless they're leaving on a long road trip.
 
asicer said:
Technically, *every* Slate buyer will only buy the bone stock model. Everything beyond that is an accessory add-on.

Slate is saying that you could take it to a 3rd party shop for warranty work. Or even DIY.
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Sure, tomato/tomato. And despite what the internet likes to say, I really doubt there are going to be a lot of buyers that don't add things on to their slate.

Find a 3rd party shop that will work on an EV. Hell, I wanted a trailer hitch put on my MME, and I got multiple shops that said they don't work on EV's. I was also told by one shop that EV's can't tow.

I hope Slate succeeds, but I think it might be a few tough years if you are an early adopter.
 
Groundpounder said:
I hope Slate succeeds, but I think it might be a few tough years if you are an early adopter.
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I have no idea how Slate will do.

I remember a time when there were a lot of small, inexpensive, pickup trucks on the road back in the 1970s, 80s, etc. If that market is still there, they might do very well.
 
My 5x8 utility trailer is the best $80,000* I’ve never spent. Easier to load than a pickup, and stores neatly under the wing in my hangar when not needed.

*$550 in 2014 from Lowe’s.
 
Groundpounder said:
Find a 3rd party shop that will work on an EV. Hell, I wanted a trailer hitch put on my MME, and I got multiple shops that said they don't work on EV's. I was also told by one shop that EV's can't tow.
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There are more than you might think. I'm sure there are plenty of shops that have been around for a long time that simply don't have any institutional knowledge of EVs nor any particular feeling that they need to gain that knowledge, but there are also some newer shops that only work on EVs as well as some that work on whatever because they've decided that there's enough business to justify training some folks.

That's not just coming from Teslas out of warranty, it's also coming from the huge number of Toyota hybrids (not just the Prius, nearly everything in their lineup is available as a hybrid) as well as the traditional OEMs all at least starting to get into the EV market a few years ago - In many cases, the support from those OEM dealers was terrible when it came to EVs, so now that EVs are starting to be out of warranty there's a bigger market for third-party shops to work on them.

That said, there are certainly plenty of places where such a thing is not conveniently available.
 
bbchien said:
Telo Truck: https://www.telotrucks.com/
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JOhnH said:
Interesting. Ugly but interesting. I wonder what the price will be.
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Very interesting indeed. Much more "how can we cram as much utility as possible into a smaller truck" vs "Hey look at me". It's definitely a ... unique ... look. I hope they make it, looks like a potentially useful vehicle. If nothing else, I could fit one in my garage and still be able to tow things and it'd be more efficient than the giant Chevy and Ford trucks.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Very interesting indeed. Much more "how can we cram as much utility as possible into a smaller truck" vs "Hey look at me". It's definitely a ... unique ... look. I hope they make it, looks like a potentially useful vehicle. If nothing else, I could fit one in my garage and still be able to tow things and it'd be more efficient than the giant Chevy and Ford trucks.
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Looks a lot like a Japanese Kei truck, which has been around for forever and a half, except electrified.
 
whoa, full “screech!” from OP here.
I had considered factors which might reduce range on my theoretical evehicle purchase such as A/C, heater, headwinds but today I asked myself how did these manufacturers arrive at the range specs ie 400mi?
Specifically at what mph did they measure it?
I figured 55mph but apparently that is too high; it’s a high 40’s mph with some city driving thrown in.
So, (like airplanes) the numbers have some happy fantasy built into them.
I checked around to see what my mission speeds (85mph; more if trying to get out of someone’s way) would do to range and some of the heavier, high-frontal surface vehicles get a 35% reduction in range, just from pushing all that air around.
(Fd = 0.5 * rho * v^2 * cd * A)
No way I’d make it with current vehicles, going to enjoy the 15mpg Tundra a few more years.
 
Larry in TN said:
All you NEED is a 240v/30A circuit. That will charge fast enough for almost any owner…
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I second that.

I think I’ve posted elsewhere that I was lucky to have 240v/30a feeding my hangar door in a convenient spot, and piggy-backed off of that.

