Vent Thread

DavidWhite said:
She said she landed on a closed runway one night in chat.
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That's what I mean, she's been more open about her mistakes. BTW, I thought whatever was said in chat remained in chat.
 
Captain said:
Never mind. I just googled it. Looks delicious!
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Glad to see you are coming around to a much happier menu. :rofl:

Chocolate Pie is next to cleanliness, which everyone knows, is next to godliness.

Right in there, somewhere.
 
Most people are fairly open about their mistakes, however most won't go out of their way to bring attention to them either.

I guess I'm just holding a grudge, she has really irked me in the past.
 
Captain, Ted you both made a couple of good points that I would like to build on.
Ted, like you both my wife and I ride motorcycles. Me, most of my life. My wife started 8 years ago. I would have no part in training her. She took a MSF course and did excellent. She did not drop a bike even one time in the course. Her first bike was a XL1200C. She dropped it 3 weeks after she got it. No damage to her and some bent parts on the bike. I asked her did she know what happened. She did and explained it to me. It was her fault and her's alone. She has been riding 8 years now and rides a Heritage Classic now. Not so much as one scratch. We now mentor each other.

Had she continued to drop it time after time I would hope she would have took a long look at the situation. There is a difference in a setback and not being competent to perform an activity safely. We need to know the difference and be honest about it.

Captain, you may have hit on something. In all of the schools I have attended, if a course was failed the whole course had to be repeated not just the areas you failed in. Never seen a student given the chance to answer just the questions missed. In a lab enviroment if the lab was failed the entire course had to be repeated. With the standard being so low maybe this is the way it should be in aviation. After all we are talking about a 40 hour course with a 20 hour lab. But to be fair it is more common for it to be a 50 hour course with a 25 hour lab.( The analogy I am using is the dual instruction is the 25 hour course, and the solo is the lab part, the second 25 hours, the written and the pratical make up the final exam). When you take the final exams (written and pratical) perhaps you should just get one bite at the apple like in the real world. If you fail either part you re-take the entire course? In a real school is there a maximum time limit for completeing a course? Perhaps in aviation there should be a maximum of some kind.

I am making no suggestions just asking questions. Frankly, the method used to train GA pilots does seem broken but, I am not the one to fix it if it is.
 
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Most new riders drop their bikes in the beginning. Just about every rider I know did, including yours truly. That's why I recommend everyone start on an ugly used non-faired bike.
 
steingar said:
Most new riders drop their bikes in the beginning. Just about every rider I know did, including yours truly. That's why I recommend everyone start on an ugly used non-faired bike.
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My first bike was an OLD Honda 100. remember them?

http://cogandwheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/1972-CL-100.jpg

IIRC, You mixed the oil and gas. It rode me around for a long time. I don't remember dumping it but I do remember some wonderful rides thru the hills and along the river, with my then GF, now my bride.
 
bartmc said:
You should watch "Trailer Park Boys" one of characters claims to be a Calvinist and thus believes in predestination and thus does whatever (usually reckless behavior) he pleases with the explanation of "That's the way she goes"
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A number of people have the concept of predestination and live their lives that way. This does make sense in certain situations. Example:

I am flying on a commercial airliner. No point in worrying, because I'm either going to live or I won't. I'd rather not spend my last nights worrying.

Where it doesn't make sense is in our flying. When we fly, we are in control.

Everskyward said:
She was probably also a lot more current and safe than many other pilots are at 250 hours.
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That is possible, given the fact that a number of people will see their private checkride as the peak of their aviation skill.

Everskyward said:
Exactly. Sara and some others here have been very open about the mistakes they've made. That doesn't mean other people here haven't made mistakes. Everyone has. That includes mistakes in judgment.
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Absolutely. I landed one night in the middle of a thunderstorm. Bad judgement. It was my fault, I got myself into the situation. I learned from it and didn't repeat the mistake.

What I see as a problem is when people talk about poor judgement decisions they made, but don't seem to recognize that it was poor judgement.

ronnieh said:
Had she continued to drop it time after time I would hope she would have took a long look at the situation. There is a difference in a setback and not being competent to perform an activity safely. We need to know the difference and be honest about it.
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Ronnie, I couldn't agree more, and that's been my point.

