What legal weirdness is this?

denverpilot

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DenverPilot
Shell station.

They seem awfully intent on telling you the diesel isn’t a Shell product in a city where all of the gas comes from one refinery anyway, so none of the gas at any pump is a “Shell product”. Ever.

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(The gasoline pumps are not so labeled.)
 
All fuels are fungible. Shell just puts their additive into the truck or tank when they pull their share of gasoline off the main pipeline. For some reason, they must not do the same with diesel at this location (for reasons of proximity, contract, whatever).
 
Just means that the station is not getting their diesel from Shell's distribution system.
 
Just means that the station is not getting their diesel from Shell's distribution system.

Shell has no distribution system in Denver. Not for their diesel nor their gas. All Denver Shell stations are rebranded Texaco stations unless they were built after that buyout.

There’s one refinery and a tiny gasoline pipeline from another. That one refinery goes down, Denver is in a world of hurt and a lot of trucks are rolling if they can find enough of them and enough drivers for them.
 
Clueless. Did it look new or like it had been there a while? If I let my imagination run wild, maybe it's some leftover from an old trademark issue or from one of the Shell boycotts which have popped up from time to time.
 
Clueless. Did it look new or like it had been there a while? If I let my imagination run wild, maybe it's some leftover from an old trademark issue or from one of the Shell boycotts which have popped up from time to time.

Pumps are fairly recently renovated looking for lack of a better way to put it, but the station has been there under the Shell brand for a long time.

It’s not really as close to work as another station I usually go to, just happens to be on the way home and next to the Burger King I ate a chicken sandwich at. Ha. So not there very often.

It’s also the last station conveniently located if I decide I forgot to pee before leaving work, too, just prior to about an hour of driving. Haha.

But I don’t usually gaze at the pumps on that particular “mission”. LOL. :)

I did notice that it didn’t look like new stickers slapped on top of old or just stickers for the warning itself on top of their usual livery on the pumps though.

I was just trying to think of a scenario where the lawyer is standing in the court saying, “Clearly we warned the plaintiff that was not our product at our pump!” I can’t imagine if they allowed bad diesel to flow from those pumps and destroyed someone’s engine that a sticker that says, “We didn’t make it!” on the pump would save them.

If that’s the case, I’m just going to start putting “FAA material, not mine!” in every pilot’s logbook that I sign. Hahaha. “I warned you I didn’t come up with that stuff I taught you!” LOL LOL LOL. Right...
 
If it's a trademark related reason, guessing it was part of the deal, either when the Shell company store or, more likely, franchise put in non-Shell-branded diesel pumps or when the buyout took place.

Still just a WAG. Educated WAG (definitely an oxymoron) but a WAG nonetheless. :)
 
Nate: It just means that they are not buying diesel blended to Shell's formula. Shell probably uses one or more jobbers in the area to blend and deliver their fuels. The fuel that is labeled as being "Shell" could have come from any company's refinery that is on the pipeline network that the jobber has access to. As an example, G&S Oil in Englewood, blends for Shell, ExxonMobil, Sinclair, Phillips 66 and Conoco. They buy their base stock from whomever is on the pipeline they are on and make it the particular brand when they insert the specific additive packages prior to delivery.
 
Pumps are fairly recently renovated looking for lack of a better way to put it, but the station has been there under the Shell brand for a long time.

It’s not really as close to work as another station I usually go to, just happens to be on the way home and next to the Burger King I ate a chicken sandwich at. Ha. So not there very often.

It’s also the last station conveniently located if I decide I forgot to pee before leaving work, too, just prior to about an hour of driving. Haha.

But I don’t usually gaze at the pumps on that particular “mission”. LOL. :)

I did notice that it didn’t look like new stickers slapped on top of old or just stickers for the warning itself on top of their usual livery on the pumps though.

I was just trying to think of a scenario where the lawyer is standing in the court saying, “Clearly we warned the plaintiff that was not our product at our pump!” I can’t imagine if they allowed bad diesel to flow from those pumps and destroyed someone’s engine that a sticker that says, “We didn’t make it!” on the pump would save them.

If that’s the case, I’m just going to start putting “FAA material, not mine!” in every pilot’s logbook that I sign. Hahaha. “I warned you I didn’t come up with that stuff I taught you!” LOL LOL LOL. Right...

You remind me of me. Totally overthinking random stuff.
 
All fuels are fungible. Shell just puts their additive into the truck or tank when they pull their share of gasoline off the main pipeline. For some reason, they must not do the same with diesel at this location (for reasons of proximity, contract, whatever).
This is the right answer. A friend of mine used to work for a fuel supplier. They got all their gas from the same pipeline, then put individual brand additives in individual tanks with the correct logo. The tank labeled "Shell" go the Shell additives. The tank labeled "BP" got the BP additives and so on. If it doesn't get their brand specific additives, it doesn't get their branded logo.
 
