I hate airlines [rant]

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Mtns2Skies, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    There are a number of schools in various parts of the country, and it's very worth trying, even if you don't intend to get rated.

    Thanks., they were taken at Lookout Mountain Flight Park, a little south of Chattanooga near Trenton, GA. I would think every pilot would enjoy spending the morning on the training hills and doing a tandem later in the day. Most people are able to fly solo on the training hills their first day.

    I've always thought that a Cirrus cockpit would be a nice place to be.

    Yeah, it's about priorities, but about budget as well. IIRC at least one of your children is very young. My youngest was 10 the first time we flew somewhere commercially, up until them we always drove.

    I'm familiar with that relative cost thing. When I was single, I used to race cars as a hobby, and I thought that was expensive, until I got married. :rolleyes: Race car is satisfied with a garage, wife wants a house...

    We went to Phoenix for our spring break four years ago. My wife and daughters were getting after me because we had never gone anywhere for spring break. I had some credit card rewards saved up that I was going to use to go away for the weekend with my wife for our anniversary, but used them to go to Arizona. I was airfare shopping in January, and I think it was right around $330 per person including baggage fees. We stayed for two days at the Sheraton at Wild Horse Pass, then went to Sedona for two days to do some hiking, then two more days at the Grand Canyon. We were too late to get lodging at the park, but stayed at the Best Western in Tusayan, which was much nicer than any Best Western I've ever stayed at before.
     
  2. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    It's all in where you live, where you are going, and where the airports are.

    Work is 20 minutes from my house; my hangar is 4 minutes from work. The route to ATL goes past work, and from there is 2 to 2-1/2 hours, plus the advertised "2 hours before departure." My Mooney can take me a long way in 4-1/2 hours--I've not flown a leg that long since moving here, but it would be north to near Columbus, OH or west to the vicinity of Houston, or way down south in Florida.

    When I lived in Columbus, a mere 30 minutes from the airport, I could leave home at 0530 and be in Seagrove, NC (45 minutes south of Greensboro) by mid afternoon, not a lot faster than I could drive. If I'd had my Mooney then, it would have been just over 2 hours to reach Asheboro, where my hotel was, and 15 minutes more to my destination.

    I generally do planning a day or two in advance; get outlook forecasts the day before, then a quick check before departure. Preflight and pull out of the hangar is 10-15 minutes, and I've only been given pre-departure IFR hold once when I didn't feel comfortable picking it up in the air due to low clouds (10 minutes).

    So does it make sense to fly myself? Often it does. I need to feel out my newish employer on that. Just drove to the north side of Atlanta last week, 4 hours up and 3 hours back, to meet a vendor. Google maps says they are 2.4 miles from KRYY, should be 35-40 Mooney minutes. Maybe next time . . .
     
  3. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Exactly. Even burning 45 gph in the Beech 18, I can fly my family of 4 most places east of the Mississippi cheaper than buying airline tickets. And because Norfolk is bastard of the hub and spoke system, it is usually faster.

    Edit: I must have been inhaling too much avgas to say that the Twin Beech was cheaper than the airlines. It was really my Baron that was much cheaper than the airlines. The Beech 18 ends up being about the same as the airlines price-wise, but it is faster.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  4. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    No. Because I looked it up on controller.com and couldn't find a Total Eclipse model later than 2007.

    The rest of the post was very confusing after that...
     
  5. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    With the 5 of us factoring in various baggage fees, etc., AvGas is easily cheaper than airlines when we all travel basically anywhere in the country. This is especially true if you add in stops that we make to visit friends that we wouldn't make via commercial due to the extra expense and inconvenience. But since we need a fuel stop anyway, it's great to get to see some friends who we otherwise wouldn't see.

    It's absolutely about budget as well, and I don't mean to give the impression that we just go off every weekend (or even every month). We couldn't afford that even if we had the time to. We typically do 1-3 family trips per year, which includes visiting my mother for Christmas. As I said, when you factor in 5 airline tickets, the AvGas is easily cheaper. It's also faster when you factor in security, etc.

    If it weren't for the unique situation that gives us access to the 414, we just wouldn't travel, or maybe I'd convert the semi into an RV.
     
  6. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    And no fighting for elbow room.
    IMG_3509.JPG
     
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  7. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Awesome picture! But to be fair, two can play that game.