Captain, you may have hit on something. In all of the schools I have attended, if a course was failed the whole course had to be repeated not just the areas you failed in. Never seen a student given the chance to answer just the questions missed. In a lab enviroment if the lab was failed the entire course had to be repeated. With the standard being so low maybe this is the way it should be in aviation. After all we are talking about a 40 hour course with a 20 hour lab. But to be fair it is more common for it to be a 50 hour course with a 25 hour lab.( The analogy I am using is the dual instruction is the 25 hour course, and the solo is the lab part, the second 25 hours, the written and the pratical make up the final exam). When you take the final exams (written and pratical) perhaps you should just get one bite at the apple like in the real world. If you fail either part you re-take the entire course? In a real school is there a maximum time limit for completeing a course? Perhaps in aviation there should be a maximum of some kind.

I am making no suggestions just asking questions. Frankly, the method used to train GA pilots does seem broken but, I am not the one to fix it if it is.
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This does make an interesting point. I think that overall, the system isn't broken. Like any system, it does have flaws. I'm not sure that having a maximum number of hours required would serve much benefit, per se. There are people who, for various reasons, may take more than 100 hours to get their private. The first student I signed off had 130 hours. He did one of the best checkrides the DPE had seen in some time, but there had been various good reasons for why his training had hiccups. It happens. His judgement was superb and his skill very good. He was certainly better when he got his private than I was when I got mine. Of course, he did have 130 hours to my 42.

There is a good question about the idea of a maximum amount of time, be it years or hours. There is also the question of the items that are more difficult to put in a book and to deal with, such as judgement. This is put in the PTS, but of course is impossible to truly determine. If I believe a pilot has bad judgement, I simply won't sign him or her off, and if I'm recommending this person for whatever task I simply won't recommend him or her. Then again, I would rather have the repercussions of being labeled a jerk than the onus on my conscience of signing someone off for a role I did not feel they were qualified for.
 
Old Geek said:
And maybe there isn't anything but your perception of a problem. You've presented no evidence, that I can see, that a problem exists. You talk about poor judgement and evaluating that on the checkride, yet it seems like poor judgement affects pilots with thousands of hours of experience at least as much as it does newly minted private pilots. Do you really have anything more to go on than your gut feeling here?

The FAA has been using the current system for about 85 years. If you are unhappy with it, file a petition to change it.
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Pretty sure that second part is aimed at me. If so then you are guilty of what you accuse me of...determining 'judgement' by internet posts alone.

And to that end, I don't think you'll find a post on this forum where I spoke at all about Sara's judgement...either positive or negative. I'd love to see the quote if I'm wrong.

btw, If you can't find the quote then that makes my first point pretty painful for you...doesn't it?
 
Captain said:
Never mind. I just googled it. Looks delicious!
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There are at least two forms of chocolate pie. The one that's most commonly called that is pretty much just chocolate pudding in a pie crust and not particularly tasty IMO. The other is usually called "French Silk" consists of a medium to heavy chocolate moose in a pastry pie crust and when properly prepared is to die for.
 
Captain said:
Pretty sure that second part is aimed at me. If so then you are guilty of what you accuse me of...determining 'judgement' by internet posts alone.

And to that end, I don't think you'll find a post on this forum where I spoke at all about Sara's judgement...either positive or negative. I'd love to see the quote if I'm wrong.

btw, If you can't find the quote then that makes my first point pretty painful for you...doesn't it?
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I'm a little confused. I thought sure that you and Denver Pilot were discussing the fact that something was not getting evaluated during the private pilot practical exam. I guess I assumed that the something was judgement. If that something was something else, then please let me know. And I thought the context of all of this was Sara passing her checkride. And if the context was something else, please let me know that as well.
 
No, the conversation had morphed a bit when Denverpilot 'turned the keel' a bit. It went to general principles of check rides and nothing to do with Sara.

