Cessna 310 Down in Boca Raton

Nosewheel Van’s RVs parked without a gust lock in a decent wind have gotten damaged rudders. With a free castering nosewheel there is no resistance to stop the rudder from freely swinging with feet off the pedals. Just an example of a plane where a gust lock should be used. The plane doesn’t move until the checklist is complete, and all of the normal and emergency checklists are flow and check instead of read and do.

Controls free and correct is the last step on my Before Taxi checklist, done after flaps and trim are set. And the last thing I do before pulling onto the runway is wipe the controls out again.
 
Ed Haywood said:
These 3 methods are not equal risk.
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This is true. But there is still risk. My RV has a small aluminum rod which locks the rudders and control stick. It can only be installed on the copilot side and sits fairly low in the cockpit. Could be carelessly missed. I normally catch it when checking full movement of control surfaces during my walk around - it has surprised me once or twice.

Doing a takeoff without a thorough CIGAR..(at minimum) check, is very risky. The first letter in CIGAR is controls free. But you could easily have your fuel selector(s) incorrect, or bad trim setting on high powered aircraft, or all the other things that can kill you. But impaired flight controls are a huge one. Absolutely must be checked.

Good discussion.
 
Ed Haywood said:
But I wonder how much of that risk is imagined vs genuine. There are a lot of old wives tales out there.
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Some ten years ago a helicopter decided to hover taxi on the main taxiway, next to about two dozen aircraft.
About half of them got significant control surface damage.
 
RyanB said:
In a situation like this, why can’t asymmetric thrust be used to your advantage? ie., rudder stuck right, reduce right engine power and full power on left engine etc. to assist with control.
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I don’t know. Twins have big rudder. Looks like as the speed decrease he couldn’t hold the wing up. Maybe needed to land at a really high speed.
 
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Ed,
I’d offer an amendment; gust locks *that allow you taxi and takeoff while in place” are stupid.

Designing a gust lock that makes it impossible to start the aircraft while in place avoids all the “was it on the checklist” or “did they use the checklist” debate.
 
bonefishpete said:
New video from ramp show low pass.
Looks to me full cross controls. Can an aileron lift a wing with deflected rudder in a 310?
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I couldn't see the ailerons in the video, just the rudder. But, to answer the question, maybe so. Unless the ailerons where neutral with gear down, full left rudder, both engines running in a skidding left turn.
 
RyanB said:
In a situation like this, why can’t asymmetric thrust be used to your advantage? ie., rudder stuck right, reduce right engine power and full power on left engine etc. to assist with control.
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And how would you land with an engine making full power?
 
Hengelo said:
Ed,
I’d offer an amendment; gust locks *that allow you taxi and takeoff while in place” are stupid.

Designing a gust lock that makes it impossible to start the aircraft while in place avoids all the “was it on the checklist” or “did they use the checklist” debate.
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Yes!

That's why I have no problem with the good old belts around the stick trick. If you manage to take off with that, you probably would have killed yourself tying your shoes eventually.

I'm good with the Cessna pin through the yoke shaft too. Pretty sure you could yank that sucker out in flight if you forgot.

But 2 squares of plywood with a bolt through the hinge gap? Madness.
 
I saw a FB post that made a lot of sense - if you had a failed rudder trim tab actuator, i.e. a bent one, it would potentailly cause this same type of rudder deflection.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I'm good with the Cessna pin through the yoke shaft too. Pretty sure you could yank that sucker out in flight if you forgot.
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I thought these styles killed pilots too, something about force on the elevator in forward motion clamping so hard on the pin it can't be pulled out -- didn't that get a Duke a few years ago?
 
