Meowing on Guard- can it be stopped?

Gary Ward said:
Is it bad that I don’t listen to the guard?
I was not trained to listen when I learned to fly.
You’re right, the few times I have listened I have heard it.
I usually listen to 2 airports and sometimes 3 but never 121.5.
Should I Be?
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Only if you plan on getting intercepted. That is apparently the intention of the so-called requirement.
 
Does the FAA or FCC have any right or mechanism to review black boxes for non-incident reasons? Like mentioned above, finding one a year that way would be trivial and probably put a stop to it just taking away the feeling that you can't get caught.
 
I'll betcha AI could do it. Analyze EM signature patterns that we don't even know exist. But that tech is probably only at nat sec level right now.
 
Salty said:
I've been contacted on 121.5 more than once when the ATC I was talking too lost contact with me on their frequency. It's not a bad idea in any case.
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Fair point. But the NOTAM was issued to reduce intercepts. So it's not really "safety", eg we're not a big network of orbiting rescue stations.
 
Brad Z said:
Yeah, that's not enforceable.
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By not enforceable, do you mean because unless someone from the FSDO is in the plane, they'd never know if you did it or not? Very true, but what about all the people that do it maybe because it is required, or maybe just monitor 121.5 because it makes a lot of sense.

And should I take it that you don't think it's a problem for those acting like 6 year old's while flying and "meowing" all they want? (I didn't scroll back to find your other comments, so I really don't know your position on this.) Personally I think having to even discuss this is a total waste of time, but then here we are. A couple of people that fly for the airlines have told me a lot of Capt's have started cracking down and telling young right seaters if they do it they'll be reported to the Chief Pilot and never fly with them again. And I have to admit I don't hear it *as* much as before. So BRAVO to those Capt's.
 
Iflydogs said:
In the United States, the FAA requires that all aircraft, if capable, maintain a listening watch on the VHF emergency frequency 121.5 MHz (also known as "guard") while operating within the National Airspace System. This is to assist in identifying potential emergency transmissions and to be able to respond to or relay distress calls. Air traffic control facilities are also required to monitor 121.5 MHz and must conduct two-way, ground-to-air checks at least weekly to ensure effective coverage.
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It's only a citation if you cite HOW the FAA requires it. In this case, others provided a 21 year old NOTAM, which is weak sauce IMO.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Fair point. But the NOTAM was issued to reduce intercepts. So it's not really "safety", eg we're not a big network of orbiting rescue stations.
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Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition - I mean to be intercepted. Listening the 121.5 could avoid the interception in the first place.....doesn't that improve safety?
 
M20K said:
And should I take it that you don't think it's a problem for those acting like 6 year old's while flying and "meowing" all they want?
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He's the OP that raised the issue. But congrats for vaulting straight to indignation mode.
 
Ed Haywood said:
He's the OP that raised the issue. But congrats for vaulting straight to indignation mode.
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So what's wrong with what I said? Did I say *HE* was acting like a 6 year old? Read it again, I said "...for those acting like 6 year old's..." And yes I did totally miss he was the OP, but then there's the fact you apparently totally missed that I actually said I didn't know his position, so again showing I was not dumping on him.

But as for what I said about those that do meow, I'll stick with my comment. Have you ever been around a group of 6 year old when they get stuck on a really dumb word or action that *they* think is a joke that no one else does? And for those that meow, ask around, and not the others that also do it, and see what kind of reaction you get. Probably along the lines of "You do what??? And why do you think it's funny? And did you just tell me this is the Emergency frequency?" :D
 
Ed Haywood said:
Fair point. But the NOTAM was issued to reduce intercepts. So it's not really "safety", eg we're not a big network of orbiting rescue stations.
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Two years ago, I picked up a distress call on 121.5 and relayed it to the approach controller providing me services. A passing airliner may have heard me (or also picked up the same transmission) and took over relay duties since he was much higher than me.
 
