Time to change out a Garmin 430W

DKirkpatrick

DKirkpatrick

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Hello, could I get a good guess as to hours to change out a 530W with a GTN750? Cessna, has a gtx340 audio, no autopilot. Thanks
 
Budget for the same amount of money you spent for the unit in new condition.
 
so the 750 is not remotely a slide in replacement...?
 
The only slide in replacements for the 530W's would be Avidyne IFD540 or 550. Only takes an hour or so, unless you need to add some wiring, like TAWS, to the audio panel. The time is getting the configurations out of the GNS and programming the IFD.
 
I would estimate 5-6 hours to rewire and it can vary from a couple of hours to quite a few hours to remove one tray and install the other because the 750 is much taller than the 430W or 530W. You may need to move other things around.
The audio panel is the GMA340. The GTX units are transponders.
 
The GTNs (750 and 650) vs GNS's use a different way / wiring to transfer data. (Serial to ARINC 429, or something like that). The change was made because the older style used on the GNS's just couldn't handle today's requirements. Downside is that you need to rewire. Upside is that you're going to get a large leap in performance, scalability, etc.

I've flown with the GNS as well as my current GTN. The "easy to use" factor GTN vs GNS is substantial.

I'm biased to Garmin however. It is what I learned to fly on, and I place a high value on a product made by a dominant company that will be around, can support, etc.
 
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If one were to assume that you aren't changing anything but the 530W to a 750, and all the wiring and everything was up to snuff, and there was plenty of space in the panel to make the shifts needed to accommodate the larger unit, probably on the order of 5-8 hours. But that's assuming a mythical panel and prior install. One usually finds all kinds of corners cut, improperly sized power wiring (especially on 14V installs), poor splices, etc. At a minimum you need to de-pin all the connectors from the 530W, change the ends on all the wiring for the COM connector from low density female to high density male pins, rejigger all the power wiring (530 took power input to 2 connectors, the nav and the com, com used special pins on 14V to be able to pin 18ga wiring directly to the connector, and the 750 takes power on 3 connectors, com, nav and gps and uses all high density pins, so various pigtails and splices) , rejigger the nav/gs antenna wiring (530W requires external splitter for separate nav and gs inputs, 750 takes a combined signal, so you might need to add a full signal splitter ahead of any diplexor, or remove the diplexor entirely, etc), move all the stuff in the rack around the 530 to accommodate the larger vertical space requirement, re-backstrap everything, etc. Then transferring all the configuration over, checks, paperwork (AFMS, 337, etc). Generally you get in there and the old wiring is a mess and you end up needing to rewire it all and/or other things are being added/removed and needs new wiring to interface to it. And the low end estimate is assuming you'll find someone willing to do that swap with the original wiring, a lot of places aren't going to want to take responsibility for harnesses they didn't build (certainly can't blame them) and will be a rewire regardless.
 
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i confess not even considering the Avidyne option. I know they're great equipment. thanks
 
DKirkpatrick said:
i confess not even considering the Avidyne option. I know they're great equipment. thanks
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The Avidyne IFD is a great GPS/NAV/COM indeed. My one concern would be if you fly IFR and have (or might have in the future) a Garmin autopilot, then the IFD-GFC combination appears to create occasional surprises that make the GTN a more dependable choice over the IFD. Also, while the IFD is not difficult to learn, the operating philosophy of the GTN aligns closely with the GNS, so it'll be very straightforward for your transition.

- Martin
 
Martin Pauly said:
The Avidyne IFD is a great GPS/NAV/COM indeed. My one concern would be if you fly IFR and have (or might have in the future) a Garmin autopilot, then the IFD-GFC combination appears to create occasional surprises that make the GTN a more dependable choice over the IFD. Also, while the IFD is not difficult to learn, the operating philosophy of the GTN aligns closely with the GNS, so it'll be very straightforward for your transition.

- Martin
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The 5000s are really nice, but I find the 750 to be a really disappointing RNAV with software that really is not very good.
 