This is the right answer. A friend of mine used to work for a fuel supplier. They got all their gas from the same pipeline, then put individual brand additives in individual tanks with the correct logo. The tank labeled "Shell" go the Shell additives. The tank labeled "BP" got the BP additives and so on. If it doesn't get their brand specific additives, it doesn't get their branded logo.
So the question becomes:
How much of a differentiator is the additive package?
 
So the question becomes:
How much of a differentiator is the additive package?

The vehicles don’t seem to care, and when they’re going 200,000 miles with no fuel system related or fuel quality related problems, methinks some lawyer somewhere in the bowels of Shell, is really damn bored.

Especially since it’s not going to do them a lick of good if they deliver bad fuel to customers.

The additive package is something like a quart for 8000 gallons. It’s not much.

But then again, this *is* Shell, after all, who sued everyone in sight in the early to mid-90s, over any advertising claims of anything about fuel quality or effects of additives.

They did that even while they ran ads saying fuels in the relatively new to the UK at the time, grocery store pumps, were inferior because they didn’t have an additive package.

And they still tout “Techron” today, which is added to almost every fuel or fuel system cleaner out there now, as a simple detergent, and is added to their station fuel in incredibly tiny amounts.

Probably the same lawyers from 1994 that have nothing better to do, now. I remember when Shell got Texaco’s ads about their nearly identical detergent “System3” yanked from UK TV via censure because “no standard test is available to substantiate Texaco’s claim of cleaning a combustion chamber”...

Silly Shell.
 
I suspect it's an issue with Shell not wanting their trademarks used when dealing with non-Shell products more than anything else.
 
Shell has discount and refuel rebate programs in place on their fuel. They are telling you that promotion does not apply at that station on diesel.
 
Exxon did this many years ago but only with their 87 octane fuel.
 
Shell has discount and refuel rebate programs in place on their fuel. They are telling you that promotion does not apply at that station on diesel.

An interesting theory. I actually have a way to get a discount at Shell through a local grocery partnership. I’ll have to see if it works at a diesel pump so-labeled. I believe it has before.
 
I just add a bottle of Cascade dish washing detergent to my tank.



Because Cascade doesn't leave spots.....

Coke seems to work well too, been adding a bottle to every refill for years.
 
I make an effort to run primarily fuel that meets the “Top Tier” additive standards. The less carbon buildup I have in my ecoboost, the better off it is.

Many fuel brands meet this standard but not all. In my area, Shell is most convenient to me. All of their gasoline grades meet the top tier standard. Casey’s acquired most other local gas stations and they do not participate in the top tier standard, as as a result, I do not buy their gas.

There is real evidence of substantially less carbon buildup with top tier vs non top tier. Google will turn all that up easily.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline
 
Aww man. Went to the closest Shell station to test out Clip’s theory since I was in town anyway.

Skunked. Oh well. This station doesn’t have the labels.

Also the pump annoyingly was one of those that only authorizes $75 and Bubba the Dodge was nearly empty. Have to swipe the stupid card twice to fill it. :)

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Only 14.5 MPG this tank. I must have been flogging the diesel the last 400 miles which started months ago... haven’t driven it much lately. That or I recorded something wrong and the next tank will look stellar. :)
 
I’ve heard of and seen the “Top Tier” labeling before @jesse but don’t see too many stations out here participating in it.

Definitely no “Top Tier” labeling at this Shell station. Usually see it at Sinclair stations here.
 
I’ve heard of and seen the “Top Tier” labeling before @jesse but don’t see too many stations out here participating in it.

Definitely no “Top Tier” labeling at this Shell station. Usually see it at Sinclair stations here.

Costco is a Top Tier fuel retailer. Not all locations offer Top Tier diesel and/or B20.

I’ve run it continuously for the last 2 years in my F150. I can’t tell a difference, but I haven’t stuck a dental cam down my plugs, either.

More info here:

https://www.toptiergas.com/
 
Speaking of gas station legal oddities - this station is near me.

No, the prices are not the oddity. This pic was from just weeks before the 2016 inauguration, they are now up to $3.69 for regular now.


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Speaking of gas station legal oddities - this station is near me.

No, the prices are not the oddity. This pic was from just weeks before the 2016 inauguration, they are now up to $3.69 for regular now.


View attachment 65947

Standard oil name with Chevron logo?

If that’s not it, I don’t see it. Other than the perfect ten cent jump between the grades. But you said it wasn’t the prices.

