Know-it-alls in the pattern

brien23

brien23

Pattern Altitude
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Brien
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It’s great to have people around you who are willing to share their knowledge and advice about flying when you need it, but not so much when it’s coming from a place of arrogance. When someone does something wrong in the pattern and a Know-it -all jumps in on the radio blocking any other aircraft from talking till he is done, seems like it is getting worse now than ever. Is Civility in aviation worse today compared to 10 years ago.
 
I think it's one of the levels of learning. It comes much earlier in the hierarchy than those who exhibit it would suspect.
 
Many times they are not correct. I say this because inevitably there will be an equally righteous rebuttal/argument over the frequency. I’m not always sure who is right, but they can’t both be.
 
szwinger said:
Many times they are not correct. I say this because inevitably there will be an equally righteous rebuttal/argument over the frequency. I’m not always sure who is right, but they can’t both be.
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They can, however, both be wrong. And probably are, if they also think the CTAF is an appropriate venue for scolding and lectures.
 
brien23 said:
It’s great to have people around you who are willing to share their knowledge and advice about flying when you need it, but not so much when it’s coming from a place of arrogance. When someone does something wrong in the pattern and a Know-it -all jumps in on the radio blocking any other aircraft from talking till he is done, seems like it is getting worse now than ever. Is Civility in aviation worse today compared to 10 years ago.
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Totally. My pattern cop is the worst. Always telling me "wrong runway!" and "tHaT's a pilot DeviAtion" and "here, I have a number for your to call". Stupid tower nazis...

Edit: btw that's just one more reason I love towered airfields. None of those self deputized clowns around.
 
You have to love the pattern police,they have been known to occasionally make new rules ,usually at a busy airport with a bunch of students in the pattern. You might call that intimidation.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Totally. My pattern cop is the worst. Always telling me "wrong runway!" and "tHaT's a pilot DeviAtion" and "here, I have a number for your to call". Stupid tower nazis...

Edit: btw that's just one more reason I love towered airfields. None of those self deputized clowns around.
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True. They aren't self deputized.
 
Encountered that a couple weeks ago. I departed rwy32 for a left downwind departure. My door popped open on departure so I made a downwind call to return for landing. C310 calls (first call) with an attitude emphasizing he’s IMC (lie) on a 6 mile straight in for rwy14. I tell him I’ve got a door that’s popped open and I’ll be clear of the runway by the time he gets here. On my call to final, he reports short final (another lie). On my roll out, he calls 1 mile final (accurate). By the time he passed threshold, I had already cleared and was almost back at the approach end run up area. Too many pilots these days whining about BS that has no safety bearing whatsoever.
 
A couple of days ago, I had a CFI tell me I should fly a teardrop when I announced I was flying over mid-field for right downwind. I laughed and said he must be an amazing instructor... he can fly his plane and mine at the same time. I hurt his feelings so bad he decided to leave the pattern. Poor guy.
 
On two of the privately owned fields I frequented, the local club pretty much ran the CTAF and explained to "visitors" how things were done. At the most organized there is a website with a map, pictures with captions, and a written list of SOPs.
 
The guy who runs our private field interviews everyone who asks to base there. He tells them we have one rule. Don't be a rick (with a D of course).

It is amazing how self aware people are. Deep down the pattern Nazis know it.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Totally. My pattern cop is the worst. Always telling me "wrong runway!" and "tHaT's a pilot DeviAtion" and "here, I have a number for your to call". Stupid tower nazis...

Edit: btw that's just one more reason I love towered airfields. None of those self deputized clowns around.
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Which airport?

I've never had any pattern cops after me. or at least that I'm aware of. If there have been, i never noticed.
 
I remember years ago I was approaching a non-towered field for a straight-in approach. One I had done with my CFI. Someone came up on the radio saying that straight-ins were not allowed at that airport. All I did was ask him where in the AF/D he read that. I never heard another word from that "cop". And I was watching for traffic that was already in the pattern (there wasn't). BTW, there wasn't a prohibition written in the AF/D then or now, years later. Oh well...
 