Martin Pauly said:
The Avidyne IFD is a great GPS/NAV/COM indeed. My one concern would be if you fly IFR and have (or might have in the future) a Garmin autopilot, then the IFD-GFC combination appears to create occasional surprises that make the GTN a more dependable choice over the IFD. Also, while the IFD is not difficult to learn, the operating philosophy of the GTN aligns closely with the GNS, so it'll be very straightforward for your transition.

- Martin
Click to expand...

Will the slide in feature that enables replacing a GNS-430W with an IFD also include the display of the wind direction and velocity that’s now shown on my 430 (new feature after the install of 2 ea. GI-275’s)?

Also, I’m not a real fan of using the small touch screen buttons on the GI-275’s, especially in turbulence. Do you find the IFD’s larger touch screen finger friendly?

Any comments on the IFD potentially offering any surprises driving a S-Tec 55X as you mention could occur with a new Garmin autopilot?

Any/all opinions are greatly appreciated.
 
Rick A said:
Will the slide in feature that enables replacing a GNS-430W with an IFD also include the display of the wind direction and velocity that’s now shown on my 430 (new feature after the install of 2 ea. GI-275’s)?

Also, I’m not a real fan of using the small touch screen buttons on the GI-275’s, especially in turbulence. Do you find the IFD’s larger touch screen finger friendly?

Any comments on the IFD potentially offering any surprises driving a S-Tec 55X as you mention could occur with a new Garmin autopilot?

Any/all opinions are greatly appreciated.
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We have had an IFD440 since 2019. I dont know about the Wind vectors - we dont have that setup. I can tell you nearly every function on the IFD can be accessed with an actual button or knob. You also have everything available touch screen. It is one of the things I like about the IFD. I find myself using the touch screen on the ground and using the physical buttons and knobs in the air.
 
Jim_CAK said:
I find myself using the touch screen on the ground and using the physical buttons and knobs in the air.
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Ditto for the GTN - I do sometimes forget the knobs are there, but they are handy when you need them.

You asked about compatibility with a Garmin Autopilot (GFC 500?). You also mentioned you have two new GI 275's. If you have two Garmin GI 275s, and are thinking hard about a new Garmin autopilot, I'd lean to a Garmin GTN , a GNC, etc. Reason: Overall compatibility and Scaleability. Garmin products play nice with each other, and are going to be more compatible with other future whatnot Garmins you may want to also add some day.

FWIW - I have a GTN, GNC, two GI 275s, and a GFC 500. Love or hate the corporate Garmin, their products just work well together, and work well overall.
 
WDD said:
Garmin products play nice with each other, and are going to be more compatible with other future whatnot Garmins you may want to also add some day.

FWIW - I have a GTN, GNC, two GI 275s, and a GFC 500. Love or hate the corporate Garmin, their products just work well together, and work well overall.
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I agree! So far I've gone all Garmin for exactly your reasons. The GNS-430 and STec-55X are currently the weak spots on my newly renovated panel. Both installed over 26 years ago. They're great boxes but I've never been a fan of the 430. It has a lot of features I've never used, IMO is not very intuitive, and when I haven't flown in a month or two the 430 is the first casualty of not feeling proficient. For me, flying ILS's are easy and RNAV approaches require (IMO) greater attention properly set up, with more chances of hitting a wrong button and having to reprogram again at a busier time during the approach. Simpler (if the IFD truly is) is better.

After looking into the IFD replacement, the larger screen and the positive accolades here at POA definitely have gotten my attention. All my real low approaches have been ILS, and It's only been in around 10 years ago since the 430 was upgraded with a WAAS motherboard (after the Comm died). Since there are now so many LPV approaches charted I've been been flying them more than ILS's, but never down close to reported minimums. High-intensity lead in lights are very appreciated when the weather is down. An easier and more intuitive GPS navigator would be a welcome addition to the panel for comfort and safety.

Adding a Garmin autopilot will only be seriously considered at some point in the future if and when the S-Tec gets unreliable and too expensive to nurse along (like the previous OEM Century 31)... hopefully never. The first time there was any need to service the 55X was after 24 years of use, and it has been a great system, but it's getting old.

