Instrument Checkride Questions?

rickdrey

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rickdrey
My instrument checkride is in a few days. Trying to plan and practice ahead of time for anything that the DPE could throw at me

What did you checkride look like? Which approaches did you fly, what failures or scenarios did he present you with, and were there any gotchas that your DPE gave you that you would recommend studying for ahead of time?

Thanks in advance!
 
Consider asking your DPE what approaches he plans to have you do. I don't remember exactly what they were but my DPE gave me the approaches ahead of time, I believe it was a LOC and 2 RNAV (1 circling). Failures/scenarios depend a bit on your equipment too. I had dual G5s and for partial panel he "failed" both by turning the screens all the way down. No gotchas that I can recall. But all DPEs are different. It's not exactly an "easy" checkride as there is a ton of information you need to know for the rating but if you put in the work to learn it I found it to be very straight forward and the flight portion felt just like any other training flight doing practice approaches.
 
…What did you checkride look like?…!
Mine looked exactly like the ACS said it should. The IAPs flown were controlled by the equipment available in the aircraft, so there was no NDB or SDFs flown on the non-precision side although LDA & SDF were covered in the oral. There may have been something around PARs/GCAs on the oral.

As for failures, the plane provided one of it’s own failure with the AP being not passing pre-flight checks. The entire PFD was failed for partial panel work.
 
Will depend on what is available with the equipment and local services (approaches) available.
Around here it is usually an ILS, a VOR with the Arc, and either a LNAV or LPV approach. Of course you also need to demonstrate a missed approach, holding, circle to land, and an approach to landing. Of course unusual attitudes and instrument failures will be demonstrated in there somewhere also.

If the ILS is unavailable (which it has been for a good part of this past year) then another LPV will be substituted.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
The Oral portion will of course cover all the usual regs, alternates requirements, Minimum equipment, and the rest of the topics in the ACS. The thing that often surprises applicants locally (that haven't been briefed) is the examiners like to go over an arrival to an airport in Class B airspace in detail, especially covering loss of communication procedures? If you lost your radio immediately after take off could you properly fly the rest of your flight plan (using the arrival into a class B Airport) with no further communication? This is more about understanding the procedure's than what is actually the safest thing to do in that situation. But safest thing will be discussed as well.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
local guy struggled with how to depart uncontrolled field IFR in VMC & IMC in his oral... there's basically 3 types so review them. Another had some issues with flying with inop equipment to fly IFR and where to find it.... review the steps to give a definitive answer. Keep answer simple, I teach a 3 step process, but use whatever works for you, but be ready to walk through the steps for something failed such as found on preflight... like being told the pitot heat isn't working. Don't just say you'll call a mechanic... i recently worked with a guy that failed the oral because mostly this topic.... also see this on a lot of commercial rides as well. Reach out if needed.
 
Fwiw…
Study the ACS
Then review the ACS
Know the ACS
EVERYTHING you will cover, everything….is detailed in the ACS.
Seth Lake has a nice, 3 or 4 video review of the Instrument ACS, line by line, worth watching.

Have a binder with copies/originals of all your test results, documents, logbook/times, aircraft logs, AD’s, maintenance, inspections, etc all neatly arranged.
Also have a CFII signed, printed IACRA form in your binder, just in case.
Make the document portion easy and organized, it will make a favorable impression showing you prepared and ready.

I was decently acquainted with my DPE, after the exam they stated the typical applicant has never opened the ACS and it shows. When asked about topics that are clearly outlined in the ACS, applicants say things like ‘I never went over that with my instructor’. By this point we should be better than that.

My flying portion: on departure hand flew intercept and track V route, DME ARC/VOR approach, circle to a missed, to a hold.
Then using AP to a TAA RNAV to a missed.
Unusual attitudes, 3x
Partial panel RNAV approach, but due to pretty gusty winds circling to land opposite direction.

Good luck!!
 
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For the oral, Know everything on the Victor Low IFR chart. As in if there is something on the chart, you know why it's there.

I also get tripped up on lost Coms. AVE-F and MEA are mnemonics that are quite useful. You are not required to spell mnemonic at least..
 
Another had some issues with flying with inop equipment to fly IFR and where to find it.... review the steps to give a definitive answer. Keep answer simple, I teach a 3 step process, but use whatever works for you, but be ready to walk through the steps for something failed such as found on preflight... like being told the pitot heat isn't working. Don't just say you'll call a mechanic... i recently worked with a guy that failed the oral because mostly this topic.... also see this on a lot of commercial rides as well. Reach out if needed.
Those are interesting. They sound exactly like the type of failures I would expect from someone who learned required equipment mnemonics.
 