I've also said (and meant it) that this whole thread is bigger than Sara. Her circumstance lit the fuse of the topic but for the most part this debate has been about philosophy's larger than her.
 
gismo said:
There are at least two forms of chocolate pie. The one that's most commonly called that is pretty much just chocolate pudding in a pie crust and not particularly tasty IMO. The other is usually called "French Silk" consists of a medium to heavy chocolate moose in a pastry pie crust and when properly prepared is to die for.
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Chocolate moose is my favorite dessert. Mmm... chocolate...

I find that Bork has the best way of making it:

 
Captain said:
I've also said (and meant it) that this whole thread is bigger than Sara. Her circumstance lit the fuse of the topic but for the most part this debate has been about philosophy's larger than her.
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Exactly. And I think it's provoked a good discussion. Those who disagree, well, there are plenty of threads that I don't read on here. They could follow that example...
 
Btw, I freaking LOVE that there is a side discussion about chocolate pie in this thread!

: )

PoA rocks
 
Captain said:
Btw, I freaking LOVE that there is a side discussion about chocolate pie in this thread!
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Yeah, and I'm on a diet, trying to lose a few lbs before my medical this month. Which may explain some of my churlishness.
 
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Well page 8 went down hill.
 
How to "ignore" a user:
1) Click on the user name.
2) In the options menu, select "View Public Profile".
3) In the user profile page, find "User Lists" beneath the users signature and above the "About Me", "Statistics", "Friends", and "Contact Info" tabs.
4) In the "User Lists" drop-down, select "Add to Ignore List".
5) In "Confirm User List Modification, select "Yes".
 
Captain said:
No, the conversation had morphed a bit when Denverpilot 'turned the keel' a bit. It went to general principles of check rides and nothing to do with Sara.

I've also said (and meant it) that this whole thread is bigger than Sara. Her circumstance lit the fuse of the topic but for the most part this debate has been about philosophy's larger than her.
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I daresay it was mostly directed squarely at Sara at first. I "turned the keel" to attempt to find something objective to discuss about the whole thing.

I will probably have something like 75-80 hours of Instrument training time by the time I get that (damn) ticket. I'm looking forward to the judging of that. And the fact that I started training for it in 1992.

(64.2 simulated, and 7.8 actual as of this post - thanks goes to Jesse for the Actual...)

I won't have enough hours in the day to explain how that happened, so judge away. Some of the reasons are in my Butt Freeze thread.

I'll either meet the DPE's standards (which should match the FAA's standards) or I won't. Ticket in my pocket, it's then my responsibility to keep current and safe.

If I fail at that, I'll be dead somewhere and PoA grouches can second-guess it all while my family is at the funeral.

Let's get serious here. Real good people, local people, try to help folks they fear are struggling or dangerous. Tom's recent thread about someone with a sudden cognitive decline is an example of that.

On the Internet, the same people who'd give you the shirt off their backs in person, hop in your airplane and offer an hour or two of their time to see how you're flying, or generally be nice... often aren't. It's strange.
 
AuntPeggy said:
How to "ignore" a user:
1) Click on the user name.
2) In the options menu, select "View Public Profile".
3) In the user profile page, find "User Lists" beneath the users signature and above the "About Me", "Statistics", "Friends", and "Contact Info" tabs.
4) In the "User Lists" drop-down, select "Add to Ignore List".
5) In "Confirm User List Modification, select "Yes".
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And this is aviation related how? :D :D :D
 
DavidWhite said:
Someone with enough hours to be a commercial pilot is nay a rookie. However passing the PP checkride with more hours than that is......different.
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I guess I'm different too, then. So what?

The important thing is to have the skills and judgment to fly safely at all times. Whether it takes 40 hours or 400, what does it matter? Everyone progresses at their own rate. A couple of weeks ago the DPE talked with Sara for a few hours, then flew with her. In the end, the DPE was satisfied that Sara has what it takes to be a safe pilot. Has anyone on this forum been in an airplane with her? Even met her in person? No? Didn't think so.

'Nuff said.
 
azure said:
I guess I'm different too, then. So what?

