Help me find a vehicle. I am frustrated.

Ted said:
I don't have anything really good to say about the Pentastar V6
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I love my 3.6L Pentastar... just put 230k on my 2014 Caravan. I get about 25-27mpg on the highway in a Caraven and can run 85% ethanol at $2/gal. The motor is strong and is used in a TON of Dodge (or whatever they are called today) vehicles. I have replaced rockers (big deal, a $8 part and maybe two hours to fix) and the transmission (torque converter failed then my own stupidity) but still, only a $900 problem. My last fix was a transmission input seal leak (again, a $5 part with about 10 hours of my labor) and transmission cooler lines ($35 and 30 minutes).

Compare what I had to do to my 94 F150: rockers, frame rust (replaced 8ft of frame), bed (rust), new oil pump, new timing chain tensioners, new VVT solenoids, 6 broken spark plugs, cracked right side exhaust header... basically all thing things that normally go wrong with that model went wrong.

Every motor has issues. Ford Tritons had spark plug and VVT issues. Every car I have owned has had some sort of bug that people complained about but in realty were not a huge issue. The reality is that when you make 10,000,000 Pentastars in 6+ models people complain even though its a < 1% failure rate. 1% of 10,000,000 is still a big number.

I will not buy a new car and I dread the day when I have to buy a car with all the interior electronics.... if your screen goes out you can't do anything with the car. I hate lane assist and adaptive cruise for all the extra electronics.

Luckily Canada and Mexico still have a lot of newer cars devoid of electronics and even a good supply of manuals... not sure about importing them but the parts are there for hacking something together. Also if its 25 years or older importing is dead simple.
 
Sac Arrow said:
1. Ordered and installed a third-party idle stop override. It didn't work. That is frustrating. But it didn't screw anything up either. That is relieving. I sent a support request to the MFG of the part, and actually got a prompt response with some questions, but I just don't have time right now to deal with it. Installing it was a semi-big deal. I had to pop off a few trim pieces from the front windshield camera mount (no biggie) but the Phillips screws I had to remove were SO TIGHT that I had to try multiple screwdrivers, and a vice grip latched on the handle to break them free. I was afraid I'd strip the heads. Torx or bolts would have been a better choice. I'm not going back in there anytime soon.
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I've installed front/rear cameras in both of ours and installed one autostart-stopper so I've been in there a few times to hook things up. Agreed wholeheartedly it's tight to work in. I ended up taking more of it apart than I wanted in the Crosstrek just to get the power adapter accesible.
 
FORANE said:
He said it was designed to force people to take their car to the dealer.
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I believe that.

I understand the newer model subs have a different design so the front of the car doesn't have to be disassembled just to change the headlight bulb.
 
I think I went in through the fender well to get at the headlight bulb. I definitely used preacher words during :D

I rue the loss of the 3.6 boxer Subie engine. I may yet get a 2017 to replace my 2010 before they become cult classics. I think that was the last year of the 5EAT tranny.
 
schmookeeg said:
I rue the loss of the 3.6 boxer Subie engine. I may yet get a 2017 to replace my 2010 before they become cult classics. I think that was the last year of the 5EAT tranny.
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I have a 2017 3.6 Outback, it has the heavier duty version of the CVT. The flat 6 is one creamy smooth performer. I’ll run it into the ground.
 
Bill said:
I have a 2017 3.6 Outback, it has the heavier duty version of the CVT. The flat 6 is one creamy smooth performer. I’ll run it into the ground.
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Oops -- Maybe that was the last year of the cloth seats option?... been a minute since I researched "which one to replace my 2010 when it ever dies?" and I favored the 17 over the 19 for some reason. Anyway the "when it ever dies" -- seems to be purely theoretical. Just did a 1500mi trip over 3 days in the cuca-Ru-cha. now at 206K and no sign of even squawking.
 
schmookeeg said:
I think I went in through the fender well to get at the headlight bulb. I definitely used preacher words during :D

I rue the loss of the 3.6 boxer Subie engine. I may yet get a 2017 to replace my 2010 before they become cult classics. I think that was the last year of the 5EAT tranny.
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Yes regarding the headlight approach and cussin.

