Help me find a vehicle. I am frustrated.

Sac Arrow

Sac Arrow

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
21,566
Location
Charlotte, NC
Display Name
Snorting his way across the USA
Okay, I want a new vehicle. This is the specs. Okay, let me restate. I want a vehicle, this is the specs. Newest would be nice. New would be great but I doubt that is going to happen.

1. Manual transmission.

2. I would like some sort of small station wagon SUV like a Subaru Outback. Not happening with criteria 1.

3. Jeep Wranglers and Ford Broncos are candidates but finding either with an actual manual near me is difficult. I don't need heavy off road capability. Light off road capability would be a plus. We have mountains and snow here in this state.

4. Manual transmission.

5. Manual transmission.
 
VW Golf Alltrack is a wagon, AWD, and can be found in a manual (certainly not this model year though I'm not sure what years they stopped).
 
Our 2022 Wrangler is a 6 speed manual base model trim. Two door, soft top, no extras other than than A/C.

The dealers only seem to stock fancy expensive 4 door automatics, so we special ordered to get what we wanted.

It has 42,000mi and has been problem free so far.
 
The Honda Civic Si is a nice small four door with stick shift, 200hp, very fun to drive. We had a 2019 and it was a fantastic fun car that routinely got upper 30’s mileage both city and highway. It gave it’s life when a phone talking teen decided to rear end me at ~60mph. I was fine, car was dead :-(

Wife wanted a the Wrangler above as her next car.
 
Part of the problem finding a Jeep with a manual is that there was a factory recall and dealer sales stop on all manuals... apparently the clutch can catch on fire. I don't know if they've resolved it even yet. I tried to find a manual when shopping for a new Gladiator a couple of years ago; there was one available in the entire US, in a high end trim way beyond my budget. Fortunately the automatic they're using is a very good automatic.
 
Dana said:
Part of the problem finding a Jeep with a manual is that there was a factory recall and dealer sales stop on all manuals... apparently the clutch can catch on fire. I don't know if they've resolved it even yet.
Click to expand...

It has, we had a new design clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing installed under recall. Actually I’m quite good with getting those new parts at 38,000mi!
 
IMO, the late years Xterra (2012-2015) with 6 speed manual is the best option.
These easily run for 250,000 miles with no issues.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Okay, I want a new vehicle. This is the specs. Okay, let me restate. I want a vehicle, this is the specs. Newest would be nice. New would be great but I doubt that is going to happen.

1. Manual transmission.

2. I would like some sort of small station wagon SUV like a Subaru Outback. Not happening with criteria 1.

4. Manual transmission.

5. Manual transmission.
Click to expand...
Plenty of used Subaru Outbacks for sale with manual transmissions. Go to cargurus and search for subaru outback manual; you'll find em. I would take a manual over a cvt any day.
 
I've been trying to find a way to import a Euro-spec Outback Diesel 6MT. I am happy to use my 2010 3.6R's VIN plate even though the penalties are severe. IDC. Finding someone to import the thing here for me has proven difficult. I found one shady dude out in TN who said he'd consider it, but has since ghosted.

We rented one in Iceland and it was honestly the perfect car.
 
Have you tried https://www.autotrader.com/

They have a filter for criteria 1, 4, 5.

For the harder to find types equipped the way you want it could take some luck to find one near you. I spent several months looking for a regular cab truck with a sub 8’ bed, V6, 4x4, upgraded stereo with a tow package for <$20k and eventually found one on Auto Trader only 30 minutes away.
 
If you buy new most dealerships can search the inventory of other dealerships for what you want and get it… or order it from the factory.
 
As you know, I'm a huge proponent of manual transmissions, and bemoan the lack of them that exist. I also bemoan how many of the ones that do exist have very poor or otherwise rubbery feel. But, a manual is better than none.

A Bronco with the 4-cylinder and a manual transmission comes to mind as the first pick there, and you can buy it new. We have a Jeep Gladiator with a manual (now no longer available with a manual, but plenty out there used). The reason I say the Ford is like a better pick is because the 2.3 Ecoboost is a nice engine, and I don't have anything really good to say about the Pentastar V6. I like the Jeep fit and finish fine, but the Ford is better. The Jeep also sucks on the highway. But, a Wrangler would be an option, and can be had new as you know. I wouldn't worry too much about finding one near you, just finding one. Sit in one and drive it with an automatic to see if you overall like the vehicle, the manual will just make it better. But I'll say the Pentastar (Wrangler engine) has no torque and is a revvy engine, which doesn't suit the vehicle very well.

As mentioned, used Subarus with manual transmissions exist to get a wagon in that form, but I'm not sure when those stopped.

If you want to go the route of trying to find an older but well kept/low mile vehicle, BMW 3 or 5-series wagon with a manual would be a fun option. I believe some of them were available with AWD.