The important thing is to have the skills and judgment to fly safely at all times. Whether it takes 40 hours or 400, what does it matter? Everyone progresses at their own rate. A couple of weeks ago the DPE talked with Sara for a few hours, then flew with her. In the end, the DPE was satisfied that Sara has what it takes to be a safe pilot. Has anyone on this forum been in an airplane with her? Even met her in person? No? Didn't think so.

'Nuff said.
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Sara made a comment towards me one night in chat right after I had gotten my instrument rating, but didnt have 250 PIC to do Angel Flight. I was talking about PnP and she said "Well, atleast you can only kill dogs"

Azure, you can tell quite a bit about someone from what they post online. I had 185 hours when I took my checkride, but it was because I wasn't old enough to take the ride. I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement, it should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
 
gismo said:
There are at least two forms of chocolate pie. The one that's most commonly called that is pretty much just chocolate pudding in a pie crust and not particularly tasty IMO. The other is usually called "French Silk" consists of a medium to heavy chocolate moose in a pastry pie crust and when properly prepared is to die for.
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You left out the Chocolate pie that is a combination of chocolate pudding and whipped cream, blended together in a pie crust, with chocolate shavings on top.

Just saying.
 
Palmpilot said:
I wonder, how does one acquire the ability to size up other pilots over the Internet without even flying with them?
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Indeed. I find even the FAA checkrides to be suspect. I mostly know private pilots, a handful of commercial pilots, and just a couple of ATPs. The majority of the pilots that I refuse to fly with again are the higher rated ones that are "good sticks", while I'm more comfortable with some lesser rated ones that took multiple shots to get the PPL. Why is that? Being naturally good at something seems to correlate with poor risk assessment and decision making. The "good sticks" have no respect for the airplane and the weather. They're the ones doing loops over ramp area. They're the ones scud running & popping through clouds without a filed flight plan, etc. Let us check those accident reports and see what the leading causes of accidents are... :)
 
Azure, let me make just a couple of comments about your last post. This is not in disagreement, just comments.
They are reasons that some find it a little troubling when the person takes 400 hours to do something that most do in 40-50. I said in an earlier post they are legitimate reasons for this like David pointed out and like I outlined in an earlier post. I was never talking about Sara but the private in general. I made a comment about the elephant in the room which is that they are not much to getting a private license.

The private, is just a starting point for many but, not all. I understand that the private does not have much use in and of itself. In fact I think the sport pilot was introduced for those people that just want to do a few touch and goes and perhaps on a CAVU day go get a hamburger. This is fine with me and the skill level needed is quite low.

Others have asperations of moving on ASAP. They actually want to use an airplane for "something". That something may be a career in flying or perhaps just personal transportation.

The 400 hour student is free to go and do as they wish. Many assume, myself included, that the private will continue to add ratings and get to a point where he can obtain the "something" they are looking for. If it takes 300-400 hours to reach that first little step what are they going to do when they start trying to use the knowledge they should have gained in the period of 50 - 100 hours? In other words the pilot may be pressured to perform as a 400 hour pilot when they are still at the 40 hour level and based on that even at 1000 hours may still be at a normal 150 hour pilot. Some believe this is dangerous. The sport pilot, in part, was to address this problem.

The problem some of us have is there is no safety net for those students that perform at a considerably lower level. Hammer away long enough, anybody can be taught by rote skill how to take off and land an airplane and do a few ground reference manuvers. That does not mean they are solidly on the first rung of the ladder reaching for the next rung. You may only meet minimum standards and just barely have one toe on the first rung.

I and others get accused of being down on rookies or as one said azzhatts (not sure what that is). I can truly say that is not true for me. In my case it is "but by the grace of God". Those of you with a few hundred hours or especially primary students, you just do not have a clue. I have made plenty of mistakes. I hope it has been my training, and judgement that has kept me from bending any sheet metal so far.