Salty said:
I've been contacted on 121.5 more than once when the ATC I was talking too lost contact with me on their frequency. It's not a bad idea in any case.
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Same. There's some dead spots in center-land over north central Arkansas, and that's how they've contacted me when they've forgotten to switch me in time.
 
mark.staggs said:
Same. There's some dead spots in center-land over north central Arkansas, and that's how they've contacted me when they've forgotten to switch me in time.
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Detroit Approach ALWAYS forgets me when I'm eastbound. Usually end up with ZOB calling me on 121.5 just in time for them to tell me to contact them and when I do immediate hand off to CLE.
 
I don't hear a whole lot of meowing around Chicago, but I wonder if that is because like others have said, Chicago Approach is on guard a lot looking for airliners and possibly meowers don't want to be a hinderance.
 
Brad Z said:
it could cause fewer folks to monitor guard and thus limit assistance in an actual emergency.
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:yeahthat: I tuned out of 121.5 during a flight recently because the meow traffic was too distracting and asinine.

Brad Z said:
Could this be done using a scattering of inexpensive raspberry Pi computers connected to a SDR (software designed radio) receiver? Or would it take something more technically capable? I'm just a pilot, not a tech experience , so I'm not really sure.
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Probably doable now with something like krakenrf. It won't be long before stuff like that trickles down to pi-class hardware, if it hasn't already. Maybe doable with MLAT now, I'd have to ask my RF homies. Probably not worth the effort to catch a bunch of clowns.

Presumably ATC already has 121.5 receivers everywhere; could they be leveraged?

GeorgeC,
who just does eyes
 
Ed Haywood said:
I'll betcha AI could do it. Analyze EM signature patterns that we don't even know exist. But that tech is probably only at nat sec level right now.
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Did you read my book? That is actually a central plot point!
 
Iflydogs said:
Are we not required to do this since 9/11? That is the only way I knew this was a thing, we are required now to monitor 121.5 if the radio is not used for anything else; it is not just a good idea.
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Ed Haywood said:
News to me. Source?
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FDC 4/4386 SPECIAL NOTICE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM INTERCEPT PROCEDURES.

AVIATORS SHALL REVIEW THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION MANUAL (AIM) FOR INTERCEPTION PROCEDURES, CHAPTER 5, SECTION 6, PARAGRAPH 5-6-2.

ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0.

Yes, it's completely bogus that they put this in a NOTAM rather than putting in the FAR, both because it means many people will never find it (thus limiting its effectiveness) and because it means they did not have to follow the standard federal rulemaking process with an NPRM and all of that.

Larry in TN said:
Then there are the multiple "You're on Guard!" calls when someone is using Guard during an actual emergency. I've heard that a couple of times.
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The guard police are as bad as the meowers. I once heard a call on guard that sounded like a mistake at first - And the pilot probably should have said "mayday" and/or "emergency" right away in his first call - But after a good solid minute of "GUAAAAAARRRRRRRRD!" the guy came back on and said "WE ARE ON FIRE, DECLARING AN EMERGENCY!"

I'll never say something after the first call on guard. Usually if someone doesn't get a response they'll look at their radios and realize what they did. If they make a second call and there's no guard police to tell them how wrong they are, a polite "Aircraft <description based on what they said>, you're on guard" is all that's needed. No need to be a jerk.

Salty said:
I've been contacted on 121.5 more than once when the ATC I was talking too lost contact with me on their frequency. It's not a bad idea in any case.
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mark.staggs said:
Same. There's some dead spots in center-land over north central Arkansas, and that's how they've contacted me when they've forgotten to switch me in time.
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Likewise. I tell you what, getting that call right away on guard sure beats what happened to another pilot I know - ATC couldn't get him on guard so they somehow found the Director of Operations' cell phone number through Google and called him; then he called the plane on the satphone.

One more excellent reason to monitor guard: If there's a presidential TFR, you will likely be warned on guard - "Aircraft 35 miles west of (president's location), heading 100, groundspeed 124, altitude 3500, you are approaching restricted airspace, turn away now and contact XXX on yyy.yy for further information." Might save you from spending the next 30-90 days on the ground.

StraightnLevel said:
Why is 121.5 called "guard"?
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Because "GUAAAAAARRRRRRRRRD" sounds cooler than "ONE TWENTY ONE FIIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVVVVVE!" ;)
 
I think this is quite an interesting idea. I think you'd need a GPS antenna to get very accurate timing information. I don't really know if cheap software defined radio receivers have sufficient bandwidth for the job - light travels takes about 1 millionth of a second to travel 1000ft.