RyanB said:
In a situation like this, why can’t asymmetric thrust be used to your advantage? ie., rudder stuck right, reduce right engine power and full power on left engine etc. to assist with control.
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You can match the thrust to emulate a position where you would WANT the right rudder in your example, i.e., you would "fail" the left engine and use max power on the right (opposite of what you said). Now, suppose the nose gear is cocked to the right and jammed in your scenario. That might(?) screw with the micro switches and prevent the mains from retracting resulting in a dirty configuration and inability to climb much. How do you land with all that power on your right engine, assuming you can get lined up on a field or runway? You'd hope for a stiff crosswind from the left, wouldn't you? That way, as you reduce power on the right engine much of that right rudder might become useful to maintain direction. After watching this video, I don't like your chances. :(
 
Damn, grandfather, father and 17 year old daughter/grandaughter died in this crash. Both the grandfather and father were ME rated.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Boca Raton plane crash victims revealed to be three-generation family

Authorities have identified the three victims who died when a Cessna 310R crashed near Boca Raton Airport on Friday morning, erupting into flames and striking a passing vehicle.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
The 81 yo deceased was apparently a well seasoned aerobatic pilot, with competition accolades to his name. Supposedly president of his local IAC chapter as recently as 2022. As far as conjecture goes, it would probably be safe to say whatever was keeping that thing from rolling over, it was being done by someone with above average proficiency in cross-controlling/non-standard handling. Looked like a valiant effort all the way to the end. Terrible to have son and granddaughter there, I can't imagine the emotional urge to get them on the ground alive. I'm still envious of anybody who is healthy enough at 80 to have an active life sufficient to medically PIC.

Hopefully the forensics of the rudder assembly/flight controls don't disappear with the fire. RIP.
 
Dammit, they were friends of mine. :(

Bob Stark was president of the South Florida IAC chapter for many years. I have spent many a weekend hanging out with him at Sebring.

He was a VERY experienced and skilled pilot. In addition to flying his twin all over the place, he built an unlimited-class composite aerobatic monoplane and competed at the national and international level.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
The 81 yo deceased was apparently a well seasoned aerobatic pilot, with competition accolades to his name. Supposedly president of his local IAC chapter as recently as 2022. As far as conjecture goes, it would probably be safe to say whatever was keeping that thing from rolling over, it was being done by someone with above average proficiency in cross-controlling/non-standard handling. Looked like a valiant effort all the way to the end. Terrible to have son and granddaughter there, I can't imagine the emotional urge to get them on the ground alive. I'm still envious of anybody who is healthy enough at 80 to have an active life sufficient to medically PIC.

Hopefully the forensics of the rudder assembly/flight controls don't disappear with the fire. RIP.
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I think if they had some altitude to work with, they could have brought the plane down and survived, even if they had to ditch in the ocean. Having that failure happen on takeoff, well they did all they could to save the flight. Really hard on me to see that a young girl perished as well. I cannot imagine what the family is going through right now. God bless them.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Dammit, they were friends of mine. :(

Bob Stark was president of the South Florida IAC chapter for many years. I have spent many a weekend hanging out with him at Sebring.

He was a very experienced and skilled pilot. In addition to flying his twin all over the place, he built an unlimited-class composite aerobatic monoplane and competed at the national and international level.
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Very sorry for the loss of your friends.
 
I just read a social media post this morning that allegedly confirms gust lock for what it's worth. Supposedly was at the field with a radio listening to it all happen.

These are the mishaps that scare me. Two pilots, one VERY experienced and somehow still miss something small that turns into disaster.
 
The 310R has a pin-through-yoke control lock for the elevator and ailerons, nothing built in for the rudder. I have had fairly good results with the red Airgizmos lock on the rudder. I have a second one for the RV-14. It’s frustrating to get adjusted at times but does its job pretty well and is hard to miss.

I haven’t tried to taxi the 310 with the rudder lock installed. I’m sure it would at least be noticeable, if not impossible. It seems to me that the rudder pedals turn the rudder directly and the nose wheel through springs or bungees. If the rudder can’t move, it should be impossible to turn the nose wheel from the pedals without breaking the rudder linkage first (and possibly not even then).

The 310 has a large rudder. It would be a hard plane to fly with the thing hard over, or even substantially out of trim. I am not too interested in trying.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Dammit, they were friends of mine. :(

Bob Stark was president of the South Florida IAC chapter for many years. I have spent many a weekend hanging out with him at Sebring.

He was a very experienced and skilled pilot. In addition to flying his twin all over the place, he built an unlimited-class composite aerobatic monoplane and competed at the national and international level.
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Very sorry to hear Ed.
 
