Flight schools and gas pumping

Ed Haywood

Ed Haywood

Final Approach
Joined
Jul 12, 2020
Messages
7,624
Location
Tampa FL
Display Name
Ed
Home Airfield
FD77
Today a young man asked me for help using the pump. Self serve stations can be a bit cantankerous, so I gladly obliged. I told him to get the hose and ladder in place while I grabbed the static grounding cable.

When I handed the ground cable to him, he said "what's this?"

I said "are you a licensed pilot?" He said he was, but he had never fueled a plane before. He is in a big part 141 program.

At first it threw me, but then I snapped out of it and gave him a quick explanation. I'm not certain I saw comprehension.

But holy cow, how is it possible to never be shown how to fuel a plane? Surely that is a cross country teaching point?
 
Had a sport pilot on a first solo ask for help too. He was also the guy that came in straight in for 29 when 11 was active and favorable. Comanche driver on final “is that a plane on opposite end of runway???…going around”

I overflew and let that all settle before landing. But then watched him struggle for 15 minutes before he asked for help.

I had an ATP plane park and leave the plane in front of the pump while they were somewhere in the fbo for 20 minutes. I was able to angle behind and fill up. “sorry, we just had to take a leak”… “ dude, for 20 effing minutes? Don’t leave your plane unattended right in front of the pump next time.”

ATP promptly fires up where he sat blasting me with prop wash. Luckily I had just finished fueling.
 
Figuring out a self-serve pump is part of the "fun" of being a pilot. I think it would make a great candid camera series. There's some "creative" setups in some rural airports. "Where's the pump switch? Oh, on the backside of the whole fuel island. Where'd did the end of the grounding cable go? Hmmm. Where's the switch to the hose reel? Oh, under the reel itself." :D

The last funny one for me had the whole pump, grounding cable, etc. locked behind chain link fencing and gate until your card is approved, after you've said "Yes" to having grounded your aircraft, but before you can get to said grounding cable.
 
mark.staggs said:
Figuring out a self-serve pump is part of the "fun" of being a pilot. I think it would make a great candid camera series. There's some "creative" setups in some rural airports. "Where's the pump switch? Oh, on the backside of the whole fuel island. Where'd did the end of the grounding cable go? Hmmm. Where's the switch to the hose reel? Oh, under the reel itself." :D
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Agreed, and I think it speaks to the value of going cross-country to somewhere other than the usual locations. I suspect that many of these "direct to the airlines!" schools tend to have their students fly to the same airports over and over again. I'd like to see a giant Wheel of Fortune with 100 airports in a 500nm radius and you have to spin it for your cross-country destinations. :D
 
I’d been a pilot for years before getting gas off the truck. The flight school I went to and the club I was in for a short time wanted us to use self-serve, and the only airports I flew to had easy access to self-serve.
 
Both the field that I originally got my private at and the one I fly out of now are full service only. Most students are probably doing wet rentals and in something like a typical 172 they probably wouldn't need to refuel elsewhere even for their required cross country flights if they left with full tanks.

Ideally a good CFI would show their student how to do it at some point but it's not on the ACS and things like that can easily slip through the cracks.
 
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in the Boston MA area, the only airports I used that had self-serve were 5B6 and KBED (the HAFB aeroclub). And really the only reason I used the pump at 5B6 was to get 87 octane instead of 100LL. This was a long way around to say that I guess I had a protected existance when a newly minted private pilot. Everywhere I went had FBOs on the field who were happy to fuel even LBFs/
 
I've long said that CFIs should devote one lesson before the solo XCs to airplane management, for lack of a better term. It could or should be part of the dual XC flights. How to fuel the plane, how to add oil. How to tie the plane down. How not to be an ******* with their prop blast.
 
I learned to fly at a towered airport with no self-serve fuel. My CFI had me fueling from a self-serve pump at another airport on my second flight, and on at least half of the flights thereafter.
 
I always got fuel off a truck during training and for a while after the checkride I planned all my trips to a towered airport with a full service FBO. I think it was here on PoA that I was taught to always be present during fueling (safety reasons), so the first time I ended up at a self-serve pump I just aped what I had been observing so many times. The credit card terminal was new but not very novel.

And I didn't blow up the airport.
 