It also seems to me it might be quite difficult to autocorrelate the samples you get from different stations, given all the noise etc. It would be an interesting project.

I'm taking it for granted you could train an ML model to quickly identify meowing.
 
Brad Z said:
VHF is good for what, 150nm, so perhaps there’s a greater density of idiots in the air out my way? Depending on the time of day, I’ll here guard mischief multiple times a flight.

(It’s not up for discussion that there are more idiots on the ground, in traffic, and in the halls of Congress, etc. around these parts).
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Maybe it’s regional. I just flew from Sarasota, FL to Quincy IL… around 7 hrs cross country today. Monitored guard the whole flight. Only heard one meow. Several inadvertent transmissions, one big GUUUUUAAAAAAARRRDDDDD pileup, and the one thing that almost made me mute the frequency- several solid minutes of a stuck mic and someone’s in-cockpit conversation.
 
Well, regardless whether you think you need to comply with NOTAMS or not, listening to guard is a kind of “get out of jail free card.” I fly around the SFRA around DC and often as not, the Air Force will announce “ target heading north of Warrenton at 2000’, you are about to enter a restricted zone; turn east or west to avoid the area.”
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The guard police are as bad as the meowers. I once heard a call on guard that sounded like a mistake at first - And the pilot probably should have said "mayday" and/or "emergency" right away in his first call - But after a good solid minute of "GUAAAAAARRRRRRRRD!" the guy came back on and said "WE ARE ON FIRE, DECLARING AN EMERGENCY!"
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I was monitoring guard when a student pilot called asking if anyone was listening as he was lost. An airliner started relaying between him and ATC to find out where he was. Some idiot guard police said guard is for emergencies only. I immediately responded and said what do you think a lost student pilot is. So yes the guard police are worse than the meowers.
 
rwellner98 said:
That's wild. I spent over a decade in Mexico and never heard anything like that. Maybe it's a regional thing? I can't imagine hearing a pilot calling out his pattern in between dispatch calls for a taxi to Don Jiménez's house.
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Wild indeed. And it was hilarious; it was actually the female dispatcher calling out the cabs doing the rounds around town, to pick her up some lunch from whatever street vendor she wanted 'tamales con mole' from. The back and forth were hilarious, like bickering spouses (who knows, they probably were married lol). There I am at 16,000ft 300KCAS almost 90 degrees of bank over the Desert in a 4-ship formation trying to keep the kid from doing something stupid and pinball out of the formation onto a fiery grave, and I'm hearing this ish blasting in español while I'm trying to instruct over the intercomm. Kinda made me hungry ngl.
:biggrin:

Translating for the fellow IPs made for funny banter at the sq bar after the day was over. Making the best of our time in the salt mines. One day I'll look back and "miss it".
 
I see it as an endless battle, for those who choose to make it theirs (idagaf).
It was “With you” for while, there was “atitppa”, “Last Call” “Disregarding”, “Taking the Runway” a half dozen other radio telephony ‘infractions’.
There were probably dozens before my time.

And here’s a prediction; there will be others in coming years that we haven’t even thought of!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
And here’s a prediction; there will be others in coming years that we haven’t even thought of!
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"Nowhereville traffic ... BugSmasher N321NK pulling up gear & lift enhancing devices at 100' on departure from runway 23. ATITPPA ... No whereville traffic" :biggrin:
 
I flew tonight just around the local field and one dude goes "SEE YA!" which prompted 10 other people to shout it back.
I think the thing that annoys me the most about is the lack of originality. "This is the thing the cool kids on TikTok are doing? I too shall replicate it."
If you are going to do something dumb, do something original.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I flew tonight just around the local field and one dude goes "SEE YA!" which prompted 10 other people to shout it back.
I think the thing that annoys me the most about is the lack of originality. "This is the thing the cool kids on TikTok are doing? I too shall replicate it."
If you are going to do something dumb, do something original.
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Correct form is a slurred “seeeeeuuuuuuuhhhhh”
 
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