Nope regarding the years of the 5EAT. The 5EAT was used on the 3.6r until 2014; in 2015 they used a cvt on all outbacks. The 4 cylinder in 2010-2014 all had cvt.

The 3.6 was also used in the Subaru Tribeca from 2008-2014 and they all had the 5EAT. We owned a Tribeca for a few years. The Tribeca shared the same 3.6 drivetrain as the Outback but had larger wheels, sat higher and felt more like a truck. We had alot of maintenance issues with it though and the fit and finish was poor.
 
schmookeeg said:
Oops -- Maybe that was the last year of the cloth seats option?... been a minute since I researched "which one to replace my 2010 when it ever dies?" and I favored the 17 over the 19 for some reason. Anyway the "when it ever dies" -- seems to be purely theoretical. Just did a 1500mi trip over 3 days in the cuca-Ru-cha. now at 206K and no sign of even squawking.
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Well if @tonycondon 's experience is repeatable, you should be good for at least another 172k (and that number is still going up).
 
pfarber said:
I love my 3.6L Pentastar... just put 230k on my 2014 Caravan. I get about 25-27mpg on the highway in a Caraven and can run 85% ethanol at $2/gal. The motor is strong and is used in a TON of Dodge (or whatever they are called today) vehicles. I have replaced rockers (big deal, a $8 part and maybe two hours to fix) and the transmission (torque converter failed then my own stupidity) but still, only a $900 problem. My last fix was a transmission input seal leak (again, a $5 part with about 10 hours of my labor) and transmission cooler lines ($35 and 30 minutes).

Compare what I had to do to my 94 F150: rockers, frame rust (replaced 8ft of frame), bed (rust), new oil pump, new timing chain tensioners, new VVT solenoids, 6 broken spark plugs, cracked right side exhaust header... basically all thing things that normally go wrong with that model went wrong.

Every motor has issues. Ford Tritons had spark plug and VVT issues. Every car I have owned has had some sort of bug that people complained about but in realty were not a huge issue. The reality is that when you make 10,000,000 Pentastars in 6+ models people complain even though its a < 1% failure rate. 1% of 10,000,000 is still a big number.

I will not buy a new car and I dread the day when I have to buy a car with all the interior electronics.... if your screen goes out you can't do anything with the car. I hate lane assist and adaptive cruise for all the extra electronics.

Luckily Canada and Mexico still have a lot of newer cars devoid of electronics and even a good supply of manuals... not sure about importing them but the parts are there for hacking something together. Also if its 25 years or older importing is dead simple.
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None of my complaints about the Pentastar have anything to do with it as an engine itself. They 100% have to do with the fact that it's a poorly suited engine for the Gladiator. I expect it will last longer than we keep the Jeep, but we'll see how long that is. We overall like the Jeep and it does our mission well.

Everything I've heard is that it's overall reliable, and while I care about that, I care more about an engine's personality and appropriateness for the vehicle it's in. I think it would be a great engine for a smaller, lighter weight vehicle.
 
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So a couple gripes so far...

1. I inadvertently pushed an icon on the screen (I had no idea what it did) but it was the button to "turn on connected services." There was no option to turn it back off other than a message to log in to mysubaru.com and change the setting there. Well this is a rant in itself but when I tried to log on, I got in an endless loop asking for two factor authentication, new passwords, and by the way I need a temporary password I don't have. Never mind that I emailed tech support on the 24th of last month and got a reply they had opened a ticket, that was the last I heard from them. Well, after two lengthy phone calls I got it sorted out. And by the way I can't find the option to turn off connected services. I don't want them monitoring my speed, location, vehicle status, etc...

2. This afternoon on the way back from the office I got a message saying that a software update is required, do you wish to continue. Except there was no option to continue. Then I stopped at a light. There was an option to continue. Leery about this and being bricked on the freeway offramp, I waited until I was home, only to find that it would take twenty minutes and by the way I need to leave my engine running. WTF. I suspect this could be remedied in 1. but if I could just find the option.
 