Granted I took about a two second look at it on the iPad.
 
Chevron is a conglomeration of Standard of California, Texaco and Caltex. There may be others, but those three I’m sure of since dad retired from Caltex and Texaco.
 
Cool @slacktide, didn’t know they did that.

Around here we had the mixed Amoco / Standard signage seen in the photo in the comments thread of that article at some Amoco stations. Chevron was rarely seen here.

I ended up spending a lot of time at Chevron’s facility in Walnut Creek out on the other side of the bay in the SF area. They had a teleconferencing system doing very odd things that we finally nailed down to some code issues combined with a weird electrical problem.

Two interesting things from working with them there. They had a huge over-the-road bus sized RV outfitted as one of the first mobile communications and incident command center vehicles I had ever seen in that size. Way before it became popular for every government agency on every other block to own one of the million dollar or more behemoths.

Supposedly they had contacted the military and had gotten permission to use USAF transports to take it places for oil spills, natural disasters that affected company facilities like refineries, etc, etc, etc.

Only problem was, nobody asked how they should distribute the weight inside the thing and balance it. It never met the W&B requirements of any military transport, and the multimillion dollar bus mostly sat parked under an overhang leading to a loading dock at the Walnut Creek facility. Once in a while they’d drive it places for PR events, but if it had to go cross-country, it was driven there. Telecom guys said it hadn’t moved in years other than being parked at a few oil company sponsored golf tournaments. Haha.

Satellite dish on top (this was C-band days for TV uplinks and Ka/Ku was available on top of it also but wasn’t too useful for anything they said, at the time), phone key system/PBX on board, long before Internet was anything but modems but it had a coupe of those, and a couple of PCs... and a satellite and land line fax machine. Mmmmm boy, high tech for the day. Also had a fridge and a storage area for safety gear and small bunked sleeping area...

Anyway, that isn’t as much fun as...

The entire west coast music on hold feed for Chevron corporate offices was fed out of the Walnut Creek facility at the time. They had a bunch of licensed crappy music and once in a while on Friday night working late, since there was a speaker always playing the music on hold audio (usually turned way down, because it was boring) into the telecom raised floor equipment room and another speaker with its own volume in the quieter work/desk area behind the glass that overlooked the switchroom, they’d sneak a few of whatever CD anyone working wanted to listen to into the fancy brand new carousel 6 CD changer (oooooh! High tech back then!).

We are wrapping up one Friday night and I had done some after hours software updates to finish off what turned out to be the last trip there (we weren’t sure if there was still something going on electrically in the building that was causing call quality issues, but we thought it was done and the code update fixed the last bug on that side of things, so I was headed home Saturday morning...)...

One guy wants Jimmy Buffett. Cool, no problem there. He slaps in a multi CD set of two of Jimmy and I don’t even recall what got put in the other four disc slots, but all the licensed “Musak” crap was stacked neatly next to the changer awaiting re-installation and return to corporate boredom on all the phones on the west coast before we left that night.

We’re all talking and finishing up the software update and I’m packing up the tool bag and such, and the manager comes out and says hi and thanks and all the usual “maybe see you someday again, nice to have a beer with you” stuff you say to the Field Engineer... and he goes into the office space on the other side of the glass. The on site engineer for telecom and I go over the notes about the software change, and we are talking and all of a sudden the telecom manager comes running at full speed yelling “Stop the CD player! Stop the CD player!” As he’s running across the raised tile floor.

He’s coming at such a high rate of speed and the CD player is in a rack about six feet behind where my equipment is installed in a fairly open area of the floor, so we just stay out of his way as he runs for it. If we had tried to go over there we would have all had a massive collison as this guy “slid into home plate standing up”. It was an open rack, so he just mashes the eject button and out comes the entire tray and the music stops.

But what we had heard a little bit of right before he got there was good ol’ Jimmy, singing one of his quite popular songs, to all the people on hold throughout almost every Chevron business office in California...

“Whyyyyy, don’t we get drunk, and screw????”

The manager looked at us (it was the senior telecom engineer who wanted Jimmy, and these were all personal music CDs, I think he walked out to his car to get those two...) and we both doubled over laughing realizing the song wasn’t exactly on the first go-around of the chorus... and then he doubled over laughing, too.

And that’s how I was an innocent bystander while Chevron played a song to everyone on hold on the west coast about getting drunk and screwing. LOL.

During that week I also remember seeing my very first play-by-the-hour “laser tag” place in a strip mall along some main drag in Walnut Creek. Brand new tech. Had to strap on a pile of NiCD batteries and the gun was huge... never really saw it again for a couple of years until it became a “big thing” everywhere and kids were all playing it. Didn’t get to go to the one in Walnut Creek, but it was early early tech stuff they had.