If/when the S-Tec becomes burdensome I'd like reliable compatibility between the IFD (if installed) and a Garmin autopilot, or any other Garmin product in the panel, which right now are the G-275s and GTX345 transponder. Will be talking to the radio shop soon and ask them for their opinion and a rough cost estimate on all this subject. So far they haven't steered me wrong.
 
Clip4 said:
The 5000s are really nice, but I find the 750 to be a really disappointing RNAV with software that really is not very good.
Click to expand...

Not surprised you don't like the GNS-750. A friend has a fairly new 750 which I find it too cluttered, and not very intuitive. Like anything else, if it's frequently flown and very familiar, it would be easier to operate.

Younger pilots grew up with digital electronics. Some of us older folks are not as fast to adapt, and most non-professional pilots don't fly everyday.

Maybe there's a way to clean up and customize the 750's large screen to display what you'd really like to show, and easily view more when you want to. My friend has decluttered and customized it a little, and maybe there's a lot more customization that he could do if he wanted.

I wouldn't consider spending the money necessary to change out the current 430 navigator (which I don't like) then upgrade to a 750. From what I've seen so far it wouldn't be much of an improvement in capability and likability.

Everybody is different in how they process information. In 2001 I didn't know what I didn't know...but know a lot more now of what works for me. Maybe there's a solution (or maybe not). In the meantime the old 430 does everything needed.
 
Rick A said:
Not surprised you don't like the GNS-750. A friend has a fairly new 750 which I find it too cluttered, and not very intuitive. Like anything else, if it's frequently flown and very familiar, it would be easier to operate.

Younger pilots grew up with digital electronics. Some of us older folks are not as fast to adapt, and most non-professional pilots don't fly everyday.

Maybe there's a way to clean up and customize the 750's large screen to display what you'd really like to show, and easily view more when you want to. My friend has decluttered and customized it a little, and maybe there's a lot more customization that he could do if he wanted.

I wouldn't consider spending the money necessary to change out the current 430 navigator (which I don't like) then upgrade to a 750. From what I've seen so far it wouldn't be much of an improvement in capability and likability.

Everybody is different in how they process information. In 2001 I didn't know what I didn't know...but know a lot more now of what works for me. Maybe there's a solution (or maybe not). In the meantime the old 430 does everything needed.
Click to expand...
I fly with both Avi and Garmin. One might suspect a long time GNS430 user would have an easier transition to a new Garmin RNAV vs Avidyne IFD RNAV. This is not my experience.
 
Clip4 said:
I fly with both Avi and Garmin. One might suspect a long time GNS430 user would have an easier transition to a new Garmin RNAV vs Avidyne IFD RNAV. This is not my experience.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you'd think. But without a doubt it's setting up the 430, interfacing with the autopilot, then flying approaches, is my weak link when I haven't flown any instruments in a while.

Today I spoke with a radio shop tech about the IFD slide in replacement. He claims everyone who has swapped the 430 and gone with the IFD has been very pleased with the change. Also no reported issues with interfacing with all Garmin 430 new features like wind velocity and direction, FlightStream (the box is removed, internal on the IFD), traffic, etc. Says they have not had any reliability issues whatsoever.

Food for thought. Now a need to find an IFD to play with and determine if it can be set up, customized and displayed in tune with how my brain interprets information.
 
Is there an IDF simulator for the I Pad / tablet like Garmin has for the GTNs? Great way to play with both and compare.
 
As Jesse stated, the GTN is 6” tall versus the 530w’s 4.6”. We are on the opposite coast - we are installing two right now, and an Avidyne 550.

We are about to swap out an Aspen for a G500H in an R44 - the time all depends on what indicator / HSI/ PfD you have, and of course a little more time if it’s wired to transponders, atom scopes, XM, autopilot etc.

ThePlaneSalon@KCPM
 
Yes Avidyne has a simulator. There are some differences in the two devices, I flew big airplanes, they were FMS based like the avidyne, and I still had a learning curve. Most people use the Garmin, I went with avidyne because of my existing stack and the room. I have a baron that has an avidyne ex 500 for the radar.
 
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