Sounds like a trip to the dealer. When we got my wife’s Lexus, they spent a couple hours asking us what stuff did, what we wanted turned on, what turned off, getting us signed in for remote start (app based), etc.

We’ve been back a few times to have their tech support undo revert changes that were made back to how we wanted it. This is a no charge service they provide.
 
A 20 minute software update that requires you keep the engine running the whole time sounds like a major flaw in their system. My wife's Alfa Romeo has a ton of software updates (I always chuckle at the "Software Update application" updates). However, those take seconds to do, not minutes.
 
Sac Arrow said:
So a couple gripes so far...

1. I inadvertently pushed an icon on the screen (I had no idea what it did) but it was the button to "turn on connected services." There was no option to turn it back off other than a message to log in to mysubaru.com and change the setting there. Well this is a rant in itself but when I tried to log on, I got in an endless loop asking for two factor authentication, new passwords, and by the way I need a temporary password I don't have. Never mind that I emailed tech support on the 24th of last month and got a reply they had opened a ticket, that was the last I heard from them. Well, after two lengthy phone calls I got it sorted out. And by the way I can't find the option to turn off connected services. I don't want them monitoring my speed, location, vehicle status, etc...

2. This afternoon on the way back from the office I got a message saying that a software update is required, do you wish to continue. Except there was no option to continue. Then I stopped at a light. There was an option to continue. Leery about this and being bricked on the freeway offramp, I waited until I was home, only to find that it would take twenty minutes and by the way I need to leave my engine running. WTF. I suspect this could be remedied in 1. but if I could just find the option.
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Wowzers, ugh. This must be in the newer models in the last few years. That all sucks. I wonder if there's a way to just permanently turn all that garbage off. Unless there's some safety issue or really annoying bug, I don't need updates.

We had a Tesla Model 3 for 7-8 years, and I loved the car. It has its software issues, but you could at least schedule your updates for when you weren't driving.
 
I had an older Subaru, the cost of repairs convinced me that it was a disposable car. But I only paid $12 for it; it was "I don't know what's wrong with it, it won't go faster than 25 mph, if you can fix it you can have it."

It needed a fuel filter. Drove it for several years after that until some repairs would have cost more than the car was worth.

Ted said:
None of my complaints about the Pentastar have anything to do with it as an engine itself. They 100% have to do with the fact that it's a poorly suited engine for the Gladiator. I expect it will last longer than we keep the Jeep, but we'll see how long that is. We overall like the Jeep and it does our mission well.

Everything I've heard is that it's overall reliable, and while I care about that, I care more about an engine's personality and appropriateness for the vehicle it's in. I think it would be a great engine for a smaller, lighter weight vehicle.
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I OTOH find the Pentastar is well matched to the Gladiator, at least with the 8 speed automatic. 0-60 in 7s and an easy 95mph on the highway. But I have the base Sport model and reasonably sized (33") tires.
 
mark.staggs said:
Wowzers, ugh. This must be in the newer models in the last few years. That all sucks. I wonder if there's a way to just permanently turn all that garbage off. Unless there's some safety issue or really annoying bug, I don't need updates.

We had a Tesla Model 3 for 7-8 years, and I loved the car. It has its software issues, but you could at least schedule your updates for when you weren't driving.
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I work for a car company, but not this car company, and I don't speak for either of them. That said, so as to not get fired for omitting this-

One issue around the fancy screen is that it supports the rear view camera, which is a regulated, required safety feature. So some companies have had to have software updates to improve the functionality of the camera system.

Other companies have service procedures to basically put the vehicle on ground power during module reflashes- a power interruption at the wrong time could be disastrous. I suspect, but don't know, this is why Subaru wants the engine running. It's simply the only way to ensure the module voltage doesn't dip during the reflash process and leave a corrupted mess of undriveable crap for the customer. The Tesla, by comparison, has infinite power available to it.

The Subaru infotainment system is frequently cited as being deficient compared to what reviewers or customers expect out of them.

