Which job after military retirement would you choose?

Will Kumley

Will Kumley

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Military retirement is looming in my future, it could be as soon as late 2027 or roughly 3 years later depending on how future jobs pan out. I'm considering a few options for work after retirement from this job and am hopeful some of you can provide insight between becoming an A&P or a CFI.

Some backstory on me.
I'm currently working a desk job but my military background began in avionics and I'm still comfortable working on avionics but also enjoy working on aircraft as a whole. I've done some owner assisted annuals and do a fair amount of the work as long as my mechanic lets me and he's usually pretty good about letting me do something. He knows I'll always ask him for the second opinion and set of eyes and he knows I'm not afraid to say when I've reached my limit on knowledge or skill. Unfortunately, as an avionics tech I may not easily qualify to get credit for the required hours to earn my A&P. There are programs that convert time for us but they primarily focus on other jobs in the Navy and don't consider an avionics tech to have hands on experience with aircraft- although I'd argue we have at least half our time working on the aircraft as we all cross train and help each other out.

I also enjoy teaching and have been an instructor in multiple places/roles in the Navy and also worked as a Motorcycle Safety Foundation certified instructor/ridercoach for many years as a side hustle so the CFI route also has the potential to be something I would enjoy. I have zero desire to fly for an airline.

While both jobs seem to have at least some demand, I want a job that will allow me to get out of the house and make a few extra dollars while not going stir crazy after retiring from the military.

A&P seems to have a higher demand but I don't necessarily want to lock myself into a 9-5 job for all of eternity and if I go the A&P route would probably be selective on how much I work so I can still enjoy retirement.

CFI appears to have more freedom and less initial work to get certified but I wonder how much free time a CFI really has as I remember from my private training days the instructors were all on the schedule if a student booked them. They were all working towards the airline though so I may have more control on my schedule as a CFI.

As a completely unconnected but somewhat related tidbit, my wife and I hope to build either a Sling TSi or Velocity after I retire so I'll be busy at least for a few years after retiring and whatever job I choose to get out of the house will need to allow flexibility so we can get in the sky and go on flights.
 
Retired .mil here; I went into the private sector. If you already have or cam get your A&P complete while still on active duty, that could open an opportunity to do condition inspections on all manner of E/AB. Price out liability insurance though.

Pivot: provide your A&P supervision and guidance for owners wanting to do oil changes, change tires, and the other things an owner can do under their pilot certificate.

If you like avionics work and there’s a market for it, do work like that for EAB guys or part time. Think creatively.
 
I chose the same job I had when I retired from the Air Force. Have you considered working for an avionics repair center?
 
You don't need A&P cert to sign off condition inspections on EAB anymore. You can attend the 2 week course for LRSM cert and sign off condition inspections on EAB owned by anyone so long as they have the current op lims on their airworthiness cert.
Add a little avionics work and or cfi work and that should fill some free time.
 
Will Kumley said:
if I go the A&P route would probably be selective on how much I work so I can still enjoy retirement.
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An A&P with avionics experience is worth their weight in gold. It is the proverbial golden ticket. Even having just an "A" certificate keeps you top shelf. Start now while still in and network with anyone you can on obtaining signed Form 8610-2s which are the documents to take the FAA tests. You have the avionics experience, you just need the ticket to sign off the work and an "A" certificate does that. But having a "P" never hurts either. Forget the rest of the aircraft and concentrate on the avionics side and you'll be able to pick and choose your future path.

Order 8900.1 lists what military experience applies to the 8610-2 issuance.
 
Will, I was pretty much same situation, retiring AVCM. I went to the FSDO in Richmond and got the approval to test for General/Airframe based on being an O-level tron. I would recommend you try that and see how it plays out. I didn't put enough power plant work on my 8610, so was denied that one. There is a Joint Service program you can find, Navy's is run through Pensacola. Here is an FAA overview https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/jsamtcc_faqs.pdf. I'll do some digging and see if I can find more of my paperwork from it. You can use this to complete a power plant if needed. Basically read the FAA PP manual and take chapter quizzes, when done complete a very basic OJT-sign of by applicable rate PO1 or higher, send the completed stuff to P-Cola and receive a certificate, take that to the FSDO and they treat it as a Part 147 completion.
I had planned to go GS at Pax River, but pivoted to now being part owner of a GA shop in Central VA. Feel free to DM if you have questions, be happy to arrange a phone call if desired.
 