For the oral, Know everything on the Victor Low IFR chart. As in if there is something on the chart, you know why it's there.

I also get tripped up on lost Coms. AVE-F and MEA are mnemonics that are quite useful. You are not required to spell mnemonic at least..

I knew the mnemonics, but I'd never sat down with the IFR low chart and did lost comms as a scenario- and really, I didn't understand how to handle if I was being vectored at the time.

I'd say that people get VDPs wrong in terms of purpose- the DPE asked me if I had to land in the TDZ, I said no, he said yes, but he was wrong as that doesn't apply to part 91 flights. I didn't argue this, and let him have it ;)

While you are flying, don't let the DPE rush you- if you need delay vectors, take them. If you need ATC to repeat something, ask them. Write down your clearances, although you certainly aren't going to learn to do that at this point if you haven't been.

Don't forget the ACS includes some after flight things. If your usual checklist has a few items, this probably won't be an issue, but worth a reviewing the ACS to the last requirements.
 
Where is this differentiated between 91 and other parts?

91.175(c)1
The aircraft is continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers, and for operations conducted under part 121 or part 135 unless that descent rate will allow touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone of the runway of intended landing;
 
My flying buddy and I had different CFIIs and different DPEs. My CFII usually acted as ATC and I rarely filed. His CFII rarely acted as ATC so he usually filed.

At checkride time my DPE expected me to file and that’s how we flew the checkride. His DPE acted as ATC. We each got something we weren’t used to.

There will always be something unexpected to raise the stress level.
 

91.175(c)1
The aircraft is continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers, and for operations conducted under part 121 or part 135 unless that descent rate will allow touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone of the runway of intended landing;
That reg doesn’t actually require ANYONE to touch down in the TDZ, but I see your point.

I was thinking more along the lines that the ACS requires touchdown in what is generally the TDZ.
 
For the oral, Know everything on the Victor Low IFR chart. As in if there is something on the chart, you know why it's there.

I also get tripped up on lost Coms. AVE-F and MEA are mnemonics that are quite useful. You are not required to spell mnemonic at least..
One oral question that stumped me was the difference in fuel requirements between VFR and IFR. No, not the numbers but the qualitative difference. I didn't have a clue what he was digging for so I pulled out the reg and read it. For VFR the only time you are required to have VFR fuel reserves is at takeoff. After takeoff, you can use up every drop of fuel without violating the fuel reserve regulation as long as you don't land out or crash. You might be violating the careless and reckless regulation but technically not the fuel reserve regulation. For IFR flight, you must have the required fuel reserve throughout operations of the aircraft. If your flight encounters unforeseen head winds and you'll have to eat into your fuel reserve, you're supposed to alter your plan and land somewhere sooner. IFR fuel reserves are basically an emergency reserve to be used only when there is no other recourse. The second you start eating into your reserve, you are technically operating the aircraft without having the required reserve onboard.
 
One oral question that stumped me was the difference in fuel requirements between VFR and IFR. No, not the numbers but the qualitative difference. I didn't have a clue what he was digging for so I pulled out the reg and read it. For VFR the only time you are required to have VFR fuel reserves is at takeoff. After takeoff, you can use up every drop of fuel without violating the fuel reserve regulation as long as you don't land out or crash. You might be violating the careless and reckless regulation but technically not the fuel reserve regulation. For IFR flight, you must have the required fuel reserve throughout operations of the aircraft. If your flight encounters unforeseen head winds and you'll have to eat into your fuel reserve, you're supposed to alter your plan and land somewhere sooner. IFR fuel reserves are basically an emergency reserve to be used only when there is no other recourse. The second you start eating into your reserve, you are technically operating the aircraft without having the required reserve onboard.
note that the regs specify VFR or IFR Conditions.
 
My check ride was in IMC. After flying an ILS, I went missed and was vectored effectively on downwind. The DPE requested a hold on the back course. I had read about it, but never practiced it. I slowed the airplane down to give myself extra time to think but it turned out to be a non-event. It probably would be a lot easier with all the tools we have today.

I think my IFR ride was easier than the PPL.
 
FWIW, my impression from debriefing (I don't do training for the rating, except maybe part of the 3 hours before the ride) is that most of the gotchas are knowledge issues.