Those of you that got the private in a "normal" amount of time and with in a year to 18 months after your private check ride, obtain an instrument rating, I do not worry as much. I look at my own experience and figure if I made it to that first 1000 hours(decades ago but, I do remember) you can too. It is the other students with large hours before they could reach even the lowest rung. The 1000 hour pond is full of alligators and everyone of us that waded through that pond got nipped and chased a little. I hope the "400 hour" student can deal with them also. Do they have the skills, did the instructor have the skills to impart to that student, I do not know. For some of us it causes concern.

This is not condemnation of rookies. Rather it is concern for our fledgeling brothers and sisters. This concern is based on the experience of our journey, a journey you have not taken yet.

To the question on mentoring. The primary phase of instruction is pretty straight forward and quite simple. Either you get it or you don't. Yes, you can have setbacks and need to work an extra hour on certain items but not an extra 40 hours on one task. When that person is solidly on the first rung then I think those that have a lot of the journey behind them can and should reach into their bag of tools (experience) and be willing to give some advice, maybe a little look ahead at the path to be taken, maybe a little preview of the alligators. This is where the mentoring comes in. I am glad to have had some of that and still receive it even now from others.

So, you students and low time private pilots, maybe take a deep breath and consider we may not be azzhatts, or pompous, or down on rookies. It may be actual concern. Just saying.

Ronnie
 
ronnieh said:
Azure, let me make just a couple of comments about your last post. This is not in disagreement, just comments.
They are reasons that some find it a little troubling when the person takes 400 hours to do something that most do in 40-50. I said in an earlier post they are legitimate reasons for this like David pointed out and like I outlined in an earlier post. I was never talking about Sara but the private in general. I made a comment about the elephant in the room which is that they are not much to getting a private license.

The private, is just a starting point for many but, not all. I understand that the private does not have much use in and of itself. In fact I think the sport pilot was introduced for those people that just want to do a few touch and goes and perhaps on a CAVU day go get a hamburger. This is fine with me and the skill level needed is quite low.

Others have asperations of moving on ASAP. They actually want to use an airplane for "something". That something may be a career in flying or perhaps just personal transportation.

The 400 hour student is free to go and do as they wish. Many assume, myself included, that the private will continue to add ratings and get to a point where he can obtain the "something" they are looking for. If it takes 300-400 hours to reach that first little step what are they going to do when they start trying to use the knowledge they should have gained in the period of 50 - 100 hours? In other words the pilot may be pressured to perform as a 400 hour pilot when they are still at the 40 hour level and based on that even at 1000 hours may still be at a normal 150 hour pilot. Some believe this is dangerous. The sport pilot, in part, was to address this problem.

The problem some of us have is there is no safety net for those students that perform at a considerably lower level. Hammer away long enough, anybody can be taught by rote skill how to take off and land an airplane and do a few ground reference manuvers. That does not mean they are solidly on the first rung of the ladder reaching for the next rung. You may only meet minimum standards and just barely have one toe on the first rung.

I and others get accused of being down on rookies or as one said azzhatts (not sure what that is). I can truly say that is not true for me. In my case it is "but by the grace of God". Those of you with a few hundred hours or especially primary students, you just do not have a clue. I have made plenty of mistakes. I hope it has been my training, and judgement that has kept me from bending any sheet metal so far.

Those of you that got the private in a "normal" amount of time and with in a year to 18 months after your private check ride, obtain an instrument rating, I do not worry as much. I look at my own experience and figure if I made it to that first 1000 hours(decades ago but, I do remember) you can too. It is the other students with large hours before they could reach even the lowest rung. The 1000 hour pond is full of alligators and everyone of us that waded through that pond got nipped and chased a little. I hope the "400 hour" student can deal with them also. Do they have the skills, did the instructor have the skills to impart to that student, I do not know. For some of us it causes concern.

This is not condemnation of rookies. Rather it is concern for our fledgeling brothers and sisters. This concern is based on the experience of our journey, a journey you have not taken yet.

To the question on mentoring. The primary phase of instruction is pretty straight forward and quite simple. Either you get it or you don't. Yes, you can have setbacks and need to work an extra hour on certain items but not an extra 40 hours on one task. When that person is solidly on the first rung then I think those that have a lot of the journey behind them can and should reach into their bag of tools (experience) and be willing to give some advice, maybe a little look ahead at the path to be taken, maybe a little preview of the alligators. This is where the mentoring comes in. I am glad to have had some of that and still receive it even now from others.

