Tesla Model 3 - Finally.

[flyingcheesehead]

Yet there isn't any use of newer battery technology. Where are Tesla's 650 miles per charge cars?

Won't happen, most likely. If you have a 650-mile battery, you have a battery that weighs twice as much as it should. More than twice, in fact, since, moving that heavy battery around hurts efficiency.

Tesla also came up with an Apple Watch app which can be pretty handy if you don't have your phone with you (screenshot, not mine)...

I do enjoy the occasional time I can really make use of this. The other day, leaving my son's soccer game, I was carrying two chairs, two balls, a bag of snacks, a bunch of gatorade, and other random assorted things. As I approached the parking lot I said "Hey Siri, open my trunk!" and presto, it opened up so I didn't have to set a pile of stuff on the ground first.

#6. Built into the phone, and I use Android Auto. So click on the event click on location, choose open in maps (I do not assign a default, since I might want Uber/Lyft instead). And I am good to go.

Or, with Tesla, don't do anything and you're good to go. If it's in your calendar and you're leaving around the time you'd need to leave to get there, it's already in the navigation. Zero touches or voice commands required.

What could Tesla do to impress me?
- Use those new 500+ mile batteries as a way to provide limited backup power for a house. Maybe a refrigerator and freezer, a couple of lights. Most people seem to be happy with ~300 mile range, so use the excess capacity for emergencies.

Cybertruck does that. They do need to get the rest of the fleet doing V2L though, for sure.

- Use the new high capacity batteries to help with cold range. Rate the car for 300 miles in all weather.

They take the route of making it work as efficiently as possible in the cold to avoid needing to haul around the heavier batteries. Some of my earlier EVs would lose 50+% of their range in the cold, the Tesla loses around 20%.

It's almost like he correctly identified his initial customer base and presented himself and his company in a way that appealed to them. Like any good CEO.

And then ****ed off most of his customer base, like an idiot.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Won't happen, most likely. If you have a 650-mile battery, you have a battery that weighs twice as much as it should. More than twice, in fact, since, moving that heavy battery around hurts efficiency.

It depends on the battery. The Chinese have a car that has such a battery. Some western manufacturers have 450+ mile range. None of those cars seem to have lost any space for other stuff. The improvements are from better batteries, not more or larger batteries. That's like saying that a full tank of gas is inefficient because hauling the extra fuel hurts efficiency because it weighs twice as much as a half-tank. Extra range in a car, electric car, or an airplane is something I can live with. I'll let the airlines worry about fulling the tanks for efficiency.

 

[Bob Noel]

It's not just the battery capacity that is a factor, but the weight of the vehicle.

If you can dump convenience features and safety features, you can get a much lighter vehicle... leading to longer range with the same battery

 

[172andyou]

Yeah, at this point I'm pretty much done with him. I don't think he's brought any new value to Tesla in the last couple of years. I think they have other people who could do better at this point.

I was thinking about this the other day. Tesla should take advantage of its inflated share price while it still has it, do an acqui-hire, buy Ford and keep the Ford management team now that EVs, as others have pointed out, are a commodity and the company requires adult supervision.

 

[Ed Haywood]

And then ****ed off most of his customer base, like an idiot.

Or perceived that his product had become too associated with that base.

 

[172andyou]

Or perceived that his product had become too associated with that base.

Ah, yes. The 4d chess response. No argument can ever defeat it because it means nothing and everything all at once!

 

[Larry in TN]

The Chinese have a car that has such a battery. Some western manufacturers have 450+ mile range.

Lucid has a really long range EV, the Air, at up to 512 miles. I've ridden in one once, used by a car service in the MSP area, and it was impressive. Their Gravity SUV, up to 450mi, is just now launching and should be very popular. American company, too. Tesla's highest-range BEV is the Model S AWD with a rated range of 410mi.

The much less expensive Tesla Model 3 LR RWD exceeded its EPA rating (363mi) on a 70-mph range test by Out of Spec reaching about 380mi. That's a pretty good range for $34,990 after federal tax credit, $42,490 without.