    No fighting for elbow room here either. Take your pick, the entire right side of an Airbus 321, or the entire left side. JFK to LAX, or LAX to JFK. :)
     

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  8. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    Jealous! My wife and I are talking about flying that way sometime, most likely to Europe. Even that will be a package deal to help keep the cost down.
     
  9. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    It definitely takes some of the pain out of airline travel. I go back and forth to LA every month or two, and I'm fortunate enough to have these airplanes available to me when I jumpseat. Of course, I could just as easily be in coach fighting for elbow room too. Luck of the draw, but the price is right. :)
     
  10. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Resurrecting this thread because United has ruined my day... once again!
     
  11. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    Preach brotha!

    flying commercially is total trash. Not to mention that being forced to spend time with the unwashed general masses is punishment in itself but the emotional cost and opportunity cost of flying commercially is barbaric

    I recently flew back to Boston from San Diego and the door to door time would have been comparable had I taken the Cirrus. And, you have the benefit of not spending time with unwashed strangers but you also get to look out the beautiful window, flying on your own schedule, not have TSA molest you, and just be your own boss. Mind you, I was bumped to Delta One through LAX but a bigger seat does not save you from all the other garbage involved with commercial flight
     
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  12. simtech

    simtech En-Route PoA Supporter

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    We are flying commercial Saturday. Not looking forward to it at the least. I ALWAYS get nabbed to swab my fingers and shoes....EVERY DANG TIME. Sigh....if my Cherokee was faster I would have flown it but 1100 miles in a Cherokee would get old fast.
     
  13. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    Figure 10 hrs.. what's the commercial flight, 2.5 hrs?

    +2.5 flight
    +2 check in, security
    +1 guaranteed delay
    +.5 for luggage
    +1 overall since you are flying into an airport that is inevitably further from your origin and destination than if going private
    =7 hrs.. and that's assuming you are going direct

    **Commercial IS faster.. but relatively marginally so
     
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  14. simtech

    simtech En-Route PoA Supporter

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    We have high terrain to contend with so flight planning was showing around 12 hours and of course would have to stop a few times. We were gonna do it over 2 days and then maybe one day back..going west to Wyoming from MS. So we made the hard decision to go commercial. But Yes I fully agree I can usually beat the airlines door to door even with a Cherokee, especially anywhere down here in the south east.
     
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  15. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    From the "United never did this to me before" file:

    During the last week of May I was in Texas. Early afternoon Friday finds us flying home from Midland via IAH. Travelling with my lead tech. We live in different places so we are splitting up to catch different connecting flights at IAH. But both of us have a 2.5 hour layover. Figure that's plenty of time to have lunch and de-brief the week before we split up.

    Sitting on the Embraer 175 at Midland waiting for pushback. Captain comes on and advises there will be a delay as the fuelers put on 8000 lbs too much and the plane will be over max landing weight at IAH. A while later he comes on again and explains they won't de-fuel the airplane as "it may contaminate the fuel truck" (Airline jet pilots pipe up any time if this is BS; I'm just repeating what they told us dumb piston airplane owner passengers). So eventually off we go. Cruise altitude - 7000 ASL. Nothing like overtaking a Bo or Mooney from underneath. And then...they dropped the gear and put in some flap for the first 40 minutes of cruise. After that the gear came up, but I noticed the upper wing surface spoilers were partially deployed and in near constant motion for the remainder of the trip. I kept wondering if this unusual low level configuration was something the rather youthful pair in the cockpit had ever tried out in the sim. :eek:

    Needless to say, from a 7000 ft cruise the descent and transition to approach was a seriously abbreviated affair. And it still took two tries to get the airplane onto the concrete, so we got a free look at IAH from the pattern.

    Lunch was cancelled as we just barely made the terminal changes for our connections.

    I wanna TBM 910. :cool:
     
  16. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    A few times on airline trips of 1000 nm or so, the combination of driving to/from the big airports, parking, security, delays, connections, baggage claim, etc., etc., made the block-to-block times longer than they would have been had i flown my pokey little 172. :rolleyes:
     
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  17. Busflyer

    Busflyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I know we will occasionally defuel if need be but it’s pretty rare. I’m much more surprised that they flew below 10000’ with the gear and flaps out. I’d at least get above 10k so you can go faster and then maybe use the spoilers for some extra drag. Of course, I have no idea what the gear and flap speeds are for whatever you were flying.
     