The in-flight portion generally involves approaches you've flown many times during training. I'm sure some DPEs come up with in-flight gotchas, but when I hear stories about instrument checkride failures, it's pilots screwing up basic tasks.
 
My DPE operated out of a specific airport so we figured that approaches there were a likely occurance so we flew them all multiple times in all of their options.

Sure enough, we were right. My ride went like this:

A large oral section going over my logs, preflight weather, and flight plans. Pretty much: prove to me that you and the aircraft are ready for today's flight.
He asked a few questions during my preflight inspection but decided that since I was nailing them, he'd stop (as opposed to some who will continue and try to play stump the chump with you).
The airport had an ODP with a climb in hold, so when I flew that, that knocked out a couple of items at once. We them flew the non precision (LOC) approach that returned to the opposite runway from where I took off.
Did a missed approach there. Was given some headings/incepts to take us away from the airport.
Had me close my eyes while he gave me some turns and stuff to manouver (very disconcerting). Open eyes, find partial panel, recover from the unusual attitude I'd put myself in. Repeat.
Go intercept the GPS approach for the airport (still partial panel). Go missed (suddenly things fixed themselves). Go reenter the ILS approach. Circle to land. Land. Shake hands, get temporary certificate.
 
Here is a situation that isn't in the ACS or any book. You are in a single engine piston cruising in hard IMC at 5,000 feet. You start to lose engine power. What are you going to do?

Yes this was the start of my instrument checkride, and outside the bounds of the ACS so to speak, but as the examiner said, if you couldn't fly instruments you wouldn't be here today. I want to know if you have what it takes to survive a real world scenario.

And yes, I survived the setup scenario and passed my checkride with flying colors.
 
Had me close my eyes while he gave me some turns and stuff to manouver (very disconcerting). Open eyes, find partial panel, recover from the unusual attitude I'd put myself in.
I love this. If I'm recalling correctly, at one time, the unusual attitude task was supposed to be partial panel to differentiate it from the private. Maybe changed about the time the instrument steep turn task went away?

I always do closed-eyes with the pilot flying themselves into an unusual attitude on IPCs. Closing the eyes is obviously artificial, but it's far closer to the reality of a distraction that takes your eyes away form the instrument too long than the manipulations of the DPE flying the airplane into one. I have it done to me that way and even though I know what I will see when I open my eyes, it's still a surprise.
 
Here is a situation that isn't in the ACS or any book. You are in a single engine piston cruising in hard IMC at 5,000 feet. You start to lose engine power. What are you going to do?
Ain't nothin' like that happening for real.
 
I love this. If I'm recalling correctly, at one time, the unusual attitude task was supposed to be partial panel to differentiate it from the private. Maybe changed about the time the instrument steep turn task went away?

I always do closed-eyes with the pilot flying themselves into an unusual attitude on IPCs. Closing the eyes is obviously artificial, but it's far closer to the reality of a distraction that takes your eyes away form the instrument too long than the manipulations of the DPE flying the airplane into one. I have it done to me that way and even though I know what I will see when I open my eyes, it's still a surprise.
My DPE told me to close my eyes, do a climbing, 30 deg left turn, and tell him when I was finished. Then I had to recover. Repeated that with a descending 30 deg right turn.

My CFII had done something similar with me. It’s the insidious way it creeps up on you that can get you in trouble.
 
My DPE told me to close my eyes, do a climbing, 30 deg left turn, and tell him when I was finished. Then I had to recover. Repeated that with a descending 30 deg right turn.

My CFII had done something similar with me. It’s the insidious way it creeps up on you that can get you in trouble.
I don't go that far for the spiral dive. Straight and level medium banked turns are the most it's ever required. And the banks are probably not needed but it helps speed things along a little bit.
 
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I don't go that far for the spiral dive. Straight and level medium banked turns are the most it's ever required. And the banks are probably not needed but it helps speed things along a little bit.
It wasn’t a 30 deg bank, it was a 30 deg heading change. All based on feel.
 
I meant the simulation is nothing like the reality.

Does it ever? The point was to think outside the box. We teach engine failures for PP, but it isn't talked about much for Instrument. Also leads to a discussion of ADM and Risk Management. It is perfectly legal to fly a single engine piston over 0/0, heck you can even do it VFR. But there is always the non-zero chance of an emergency, and how will you handle it. My personal minimums these days, recognizing my risk tolerance and proficiency, is I want 3 miles and 1000 ceiling even for IFR. I want some time when I pop out of the bases to try to hit something less hard.

