YouTube Oshkosh videos taken down of Sunday FISK jam

skyking3286

Pre-takeoff checklist
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skyking3286
I noticed that the YouTube videos individuals have posted that had audio from ATCLive, Flight Tracking and EAA video have all been taken down and removed by user. There was a comment that the videos weren't money making, but I'm guessing that the intellectual property of someone was compromised by putting all that information on one screen. Too bad. It really made for a entertaining video experience as FISK tried to get everyone to turn left and start over. One person did it 23 times before he got in! Sometimes you just wonder about fair use and all that. . .

 
The audio rights would be owned by Dave Pascoe of LiveATC I assume and he doesn’t defend those in any way that I know of.

So the culprit for the DMCA takedown is probably whoever made the radar graphics.

Or... a secret account made by an EAA staffer to kill the bad press with a fake DMCA takedown. Hahahah. Kidding. Kinda.
 
The error that comes up isn’t the DMCA takedown notice. The user simply pulled the video down. The assumption it was a copyright violation may be unfounded but impossible to say.
 
Could have been a DMCA compliant that resulted in a voluntary take down. The whole slew of videos is offline. If you check, only EAA videos are showing up in the feed for EAA AIr Adventure... I remember that they dropped calling it Oshkosh because they couldn't control the IP rights. Curious.
 
If it was them claiming name rights, I’d just be an ass and remove the “EAA Airventure” off the title and re-upload it and tell their lawyers to suck it.

“Oshkosh” would be plenty good enough to find it. :)
 

This link has them live
 
So recording your own flight is now a DMCA/copyright violation? Eff that.
 
That's fine, you just need to be careful not to use Air Adventure or EAA in the title! The videos that were taken down were a composite of EAA, ATC and tracking so we had three parties involved in the rights. Since the feed wasn't an original work, like your flight. . . and you aren't making money off of it. . . you're good to go.
 
The error that comes up isn’t the DMCA takedown notice. The user simply pulled the video down. The assumption it was a copyright violation may be unfounded but impossible to say.
Perhaps someone from EAA contacted the user and simply asked them to be kind and take them down and they did?
 
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Has anyone tried to ask the YT member who originally uploaded the videos? How else will we find out whose rich lawyers threatened to ruin him?
 
The 3 hours of audio from when I was in the hold should surface at some point. I just have to edit it down to just the good bits. And wrap it in my own brand of video love.

I am hoping multiple airplanes had video rolling during that time. With so many planes in the air, there's got to be some. I'll bet lots of batteries died after the 20th lap though.
 
I am hoping multiple airplanes had video rolling during that time. With so many planes in the air, there's got to be some. I'll bet lots of batteries died after the 20th lap though.
I had 3 cameras on the plane (1 under the belly, and 2 inside looking out different windows)

the external camera lasted the whole time until I landed on the green dot.
I can't wait to see the hornets nest on that camera. What I saw in that hold was beyond anything I want to experience again.

I truly feel it was unsafe and I question why I continued on in that mess. I had come from a crazy long distance to get there and the finish line was right there but at the end of the day It was a poor choice to fly in that mess.
 
I truly feel it was unsafe and I question why I continued on in that mess. I had come from a crazy long distance to get there and the finish line was right there but at the end of the day It was a poor choice to fly in that mess.

Can't wait to see it. I'm sure it's a hard choice to make. If you don't land then, don't you risk not having a parking spot at all?
 
I thought last year was bad, but the compacted arrivals this year sounds like it was even worse. I know several people that were waiting it out in Gary and Rockford, it seems as if they all launched at the same moment.

I did not get to watch the Sunday fun from the red barn this year, but listened to it all on LiveATC from the car, driving to Green Bay. It sounds like the real show was at FISK this year.
 
I am so incredibly glad I decided not to go to Oshkosh this year.

We're in the middle of a kitchen remodel and it would have turned into a cluster-you-know-what had I not been here. My Mom's funeral was yesterday, and I'm glad I had not left Sunday so I could be there when she left us. And the weather. And this circus. I most definitely picked the right year to stay home.
 
I was pondering for a future year if it would be wise just to fly into a nearby field like Fond Du Lac and rent a car. I guess you lose being able to say you flew into OSH but it would sure take the stress out of it.
 
That's fine, you just need to be careful not to use Air Adventure or EAA in the title! The videos that were taken down were a composite of EAA, ATC and tracking so we had three parties involved in the rights. Since the feed wasn't an original work, like your flight. . . and you aren't making money off of it. . . you're good to go.
What "rights" were asserted?
 
Good vids. I always miss the circus. I usually fly in on a weekday and arrive around 8-ish, and it's always pretty serene.
 