51898276329_27cc0f31d9_z.jpg


We just need to be careful not to raise or lower the hangar door while charging. Anyway, the 20+ miles of range per hour is always enough to replenish whatever charge we used during the day in no more than 3 or 4 hours overnight.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
whoa, full “screech!” from OP here.
I had considered factors which might reduce range on my theoretical evehicle purchase such as A/C, heater, headwinds but today I asked myself how did these manufacturers arrive at the range specs ie 400mi?
Specifically at what mph did they measure it?
I figured 55mph but apparently that is too high; it’s a high 40’s mph with some city driving thrown in.
So, (like airplanes) the numbers have some happy fantasy built into them.
I checked around to see what my mission speeds (85mph; more if trying to get out of someone’s way) would do to range and some of the heavier, high-frontal surface vehicles get a 35% reduction in range, just from pushing all that air around.
(Fd = 0.5 * rho * v^2 * cd * A)
No way I’d make it with current vehicles, going to enjoy the 15mpg Tundra a few more years.
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Dave, the aforementioned ABRP can take all that into account. I have the paid version, I would be more than happy to run some "flight plans" for you if you are comfortable sharing approximate addresses with me. You can run all kinds of hypotheticals like time of year and speed above/below posted speed limits. Feel free to PM me.
 
Groundpounder said:
Dave, the aforementioned ABRP can take all that into account. I have the paid version, I would be more than happy to run some "flight plans" for you if you are comfortable sharing approximate addresses with me. You can run all kinds of hypotheticals like time of year and speed above/below posted speed limits. Feel free to PM me.
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such a generous offer, thank you
I’ll work on getting details to you.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
whoa, full “screech!” from OP here.
I had considered factors which might reduce range on my theoretical evehicle purchase such as A/C, heater, headwinds but today I asked myself how did these manufacturers arrive at the range specs ie 400mi?
Specifically at what mph did they measure it?
I figured 55mph but apparently that is too high; it’s a high 40’s mph with some city driving thrown in.
So, (like airplanes) the numbers have some happy fantasy built into them.
I checked around to see what my mission speeds (85mph; more if trying to get out of someone’s way) would do to range and some of the heavier, high-frontal surface vehicles get a 35% reduction in range, just from pushing all that air around.
(Fd = 0.5 * rho * v^2 * cd * A)
No way I’d make it with current vehicles, going to enjoy the 15mpg Tundra a few more years.
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Keep in mind that with a pickup you’ve got a place to carry a generator…probably get you back over that 400 mile mark. :biggrin:
 
a couple of “I read that….” findings on all EVs;
-tire expenses go way up. special tires, if Tesla, dealer has to do computer adjustments. Special rubber. They may only last 15K! They are not cheap.

Insurance, esp Tesla is quite high
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
a couple of “I read that….” findings on all EVs;
-tire expenses go way up. special tires, if Tesla, dealer has to do computer adjustments. Special rubber. They may only last 15K! They are not cheap.

Insurance, esp Tesla is quite high
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My insurance went down slightly on about 2x the value from the Diesel Colorado to the Silverado EV.
My tire cost, well, with 24 inch wheels I don't want to think about that, 24k miles so far though.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
a couple of “I read that….” findings on all EVs;
-tire expenses go way up. special tires, if Tesla, dealer has to do computer adjustments. Special rubber. They may only last 15K! They are not cheap.
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Don’t know if you posted that to highlight “FUD”, but…

1) My Tesla Model 3 has gotten in the area of 40k miles from the first 2 sets of Michelin Primacy EV tires.

2) “Special rubber” optional. I went with non-EV tires for my most recent set - Michelin CrossClimate 2’s. About $750 all in after a tread wear adjustment for my prior set. Some hit to efficiency/range, but at 30k miles they seem to be wearing quite well. 60k tread wear warranty as opposed to 40k for the Primacy’s.

3) No special “computer adjustments”. I use Discount Tire. Wheel/tire size changes can modified in the software by the owner.
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
great info - thanks for debunking.
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Allow me to stipulate...

A performance model with performance tires driven aggressively might get as little as 15,000 miles on a more expensive set of tires. But, of course, such tire wear and expense are not exclusive to EV performance models.
 
Fuel prices should come down after these wars. I would hang onto your Tundra which probably has the much desired V8 with excellent resale value.

Last year I bought a new loaded(black edition) Honda Ridgeline for $45K OTD with taxes. It rides like a luxury SUV, fits sheets of plywood in the bed and gets 28MPG (@68mph) on the highway. It has the most US content of any pickup sold in the US. No turbo or CVT. Very happy with purchase.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
a couple of “I read that….” findings on all EVs;
-tire expenses go way up. special tires, if Tesla, dealer has to do computer adjustments. Special rubber. They may only last 15K! They are not cheap.
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If you drive a performance model aggressively, yes, you'll spend a lot more on tires. If you drive the way you normally would and don't max out that fun acceleration every time, you'll be fine on tires. My factory tires lasted nearly 70K, I'm at 110K now and still on my second set.

Let'sgoflying! said:
Insurance, esp Tesla is quite high
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My insurance went down slightly when I got mine. :dunno:
 
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