On the checkride we simulated a partial power loss which led to a total power loss while under the hood. Using the GPS, I selected a nearby airport with an instrument approach. I selected the approach knowing that we were not going to fly the actual procedure, but used it to get aligned with the runway. In the meantime I ran the engine failure checklist to attempt to get the power back, and also calculated descent rate to the airport. It was going to be close, so kept the airplane clean, no gear, no flaps, best glide. When I "broke out" at 200 feet, I would have easily made the end of the runway, albeit gear up but alive. Good thought exercise, and one I can admit didn't prepare or train for.
 
Does it ever? The point was to think outside the box. We teach engine failures for PP, but it isn't talked about much for Instrument. Also leads to a discussion of ADM and Risk Management. It is perfectly legal to fly a single engine piston over 0/0, heck you can even do it VFR. But there is always the non-zero chance of an emergency, and how will you handle it. My personal minimums these days, recognizing my risk tolerance and proficiency, is I want 3 miles and 1000 ceiling even for IFR. I want some time when I pop out of the bases to try to hit something less hard.

On the checkride we simulated a partial power loss which led to a total power loss while under the hood. Using the GPS, I selected a nearby airport with an instrument approach. I selected the approach knowing that we were not going to fly the actual procedure, but used it to get aligned with the runway. In the meantime I ran the engine failure checklist to attempt to get the power back, and also calculated descent rate to the airport. It was going to be close, so kept the airplane clean, no gear, no flaps, best glide. When I "broke out" at 200 feet, I would have easily made the end of the runway, albeit gear up but alive. Good thought exercise, and one I can admit didn't prepare or train for.
I never disagreed with the point.
 
I ask myself how did the CFI in good conscience endorse the applicant is prepared for the practical test under 61.39(a)(6)(II).
 
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When students with questions like this, I ask myself how did the CFI in good conscience endorse the applicant is prepared for the practical test under 61.39(a)(6)(II).
I kind of feel the same way but much less so these days when applicant's often travel to a distant location because of DPE scheduling issues and no one is available for local gouge. Although for they are usually better off finding a FB pilot group in the DPE's area.
 
imagine traveling to someplace and getting a DPE that conjours up some non required activity with no accepted evaluation criteria?

The annoying part of instrument training for me was really all the religious instructional attention paid to forced processes without acknowledging they exist to maintain situational awareness or time shift workload, and that there could be alternate ways of doing those things that are equally valid. Or when to not bother with them because the process itself is a distraction from primary duties. These became treated as failures to be corrected. As an older student I found the entire process miserable, impractical, and pedantic.
 
imagine traveling to someplace and getting a DPE that conjours up some non required activity with no accepted evaluation criteria?

The annoying part of instrument training for me was really all the religious instructional attention paid to forced processes without acknowledging they exist to maintain situational awareness or time shift workload, and that there could be alternate ways of doing those things that are equally valid. Or when to not bother with them because the process itself is a distraction from primary duties. These became treated as failures to be corrected. As an older student I found the entire process miserable, impractical, and pedantic.
DPEs shouldn't be conjuring up non-required tasks, but that's not the same thing as setting up a task in a way that the DPE has previously seen as problematic. And that's not necessarily something evil and sneaky. You may have not been here long enough see it, but I've talked before about my list of six GPS Tasks Pilots Don't Know of How to Do. All of them are ACS tasks. None of them are some one-off event; all are pretty common. But I've seen pilots have trouble with them.

I agree completely with your other point - that there are often alternate valid techniques for accomplishing the same procedure. Especially with out modern whizz-bang boxes. But I really haven't heard any verifiable stories about failures for successfully accomplishing a task in a different way since back in the days before the FAA reminded DPEs (twice) that the 3 AIM recommended entries are optional and that the standard is remaining in protected airspace.
 
Whenever I'm asked about what to expect, I say, "it's all in the ACS." That's probably what most of my colleagues say as well.

The specific flight profile always varies. I tend to conduct practical tests in the busy airspace surround EWR, TEB, and etc. so I couldn't tell an applicant what to expect approach-wise even if I wanted to. You might get an ILS and two GPS non-precision approaches; you might get a VOR, a loc, and an LPV approach; it's always something different.

I adjust my questions for the ground portion periodically so if there is gouge to be had on Examiner Ferguson, it eventually becomes stale. I like to keep it fresh.

