I hate airlines [rant]

[Tantalum]

Smoothly as in you hurtled through space 6 miles above the earth going 500 mph and arrived at your destination safely?

It amazes me what people complain about. If you want to walk to Canada, go ahead.

Luis CK had a great skit on that...

Granted... if I'm going to have to sit for several hours I'd still rather do it in the comfort of my own space.. alone, not squished against someone gently passing gas, taking over both arm rests, etc.

 

[jordane93]

Maybe I’m just lucky but in my 20 years of non revving between my dad’s passes and now my pass, besides weather and there not being a seat open, I think I’ve maybe gotten stuck once or twice.

 

[Ghery]

Maybe I’m just lucky but in my 20 years of non revving between my dad’s passes and now my pass, besides weather and there not being a seat open, I think I’ve maybe gotten stuck once or twice.

You are lucky, or in those 20 years you didn't ride the airlines all that often. I've had several unplanned nights in hotels near airports. And when the trip is already planned to be a long one (try Rome-Zurich-Newark-Seattle), that unplanned night in Zurich (at the airport hotel) just isn't fun. And that's just one example. Weather once, maintenance issues the rest of the time.

I ride the airlines a number of times a year, but GA just doesn't work for trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific trips. Quite often it isn't an option for domestic trips, either. I don't say I enjoy airlines (for the reasons noted by others in this thread), but they are a necessary evil.

 

[Zeldman]

Maybe I’m just lucky but in my 20 years of non revving between my dad’s passes and now my pass, besides weather and there not being a seat open, I think I’ve maybe gotten stuck once or twice.

Wow.... you have gotten lucky.!!

(so far)

 

[jordane93]

You are lucky, or in those 20 years you didn't ride the airlines all that often. I've had several unplanned nights in hotels near airports. And when the trip is already planned to be a long one (try Rome-Zurich-Newark-Seattle), that unplanned night in Zurich (at the airport hotel) just isn't fun. And that's just one example. Weather once, maintenance issues the rest of the time.

I ride the airlines a number of times a year, but GA just doesn't work for trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific trips. Quite often it isn't an option for domestic trips, either. I don't say I enjoy airlines (for the reasons noted by others in this thread), but they are a necessary evil.

I travel quite a bit and it’s all about being flexible as you know when you’re a non rev. We rarely get stuck due to weather or mx. We’ve had to change our destination numerous times due to the loads not looking good but it has been a pretty good perk at least at NWA and Delta.

 

[EdFred]

I travel quite a bit and it’s all about being flexible as you know when you’re a non rev. We rarely get stuck due to weather or mx. We’ve had to change our destination numerous times due to the loads not looking good but it has been a pretty good perk at least at NWA and Delta.

Yeah, that doesn't work for those of us that plan a vacation to a specific destination in a specific time frame. Or when we have a meeting in Olathe at 2pm on Monday. Of course you never get stuck or stranded when your destination is.....anywhere but where you currently are.

 

[jordane93]

Yeah, that doesn't work for those of us that plan a vacation to a specific destination in a specific time frame. Or when we have a meeting in Olathe at 2pm on Monday. Of course you never get stuck or stranded when your destination is.....anywhere but where you currently are.

Absolutely. I realize my experiences aren’t the norm. It is nice when you can say, “we’re not going to Paris anymore, we’re going to London!”. Still for me, the airlines have worked most of the time and got me to where I originally planned to go at the planned time.

 

[Larry in TN]

Very few people have pilots licenses and access and the means to fly GA airplanes. Their choices are airlines or driving.

 

[PPC1052]

. Maybe if the airports were relatively close and you had to do two legs on the airlines, it would be close. But if they are that close, driving might actually be quicker door-to-door.
View attachment 74997

I figure about 5 hours drive time is where it switches over to being significantly quicker to fly in my Cardinal (180hp, fixed gear). Three to four hours is pretty much break even with driving to the airport (20 minutes), pre-flight, tie down at destination, and ground transportation at destination. Obviously, there are variables that are different for each trip, but that's kind of my rule of thumb.

 

[Tantalum]

I wanna TBM 910

The ultimate private dream aircraft in my opinion. Great performance, and sexy as hell

 

[Tantalum]

Smisek just sucked

Wasn't there something shady "sort of legal" he was also doing that came public, ultimately why he was replaced?