Doesn’t sound like retirement. All you are doing is changing jobs.
 
Agree with Bell - Avionics guys are hard to find and can easily get work at any reputable shop. CFI as a free-lance in your spare time on the side - you'll be plenty busy!
 
With your background, you might consider a gig with a defense contractor.

I don’t know the hiring situation today, but when I was at Lockheed Martin we always struggled to find good technicians for our engineering prototype lab. EPL techs needed to be good at troubleshooting, work from rough drawings, and require little direct oversight. We would have loved to have someone with extensive experience with military avionics, and the jobs paid very well. Already having a security clearance would have been icing on the cake.

Several of our EPL techs were temporary part time, hired through job shops. That might fit well with your retirement plans.
 
Most important decision when you retire is location. You get one last full-service move. Anything after that is on you. 90% of my military retired buddies are still living wherever they were on day 1 of retirement.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I chose the same job I had when I retired from the Air Force. Have you considered working for an avionics repair center?
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thats a possibility that I hadn't completely considered. To be fair, I haven't officially touched avionics in the Navy for about 8 years, but I feel like it would be easy to get back into and I've made a few wire harnesses for avionics installs recently.
 
Tom J said:
Will, I was pretty much same situation, retiring AVCM. I went to the FSDO in Richmond and got the approval to test for General/Airframe based on being an O-level tron. I would recommend you try that and see how it plays out. I didn't put enough power plant work on my 8610, so was denied that one. There is a Joint Service program you can find, Navy's is run through Pensacola. Here is an FAA overview https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/jsamtcc_faqs.pdf. I'll do some digging and see if I can find more of my paperwork from it. You can use this to complete a power plant if needed. Basically read the FAA PP manual and take chapter quizzes, when done complete a very basic OJT-sign of by applicable rate PO1 or higher, send the completed stuff to P-Cola and receive a certificate, take that to the FSDO and they treat it as a Part 147 completion.
I had planned to go GS at Pax River, but pivoted to now being part owner of a GA shop in Central VA. Feel free to DM if you have questions, be happy to arrange a phone call if desired.
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Might be a little difficult for me to get any sign offs currently as I'm a quitter and went the CMC route about 8 years ago. Currently not at a job near a squadron but if I can weasel my way into a job close to a squadron it could be possible. As a positive note, I have O-level experience with both fixed and rotary wing aircraft and had my SFF so that might help give me some street cred when I ask for sign offs.
 
Retired (non military) and also in A&P school. 1) Demand for A&P's is great - you can do aviation work as well as manufacturing, heck even Disney Land. Anyplace with complex machinery, robotics, etc. They all crave A&P's. Demand is so great you have great latitude in setting your conditions.
2) Military experience takes you to the front of the class; actually, out of it. You should get authorized to take the tests, get your license. 3) Avionics A&P? Yikes - I'm surprised you're not getting cold calls asking you to come work for them.

Want to just work part time at a small airport? Any avionics repair station will hire you. Want to work for Delta? You're hired full time. Want to work for Delta less than full time? They'll hire you as a contractor; what are your terms?
 
My experience as a CFI was you are subject to the whims of students, weather and airplanes, so you'll put off a trip or a project and set a side a day to teach and find you are cancelled and out of work. Lack of control of time and finances. I have about 800 hours primary given, 1200 total instruction given and after a while you don't look forward to the same thing. Plus, you don't know it at first, but you really don't know that much more than the students. You need some time flying chicks and checks in run-down piston twins first, then you have experience and wisdom to impart. The students all just want to get through with minimum time and after a while that's what you want for them, too.
Do you want control? CFI not the route. It might be steady at some places, but you're a no-show away from a wasted half day.
Do you want steady income but not full-time work? Avionics guy 3-4 days a week at the right shop could fit in.
Set-up on your own? Probably not because of developing a clientelle and insurance.
It's really about what you want to do, there are plenty of jobs that will support that. That's the hard part - knowing what you really want. We can't help you with that, all the answers you'll get here are what somebody else thinks they'd have wanted.
 