  18. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    It's normally only a one hour and twelve minute flight, so that might explain the low altitude and other extraordinary heroics to burn off the excess fuel weight quickly. It was a noisy flight.
     
  19. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    Sometimes it's the right call to make leave it up to the professionals
     
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  20. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Later this month my wife is going to the Philippines to visit with her family. We will drive to Phoenix where we both will fly to LAX together. I will escort my wife through that mess of an airport to the international terminal up to security. When it is time for her to pass through, I will wait until she calls me and lets me know she is on the plane. I will then wait until the plane departs. If everything goes right, I will go back to domestic and wait 6 hours for my flight back to PHX.

    After I get back to PHX I will drive back to Gallup, stopping to eat probably in Payson. I should arrive back home around 1230 local time, about the same time my wife will be arriving in Manila at about 0230 Manila, where she will meet her niece and wait 6 hours for her flight to Tacloban.

    It is going to be a long day for the both of us......
     
  21. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    I take commercial flights out of a semi-rural Oregon airport. Up until a year or two ago there was no dedicated Pre-Check lane, now that there is I often get selected for additional 'random' screening. My guess is that because they're probably supposed to 'randomly' screen like 2 people per hour or some number, if you're the only person for that hour in the pre-check lane you're gonna get selected. One of the downsides to living far from the airport and getting there really early before the 'crowd' in case there's a road problem.
     
  22. Mason

    Mason Pattern Altitude

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    Many fueling vendors will not defuel an airliner due to the possibility of contamination. They have no way of determining the quality of what comes out of the aircraft. However, if the airline owns a storage tank at that airport, they MIGHT defuel the plane and pump the truck contents into your tank.
     
  23. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    It would be almost identical in a Bonanza :D
     
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  24. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    Last time I was on a United Express E175 we had to deplane and defuel... hmm
     
  25. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Many FBOs will not defuel because the fuel coming out of an airplane might have unknown contamination. However, an airline with fuel trucks or tanks might defuel their own airplanes.
     
  26. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Last month DTW => AMS in the exit row on an A350 with no one next to me was nice. AMS => JNB, the 787 seats are the worst seats ever designed in the history of any vehicle ever. A buckboard on the Oregon Trail would have been more comfortable. Had the A330 on all my other legs. Exit rows. Always an exit row. Though, I will probably spring for business class on any flight longer than 5 hours from here on out.
     
  27. simtech

    simtech En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I see what you did there! Haha
     
  28. Busflyer

    Busflyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Did the Boeing factory tour in January. Found out that Boeing has nothing to do with the seats. The airline buys the seats from approved vendors so you can thank whatever airline for your crappy seat.
     
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  29. SToL

    SToL Pre-takeoff checklist

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    LOL.. yeah right. :) Are you going to be around this weekend? Might have my jeep running by then.
     
  30. SToL

    SToL Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oh my God... every time I read one of your post, I hear it in the voice of that guy on the alien tv channel. You're getting on my nerves.
     
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  31. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Then everyone is buying the same crappy seats, because on two different airlines they suck ass.
     
  32. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    How's that working out for you?

    Got it.
     
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  33. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    I'm not saying it is aliens; but it's aliens
     
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  34. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    I like when al these comparisons are made, every single step of airline travel is factored in, but for GA travel it’s always “I instantly appear at my airplane and 10 hours later am at my destination.” The GA numbers never take into account flight planning, preflighting, loading bags, the fuel stops (with associated pre-flights, etc.), tying down the airplane, going into the FBO to coordinate fuel, hangar, departure times.

    There is a time and a place for GA, for sure, but be realistic about the numbers.
     
  35. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    Ok. So your last post in conjunction with my early morning boredom and a quiet house had me thinking. What are some good numbers for this imaginary flight? So, since the original problem was an 1,100 NM flight, I looked at what would be around 1,100 miles from KEWR (my closest commercial airport when I lived in the US). New Orleans looked pretty close. So I came up with 3 options. EWR-MSY direct on United, EWR-CLT-MSY on AA, and BLM-NEW in the Cherokee.

    The Cherokee flight planning was a very rough cut using AirNav for fuel stop planning and assuming a 400 NM range before stopping to refuel. I figured 30 minutes on the ground at each fueling stop.