I feel like the advent of Kayak, Orbitz, etc., also helped paint all airlines as "you know it's going to suck, so at least try and save some money while you suffer"

-which is crap, flying commercial is not great, but I'd still rather be on DL, UA, or even AA than Spirit or Frontier, for example. And for what it's worth the Delta Comfort cabin is actually quite comfortable, free beer, extra snacks.. it's not a terrible way to fly

 

[Tantalum]

deleted.. wrong thread!

 

[Sluggo63]

Flight planning: 5 minutes
Preflighting : 10 minutes
Loading Bags: 2 minutes
Fuel Stops: 0 minutes (I can go 900 miles+)
Tying down: 0 minutes (FBO parks it)
Fuel: 0 minutes (FBO fuels it, "coordination" is saying "top off the tip tanks" all the CC info is already on file)
Departure time: 0 minutes (is a phone call while driving)

Here's my every step of the way from a non - hub airport to a non - hub airport, and the trip I just did last weekend
to SDF from western Michigan.

Punch in my flight planner SDF direct, click next a few times, read the NOTAMS 9:50am
Depart Office at 10:05am
Arrive Airport 10:25am
Preflight, pack, fuel
Depart 10:44am
Arrive SDF 12:30pm
There was a delay with the rental car on arrival, but we were still to the hotel by 1pm.
So, 3ish hours from the time I left the office to the time I checked in at the hotel.

Now, let's see how the mighty and amazing airlines do for me.
Kayak shows the following flights leaving before noon:
I can depart GRR at 1045 and arrive SDF at 1332, not really that bad. However...
I have to arrive at the airport at 830 because of parking and security. Oh, and I had bowling balls so those have to get checked. But the bag is overweight so now I get to pay extra.

So I was able to come into work, get a couple hours of work in, and get to my hotel before the flight on the airlines even arrives.
Fuel + FBO overnight and fees came to the same price as an airline ticket for me. However, I had passengers, so GA is way ahead, both on time, (2 hours) and on cost of the flight (half of the airlines)

Even when I was doing something as far away as JAX I was still beating the airlines. I could fly it non-stop in the Comanche. I plan on heading to CNI here in the not too distant future. That should give the airlines the Advantage as I can get direct to ATL, however, I have to drive back from ATL to CNI, and it's only 3:20 flight time via GA to CNI.

Now, the airlines did kick GA's ass on my previous trip. But that was GRR => JNB which would be about 70 hours of flight time in a 150kt GA plane. And since I really probably only want to fly 8 hours a day, it would take 9 days to get there. The airlines had me there in 2 days.

I agree. GA is a lot of things. I’d venture to say that most people fly GA for the joy of it. But, it can also be a great tool. I routinely would fly from my home airport in South Jersey to upstate NY to visit friends. It was perfect. It beat driving and beat the airlines, both. Perfect use for it.

It’s just sometimes people try to justify GA as a replacement for the airlines, and sometimes it’s great, but sometimes it like watching my wife use a butter knife as a screwdriver.

 

[Grum.Man]

Flight planning: 5 minutes
Preflighting : 10 minutes
Loading Bags: 2 minutes
Fuel Stops: 0 minutes (I can go 900 miles+)
Tying down: 0 minutes (FBO parks it)
Fuel: 0 minutes (FBO fuels it, "coordination" is saying "top off the tip tanks" all the CC info is already on file)
Departure time: 0 minutes (is a phone call while driving)

Here's my every step of the way from a non - hub airport to a non - hub airport, and the trip I just did last weekend
to SDF from western Michigan.

Punch in my flight planner SDF direct, click next a few times, read the NOTAMS 9:50am
Depart Office at 10:05am
Arrive Airport 10:25am
Preflight, pack, fuel
Depart 10:44am
Arrive SDF 12:30pm
There was a delay with the rental car on arrival, but we were still to the hotel by 1pm.
So, 3ish hours from the time I left the office to the time I checked in at the hotel.

Now, let's see how the mighty and amazing airlines do for me.
Kayak shows the following flights leaving before noon:
I can depart GRR at 1045 and arrive SDF at 1332, not really that bad. However...
I have to arrive at the airport at 830 because of parking and security. Oh, and I had bowling balls so those have to get checked. But the bag is overweight so now I get to pay extra.