Dana said:
How not to be an ******* with their prop blast.
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I suspect that any lessons about that will be long forgotten when they move up to larger aircraft and feel entitled to do what ever the f.... er heck they want.
 
I had never fueled an airplane until 2 years after I passed my private checkride (and purchased my C140). The DA40 I had been renting was always topped up and I never flew more than a tank of gas a day.
 
I hate self service and ours has been more than a little cantankerous lately. The grounding wire is missing about 10’. No, it wasn’t me.

But I hate paying extra for full service even more.
 
bflynn said:
I hate self service and ours has been more than a little cantankerous lately.
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I don't like to wait for the truck and am usually fueled up and on my way by the time it shows up. My grandson had to show his instructor how to fuel.....
 
I’m not all that surprised. At many airports, the flight schools have discounted full service and, with back-to-back scheduling, it’s just more efficient. But yeah, you’d think it would be a task on a dual cross country, but it often is not. After all, why refuel a 172 with 5 hours of fuel on board for a 2 hour flight at a higher price? It was easily a decade after I got my private that I refueled an airplane myself.

Along the same lines, though, how about this one…

At KAPA, they have a large area of covered tiedowns. A young woman was having a heck of a time keeping the airplane lined up while pushing the airplane into the space. So I pointed out how selecting a point on the back of the top of the canopy helps more than looking at the ground. She thanked me, laughed, and explained that she trained at a school where the airplanes were in multi-airplane hangars and were pulled out by staff and brought up front (like transient hangar parking). She had never had to park one herself until she came here.
 
I have to admit, until I started flying my own plane (and away from my home base which only had full service) I had never used a self-service pump. There were a number of times it took a minute to figure the system out as it seemed like the kiosks were never the same nor was the switchology to get the system turned on and pumping. The kiosks were especially frustrating: unreadable screens, wonky buttons, card readers that wouldn’t take card A but would take card B but only if you knew the secret of standing on one foot while facing Kitty Hawk and chanting Omni-Omni-TACAN-VOR- Amen. Over the past few years I seem to be running into fewer of these issues but there was a learning curve to be sure. Oh and I knew to ground the plane from the get go, my only problem was getting the reel to not retract while trying to clamp to the plane.
 
Typically my flight school simply topped off the rentals a couple times a day, or whenever requested, from the fuel truck. There wasn’t a convenient self serve pump nearby. My CFI did walk me through how to refuel but I don’t remember actually doing it myself.

I do remember a short XC I did where I intentionally meant to refuel on my own. I figured if I couldn’t get it to work I still had plenty of fuel to get back. I pulled over to the pump and the airport manager walked over and said, “Here, I can get that for you.” Nice guy, quiet airport, and nobody else was there. I thanked him and explained. He then gave me a good lesson, showed me where they stow their ladder, watched me do it, then asked if I wanted to borrow the airport car to head into town for lunch. He brought over the beater crew car and told me not to bother adding gas. It was a former police car, the rear seat had been removed and was just bare floor. But the AC was ice cold on that very hot day.

My current FBO has pumps nearby plus a fuel truck. For rentals you can DIY or ask for a top off from the truck and get charged an extra $5. For this old man, $5 is pretty cheap.
 
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Ed Haywood said:
Today a young man asked me for help using the pump. Self serve stations can be a bit cantankerous, so I gladly obliged. I told him to get the hose and ladder in place while I grabbed the static grounding cable.

When I handed the ground cable to him, he said "what's this?"

I said "are you a licensed pilot?" He said he was, but he had never fueled a plane before. He is in a big part 141 program.

At first it threw me, but then I snapped out of it and gave him a quick explanation. I'm not certain I saw comprehension.

But holy cow, how is it possible to never be shown how to fuel a plane? Surely that is a cross country teaching point?
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I have to admit, I didn't learn self-serve until much after my private. I did my initial training at a Class C airport, back in the mid 90's. I don't know if self serve even existed. Even 30 years later, I still struggle with the hose, pumps, credit card machine, ladder, grounding wire etc.. I am sure someone was amused back when I first tried to figure out how they work, but I could have just as easily made fun of those who struggled with basic ATC communications - which was second nature to me even before my first solo.
 
