Gov’t shutdown - Anyone else denied service ?

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Heliflyer5

Filing Flight Plan
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Brad Dalh
Tonight I came back to KCFO at 8:45 local. First call, 10 miles south inbound for touch and go’s.
“Negative, no touch and go’s remain outside class D airspace”. Confused, I was getting close to the the Class D vail so I bank east into the black abyss. I called back and said this is my (temp) home base, is the airport closed? “Cleared to land 35R, full stop”. This was my first night landing in my new to me Bonanza, so this unexpected denial of trying to get my night currency threw me. I then tried to explain I was trying to get my night currency. I can’t remember exactly what was said but the controller cleared me to taxi to Rwy 8 for a departure. When ready for departure I said ready to depart, full stop, taxi back and he said negative eastbound departure only. Not wanting to takeoff and try and go someplace else for a landing or two unplanned I just called it a night with one landing. I am unaware of any noise abatement or notams that might have prevented night practice. I’ve been to KAPA where they’ll deny you practice landings due excessive traffic, but there was only one other aircraft shooting practice approaches. I’m thinking the controller wanted only to do the bare minimum due to the shutdown
 
At my class D they’ll find any reason to deny pattern work, shutdown or not.
 
Hey, if we private pilots can’t receive pay, I don’t think ATC has anything to complain about...
:devil:

If it’s your home drome, why not just walk over to the tower and ask to speak with a supervisor?
 
8:45 pm and the tower closes at 7 pm. Who were you talking to?

Wait a minute…..
 
Ya… pinged the fed air surgeon, who normally just ignores us. Got a reply in minutes… “got your correspondence, just not gonna respond due to the shutdown”

Uh, moron, you do realize you just did more work than BEFORE the shutdown don’t you? geesh.

Called the FSDO to start working on getting authorization for the IA test, recording

“we’re closed due to the shutdown”.

With the faa, it’s hard to tell if it’s a “shutdown”.
 
Not directly but we are starting to hear murmers about Delays and Cancellations "Due to the controller issue". I don't know the specifics but that was the talk when deciding who gets a free hotel for the night and who doesn't. I was at DFW until 1 AM listening to some really irate people that were informed by the another airline adjacent to us that they wouldn't be getting a hotel because their missed connection was not a fault of weather or the airline but rather "The controller issue". 1. I think its coming. 2. There isn't enough money in the world you could pay me to be a gate agent. I would snap.
 
It's what, day 31 of working for no pay for the controllers? Personally, I'm on day 23, due to some funding weirdness that kept us funded through Oct 8th.

Likely to receive back pay or not, working for no pay sucks. Not getting a paycheck last week sucked. (Likely) not getting a paycheck next week will suck. Personally, I'm willing to give the controllers every bit of slack that I can.
 
Last weekend I flew near DC, Philadelphia and NY Bravo Airspaces, Those airspaces were busy but I didn't notice any poor service or loss of professionalism at all.
 
I've heard the opposite. Got an email saying that tower was not going to allow pattern work after 5pm. On my way in, I hear someone else request pattern work and the controller replied "you're not supposed to, but I can sneak in a couple laps for you".

If I were a participant rather than an eavesdropper, tower would have been on the receiving end of a gift card.
 
I have a friend who asked his FSDO for a ferry permit before this shutdown business. He got kicked to a DAR

Now that we're IN a shutdown, one of the FSDO critters apparently called him to remind him that he needs the DAR and not to just YOLO it -- because "we watch flightaware" -- like, these jerks didn't have time for a ferry permit review but they have time to place menacing calls to their disappointed customers and creep flightaware looking for busts?

F that whole agency at this point. Nothing but a pension farm.
 
What I want to know is how 'essential' workers can be forced to work without pay. Indentured servitude is illegal, is it not?

Someone needs to sue the GOv't and get a SCOTUS ruling on this so in the future politicians can't pull this crap.

As far as a tower... remember FAR 91.3. A case could be made that there was no ATC and you landed 'at your own risk'
 
pfarber said:
What I want to know is how 'essential' workers can be forced to work without pay. …
Click to expand...
Same reason why a Viper doesn’t need an annual inspection or 91.411/.413entry in the logbook.

Government sets the rules.
 
pfarber said:
What I want to know is how 'essential' workers can be forced to work without pay. …
Click to expand...
Same reason why a Viper doesn’t need an annual inspection or 91.411/.413entry in the logbook.

Government sets the rules.
 
pfarber said:
What I want to know is how 'essential' workers can be forced to work without pay. …
Click to expand...
Same reason why a Viper doesn’t need an annual inspection or 91.411/.413entry in the logbook.

Government sets the rules.
 
pfarber said:
What I want to know is how 'essential' workers can be forced to work without pay. Indentured servitude is illegal, is it not?

Someone needs to sue the GOv't and get a SCOTUS ruling on this so in the future politicians can't pull this crap.

As far as a tower... remember FAR 91.3. A case could be made that there was no ATC and you landed 'at your own risk'
Click to expand...
So called essential workers can always quit if they so desire so I am not sure where you get that “indentured servitude” …
 
The Brainseed test center in Reno proctors the PPL written, I saw it listed on their website before the shutdown.
It's not there now, I assume it's due to the shutdown.
 
