The FBO asked me: "Why are pilots so cheap"

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
2,456
Location
Florida
Display Name
Display name:
FloridaStudentPilot
Well,

I forgot to tell you when I landed in Marathon FL. I asked them how much was the fee for a few nights to park. They gave me a certain look and I asked them what was going on. They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight. I didn't have an answer but I took their side this time. They also went on about how a few pilots came though and didn't want to pay 15 dollars and walked out.

Why are Pilots so cheap?
 
That really isn't unreasonable for transient parking in a decent location. A fuel purchase would probably get one night waived.
 
Some of us just aren't used to paying for parking. I only have when I've gone to tourist destinations. Going from nothing to $15 feels like a lot.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Well,

I forgot to tell you when I landed in Marathon FL. I asked them how much was the fee for a few nights to park. They gave me a certain look and I asked them what was going on. They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight. I didn't have an answer but I took their side this time. They also went on about how a few pilots came though and didn't want to pay 15 dollars and walked out.

Why are Pilots so cheap?
Click to expand...
The correct response to them is "I'm not cheap,I wanted to know the price to decide whether to use the credit card or cash. Why do you assume pilots are cheap?"
 
gsengle said:
Because that's $5,475 a year for parking out in the open with three pieces of rope!
Click to expand...

It looks like the original premise of this thread was correct.

You are assuming a 100% load factor and ignore that the fee doesn't pay just for the 3 rings and a couple of square feet of asphalt but the operation of the entire airport around it.
 
weilke said:
It looks like the original premise of this thread was correct.

You are assuming a 100% load factor and ignore that the fee doesn't pay just for the 3 rings and a couple of square feet of asphalt but the operation of the entire airport around it.
Click to expand...

It may or may not. That said it still seems like a lot of money annualized.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
coloradobluesky said:
Because they've spent all their money on their airplane...
Click to expand...

Too true, and therein lies part the problem. Pilots/aircraft owners need to understand that there are expenses beyond the cost of the plane and putting gas in it to make it run. I've seen far too many guys that buy more airplane than they can realistically own and operate.


As for the original question, $15/night seems reasonable to me, particularly at a popular destination. What we don't know from the original post is if the parking spot was located on a ramp the FBO had to lease from the airport sponsor or not. If it is leased property, the FBO has to pay their monthly rent somehow and this is one of many ways to obtain some revenue. People don't seem to flinch at spending $20/night to park a car in a parking ramp yet they have a fit over $15/night to park their airplane at an airport, which makes no sense to me.

I would have asked what the fee structure was as well, just because I wanted to know what to expect.
 
$15 isn't much. Free is better, but at FBOs with more services, you will find more fees. Most will waive one night with the purchase of fuel. If someone asked me "why pilots are so cheap?" to my face after I simply inquired about their fees, I would had some choice words for them. If they did it after I bitched and moaned about a $15 overnight fee, that would be understandable.

To the original question, "Why are pilots so cheap?" I really don't know, but it is a fact that a lot of pilots that fly around in $100,000 or $200,000 airplanes are cheap as chit. I'm not sure about the jet guys, but I suspect they aren't so bad because they're usually on company funds. I have been embarrassed many times by friends who will go on a lunch run, borrow a car from the FBO, keep it longer than 2 hours, not put any fuel in the tank, and then flat out refuse to buy fuel, and then head home where they can buy fuel for a nickel or dime cheaper. They probably only needed 10 gallons to top off their tanks, and they won't even buy that much from the FBO that just chocked and tied down their plane, gave them water and cookies, loaned them a car, and were generally courteous and helpful. I really don't understand that mentality.
 
pburger said:
$15 isn't much. Free is better, but at FBOs with more services, you will find more fees. Most will waive one night with the purchase of fuel. If someone asked me "why pilots are so cheap?" to my face after I simply inquired about their fees, I would had some choice words for them. If they did it after I bitched and moaned about a $15 overnight fee, that would be understandable.

To the original question, "Why are pilots so cheap?" I really don't know, but it is a fact that a lot of pilots that fly around in $100,000 or $200,000 airplanes are cheap as chit. I'm not sure about the jet guys, but I suspect they aren't so bad because they're usually on company funds. I have been embarrassed many times by friends who will go on a lunch run, borrow a car from the FBO, keep it longer than 2 hours, not put any fuel in the tank, and then flat out refuse to buy fuel, and then head home where they can buy fuel for a nickel or dime cheaper. They probably only needed 10 gallons to top off their tanks, and they won't even buy that much from the FBO that just chocked and tied down their plane, gave them water and cookies, loaned them a car, and were generally courteous and helpful. I really don't understand that mentality.
Click to expand...