Honestly, it has been so long since I did my flight training that I can't even remember if I fueled up or not. I suspect I did, since it was a military flying club. I can't see them having line staff, and there was no commercial FBO.

But I could swear that one of the tasks for the long XC was to get fuel. Maybe not an FAA requirement, perhaps a club checklist. This was early 90's. Am I imagining things?
 
For my PPL, we had to re-fuel the plane after every flight at a self-serve pump. Seemed logical to me, as I'd rather not pay someone else to do it.
 
Part of the Pvt curriculum could include a post flight analysis of fuel consumption for any CC lessons and the remaining fuel-on board. Suppose some students would leave the caps off for the next person.....!
 
The flight school I went to, the FBO fueled the planes. So no I wasn't shown how to fuel a plane during training. But I did watch the fuel guys do it and understood ground wire and such after being in the fuel business for 30 years.
When I bought my own plane is when I learned to use my credit card to get fuel. First at my own airport and then at others.

For a short while when instrument training in my own plane, my instructor called he FBO and added my tail number to the flight school account. I did pay for the fuel but at the discounted rate that the school received. I'd call them and they would be there in few minutes to fuel it. Too handy.
After about a month I guess the school owner found out and I was back to paying signature high prices and that was the end of getting fuel at the flight school.
 
Initial Fix said:
It’s not just “big 141” schools. I didn’t learn to use a self pump until well after my private. I don’t remember how many self pumps were around in the 80’s either so it wasn’t something o got to do.
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Ed Haywood said:
Honestly, it has been so long since I did my flight training that I can't even remember if I fueled up or not. I suspect I did, since it was a military flying club. I can't see them having line staff, and there was no commercial FBO.

But I could swear that one of the tasks for the long XC was to get fuel. Maybe not an FAA requirement, perhaps a club checklist. This was early 90's. Am I imagining things?
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I too learned in the 90's
Self-serve pumps weren't a thing back then anywhere that I ever knew about.
I'm pretty sure, though, that I was taught how to do it, but it was more from the context of "make sure the person fueling the plane does it this way..."
but then again I'm mechanically inclined, DIY inclined, and curious I suppose so it might not have been a "lesson" as much as it was me reading or asking questions....
For me it was 100% always by fuel truck.

I think that I remember a few self serve around back in the very late 90's or more likely the early 2000's but not on the transient ramps and FBO's so much. Seems like they would be over by the hangars for the resident aircraft owners to use.... but I'm not sure. When did they become the norm?
 
Huh…

I saw that my post got repeated 4-5 times. I have no idea how that happened.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Today a young man asked me for help using the pump. Self serve stations can be a bit cantankerous, so I gladly obliged. I told him to get the hose and ladder in place while I grabbed the static grounding cable.

When I handed the ground cable to him, he said "what's this?"

I said "are you a licensed pilot?" He said he was, but he had never fueled a plane before. He is in a big part 141 program.

At first it threw me, but then I snapped out of it and gave him a quick explanation. I'm not certain I saw comprehension.

But holy cow, how is it possible to never be shown how to fuel a plane? Surely that is a cross country teaching point?
Click to expand...
I was the same pilot out of my pt61 program. Our flight school had pre filled plastic jerry cans of mogas for our LSAs, so I only ever filled it up at home base like that. Plenty of gas for a PPL xc requirement.

I didn't actually use the fuel pump anywhere else until I had my own airplane. And yeah, early on there were a few pumps where I found someone near by to help. If you're only accustomed to pumping gas from a modern auto gas pump, the procedure (and the sheer variety of different pumps out there) can be a little confusing.

Even now, 6 years and 850 hours later, I'll encounter a pump where it's not totally obvious what I need to do to get the gas flowing.

It is a skill I wish I was taught in training though, would have saved some early on embarrassment!
 
Also would be good for places to teach gas pumping and ramp etiquette. Seen a number of people probably unintentionally be pretty inconsiderate, pumping the gas then walking away and disappearing into the FBO for a half hour. Or pumping gas and then doing a 10 minute ground inspection/sumping while someone else is waiting. Inconsiderate IMHO.
 
StraightnLevel said:
For my PPL, we had to re-fuel the plane after every flight
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When I learned (1970s, Part 141) we were expected to return the plane full. No card reader on the pump though, we just signed for it and the FBO billed the college.