I was on Flight Following with Jax Approach this afternoon. Heard them tell a southbound plane that Tampa wasn’t accepting Flight Following requests.
 
You can use this website to see at least some of the major delay and ground stop programs nationwide. Late this afternoon about a dozen large hubs were all under some type of ground stop or delay program due to staffing. ATL Center and NYC Center were also showing flow restrictions through their airspace due to staffing.

National Airspace System

The Federal Aviation Administration's National Airspace System (NAS) dashboard
nasstatus.faa.gov nasstatus.faa.gov
 
pfarber said:
What I want to know is how 'essential' workers can be forced to work without pay. Indentured servitude is illegal, is it not?
Click to expand...
Part of the union contract, I think. That's how Reagan fired all the striking controllers in the '80s...they took an action specifically prohibited by the contract.

This might be different; might not. It's obviously not a union action (yet....), and there are probably provisions in the rules (if not the contract itself) requiring a controller take themselves off duty if they are unable to perform to standard. Be easier for the administration to just take the Reagan approach and call it an unauthorized union action.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Staffing triggers from the ATCSCC Operations Plan from 0200 on the last Saturday morning before the shutdown, exactly 5 weeks ago:

Screenshot 2025-11-01 at 1.15.19 AM.png

Staffing triggers from the ATCSCC Operations Plan from 0200 today (Saturday):

Screenshot 2025-11-01 at 1.11.46 AM.png
 
Ain't gettin' better soon. ATC has had a staffing shortage for years. This will crater any hiring in the next few years. Who wants a job where you can be denied pay yet still required to work? And many current controllers will quit and do something else.

I hate the thought of privatizing ATC, but this could be a sound impetus for it.
 
eman1200 said:
I highly, highly doubt that. Highly.
Click to expand...

You may be right, but I'd appreciate learning your rationale.

People have mortages to pay and brats to feed. Seems to me they'd want to find a more secure income.
 
Sorry for the counter point of view, but these guys are NOT working for free, their full pay will be paid when the government reopens.

Ordinary citizens who have contract jobs will not be paid, period.

When I was drafted from a good paying job, and paid $3 a day, with jail for an alternate if I walked out, that was involuntary servitude, near slavery
 
Half Fast said:
You may be right, but I'd appreciate learning your rationale.

People have mortages to pay and brats to feed. Seems to me they'd want to find a more secure income.
Click to expand...

These people are paid well. While they are not getting paid NOW, they will get compensated.

A quick check on ChatGPT which is never wrong:


eman: “In prior government shutdowns where ATC personnel did not get paid was there a high quit rate?”

Good question — the short answer is no, there wasn’t a significant quit rate among air traffic controllers during prior government shutdowns, even when they were working without pay.

Here are the relevant facts:
• Air traffic controllers (ATCs) are classified as essential federal employees under the FAA, so they must continue to work even during shutdowns. However, they do not receive pay until the shutdown ends and Congress authorizes back pay.
• During the 2018–2019 government shutdown (the longest in U.S. history, 35 days), there were not large numbers of resignations, but there were serious staffing and morale problems.
• The National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA) reported increased fatigue, stress, and financial hardship, but only a very small number actually quit.
• The bigger operational issue was staffing shortages due to normal attrition and retirements, which were already a problem before the shutdown.
• On January 25, 2019, several controllers at major facilities (like New York TRACON and Washington Center) called in sick—essentially a form of protest—which caused flight delays and led to the shutdown’s resolution later that day.
• Historically, during earlier shutdowns (e.g., 1995–96), there’s no record of notable controller resignations either. Controllers tend to remain because:
• It’s a highly specialized career requiring years of FAA training.
• Jobs are hard to replace elsewhere with equivalent pay/benefits.
• They receive guaranteed back pay once the shutdown ends.

In summary:

While morale dropped and short-term absenteeism rose during shutdowns, actual quit rates among air traffic controllers remained extremely low.
 
Half Fast said:
Ain't gettin' better soon. ATC has had a staffing shortage for years. This will crater any hiring in the next few years. Who wants a job where you can be denied pay yet still required to work? And many current controllers will quit and do something else.
Click to expand...
Yea, leaving that $200K/year job with great retirement benefits is no big deal, and besides, with an ATC background there are so many other jobs that the ATC training qualifies for. :rolleyes:
 
geezer said:
Sorry for the counter point of view, but these guys are NOT working for free, their full pay will be paid when the government reopens.
Click to expand...

Yes, but cash flow is an issue. Many people don't have several months of income saved, and even if they do they lose earnings, and possibly pay penalties, by having to tap it.
 
Half Fast said:
You may be right, but I'd appreciate learning your rationale.

People have mortages to pay and brats to feed. Seems to me they'd want to find a more secure income.
Click to expand...
What are they going to do that will make them as much money as they make even if they didn’t get back pay after the shutdown?

It’d probably be a while into a new career before they made up the difference.
 
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