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Move to Florida and work part time aircraft maintenance or avionics.
 
Sounds like he’d fit right in at Rough River…….
 
I’m a retired A&P. First of all unless you plan on splitting the case on an engine you don’t need the Power-plant rating. Get your Airframe while you are still in service.

Since you are comfortable with avionics, look around for a way to keep yourself busy with avionics upgrades. It’s easy to drop 30k on an IFR upgrade.

I paid my local shop 5k just to custom make the wiring harness on my RV7. It’s not your usual setup and I mounted all of the boxes remotely under the dash.

If you have the skills, you can make your own hours, keep yourself busy and make some serious money.

EDIT: I talked with my avionics shop about your question. As an airframe mechanic you can do minor alterations. Major alterations require either an IA or a repair station to sign off on the 337. You’ll have to do more research as to what the FAA has designated minor vs major alterations for certified aircraft because apparently it’s not in the far’s, and none of that applies to experimental aircraft.
 
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We need more qualified teachers for the A&P and avionics programs taught at the community colleges, adult education, and trade tech schools..

Just saying....

If it were me, I would go with the avionics route... cleaner work...
 
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Navy AT get your GROL FCC license before you get out. Military experience the FAA goes by your NEC, avionics tech AT does not qualify for A or P. Years ago the Navy had flying clubs that you could get the experience for the A&P, their all long gone now.
 
Not necessarily true that AT's can't get authorized A or P. I was authorized A as an AT/AV, no issues, just bring your training docs to prove you have the ability. You are mostly correct about flying clubs for the Navy, only Jacksonville, FL and Millington, TN have them now-Pax River closed last year.
 
Retired Navy here. I started out after leaving active duty with a real estate broker. I got my realtor license and did a few open houses, wrote up a couple of broker price opinions. I also took over and closed a listing that another realtor didn't really want because it was too far up river for her to drive. But, the market at that time was just not very kind to a brand new wannabe realtor with 2 kids in high school.

I next got a job selling digital copiers and fax machines B-to-B for a big name national company. The money was good if you hustled hard enough. But, that lasted only about 6 months before I decided to move on. I'll just say I like solving problems and really hate the "always be closing - what happens after is someone else's problem" mentality of their style high-pressure sales. That big name company doesn't exist today - enough said.

When I left the sales job, I already had a foot in the door at a big aircraft repair depot. I started out in the avionics shop doing what the avionics/electrical guys do for the heavy "C" checks on Southwest and Alaska 737s. I also got farmed out to the United 777 line and even picked up some overtime on the mod line working on BBJs and Bombardiers. That lasted until a week after 9/11. Then I got laid off, and then recalled 3 months later. Then I got laid off again.

I got in a bad car wreck when a woman, high on drugs and alcohol pulled out in front of me and I couldn't stop. I hit her car so hard I knocked both of her front wheels off the spindles and my little Accord looked like an accordion. I took the insurance settlement from that and went back to college to become a medical imaging technologist (Xray tech). I spent the next 15 years working in the ER at a big trauma center, doing Xray and Cat Scan.

I'm telling you all this because I want you to know that it is pretty damn common for a career change like this to go through a couple of false starts. It helps to have your family situation stable and be in decent financial shape. But, its still a huge life change for you, your wife, and your kids.

Oh yeah, my last assignment in the Navy : Career Information Program Manager and Transition Assistance Program Coordinator. I guess I was my worst student!
 
Retired USAF here...

First, pick your location.

Second, build your plane.

Third, move to the location you realize you should have gone to first.

Fourth, trick your panel out with the latest Garmin/Avidyne/whatever. That becomes your flying showroom.

Fifth, move to your final location, which is near a field without an avionics shop, or one with an older owner who is ready to retire, retire.

Sixth, struggle to find good young technicians to work for you.

Seriously ... pick location first. Second ... good avionics shops will always be in demand. Good luck.
 
.mil "retirement" was always understood to be a misnomer, VA rating grift notwithstanding. The amount never struck me as enough to fully retire on, except for the occassional flag officer with the O-9/O-10 bump; though I could probably swing my own retirement at 55 on plain jane O-7 money/30 years if in such a position.