If you want new but are willing to forego the AWD or four doors, the new Mustangs are nice as well. They're also pretty spacious. Make sure you've got a limited slip differential and some good all season tires and it'll probably do better in the snow than you think. The manual is only available with the V8, which I think is a bit of a shame since the Ecoboost really is a nice little engine, and gets way better mileage. But, still something to consider.

Good luck, we're all counting on you.

#savethemanuals
 
MountainDude said:
IMO, the late years Xterra (2012-2015) with 6 speed manual is the best option.
These easily run for 250,000 miles with no issues.
Click to expand...

That configuration, 4x4 and manual transmission, is extremely rare in that generation Xterra. On cargurus, there is only one that pops up on a nationwide search. It is a 2012 and already has 197k miles.

I'm a Nissan guy, and I'd love to find a good one like that. I'm on my 5th Nissan. One hardbody, two Titans, a Frontier and an Xterra.
 
Ted said:
A Bronco with the 4-cylinder and a manual transmission comes to mind as the first pick there, and you can buy it new.
Click to expand...

When I was in Denver last summer I had a chance to drive my brother’s Bronco 2-door with 2.3 turbo and manual transmission. Honestly, really didn’t like it all that much. The clutch takeup is wonky and the 2.3 Eco has more turbo lag than I would expect. Honestly I find the 2-door Wrangler with the 3.6 NA V6 and manual transmission to be a much more satisfying drive.

Ted said:
We have a Jeep Gladiator with a manual (now no longer available with a manual, but plenty out there used). The reason I say the Ford is like a better pick is because the 2.3 Ecoboost is a nice engine, and I don't have anything really good to say about the Pentastar V6.
Click to expand...

Ted said:
But I'll say the Pentastar (Wrangler engine) has no torque and is a revvy engine, which doesn't suit the vehicle very well.
Click to expand...

@Ted, I think the reason for you dissatisfied with the combo in your truck is weight. The V6/manual combo in the 2-door Wrangler is quite zippy and entertaining. I’d bet the 4-door truck is at least 1500# heavier, and that saps the life out of the V6 at lower revs.
 
None of the new small SUV/CUV vehicles are available with a manual transmission. Probably the most recent used one that you'd find would be the Subaru Crosstrek, which I believe had MTs through the 2023 model year.

Almost all the new cars with a manual are sporty, the Mazda 3 is probably the only exception, although some would include the Toyota Tacoma.

Looking at Auto Trader, manual transmission equipped cars make up 4 tenths of a percent of current inventory in my (Atlanta) area.
 
Go to carmax.com, set your filters, pick one. Done.

I see 182 SUVs and wagons with manual transmissions nationwide. They'll ship to you.
 
Arm3 said:
Have you tried https://www.autotrader.com/
….
Click to expand...
See below
Lindberg said:
Go to carmax.com, set your filters, …
Click to expand...
Autotempest is a seaech aggregator across many care sites. Doesn’t get 100%, but better than visiting them 1 by 1. Carmax is one of thew few I don’t think is aggregated, though.

I’ve bought from Carmax before, but not sure I’d do it again. They had a propensity to sell a lot of fleet and rental returns in the past. The particular Carmax location we shopped also didn’t mind having you test drive cars that still smelled of smoke and/or weed.
 
Used Honda Fit (last manufactured in 2020 it appears). My son had similar criteria, and has been driving a 2015 for 9 years

You'll have to evaluate if it meets your criterion #2.
 
Bill said:
When I was in Denver last summer I had a chance to drive my brother’s Bronco 2-door with 2.3 turbo and manual transmission. Honestly, really didn’t like it all that much. The clutch takeup is wonky and the 2.3 Eco has more turbo lag than I would expect. Honestly I find the 2-door Wrangler with the 3.6 NA V6 and manual transmission to be a much more satisfying drive.

@Ted, I think the reason for you dissatisfied with the combo in your truck is weight. The V6/manual combo in the 2-door Wrangler is quite zippy and entertaining. I’d bet the 4-door truck is at least 1500# heavier, and that saps the life out of the V6 at lower revs.
Click to expand...

Some of this comes down to personal preferences. I agree the biggest problem with the Pentastar is that it's the wrong engine for the vehicle it's in, at least in the case of the Gladiator. Google says that it's more like a 600-1000 lb difference not 1500 lbs between your 2-door Wrangler and my Gladiator, but that's still enough to be noticeable, so I'm sure I would find it better matched in the lighter weight 2-door Wrangler like yours. But the bigger issue more than power itself is the power curve and the associated power delivery. The Pentastar is a revvy engine, peak torque at something like 4500 RPM and peak horsepower around 5900. Down low, there's nothing, characteristic of many other DOHC naturally aspirated engines. I'm not a fan of the clutch on it, the flywheel is too light for the weight of the vehicle plus the engagement starts too close off the floor, while also being too light for my tastes. Not that it needs to be a heavier clutch (there's not enough power to warrant it), just that it feels wimpy. One review I read of the Gladiator compared the Pentastar to the "EcoDiesel" (both with automatics - the diesel is only available with an auto) and they had a similar comment. Despite roughly the same horsepower numbers and same 0-60 time, the power delivery characteristics of the diesel were just better suited to it. More torque, lower RPM.