So, you students and low time private pilots, maybe take a deep breath and consider we may not be azzhatts, or pompous, or down on rookies. It may be actual concern. Just saying.

Ronnie
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Ronnie, with all due respect for your experience and ratings, that post was full of pure conjecture and personal presumption of facts not presented. And as a "rookie" or "student" who doesnt have enough hours for you champions of general aviation to pass judgement on yet, If I found this thread the first time I came here I would head back out the door with the assumption that it was full of overblown egos. However, I have been around long enough to know who the guys and gals are who really know their stuff AND really care about others. none of them are in either of these two threads bashing Sara or noobs. I was the one who used the term azzhats because I would get ejected for sayin a s s h o l e s. either way, a poor choice of words on my part. I stand by the other two references in that post. I would be willing to bet that, few who have posted here, on both sides of the issue, would do the same face to face with each other. I was really gonna sit this one out, but we all have a right to our opinion. And that is what all this is...opinion....flamesuit on---commence firing!
 
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DavidWhite said:
Most people are fairly open about their mistakes, however most won't go out of their way to bring attention to them either.

I guess I'm just holding a grudge, she has really irked me in the past.
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Yeah, and you REALLY need to get over it. Your attitude is, frankly, starting to irk ME.
 
AuntPeggy said:
How to "ignore" a user:
1) Click on the user name.
2) In the options menu, select "View Public Profile".
3) In the user profile page, find "User Lists" beneath the users signature and above the "About Me", "Statistics", "Friends", and "Contact Info" tabs.
4) In the "User Lists" drop-down, select "Add to Ignore List".
5) In "Confirm User List Modification, select "Yes".
Click to expand...

Problem with that is that if that user gets quoted in another post, you can still see it.

I have found that ignoring a user really doesn't work all that well.
 
Mike, if you can quote where I bashed "noobs" or Sara I would like to publically appoligize.

Also, not conjecture. At what point am I and others allowed to make comments based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. I have lost friends in aviation. Good friends. Some were lost due to bad training, some to bad judgement, and others the alligator just got them. I dare say most of us have at least had a good look at the alligators, up close and personal. I sure have. If you are not interested in what people with experience have to say then just ignore it. No flame from me.

I have said nothing I would not say to anyone face to face. In fact I am not that far from Prattville. Perhaps someday we can set down over a cup of coffee. If you are ever up to MSL give me a call. I will PM you my cell number if you want me to.

I do believe when you have a few hundred hours this thread will look different to you. It has been said before on this site, "you do not know what you don't know". This is true for ALL of us.
 
DavidWhite said:
Sara made a comment towards me one night in chat right after I had gotten my instrument rating, but didnt have 250 PIC to do Angel Flight. I was talking about PnP and she said "Well, atleast you can only kill dogs"
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I'm not getting the context there. Did she mean you personally, or that 250 PIC was a good minimum because Angel Flight means responsibility for human lives? If she meant you personally, okay that wasn't a nice thing to say, and you had a right to be ticked off. If she was talking about AF generally, I feel the same way. Personally I enjoy doing PnP flights a lot and feel that the added stress and pressure of being responsible for carrying people in need of medical care would kill the joy of it for me, or worse, push me to make an unsafe PIC decision. But to each their own.

Azure, you can tell quite a bit about someone from what they post online. I had 185 hours when I took my checkride, but it was because I wasn't old enough to take the ride. I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement, it should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
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As with so many things, "it depends". My first point was that the TT hours someone has when they pass the checkride is only one piece of information about them, and there can be many reasons why someone is a high time student. It sounds like you agree. My second point was that even if she posted some things that make us wonder, none of us on this board has enough information to make that case by case call on Sara as a pilot. The DPE did and signed the paperwork. Unless and until she does something to reopen it, I say case closed.
 
ronnieh said:
Mike, if you can quote where I bashed "noobs" or Sara I would like to publically appoligize.