    I also assumed that I did not check a bag, and that I was staying at the Hilton New Orleans downtown.

    I came up with the following totals:

    EWR-MSY: 7+20/$209

    EWR-CLT-MSY: 8+40/$111

    GA: 13+05/$288 (8 gph * 9 hours * $4.00)

    Now, this was just a time comparison. I know there are many reasons that GA is great and why all of us would rather fly ourselves than fly commercially, but time isn’t on of them. Not at least for longer flights. Maybe if the airports were relatively close and you had to do two legs on the airlines, it would be close. But if they are that close, driving might actually be quicker door-to-door.
    249B6293-473F-4F69-B72F-4E8F12B4ACA2.jpeg
     
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  36. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A recent survey shows that all US airlines suck. American has recently taken to not just crapping on the majority of the passengers, but decided that they need to make First Class crummy as well. Next, they'll introduce a new frequent flyer perk that says that things get worse the more you fly with them.
     
  37. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    For just one person, it's hard to beat the airlines. One can generally fly commercial for lower cost than flying the bugsmasher. Where it gets much more economical and attractive to fly yourself is when you have 3-4 going on the trip. But even then, distance gets thrown into the equation. The wifey doesn't like flights longer than 3-4hrs, so back to commercial anyway.
     
  38. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Flight planning: 5 minutes
    Preflighting : 10 minutes
    Loading Bags: 2 minutes
    Fuel Stops: 0 minutes (I can go 900 miles+)
    Tying down: 0 minutes (FBO parks it)
    Fuel: 0 minutes (FBO fuels it, "coordination" is saying "top off the tip tanks" all the CC info is already on file)
    Departure time: 0 minutes (is a phone call while driving)

    Here's my every step of the way from a non - hub airport to a non - hub airport, and the trip I just did last weekend
    to SDF from western Michigan.

    Punch in my flight planner SDF direct, click next a few times, read the NOTAMS 9:50am
    Depart Office at 10:05am
    Arrive Airport 10:25am
    Preflight, pack, fuel
    Depart 10:44am
    Arrive SDF 12:30pm
    There was a delay with the rental car on arrival, but we were still to the hotel by 1pm.
    So, 3ish hours from the time I left the office to the time I checked in at the hotel.

    Now, let's see how the mighty and amazing airlines do for me.
    Kayak shows the following flights leaving before noon:
    I can depart GRR at 1045 and arrive SDF at 1332, not really that bad. However...
    I have to arrive at the airport at 830 because of parking and security. Oh, and I had bowling balls so those have to get checked. But the bag is overweight so now I get to pay extra.

    So I was able to come into work, get a couple hours of work in, and get to my hotel before the flight on the airlines even arrives.
    Fuel + FBO overnight and fees came to the same price as an airline ticket for me. However, I had passengers, so GA is way ahead, both on time, (2 hours) and on cost of the flight (half of the airlines)

    Even when I was doing something as far away as JAX I was still beating the airlines. I could fly it non-stop in the Comanche. I plan on heading to CNI here in the not too distant future. That should give the airlines the Advantage as I can get direct to ATL, however, I have to drive back from ATL to CNI, and it's only 3:20 flight time via GA to CNI.

    Now, the airlines did kick GA's ass on my previous trip. But that was GRR => JNB which would be about 70 hours of flight time in a 150kt GA plane. And since I really probably only want to fly 8 hours a day, it would take 9 days to get there. The airlines had me there in 2 days.
     
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  39. mryan75

    mryan75 Line Up and Wait

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    Smoothly as in you hurtled through space 6 miles above the earth going 500 mph and arrived at your destination safely?

    It amazes me what people complain about. If you want to walk to Canada, go ahead.
     
  40. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    This is true.. but in my case MYF is 15 minutes and even an aggressive preflight with fuel, etc., means I am airborne within 45 minutes (worst case scenario) after getting to the airport.. that will still beat my similar commute time to SAN until being airborne

    I mean, even when you have a magenta line and Direct-To..?

    6PC had a great video on Cirrus preflighting, as long as I have my cold bottle of water and both wings are still on, red handle is present, we're generally good

    You just have to roll into Signature like you own the place, get out, and walk away.. the line guys take care of everything else

    **PS - obvious sarcasm in those last 3 bullet points
     
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