Conversely, I don't mind turbo lag within reason (after all, I drive plenty of turbo diesels which all have some degree of lag), although I haven't really noticed it on the 2.3 EcoBoost. My suspicion is that is due to the fact that I've mostly driven them near sea level, and you were driving one in Denver, with the associated high DAs.

I have no issues revving an engine high, but that's not something that I enjoy needing to do on a normal street drive to make a car feel like it's got any acceleration at all. A low to mind range power band with good torque is really more appropriate in my mind.

I still like my Jeep, but I would prefer it with literally any other engine option, including the turbo 4 gas engine that is offered in the Wranglers (but not with a manual).
 
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. While the 3.6 isn’t the best engine for the vehicle, it isn’t terrible either. A nice plot of the torque curve from various sources:

1768487142060.png

Yes, below 1800 it’s anemic, but a above that it’s alright, and flat and good past 2500. I rarely rev ours past 3000, and at that level it more than keeps up with traffic. Yes, if I really want to hustle I have to spin it, but a Wrangler doesn’t really lend itself to or like fast sporty driving.

All this said, I would have taken the turbo diesel in a heartbeat had it been available.
 
2010-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Wagon
Porsche Cayenne GTS manual
Audi B5 RS4 avant (can now import them, depending on year)
Mazda Speed3 wagon
Civic Type-R (it's hatch-y)
Subbie WRX-STI (they made it in a wagon for a few years)
Ford Focus RS (interior quality is meh)
 
Ted said:
the biggest problem with the Pentastar is that it's the wrong engine for the vehicle it's in, at least in the case of the Gladiator. Google says that it's more like a 600-1000 lb difference not 1500 lbs between your 2-door Wrangler and my Gladiator, but that's still enough to be noticeable, so I'm sure I would find it better matched in the lighter weight 2-door Wrangler like yours. But the bigger issue more than power itself is the power curve and the associated power delivery. The Pentastar is a revvy engine, peak torque at something like 4500 RPM and peak horsepower around 5900. Down low, there's nothing, characteristic of many other DOHC naturally aspirated engines. I'm not a fan of the clutch on it, the flywheel is too light for the weight of the vehicle plus the engagement starts too close off the floor, while also being too light for my tastes. Not that it needs to be a heavier clutch (there's not enough power to warrant it), just that it feels wimpy. One review I read of the Gladiator compared the Pentastar to the "EcoDiesel" (both with automatics - the diesel is only available with an auto) and they had a similar comment. Despite roughly the same horsepower numbers and same 0-60 time...
Click to expand...
I haven't driven a Gladiator with the manual so I can't speak to that, but the Pentastar combined with the ZF 8-speed automatic does very well in the Gladiator. Between the many close spaced gears and the computer control, it's just always in the proper gear, and it's very responsive to pedal pressure so you can make it shift almost like you would a manual. What really surprised me is that its 0-60 time is actually faster than my old 280Z, which was considered a fast car in its day.
 
So, let me see if I understand this right: you're willing to try your luck with an engine that earned itself the nickname of "EcoBoom", but an automatic transmission is the showstopper?
 
AV8R_87 said:
So, let me see if I understand this right: you're willing to try your luck with an engine that earned itself the nickname of "EcoBoom", but an automatic transmission is the showstopper?
Click to expand...

A manual transmission is a glorious anti-theft device in, among other places, Oakland. :D
 
Arm3 said:
But does it come with a manual transmission?
Click to expand...
Everything is manual with all those knobs, levers and valves, and you will use all of them before you even get into the drivers seat...:yesnod:
 
Zeldman said:
Everything is manual with all those knobs, levers and valves, and you will use all of them before you even get into the drivers seat...:yesnod:
Click to expand...
Which lever and or knob makes the car go “chitty chitty bang bang”?
 
3rd Gen Toyota 4 runner.
Manual trans, reliability better than any Ford, Dodge, or Chevy. I can sleep comfortably in the back of mine, and keep all my gear dry and relatively secure. Gets 22-24 MPG.