Have you gotten tired of the various random beeps and bloops out of the driver assist features?
 
My wife is very happy with her cat outback XT ((2023 model)), but the technology is definitely flier than a box of post toast.

It beeps, boops and complains so much when you’re driving, that we call it “bitchin’ Betty,” i’ve lost track of the number of times it is it managed to become a “eyes on the road!“ when my eyes are absolutely on the road.

Sometimes, if you’re trying to get through a clump of bonehead, slow drivers, and you see a gap in traffic that you want to go through and punch it, it decides you’re about to hit something and pulls the power away from you. I think that’s more dangerous.
 
Our Subarus are '21 and '23 models, so thankfully it doesn't have the eye monitoring tech. Our Tesla got updates to do that, and it was irritating because the typical reasons I wasn't watching the road were to read the other alerts it was giving me on the screen. :)

As for the Subaru's general beeps and boops about lane departure and the occasional overzealous collision avoidance can be annoying. The funny thing is you get desensitized by the frequency so I barely notice them now.
 
mark.staggs said:
Our Subarus are '21 and '23 models, so thankfully it doesn't have the eye monitoring tech. Our Tesla got updates to do that, and it was irritating because the typical reasons I wasn't watching the road were to read the other alerts it was giving me on the screen. :)

As for the Subaru's general beeps and boops about lane departure and the occasional overzealous collision avoidance can be annoying. The funny thing is you get desensitized by the frequency so I barely notice them now.
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I disabled lane assist but left the warnings on. I might turn that off too. I don't mind the lights but the stick shaker is annoying.

And yes, the eye monitoring is super irritating. I need to find a way to turn that off.
 
As an update, I got the login issue resolved. I'm still not sure how to disable connected services, but all I'm really worried about is having service plans that auto renew. That does not appear to be the case. At some point the XM trial will expire, and I don't plan on renewing it.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I disabled lane assist but left the warnings on. I might turn that off too. I don't mind the lights but the stick shaker is annoying.

And yes, the eye monitoring is super irritating. I need to find a way to turn that off.
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I don’t have the eyeball checker thing, but most of the other stuff. I used the manual and went thru all the menu settings, I turned off all beeps that could be silenced and set the few that couldn’t to min volume. Helps some.
 
Pay less and get an older version without all that crap?
 
Yeah, the depreciation sucks, but I tend to buy new and drive into the ground. This discussion is giving me lots to think about on next vehicle, though.
 
Ditto, I like new cars, but I hold them a long time. I buy a new car every 15-17 years.
 
Buy them after the 5-year lease is done.
Solves the depreciation problem and most of the early mortality issues are talen care of.
 
So far, my observations:

1. Having disabled the annoying lane assist, it really handles nicely. I took it in the mountains today (not snow level but wet) and it feels planted even on slick roads. I still left the warnings on. I wish there was a way to turn the stick shaker off but leave the lights and signals on. There probably is. CG seems (and probably is) low for its height. Not a lot of body roll on sharp curves and corners. I was pretty happy with it.

2. I might like the rain sensing wipers, if I could get them to slow down. I would like to figure out how to disable them and just have manual delay, but I can't find that option despite repeated Googling.

3. I think adaptive cruise control is new for '26 but not sure. I've been playing with it on the freeway, and it actually works fairly well. It slows and speeds with traffic, and you can set the follow distance. I had it set to max. During the time I played with it, traffic never slowed to the point where I had to disconnect it and take over, so I don't know how it will act if traffic suddenly stops. I suspect the emergency braking will kick in at some point. I'm not sure how to feel about the auto steering. I think it teeters a bit to check to see if you are still holding on to the wheel. If you totally let it go it becomes very unhappy. I would probably use it more. As it is, I rarely ever use cruise, and only I'm in no traffic at all.

4. The thing watches your eyes and ******* you out if it thinks you aren't looking at the road. I turned that **** off.

5. Performance is decent despite having a 2.5L engine, which is a tad small for its size. With a 3,800 pound curb weight, it's still quite a bit lighter than my '08 Explorer (about 4,600 lbs), with a 4.6L V6, and it seems to perform better. I guess the unit body makes a big difference. No race car but good enough for my needs.