They had a big old Sony tube TV in the front window displaying people running around in the dark with these 15 or 20 pound strings of electronic stuff and straps, shooting at each other from behind black painted plywood cut outs and mazes. I watched amazed for a couple of minutes and then had to hop in the rental car and head to the hotel.

Hope those old telecom guys got retired and out of that biz before it went all weird for Chevron and everyone else. Still laugh about the panic look on that manager’s face as he came running across the open raised tile floor and laughing our butts off afterward.

Bought those guys a few more beers and another dinner than we usually did for customers on a site visit that evening before crashing at the hotel to catch a morning flight home out of Oakland. One of the more fun customer site trips in my Field Engineering days. God, the traffic was bad, even back then.
 
Chevron is a conglomeration of Standard of California, Texaco and Caltex. There may be others, but those three I’m sure of since dad retired from Caltex and Texaco.

Mom’s also a Texaco retiree. Started at Western Crude Oil, acquired by Getty, acquired by Texaco as Texaco Trading and Transportation.

Early retirement package after being shuffled off to Chevron in the failed merger, and then the nearly forced merger by the SEC into the arms of Shell... they didn’t want to let her out of Shell’s pipeline division and she definitely didn’t want to be there, so she took the crazy early retirement package and left.

Then she went back into that silly biz making insane money to consult on one of the many disastrous SAP deployments for another six or seven years. Halfway through that the place decided she needed to be a full time employee, so she said sure, as long as they kept paying her consulting rate. LOL.

Because TTTI had such a large Marketing group, we used to joke that under the Christmas tree every year there was always going to be “Texaco crap!!!” (We’d yell it when we opened some...) Playing cards with last year’s logos, golf balls, pens, notepads, whatever was being tossed out of the marketing crap closet at the office for new crap. We joked that maybe even our living room couch secretly had an embroidered Texaco star under the bottom dust flap. LOL.

The one cool thing I have that wasn’t free marketing crap, is I have a fairly complete collection of the big sized die cast airplanes sold at the stations. Most of them still in their storage boxes, but they’ve been out on display before and the boxes kept, then put back in when we had no place to display them. Some of those are pretty cool. Some collectors want certain ones and they’re “kinda” valuable, on and off depending on the year, but they’re not for sale.

I worked for Texaco for a while, too. “College” years. Weren’t allowed to work in the same division as family back then, but was often in the same building somewhere as the pipeline folks, where mom worked. Did pseudo-IT stuff for them and spreadsheets and filing, and all around weird assignments, but had a good time. Was the last place that I ever had to wear a tie. Last place I ever saw a working mainframe terminal actually being used all day by someone, too.

A few mainframe systems in other jobs after that, but never to the extent they were using them for daily work.

Also learned how to tape some folded up paper to the mechanical bell under the keyboard to quiet the damn thing down for office use. Click, thud, click, thud... instead of DING! DING! DING! at any error. Hahaha.

Probably also the place my lifelong coffee addiction started, or at least was continued from my grandparent’s house and their always on percolator and dad’s house with Navy coffee so thick you couldn’t see through it. I still prefer crappy break room (and FBO!) drip coffee to any other. :)
 
Interesting Nate...Dad started at the materials research lab in the Port Arthur refinery in '57 or '58. Moved to Houston in '65 as part of the engineering group. He did design and failure analysis work for all the company refineries and many of the pipelines. Also did some failure analysis for the company tanker fleet when some oddball problems started to show up in the main engines and with props. He transferred to Caltex in '81 and retired as the Chief of Materials in '93.

One huge funny from the Port Arthur days.... The company coastal tankers had been having problems with cracking blades on screws. Being they were single screw ships, it was a big problem. Dad got a call one day asking if the lab could do a failure analysis on a prop and see if they could give some guidance to the prop manufacturer as to why all the failures. Dad told them to send him the prop and he would do a full workup on it. Only problem was Dad didn't know and no one said anything about the size of the prop....A week later he gets a call from the main gate that he has a delivery for the lab. Dad tells security to have them drop it there and he would run by the gate at lunch and get it.... Lots of dead silence on the phone and then some heavy laughter, as the guards tried to explain with straight faces, that Dad's prop was about 15' in diameter and several tons.. :eek: A bit of scrambling and some calls to maintenance and they brought a crane out and off loaded it in one of the parking lots. Dad did his thing with it and shipped it off for repair a week or so later.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if some/all of that gas pump labeling stuff was state law. The folks that run around performing the cal testing audit records and labels too I believe.
 
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