There’s a lot of ways to fly an airplane. For example, there’s my way and then there are all those wrong ways…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Velocity173 said:
Encountered that a couple weeks ago. I departed rwy32 for a left downwind departure. My door popped open on departure so I made a downwind call to return for landing. C310 calls (first call) with an attitude emphasizing he’s IMC (lie) on a 6 mile straight in for rwy14. I tell him I’ve got a door that’s popped open and I’ll be clear of the runway by the time he gets here. On my call to final, he reports short final (another lie). On my roll out, he calls 1 mile final (accurate). By the time he passed threshold, I had already cleared and was almost back at the approach end run up area. Too many pilots these days whining about BS that has no safety bearing whatsoever.
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I've seen it where guys flying an approach are reading the GPS distances to the next waypoint and not to the runway. Nothing like calling out 5 miles from the airport when you are 5 miles from the IAF.


On that note, my .297 ride is coming up next week. I better remind myself of that!
 
Just like the internet, being able to talk trash remotely emboldens a lot of people who, if confronted face to face, would never say what they’re saying. Some of these folks need to be talked to “behind the woodshed” as one of my coaches used to say.
 
k9medic said:
I've seen it where guys flying an approach are reading the GPS distances to the next waypoint and not to the runway. Nothing like calling out 5 miles from the airport when you are 5 miles from the IAF.


On that note, my .297 ride is coming up next week. I better remind myself of that!
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What got me was he reported short final but then a minute later, he reports 1 mile final. Obviously there’s no established distance for short final but to call it where he did, was way off. He was just trying to rush me off the runway.
 
Velocity173 said:
What got me was he reported short final but then a minute later, he reports 1 mile final. Obviously there’s no established distance for short final but to call it where he did, was way off. He was just trying to rush me off the runway.
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If you knew his short final was really a long one, you should have used a fake accent to call out some slow plane like a Bonanza or Citation on a “3-mile final looking for the traffic on short final to follow.”
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I admit to having used phrases like, “[airport] is left traffic” when someone reports a right downwind or base. But long discussions are for the ground.
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I don't see a problem with that. It is a clear safety issue if other aircraft are flying left pattern. Plus, while pattern entry is a judgement and preference issue, pattern direction is charted and mandatory.

If you wanted to nice but snarky, you could say "be advised all the rest of us are left pattern like the AFD says."
 
Ed Haywood said:
pattern direction is charted and mandatory.
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The charted pattern direction is not mandatory. It can be wrong.

14 CFR 91.126 (and incorporated by reference into 91.127)

Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right
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I've twice found airports where the charting did not agree with the "approved light signals or visual marking". First one I ignored. Years later, I got the second one fixed by bringing it to the attention of the airport manager. He had the references to a right pattern removed from the charting and A/FD. (I presume that was cheaper to do than installing a segmented circle)
 
We sarcastically refer to those sorts of people as "the airport authority." I find the worst are certain DPEs who hang out at the airport when they're not doing checkrides.
I had one try to tell me that a flight review (assuming that the pilot is rated in both) in a helicopter covers currency in an airplane, but one in an airplane is not acceptable for a helicopter.
 
flyingron said:
We sarcastically refer to those sorts of people as "the airport authority." I find the worst are certain DPEs who hang out at the airport when they're not doing checkrides.
I had one try to tell me that a flight review (assuming that the pilot is rated in both) in a helicopter covers currency in an airplane, but one in an airplane is not acceptable for a helicopter.
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Yeah, but doesn't a flight review in a C-150 cover a flight review for both airplane and weight shift . . . and if you cut the engine . . . glider? :)
 
Ed Haywood said:
If you wanted to nice but snarky, you could say "be advised all the rest of us are left pattern like the AFD says."
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Too many words for a busy traffic pattern and I don't think a safety call should be snarky. Besides, I've heard people simply make a pattern direction mistake and turn out to reestablished (then there was this guy....).

I save snarky for saying "it's bumper-to-bumper on US1" in response to ATITPA and even then when the freq is not too busy.
 
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