6. I know backup cameras are standard now, but the camera + warning system is nice when you are parked next to a BFT and can't see what's coming when you're backing.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I think adaptive cruise control is new for '26 but not sure. I've been playing with it on the freeway, and it actually works fairly well. It slows and speeds with traffic, and you can set the follow distance. I had it set to max. During the time I played with it, traffic never slowed to the point where I had to disconnect it and take over, so I don't know how it will act if traffic suddenly stops. I suspect the emergency braking will kick in at some point.
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The cruise control in my wife's Mazda 3 works smoothly all the way down to a complete stop, and will start moving again when the car in front starts moving. Actually kind of neat in stop and go traffic.
 
Sac Arrow said:
So far, my observations:

1. Having disabled the annoying lane assist, it really handles nicely. I took it in the mountains today (not snow level but wet) and it feels planted even on slick roads.

2. I might like the rain sensing wipers, if I could get them to slow down. I would like to figure out how to disable them and just have manual delay, but I can't find that option despite repeated Googling.
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1: yes Subarus handle great.
2: be careful when you wash the windshield at a gas station when the car is running. The wipers will attack you.
 
My wife's Subie is a '23 Outback XT. The turbo mill is a bit raspy under heavy acceleration, but silent at cruise, and teh turbo keeps it up with most anything. It does have the adaptive cruise, and it works very well; will take the car all the way down to an almost-stop and pick back up as traffic ebbs and flows. Very nice. If traffic comes to a complete stop, it also stops. When traffic moves again, you just tap the gas and it picks back up, same settings.

If you have the cruise control set, then you accelerate past 100 MPH (say, passing), it goes "Ding!" and the cruise disconnects. Or, so I have been told... ;-)
 
Okay, a truly bizarre trait - the headlights will come on automatically at night or in dim light even if they are turned off. A quick Google confirmed that this is actually a thing in the newer vehicles. I don't get it. There are three positions - on, auto, and off. Off will turn it off if you are parked (as in, transmission set in park.) If it thinks it's too dark, it will turn the lights back on when you shift in to drive. Turning them on, then off will temporarily turn them off but they will come back on in a few seconds.

This actually kind of ****ses me off.
 
Planning to do a bootlegging run while wearing NVGs?

It's been done before.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Okay, a truly bizarre trait - the headlights will come on automatically at night or in dim light even if they are turned off. A quick Google confirmed that this is actually a thing in the newer vehicles. I don't get it. There are three positions - on, auto, and off. Off will turn it off if you are parked (as in, transmission set in park.) If it thinks it's too dark, it will turn the lights back on when you shift in to drive. Turning them on, then off will temporarily turn them off but they will come back on in a few seconds.

This actually kind of ****ses me off.
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Yes, this is frustrating as hell. I was trying to take a quick sunset photo out the car (Forester) window, and I could NOT get the lights to turn off and stay off--user error I'm sure.

I think I just suck at modern cars' light controls since these scenarios have happened to me in multiple vehicles. For example, we were staying in the NC mountains for a week at one point, and it rained while we were out to dinner. While we were driving up a steep incline in the dark and rain back to the cabin, for the life of me, I couldn't get the high beams to stay on. I long for purely manual headlight controls. All the auto and driver-overridden settings irk me.
 
mark.staggs said:
Yes, this is frustrating as hell.
All the auto and driver-overridden settings irk me.
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Same here, and I think for more of us than not. Unfortunately we're left to accept it or maintain an older vehicle. I haven't acquiesced yet.
 
The auto high beams on our Outback and Transit work very well. *shrug*
 
Bill said:
The auto high beams on our Outback and Transit work very well. *shrug*
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On the Subarus and the Tesla Model 3 we had, the auto high beams worked mostly "ok", but I'd never say "very well". Exterior lighting (e.g. streetlights, sign lighting, etc.) causes them to randomly switch off/on. I suppose maybe knowing when and how to not use them is the key.
 
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