Nobody else has ever fueled any plane I've owned. At most the line guy might hand me the nozzle while I'm standing on the ladder. But most places I fly don't have a line guy.

At one time I lived in NJ, where I could legally pump gas into my plane myself but not my car... :dunno:
 
The little country airport where I did most of my initial training, late 70's. and first job as a CFI, early 80's, just had a cigar box in a drawer where you left your check or cash. You did need to know where the switch was to turn on the pumps, next to the switch for the runway lights. It was that way into the 90's.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Today a young man asked me for help using the pump. Self serve stations can be a bit cantankerous, so I gladly obliged. I told him to get the hose and ladder in place while I grabbed the static grounding cable.

When I handed the ground cable to him, he said "what's this?"

I said "are you a licensed pilot?" He said he was, but he had never fueled a plane before. He is in a big part 141 program.

At first it threw me, but then I snapped out of it and gave him a quick explanation. I'm not certain I saw comprehension.

But holy cow, how is it possible to never be shown how to fuel a plane? Surely that is a cross country teaching point?
Click to expand...
It’s not on the checkride. No need to teach it.
 
Dana said:
When I learned (1970s, Part 141) we were expected to return the plane full. No card reader on the pump though, we just signed for it and the FBO billed the college.

Nobody else has ever fueled any plane I've owned. At most the line guy might hand me the nozzle while I'm standing on the ladder. But most places I fly don't have a line guy.

At one time I lived in NJ, where I could legally pump gas into my plane myself but not my car... :dunno:
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After replacing one of my fuel tanks, I only fuel my plane now. Because of the small scratches around the fill cap I found after a FBO fueled it. And even more important I don't want anyone hanging a fuel nozzle and hose from my filler neck. If you do the filler neck will flex and crack after some time.
The tanks in my N model 172 are crazy expensive now.

Our little airport does have a line person on duty most days that will fuel our plane, full service. They know now who wants to fuel there own plane. But I have been asked many times if I need help.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Today a young man asked me for help using the pump. Self serve stations can be a bit cantankerous, so I gladly obliged. I told him to get the hose and ladder in place while I grabbed the static grounding cable.

When I handed the ground cable to him, he said "what's this?"

I said "are you a licensed pilot?" He said he was, but he had never fueled a plane before. He is in a big part 141 program.

At first it threw me, but then I snapped out of it and gave him a quick explanation. I'm not certain I saw comprehension.

But holy cow, how is it possible to never be shown how to fuel a plane? Surely that is a cross country teaching point?
Click to expand...
I started lessons in 1975 and got my license in 1976, The first self serve pump I saw was in 2019
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Also would be good for places to teach gas pumping and ramp etiquette. Seen a number of people probably unintentionally be pretty inconsiderate, pumping the gas then walking away and disappearing into the FBO for a half hour. Or pumping gas and then doing a 10 minute ground inspection/sumping while someone else is waiting. Inconsiderate IMHO.
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No different than regular gas stations. My truck is diesel. I encountered an EV sitting at the only diesel pump at my preferred station the other day. My preferred station has a Dunkin' in it as almost all of them do around here. There were plenty of actual parking spots.
 
I was trying to remember how I learned to self-fuel a plane. I believe it was when I joined my current club because it's based at the aforementioned 5B6. I don't recall ever being taught when I first started taking lessons in Virginia as my flight school was one of two FBOs so the line guys all handled it.

On one of my first flights taking a friend up after earning my PPL, the plane needed fuel. I pulled the tow bar out of the back, hooked it up and pulled it over to the pump. Started hooking everything up and my friend asked me "do they teach you how to do this stuff in ground school?" I had a realization at that moment...I had never been shown how to do any of what I had just done that I could recall. Just learned by observing, I guess.

Like mentioned above, the Boston area seems devoid of self-serve. Even CQX has a pump that CAN be self-serve but they've not allowed it for quite some time. No extra charge for the fellas to come out and fill up, though. I usually prefer to do that or stop at 5B6 when I take one of our planes out of HYA. I've never once been able to get the local FBO to answer the radio or the phone to send the truck over to the other side of the field.
 
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