The flipside of this are FBOs that scalp you for a $50 'ramp fee' just to drop off passengers.

I would prefer if FBOs had a more transparent pricing model rather than rolling their revenue into ramp fee, overnight fee and fuel sales. There are times when the full service experience with someone to chock your plane, pull up the rental car and hand you bottles of iced water is something that is very welcome. Other times, I would prefer to have the option to tie down myself and just walk off the ramp through a gate. If I could order my FBO stay 'full service' vs. 'self-serve', it would offer the mooneypilots and other cheapskates the option to save a couple of pennies.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Well,

I forgot to tell you when I landed in Marathon FL. I asked them how much was the fee for a few nights to park. They gave me a certain look and I asked them what was going on. They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight. I didn't have an answer but I took their side this time. They also went on about how a few pilots came though and didn't want to pay 15 dollars and walked out.

Why are Pilots so cheap?
Click to expand...

Their $15 a night fee is 50-100% more than you would pay at similar uncontrolled airports.
 
Clip4 said:
Their $15 a night fee is 50-100% more than you would pay at similar uncontrolled airports.
Click to expand...

Are there any 'similar' airports in Monroe county ?
 
I would have answered honestly. If I let something so meaningless get to me, id never be happy.
 
gsengle said:
Because that's $5,475 a year for parking out in the open with three pieces of rope!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Extrapolation gone awry.

The rate for a year would be much lower. Transient parking for cars where I park for work is $18/night; no in-and-out. Or it was, my monthly rate just went up from $85 to $100, so maybe nightly did too.

Previously if someone spent 5 days here they paid more than I did for the whole month.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
weilke said:
The flipside of this are FBOs that scalp you for a $50 'ramp fee' just to drop off passengers.

I would prefer if FBOs had a more transparent pricing model rather than rolling their revenue into ramp fee, overnight fee and fuel sales.
Click to expand...

They also have a nice lobby with chairs and sofas and have clean bathrooms. The ones that really scalp @ $300+ generally have a very spiffy building.

Yep, I would love "back 40" parking at times. Or bare bones, which is why I like Kissimmee Jet Center at KISM. They are the lowest price of 3 FBOs on the field; Signature and Odyssey are the other two. Not a fancy lobby, but great staff.

I get irritated at the price delta between a single engine (SR22) and a light twin (Baron 58). They are damn near the same size. It's often double the price, sometimes slightly more than double, for both ramp fees and parking. What? It takes no more effort or space. *sigh*



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Is there something missing from this story that I'm not getting?

There are many things which don't have a posted price. Asking is the only way to find out

If all I did was ask how much the parking was and I got that response, I would pack up and leave.
 
wayne said:
They also have a nice lobby with chairs and sofas and have clean bathrooms. The ones that really scalp @ $300+ generally have a very spiffy building.
Click to expand...

And lots of personnel that wants to have a paycheck.

Yep, I would love "back 40" parking at times. Or bare bones, which is why I like Kissimmee Jet Center at KISM. They are the lowest price of 3 FBOs on the field; Signature and Odyssey are the other two. Not a fancy lobby, but great staff.
Click to expand...

Its great if you have the option like at KISM. Before Oddyssey bought out Ranger you had three levels of service available:
- Signature for gold plated powder your butt service
- Ranger for professional but no-frills
- Jet Center for a 'quonset at the far end of the airport' service


I get irritated at the price delta between a single engine (SR22) and a light twin (Baron 58). They are damn near the same size. It's often double the price, sometimes slightly more than double, for both ramp fees and parking. What? It takes no more effort or space. *sigh*
Click to expand...

If you paid a fee for 'handling' that was simply linear to the published MTOW of the aircraft it would probably be the fairest solution. It gets more absurd between a Navajo which is charged their 'twin' rate and a Cheyenne which is charged at 'turboprop' prices.
 
weilke said:
If you paid a fee for 'handling' that was simply linear to the published MTOW of the aircraft it would probably be the fairest solution. It gets more absurd between a Navajo which is charged their 'twin' rate and a Cheyenne which is charged at 'turboprop' prices.
Click to expand...

Uh...maybe I'm missing something but isn't a Navajo a twin and a Cheyenne a turboprop? What's absurd about that?

Haven't had my coffee this morning..yet.
 