To give you a little useful prep nugget - I would suggest, just based on issues I've seen on countless IRA rides, to please be familiar with the avionics package in the aircraft you're presenting for the practical test. I have had issues with applicants saying "this is the first time I've flown N___ so I don't know how the autopilot works" or "I know all about how a mechanical attitude indicator works but not the G5 that recently replaced it in this airplane." Tasks II.A and II.B in FAA-S-ACS-8C are quite clear - remember, Skill elements SHALL be tested. They're not optional.

Good luck!
 
The specific flight profile always varies. I tend to conduct practical tests in the busy airspace surround EWR, TEB, and etc. so I couldn't tell an applicant what to expect approach-wise even if I wanted to. You might get an ILS and two GPS non-precision approaches; you might get a VOR, a loc, and an LPV approach; it's always something different.
It doesn't even have to be as busy as the NE corridor. On my instrument ride, the last task was an ILS into BDL, a Class C in Connecticut That meant whatever ILS was in use. That was vectors to the the FAC for the ILS RWY 6. All briefed and read to go.

I start getting vectors and then ATC advises me there is going to be a runway change. They are switching to runway 24. To park me until they make the change, I get instructions to hold at the HFD VOR. The real deal, including an EFC time. Established in the hold, I have to retrieve the new plate from the book and brief the new approach.

[Oh, "book." I guess I should mention this was 1992. BDL was actually an ARSA, all my charts were paper, and my my nav equipment consisted of two VOR receivers and an ADF.]

Anyway, the EFC time comes and goes. Crickets. I look at the DPE questioningly. He just shrugs. So I key the radio and say, "Bradley Approach, 53195 is still in the hold." Audible "Oh!" from ATC - they forgot about me.

The lesson I took from that when I became a CFII is that there ain't nothin' a CFII or DPE can conjure up "better" than what ATC does in the real world.
 
…

The lesson I took from that when I became a CFII is that there ain't nothin' a CFII or DPE can conjure up "better" than what ATC does in the real world.
That’s something I learned quickly. I burned through 3 CFIIs, they kept moving up into the 121/135 side. The IFR world is so much more than just being able to stay upright and load and follow a procedure. Getting that variety of training experience helped me get used to “expecting the unexpected”.
 
That’s something I learned quickly. I burned through 3 CFIIs, they kept moving up into the 121/135 side. The IFR world is so much more than just being able to stay upright and load and follow a procedure. Getting that variety of training experience helped me get used to “expecting the unexpected”.
One of the problems with instrument training is that is so limited and artificial. There is only one required cross country and since it needs to meet the "different types of approach" requirements, even that tends to be CFI directed (within limits). There's a saying that you are the most proficient you will ever be on the day of the checkride. Except maybe for basic hand-flying skills, but beyond that I don't think it was ever true. And it's far less true today with the complexity of modern avionics.
 
One of the problems with instrument training is that is so limited and artificial. There is only one required cross country and since it needs to meet the "different types of approach" requirements, even that tends to be CFI directed (within limits). There's a saying that you are the most proficient you will ever be on the day of the checkride. Except maybe for basic hand-flying skills, but beyond that I don't think it was ever true. And it's far less true today with the complexity of modern avionics.
The more I learned during my training, the more I found there was to know. Yeah, IR training isn’t real life since there’s very little en route training outside the XC. Normally, it’s take off, transition through a few approaches as quickly as possible, then land once. There’s little opportunity to get used to thinking ahead. I got through my check ride, but still felt like I failed. I knew there was so much more to it all, and it can’t all be taught to competency, or tested. Sure, a lot gets covered by the oral exam, but there is so much more that has to be DIY experience and you can only get that by flying.
 
The more I learned during my training, the more I found there was to know. Yeah, IR training isn’t real life since there’s very little en route training outside the XC. Normally, it’s take off, transition through a few approaches as quickly as possible, then land once. There’s little opportunity to get used to thinking ahead. I got through my check ride, but still felt like I failed. I knew there was so much more to it all, and it can’t all be taught to competency, or tested. Sure, a lot gets covered by the oral exam, but there is so much more that has to be DIY experience and you can only get that by flying.
That's absolutely right. It's not even about the oral. It's the unexpected stuff that happens,

Be aware of that, do more cross countries, hit more types of airports, ask questions, keep your head on a swivel mentally, be flexible, even watch YouTube (find people who seem to know what they are doing (and learn to recognize those who don't), and realize you might never know everything. The learning will come.
 
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