So I was able to come into work, get a couple hours of work in, and get to my hotel before the flight on the airlines even arrives.
Fuel + FBO overnight and fees came to the same price as an airline ticket for me. However, I had passengers, so GA is way ahead, both on time, (2 hours) and on cost of the flight (half of the airlines)

Even when I was doing something as far away as JAX I was still beating the airlines. I could fly it non-stop in the Comanche. I plan on heading to CNI here in the not too distant future. That should give the airlines the Advantage as I can get direct to ATL, however, I have to drive back from ATL to CNI, and it's only 3:20 flight time via GA to CNI.

Now, the airlines did kick GA's ass on my previous trip. But that was GRR => JNB which would be about 70 hours of flight time in a 150kt GA plane. And since I really probably only want to fly 8 hours a day, it would take 9 days to get there. The airlines had me there in 2 days.

I figure anywhere east of the Mississippi is faster in my plane than the airlines, maybe even a little further depending on the winds and which airports I would be flying out of if I went commercial. Of course all it takes is one delay on the airline to stretch that distance another 300+ miles. I would love to fly my own airplane for work but I would feel bad if I had to miss a trip for weather that I would have otherwise made in a commercial plane.

 

[EdFred]

I figure anywhere east of the Mississippi is faster in my plane than the airlines, maybe even a little further depending on the winds and which airports I would be flying out of if I went commercial. Of course all it takes is one delay on the airline to stretch that distance another 300+ miles. I would love to fly my own airplane for work but I would feel bad if I had to miss a trip for weather that I would have otherwise made in a commercial plane.

I'm pretty much the same. Though, that's more due to my (our) location(s). If we lived in Miami or Eastport the numbers start to favor the airlines. With me I can get a bit west of the Mississippi. An area bounded by Minot to Oklahoma City to Jacksonville, and even up to Boston. Door to door I can generally win with a couple exceptions (short layovers or direct to a destination close to the hub).

 

[SToL]

I figure anywhere east of the Mississippi is faster in my plane than the airlines, maybe even a little further depending on the winds and which airports I would be flying out of if I went commercial.

The reason for this is because of all the forest fires we have here in the west. All that smoke and ash adheres to the air molecules making the air 'thicker'. Of course this thickness creates extra drag causing aircraft to fly much slower. By the time this dirty air hit's the Mississippi, this has mostly dissipated being carried up into the higher altitudes, and you guys get cleaner air at lower altitudes, thus your planes fly faster than the airlines.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. (tongue in cheek)

 

[Kritchlow]

I like when al these comparisons are made, every single step of airline travel is factored in, but for GA travel it’s always “I instantly appear at my airplane and 10 hours later am at my destination.” The GA numbers never take into account flight planning, preflighting, loading bags, the fuel stops (with associated pre-flights, etc.), tying down the airplane, going into the FBO to coordinate fuel, hangar, departure times.

There is a time and a place for GA, for sure, but be realistic about the numbers.

Indeed....
I also find it irritating that most exclude productivity. In other words, many folks can get a lot of work done in the back of an airliner that couldn’t do if they were flying the ship. That includes sleeping.
Now, if your goal is to to actually do the “flying”, that changes the equation a bit.... But that is independent from time for a trip.

 

[SCCutler]

Indeed....
I also find it irritating that most exclude productivity. In other words, many folks can get a lot of work done in the back of an airliner that couldn’t do if they were flying the ship. That includes sleeping.
Now, if your goal is to to actually do the “flying”, that changes the equation a bit.... But that is independent from time for a trip.

If I have a trip long enough to go airline (like an upcoming long weekend work meeting in Tahoe), I’ll buy a seat in First. I can generally get enough work done, using the airline’s WiFi, to more than offset the difference between the coach and First fare. It is pretty much impossible to use a computer in any productive way when seated in the cheap seats; too constricted in space (especially fore-aft), too noisy, too much everything.

The vast majority of my business travel is in-state, and it is pretty much impossible for the airlines to beat my door-to-door times in the Bo, and (amazingly enough) there have been a not-inconsequential number of times that the cost of the airline flight has been higher than the net cost of flying my plane - a natural consequence of living at a major airline hub.