I don't know what paygrade the OP is at; I know for my household at O-5 (no 100% VA shtick here), it's just not enough. People also miscontrue the 50% thing in the military. First of all, that's gone with 2018 accessions (BRS, multiplier is no longer 2.5%). But even in the classic system, people's full monthly pay is not allowable in the calculation. It's a sizeable paycut. For some of us with specialty pay, the amount excluded from the calculation makes the benefit number closer to a 35% pension effective, compared to the marketing number. Sure, that pays the mortgage and one proverbial run of groceries (post-2020 M2 cost basis), but not much else.

Agree with the comments about figuring out the location first. I'm in a similar timeline (2028), and that's why I just stopped musing about what the heck I'm gonna do. No point until I figure the location first. In our case, I'm leaning on the wife to take a more primary breadwinner role, so location we actually want to live long term will be a concurrent requirement to her job considerations.

I'll be honest, career change in middle age has quickly turned into not my version of a good time. In a different universe I'd pick a career I could do legit body-wise to 55, then retire full nut at that point. And say it with me: Username Checks! :thumbsup::biggrin:
 
I can't speak to aviation jobs at all, or military service. But... Some government jobs, state or local, may recognize military service as years of service in their service after some sort of vetting period. So if you're looking for full time and a few years, that might be a big benefit. Maybe some US government jobs do the same thing, I'm not sure. Have had a few friends who retired military and in the past took jobs at the local arsenal, or in NY state service in part to get that retirement boost later.

Oh, and congrats on retirement!
 
Albany Tom said:
I can't speak to aviation jobs at all, or military service. But... Some government jobs, state or local, may recognize military service as years of service in their service after some sort of vetting period. So if you're looking for full time and a few years, that might be a big benefit. Maybe some US government jobs do the same thing, I'm not sure. Have had a few friends who retired military and in the past took jobs at the local arsenal, or in NY state service in part to get that retirement boost later.

Oh, and congrats on retirement!
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For federal, FERS system you can buy in your years of active duty time, but you can't double dip. Given that non-ATC/LEO FERS is a joke compared to the old military multiplier (0 fee vesting for 2.5% for AD, versus whopping 4.4% fee for 1% for FERS), it doesn't pay to forego an active duty pension to buy into the federal one.

Now, if you're a Reservist and you do the math and are not gonna make it to an active retirement or don't want to, you can legally double dip on that active duty time, while generally still being able to draw the reserve retirement at 60, which still uses the same active duty time you bought for FERS. It's not cheap though, it's like 3%
of basic pay for the amount of years you're trying to buy. Better hope you live a long time lol.

Jest aside, having a mil retirement and a civil service retirement is the most common play for most retirees outside the flying world. If I was interested in working FT for more than 10 years post .mil, that would be the obvious play, as I would have enough time to dip into attempting to vest into a second career's retirement.
 
hindsight2020 said:
.mil "retirement" was always understood to be a misnomer, VA rating grift notwithstanding. The amount never struck me as enough to fully retire on, except for the occassional flag officer with the O-9/O-10 bump; though I could probably swing my own retirement at 55 on plain jane O-7 money/30 years if in such a position.

I don't know what paygrade the OP is at; I know for my household at O-5 (no 100% VA shtick here), it's just not enough. People also miscontrue the 50% thing in the military. First of all, that's gone with 2018 accessions (BRS, multiplier is no longer 2.5%). But even in the classic system, people's full monthly pay is not allowable in the calculation. It's a sizeable paycut. For some of us with specialty pay, the amount excluded from the calculation makes the benefit number closer to a 35% pension effective, compared to the marketing number. Sure, that pays the mortgage and one proverbial run of groceries (post-2020 M2 cost basis), but not much else.

Agree with the comments about figuring out the location first. I'm in a similar timeline (2028), and that's why I just stopped musing about what the heck I'm gonna do. No point until I figure the location first. In our case, I'm leaning on the wife to take a more primary breadwinner role, so location we actually want to live long term will be a concurrent requirement to her job considerations.