Holy hell, Bryan! Thanks for posting! What a excrement show! That looked like an accident waiting to happen. I understand this year was worse because of the weather and everyone trying to get in between weather and delays, but man... that made me uncomfortable just to watch!
 
That's fine, you just need to be careful not to use Air Adventure or EAA in the title! The videos that were taken down were a composite of EAA, ATC and tracking so we had three parties involved in the rights. Since the feed wasn't an original work, like your flight. . . and you aren't making money off of it. . . you're good to go.
Reminder - copyright violation is completely separate from monetary compensation. It's why the Disney lawyers make the Microsoft lawyers look like amateurs.
 
Crazy. Airplanes everywhere.

To me is not so much that, it's more to the point @SixPapaCharlie raises in his own video. There's a pivotal difference between a pre-briefed formation flight, and a gaggle of amateurs being told to in-place 90 left towards the same point, in what becomes an unbriefed Tac Wall formation, and dissimilar no less. That's considerably more hazardous than the 100 ship or whatever pre-briefed formation, by orders of magnitude.

You can see airplanes stacked above and below each other's blind spots in that video (many which I'm sure the author never saw until he downloaded the video), and no one is talking to one another (not with any sense of purpose anyways) on air-to-air. All it would have taken is for someone to change stacks between a hi-lo wing combo and smack, confirmed kill for Oshkosh.

Even as a career tac-trainer pilot with more fingertip time than some people have total time on here, I would have absolutely RTB'd early from that mess. No way I entrust my life to the peanut gallery like that. @SixPapaCharlie is right, the priorities for arrival got flipped on this one. You get the amateur conga line in first, and in trail at that (the only formation they can't eff up, though they still do), not the pre-briefed and self-deconflicting formation flights. I understand that from an event value, getting the showy arrivals is of higher importance to the organizers. Them's the breaks.

The RV site is blowing up with threads like this one (some RV driver loitered for 5 HOURS!!) regarding this buffoonery, but the unicorn IMC pirate boogeyman is somehow blasphemy? :rolleyes:
 
To me is not so much that, it's more to the point @SixPapaCharlie raises in his own video. There's a pivotal difference between a pre-briefed formation flight, and a gaggle of amateurs being told to in-place 90 left towards the same point, in what becomes an unbriefed Tac Wall formation, and dissimilar no less. That's considerably more hazardous than the 100 ship or whatever pre-briefed formation, by orders of magnitude.

That's what I was addressing with the comment. Not formation flight, since he wasn't in formation flight. :)
 
To me is not so much that, it's more to the point @SixPapaCharlie raises in his own video. There's a pivotal difference between a pre-briefed formation flight, and a gaggle of amateurs being told to in-place 90 left towards the same point, in what becomes an unbriefed Tac Wall formation, and dissimilar no less. That's considerably more hazardous than the 100 ship or whatever pre-briefed formation, by orders of magnitude.

You can see airplanes stacked above and below each other's blind spots in that video (many which I'm sure the author never saw until he downloaded the video), and no one is talking to one another (not with any sense of purpose anyways) on air-to-air. All it would have taken is for someone to change stacks between a hi-lo wing combo and smack, confirmed kill for Oshkosh.

Even as a career tac-trainer pilot with more fingertip time than some people have total time on here, I would have absolutely RTB'd early from that mess. No way I entrust my life to the peanut gallery like that. @SixPapaCharlie is right, the priorities for arrival got flipped on this one. You get the amateur conga line in first, and in trail at that (the only formation they can't eff up, though they still do), not the pre-briefed and self-deconflicting formation flights. I understand that from an event value, getting the showy arrivals is of higher importance to the organizers. Them's the breaks.

The RV site is blowing up with threads like this one (some RV driver loitered for 5 HOURS!!) regarding this buffoonery, but the unicorn IMC pirate boogeyman is somehow blasphemy? :rolleyes:

You’ve hit upon the key parts but missed a few.

The aircraft at different altitudes going the same direction, are doing it wrong except for the higher speed aircraft, which are stacked high.

The aircraft CROSSING are departures and go-arounds off of 27. They’re stacked LOWER than the inbounds and are climb restricted.

You have to read the NOTAM and understand where everyone is going. The bigger problem the controllers created was sending people to the smaller lake. Too many airplanes to even mention it, they should have been saying to hold at Rush Lake.

As for the mass arrivals, they’re efficient and they’re usually two days before this day. With weather, they were delayed into the busy “amateur” arrival day, and three days worth of aircraft descended on the field in a single day.