Also, not conjecture. At what point am I and others allowed to make comments based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. I have lost friends in aviation. Good friends. Some were lost due to bad training, some to bad judgement, and others the alligator just got them. I dare say most of us have at least had a good look at the alligators, up close and personal. I sure have. If you are not interested in what people with experience have to say then just ignore it. No flame from me.

I have said nothing I would not say to anyone face to face. In fact I am not that far from Prattville. Perhaps someday we can set down over a cup of coffee. If you are ever up to MSL give me a call. I will PM you my cell number if you want me to.

I do believe when you have a few hundred hours this thread will look different to you. It has been said before on this site, "you do not know what you don't know". This is true for ALL of us.
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Again, I respect your ratings and experience. and Ill bet we would hit it off just fine and I really like coffee. I have lost friends to aviation also for all the above reasons. (just cause i dont have a cert doesnt mean I dont have some knowledge) I will give you "you dont know what you dont know" But I will raise you " I have lost touch with what its like to not know"

I am gonna take this allllll the way back to the beginning, say my peace, then im out. Regardless of how long it took her, She has a cert. A CFI (or two) signified in writing that they believed she was capable. A DPE (or two) tested her to pts standards and she meet those, and said DPE then signified in writing that they believed she was capable. so, for the last time for me, YOU dont know, what you dont know about Sara's flying. And if you have never flown with her, you really dont know much. ALL else is conjecture.

As for her post about helping others, some have said she shouldnt hold herself out as a "mentor" because of low time/extensive training. I say HOGWASH! She has experienced things that I havent. I CAN learn from her. Also, she is WILLING to offer help without condesention.

Lastly, Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who took her post as anyhing other than hyperbole that we ALL use from time to time, is just looking for a cause to champion. Nothing more. Or someone who is employed as a pilot and thinks that a lowly ppl cant say such disparaging things,"and we will bring our pitchforks and rectify this situation"!

I really am done with this thread, its making my head hurt and Im starting feel like the guy in the cartoon arguing on the internet cause its important......geez. when all is said and done, those of you who have put in the hours and hard work for your ratings and jobs, I respect you for that. Ronnie, Cameron, Ted, David and anyone else I missed. I respect you all and would have a beer with you (except David) he is too young. But in this instance I think your wrong. OUT!

Edited to add spaces....I got drunk proofreading without them.
 
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ronnieh said:
Azure, let me make just a couple of comments about your last post. This is not in disagreement, just comments.
They are reasons that some find it a little troubling when the person takes 400 hours to do something that most do in 40-50. I said in an earlier post they are legitimate reasons for this like David pointed out and like I outlined in an earlier post. I was never talking about Sara but the private in general. I made a comment about the elephant in the room which is that they are not much to getting a private license.
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Not much to getting a private license? Probably true, and then again the privileges are limited as well. The bar is much higher than for getting a standard motor vehicle operator license, and a lunatic driver can kill at least as many people as a private pilot in a 172. I've seen a lot of people on the road who really shouldn't be driving. I wouldn't want them in the skies either. What solid evidence do you have that people who shouldn't be flying can get a PPL? The accident record speaks volumes to me about the need for recurrent training, especially scenario-based training focusing on judgement, not that the PPL standards are broken or too lax.

As to the 400 hour or 250 hour student pilot, I mentioned myself because I was one. I think I had 252 point something hours when I went for the checkride. I had 96 some-odd hours before I soloed. Yes the main reason was that my first 3rd class application was deferred and then came the "we are unable to establish your qualifications for medical certification" letter. But I was not a "natural stick" either and it took me probably 40 hours before I was consistent enough in my landings that I could have soloed if I'd had the medical. Today I've been plugging away at the instrument rating for over 2 years, have 70+ hours under the hood, and my written expires in July. If you want to say I'm not cut out for this, you have every right to say it. And I have every right to reject your judgement and listen instead to the opinions of my CFII, the DPE who eventually does my checkride, and other pilots who have actually met me and flown with me.

As does Sara.
 
There's another 5 minutes of my life that I won't get back. :(
 
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