I'll be honest, career change in middle age has quickly turned into not my version of a good time. In a different universe I'd pick a career I could do legit body-wise to 55, then retire full nut at that point. And say it with me: Username Checks! :thumbsup::biggrin:
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Yeah you're spot on. If I hang it up and retire in early 2028 when I hit 20, no way I could live off the O-5 pension. Or an O-6 pension were I to continue and get promoted and then hang around until 25 yrs for high-3 purposes. I think it's like what, maybe a $20k bump, if that? I look at it as fun money that I won't make any big financial plans around.....similar to SS, should we be so lucky to receive anything from that. For the active retirees (can't remember if you are one), I suppose that is a much bigger financial planning incentive paired with TFL, but for me as a reservist now, I'll believe it when 1) I live to that point, and 2) this country still exists. My gray area won't be quite as long as some, but it is still a lot of time.
 
35 AoA said:
For the active retirees (can't remember if you are one), I suppose that is a much bigger financial planning incentive paired with TFL, but for me as a reservist now, I'll believe it when 1) I live to that point, and 2) this country still exists. My gray area won't be quite as long as some, but it is still a lot of time.
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On the bolded: not yet, but I will be. I happen to be in the relatively weird position of never been AD, but will draw an AD pension. I'll spare you the PCARS math, but the short version is my life has been a series of naive hail marys and swing-and-a-misses, lore which is the orgin story for my username. In practice, my career has for all intents and purposes been just "active duty with extra steps".

To your last point: No, I don't share your pessimism on the military pension, whether in active or reserve retirement forms. Ditto for SS. Sure, as a millennial I'm prepared to deal with a means-tested-reduced SS payout given my wage history bracket, but I don't fear it going away. And I specifically don't fear the elimination of SS outright for reasons I can't get into here without derailing the thread.

Just wanted to clarify that yes, my primary motivator for chasing an active retirement was "Medicare at 48", not the pension. There's a couple of reasons for that, which I'll digress on here for brevity.
 
hindsight2020 said:
On the bolded: not yet, but I will be. I happen to be in the relatively weird position of never been AD, but will draw an AD pension. I'll spare you the PCARS math, but the short version is my life has been a series of naive hail marys and swing-and-a-misses, lore which is the orgin story for my username. In practice, my career has for all intents and purposes been just "active duty with extra steps".

To your last point: No, I don't share your pessimism on the military pension, whether in active or reserve retirement forms. Ditto for SS. Sure, as a millennial I'm prepared to deal with a means-tested-reduced SS payout given my wage history bracket, but I don't fear it going away. And I specifically don't fear the elimination of SS outright for reasons I can't get into here without derailing the thread.

Just wanted to clarify that yes, my primary motivator for chasing an active retirement was "Medicare at 48", not the pension. There's a couple of reasons for that, which I'll digress on here for brevity.
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Hah i mean I’m not that super worried about my second/last point, I’m just not going to rule it out when it comes to life planning. But then again, if those things happened, there’s probably bigger things to worry about that aren’t really “plan-able” in terms of finances unless you are maybe a gold hoarder or something :)

Nice, the AD retirement thing is awesome. I wish the Navy wasn’t so institutionally opposed to converting our reservists to one. It is not uncommon to file a waiver on our side, when you get close to sanctuary, as a requirement to take any orders that might put you over. I honestly dont know if the individual services fund the pensions of their own retirees, or if it is broadly just DoW. But we really act like it is our money and we need to be stingy with it.
 
I could have retired at 20 last year but found a nice corner of AFRC with good family quality of life and able to keep flying. Took another set of full time orders out to 2029.

When I do hang it up, I’m hoping to do something honorable, like playing piano in a house of ill repute. Anyone know if there is Skill Bridge for that?

hindsight2020 said:
… I'll digress on here for brevity.
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Who are you and what have you done with Hindsight?
 
35 AoA said:
Hah i mean I’m not that super worried about my second/last point, I’m just not going to rule it out when it comes to life planning. But then again, if those things happened, there’s probably bigger things to worry about that aren’t really “plan-able” in terms of finances unless you are maybe a gold hoarder or something :)

Nice, the AD retirement thing is awesome. I wish the Navy wasn’t so institutionally opposed to converting our reservists to one. It is not uncommon to file a waiver on our side, when you get close to sanctuary, as a requirement to take any orders that might put you over. I honestly dont know if the individual services fund the pensions of their own retirees, or if it is broadly just DoW. But we really act like it is our money and we need to be stingy with it.
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If those things happen there will be free guns lying around.
 
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