KE5BM said:
I just read a social media post this morning that allegedly confirms gust lock for what it's worth. Supposedly was at the field with a radio listening to it all happen.

These are the mishaps that scare me. Two pilots, one VERY experienced and somehow still miss something small that turns into disaster.
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So....how does a gust lock cause the rudder to be deflected to the left after takeoff?
 
In the heat of the moment, I could envision my mind coming to the gust lock conclusion and broadcasting such. We here have the advantage of time and video to come to consider different abnormalities.
 
catmandu said:
In the heat of the moment, I could envision my mind coming to the gust lock conclusion and broadcasting such. We here have the advantage of time and video to come to consider different abnormalities.
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But we have the disadvantage of being much less familiar with his airplane and operating procedures than he was.
 
Fearless Tower said:
So....how does a gust lock cause the rudder to be deflected to the left after takeoff?
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Assuming it was two strips of wood bolted through the hinge, theoretically it could work loose, rotate to the near vertical, and jam between the rudder and a fin on the tailcone. Marked up photo grabbed from Cessna Twin group on Facebook.

Bob was apparently on the radio with people at the airfield, attempting to troubleshoot. He reportedly said it was a jammed rudder, and suspected the gust lock as the cause. Whether he was right or not, that would seem to confirm there was a gust lock in use.

To my previous comment about gust locks being stupid: Bob's airplane was HANGARED at Boca Raton.

gust lock.PNG
 
Hengelo said:
Ed,
I’d offer an amendment; gust locks *that allow you taxi and takeoff while in place” are stupid.

Designing a gust lock that makes it impossible to start the aircraft while in place avoids all the “was it on the checklist” or “did they use the checklist” debate.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

The control lock for my Beech covers the ignition switch, so it’s impossible to insert the key with the lock in place.
 
hindsight2020 said:
The 81 yo deceased was apparently a well seasoned aerobatic pilot, with competition accolades to his name. Supposedly president of his local IAC chapter as recently as 2022. As far as conjecture goes, it would probably be safe to say whatever was keeping that thing from rolling over, it was being done by someone with above average proficiency in cross-controlling/non-standard handling. Looked like a valiant effort all the way to the end. Terrible to have son and granddaughter there, I can't imagine the emotional urge to get them on the ground alive. I'm still envious of anybody who is healthy enough at 80 to have an active life sufficient to medically PIC.

Hopefully the forensics of the rudder assembly/flight controls don't disappear with the fire. RIP.
Click to expand...

I can confirm from personal knowledge his skill and training level was very high. For several years he represented the US Aerobatic team at the World Advanced Championships. While below the Unlimited championships, it is still a very competitive process and quite an achievement, requiring many years of nearly full-time dedication to precision aerobatic flight.

He apparently made at least 8 attempts to line up on the runway, but was not able to make it happen. Boca Raton is about the worst possible scenario for an emergency landing. Single runway closely surrounded on all sides by urban buildup. Zero margin for error. Gotta wonder whether he had enough control to get to the ocean 3 miles the east or the wetlands 8 miles to the west.

boca.PNG
 
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Ed Haywood said:
Dammit, they were friends of mine. :(

Bob Stark was president of the South Florida IAC chapter for many years. I have spent many a weekend hanging out with him at Sebring.

He was a VERY experienced and skilled pilot. In addition to flying his twin all over the place, he built an unlimited-class composite aerobatic monoplane and competed at the national and international level.
Click to expand...


Very sorry, Ed. That sucks. Aviation bites hard sometimes.
 
Half Fast said:
:yeahthat:

The control lock for my Beech covers the ignition switch, so it’s impossible to insert the key with the lock in place.
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If you have the correct one for your plane, the Cessna control lock does that. The one for a 310 covers the master, alternator, and magneto switches (7 switches in all).

But it doesn’t lock the rudder. That has to be done externally.
 
Yeah I know we have the benefit of hindsight and the ultimate outcome, but if i had enough control to move the plane towards water, it's probably the last thing I'd consider.
 
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