Mine has 330,000 miles on it, bought it at 260,000. Driving it from Idaho to Arizona next week, no worries at all.
 
schmookeeg said:
I've been trying to find a way to import a Euro-spec Outback Diesel 6MT. I am happy to use my 2010 3.6R's VIN plate even though the penalties are severe. IDC. Finding someone to import the thing here for me has proven difficult. I found one shady dude out in TN who said he'd consider it, but has since ghosted.

We rented one in Iceland and it was honestly the perfect car.
Click to expand...

You can probably get one in Canada or Mexico, get it registered in in Wyoming, or some other state that only cares the you pay the fee, and leave it registered there. I came across a gent that has done this with a VW Eurovan with the full Westphalia camper kit... which were not available in the US.

The Peoples Republic of Kalifornication is the only place you'll get the hassle.. We were taking the EJ22 engines out of Subarus and putting them in VW Vanagon Campers, and each time it required a BAR/CARB inspection. We're putting a more fuel efficient low emission engine in a gross polluting car and they still jump ya through hoops. We even did it with a couple of VW 1.8T... oye....
 
MountainDude said:
IMO, the late years Xterra (2012-2015) with 6 speed manual is the best option.
These easily run for 250,000 miles with no issues.
Click to expand...
I have a 2014, automatic, and I love it. Problem with Xterra is they stopped making them in 2015, and I think everyone that has one keeps them.

Maybe the Frontier is available manual, but I don't know if you'd consider a pickup. I know of 2 people that went to the new Bronco and like them, but don't know if that's available as a manual.

I'm in a similar situation trying to find a body on frame actual SUV that isn't Suburban sized. I thought about a 4 runner, but the new ones are a turbo 4 with an 8-speed automatic, and there aren't good reviews about the 8-speed.
 
Albany Tom said:
Maybe the Frontier is available manual, but I don't know if you'd consider a pickup.
Click to expand...

I have a Frontier and if you need a great midsize truck with a short bed they are awesome but a manual trans is no longer offered (I believe they quit the manual circa 2010). My last pickup (Ford Ranger) was a manual and I like driving a stick but admittedly as I get older and have to drive through more traffic I'm enjoying the 9-speed automatic in the Frontier.
 
Unfortunately, Autotrader and other sites are worthless for filtering. Back when I was shopping for a vehicle, I was 100% in for a manual, and a HUGE percentage of the vehicles listed as having a manual were clearly automatics. It was pointless, I had to look at every listing one by one.



I have no brand loyalty. I ended up factory ordering*** my Wrangler in 2022 with a manual with very little regret. My only regret was not buying something older*. The manual in the Wrangler has a very bad reputation, that is probably earned. It was poorly designed, just an afterthought really. The clutch has had multiple recalls. However, I'm convinced that it is because people don't know how to drive that they are failing (the bursting into flames is the Jeep flaw). I read in the Jeep forums of people who "know how to drive a manual", but somehow struggle to drive without looking at a tach, or swear the clutch feels like garbage, when it is the smoothest clutch I have ever operated**. It also has tall gearing, which sucks unless you have a Rubicon which comes with lower gearing (which I do).



The V6 has its issues too. They like to eat cams. So far, there has been no solution to this problem. However, I believe it has more to do with how abusive you are on the engine. Which comes to the other issue, they like to blow head gaskets, which I believe is for the same reason, abuse. Now it is of my opinion that if the abuse is from off roading, than it is kinda BS. They are off road vehicles! But some people also like to WAY overload them. Which leads me to...the power issue. There is no power issue. 260 HP is a monster off road. What are people complaining about? I used to go off road with a pathetic 140 HP and never had a problem, but now 100 MORE is too weak? I can idle through most obstacles I encounter, any throttle is just for a little extra momentum. I might now wheel it a lot, but WAY more than the average Jeep owner, and the V6 is plenty powerful enough. Unless you decide you want to tow over the weight capacity at 80 MPH, then you'll probably have issues. Which, people do.



I would personally steer anyone away from a Jeep, unless you are buying it for Jeep things.



The Bronco will have better on road manners. That is all I know about it. I'm generally a Ford guy, but the Jeep is the superior off road vehicle, so that's what I bought.



When I was vehicle shopping, my brain tried to get me to buy a Subaru Crosstrek, which has a manual option. But a combination of a dealer giving me the run around and my heart making the decision, I passed on it. Every Crosstrek owner I know loves it. It's a hatchback.

If I could go back in time, I would seriously consider a Focus RS or ST. I had a non ST Fiesta and absolutely loved it, until someone hit me and totaled it (I walked away). But I'm even more tempted now by something like a 90's Mercedes wagon.



*I bought new so I would have something nice and reliable for once in my life. My first, and last new vehicle.

**I have not driven a car with a "nice" clutch.

***Dealer was offering big discounts on ordered vehicles, but not anything on the lot. Pandemic times.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4958.jpg
    IMG_4958.jpg
    420.9 KB · Views: 7
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top