Caramon13 said:
Uh...maybe I'm missing something but isn't a Navajo a twin and a Cheyenne a turboprop? What's absurd about that?

Haven't had my coffee this morning..yet.
Click to expand...

That both of them take up the same amount of ramp space and require the same towing equipment. Any difference in ramp fee is based on the perceived 'ability to pay' rather than actual cost to provide a service.
 
Caramon13 said:
Uh...maybe I'm missing something but isn't a Navajo a twin and a Cheyenne a turboprop? What's absurd about that?

Haven't had my coffee this morning..yet.
Click to expand...

I would imagine his point is that the two are basically the same airframe with different types of engines so a different price structure does not apppear logical. That's just my guess.
 
ifly4fun said:
I guess you've never parked a car in NYC overnight.
Click to expand...

I'm just stirring the pot. I lived in Manhattan with a car. That said it's a false analogy. The land at most podunk airports is practically free. Manhattan real estate is not. Long ago I turned down a Manhattan coop parking spot outdoors that was selling for $15,000 with $50 a month maintenance. Thought it was too expensive. It resold for $25,000 just a few years later.

Even at that high price including cost of money and the maintenance that Manhattan parking spot only would have cost $4.38 a day. Mark it up 100% and it's still cheaper!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
FloridaPilot said:
Well,

I forgot to tell you when I landed in Marathon FL. I asked them how much was the fee for a few nights to park. They gave me a certain look and I asked them what was going on. They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight. I didn't have an answer but I took their side this time. They also went on about how a few pilots came though and didn't want to pay 15 dollars and walked out.

Why are Pilots so cheap?
Click to expand...

I don't think 15.00 is out of line. But it would make me unhappy to have the FBO insult me for being cheap simply for asking what the fee is.
 
If we want to compare parking rates for cars vs. airplanes, let's look at the rates for cars at an airport. Here are the parking rates for cars at CLT.

Long Term Lots 1 - $7/day

Hourly Deck - Free/first hour | $1/each additional 30 minutes | $20 max/day

Daily North Lot - $8/day

Daily Decks (East and West - $10/day

Business Valet Deck - $14/day

To me it makes sense that parking an airplane might cost as much or more.
 
GlennAB1 said:
On property that someone else owns or leases.
Click to expand...

Typically the airport, and many times that public ramp is (partially) paid for with federal funding.

I know AOPA and others (NBAA?) are supporting an effort to research and fight against absurd ramp fees and FBO consolidation. FBOs should not be able to charge $100 to drop off passengers on a public ramp paid with tax dollars if they're not using any services.
 
PPC1052 said:
I don't think 15.00 is out of line. But it would make me unhappy to have the FBO insult me for being cheap simply for asking what the fee is.
Click to expand...
Good point. There are places that charge a lot more than $15 for parking, and it's reasonable to want to find that out ahead of time.

A good response to the FBO's question might have been "Why are FBOs so secretive about their fees?"
 
Last edited:
If the exchange truly went down like that, a snide question as a reply to a question, I would have packed up and left. No way that kind of unprofessionalism is warranted. Catching grief because FBOs lack the most cursory business transparency to advertise pricing? Thats what i find rich about that whole exchange. To even validate the exchange with a response is a fail.
 
gsengle said:
I'm just stirring the pot. I lived in Manhattan with a car. That said it's a false analogy. The land at most podunk airports is practically free.
Click to expand...

Marathon is not really a podunk airport. It's a big piece of real estate the county could build over with taxpaying condominiums and commercial development.
The parking fees pay for operation of the airport which in this case includes contracted ARFF and full-time ops personnel.
 
hindsight2020 said:
If the exchange truly went down like that, a snide question as a reply to a question, I would have packed up and left. No way that kind of unprofessionalism is warranted. Catching grief because FBOs lack the most cursory business transparency to advertise pricing? Thats what i find rich about that whole exchange. To even validate the exchange with a response is a fail.
Click to expand...
This. I would have walked out. You don't say that to a customer.
 
weilke said:
Marathon is not really a podunk airport. It's a big piece of real estate the county could build over with taxpaying condominiums and commercial development.
The parking fees pay for operation of the airport which in this case includes contracted ARFF and full-time ops personnel.
Click to expand...

Nope not podunk and I consider the fee reasonable. I was attempting to explain a counter perspective, in the spirit of answering, why are pilots so cheap.

I just paid $60cdn a night at Toronto City Center airport. I get it.

That said some FBOs are way more expensive than others, and frankly it is in a municipality's best interests to keep the airport User costs reasonable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top