They’re considered “controlled” for a loose version of the term, from takeoff until landing. They’re given a specific departure clearance from their staging airport that is usually a direct shot up from the south to land in simultaneous parallel landings on the 36s.

Once launched, they’re coming, and they’re going to maximize the use of four landing zones/two runways for 30-60 minutes. Those runways become unusable for the controllers at FISK.

That means you have two landing surfaces/one runway (9/27) for all of the VFR aircraft circling the two lakes. There’s no physical way for that many aircraft to land on the remaining surfaces. They couldn’t have landed all of those aircraft on all six surfaces, even if they had them, if you ask me.

You hit the real answer in your post, too... if you see three days worth of traffic backed up at the lakes and you’ve gone around the lap 20+ times, you’re better off landing elsewhere and waiting for the insanity to subside. You can do laps if you like, but the FAA wants to give NO indication that you’ve passed FISK and are now under their control.

You’re VFR in a gaggle of airplanes who can’t seem to hold an altitude or airspeed with any sort of precision... you can stay and play tag with them, or just land and wait it out.

The mass arrivals really have nothing to do with it, other than occupying four landing surfaces when they arrive. Two disabled aircraft on any runway will have the exact same traffic effect.

And that happened too, as seen in the nose gear collapse/porpoise video. Closed 9/27 instantly for quite some time. Every time an incident happens, you lose two landing surfaces.

That system and airspace were saturated by three days worth of arrivals attempting to arrive at the same time, that’s really all it was.

It was dead calm on the radio and the controllers sounded downright bored by noon the next day after those who overnighted elsewhere finished arriving.
 
WOW! I listened to that from the comfort of my deck and had to shut it off it was so nerve racking. I turned it on again Monday morning and it sounded just as bad. I am glad you made it there and back safely.
 
@SixPapaCharlie is right, the priorities for arrival got flipped on this one. You get the amateur conga line in first, and in trail at that (the only formation they can't eff up, though they still do), not the pre-briefed and self-deconflicting formation flights. I understand that from an event value, getting the showy arrivals is of higher importance to the organizers.
As someone who has controlled the show for several years (not this one), I completely agree with you and @SixPapaCharlie reference the mass arrivals. On a normal year it's not a big issue. On a year with weather pushing everyone into Sunday as the first real day to get it, they should have changed the mass arrivals time. Give them the last hour or two to get everyone on the ground. Say sorry Bonanzas, Cessna's, Mooney's, etc mother nature changed the plans...you guys are safe on the ground at your staging airports and we are going to clear the sky's for a bit and get ya'll in later today. If you don't like it we'll see ya'll as individuals over the tracks.

Bryan for what it's worth (not much I know) I also agree with you about telling everyone over the tracks to turn left now. That is not good. My opinion (and as I've actually done before) is you tell the people that haven't reached Ripon to enter the hold at Green Lake and everyone else follow the tracks to Fisk and then enter the hold at Rush Lake. Those not in the vicinity of Ripon yet pick a place where you are and hold. Funny...I feel like I read that somewhere as well. Oh yeah...in the NOTAM book.

To reiterate, see my signature line below. :)
 
Personally, I think the only way to space out all the guys that wanted to get into Oshkosh Sunday night would have been to have them hold at Lake Michigan.















All this bad stuff said, there was no bent metal nor traded paint. And it was fun.
 
Personally, I think the only way to space out all the guys that wanted to get into Oshkosh Sunday night would have been to have them hold at Lake Michigan.
All this bad stuff said, there was no bent metal nor traded paint. And it was fun.

They really did need to have a bigger loop than either of the two lakes. Something more like this:
OSHAlt.jpg
when situations like this year happen.
 
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They really did need to have a bigger loop than either of the two lakes. Something more like this:
OSH-Alt.jpg
when situations like this year happen.

Or people needed to divert instead of staying when they heard people complaining of going around 20 times.

A bigger hold really isn’t the answer when they’re all going to be told “no more laps” at the end of the day. It’ll just create more real or simulated fuel emergencies.
 
Or people needed to divert instead of staying when they heard people complaining of going around 20 times.

Yes, that's right. I did exactly zero laps around the holds because I was listening to Fiske approach 20 miles out, heard what a goat rope it was and went to Fond du Lac.

The problem isn't with the procedures, it's with a very special form of "GetThereItis" that prevents many pilots from choosing an alternate.
 
I have to admit, I circled for a while Sunday even though my rational self realized it was hopeless ("but the next one could me me..."). When I hit 5 hours on the clock I diverted. Glad I did, cheap gas, nice accommodations, and the fuel wasn't urgent but it was going to get that way quick.

True story, at one point the guys at FISKE asked if there were any emergencies. I told them I had to pee something fierce...
 
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