I did some searching on longest range BYD BEVs and came up with their Seal BEV with a rated range of 700km (435mi) but that isn't using the WLTP rating criteria so don't know how that compares to WLTP or EPA rating. WLTP rating is more optimistic than the current EPA rating. Their Tang has a WLTP rating of 530km (335 miles) but it's difficult to get sales numbers as they published combined Tang numbers for their BEV and PHEV Tangs. No data on how many are BEV.

I found that data from searching for BYD's longest range BEVs. I didn't find anything that was well ahead of the longest range US BEVs from Tesla and Lucid. What models should I be looking for?

As far as the car's software, I was an Android Auto user, in Mazdas, before buying the Tesla. Haven't missed it at all. Legacy automakers have traditionally outsourced their software development. The EV companies with the best software, Tesla, Lucid, Rivian, etc., do it in house. I don't have any experience with the Lucid or Rivian software but it has gotten very good reviews.

As far as the app, additional functions that I've found very useful are,

1. Valet mode. I park my car at an airport valet while at work. I put it in valet mode and get notifications if its left unlock and each time it's driven. It will also give notifications if doors, windows, frunk, or truck is left open for extended periods of time and they can be closed (except for the frunk) from the app.

2. Climate. In seasons with extreme temperatures, I use the app to activate climate control when I land at home. By the time I get to the car it is comfortable and, in very cold weather, the battery is up to operating temperature. Defrost mode will have the windows clear, too.

3. Sending a destination. I'll send a destination from my phone to the car and it'll be ready to navigate when get in. If I search for my destination on my phone's map app, I can send that directly to the car without any copy/paste or re-typing.

4. Summon mode is handy in specific situations when the weather discourages walking across the parking lot. Don't use it often, but it's nice is those situations.

5. Sentry mode live video and recording can be viewed through the app so you can check on the car or see what happened if the alarm is activated.

Last night I had my first experience with the newly enabled adaptive headlights. My 2021-build has had the matrix headlamps since new but they weren't approved in the US until recently. The matrix headlights have individually addressable pixels which the car controls independently so that you can drive around with the high beams on even when there is other traffic. It turns off the pixel which would shine on the other cars around you leaving full high beams wherever there aren't any other cars. It was impressive. Now that the US allows adaptive headlights, I think you're going to see them adopted quickly across manufacturers.

 

[Flavius Renatus]

I have owned by Model Y for 2 years and like it. My prior vehicle was a Suburban so I really saw a cost savings as I drive 15-18K miles a year.

Electric cars work for me as I have a garage charger so it is always sitting at 60% when I want to use it.

Additionally, there is very little maintenance. Tires rotation and windshield washer fluid have been it. No oil changes, no worrying about the brakes as you don't really use them often.

As for the range debate, I thought the same thing before buying one and discovered 250 real world miles is plenty. I would rather have a 250-300 mile range and fast charging then a 500 mile range as my backside is normally ready to stretch after 3 hrs of driving anyway. The additional range is good if you are towing often.

I have to admit, I have been eyeballing the new Chevrolet Electric pick up and am waiting for the NACS Port before I do anything. I miss the space in the suburban for moving things more than anything.

 

[172andyou]

As for the range debate, I thought the same thing before buying one and discovered 250 real world miles is plenty. I would rather have a 250-300 mile range and fast charging then a 500 mile range as my backside is normally ready to stretch after 3 hrs of driving anyway.

There will always be a use case for extended range, I get that.

But I'm definitely in your camp. People ask me how far my plane can go. I always answer, "I don't really know except that it goes further than my bladder"

 

[Cap'n Jack]

It's not just the battery capacity that is a factor, but the weight of the vehicle.

If you can dump convenience features and safety features, you can get a much lighter vehicle... leading to longer range with the same battery

Like the Slate truck in another thread? Note that batteries are improving- now you can get more range in approximately the same form factor as old batteries.. That's why people are looking at those electric eVTOL things. Some people think the batteries are (or soon will be) viable for this application.

Lucid has a really long range EV, the Air, at up to 512 miles. I've ridden in one once, used by a car service in the MSP area, and it was impressive. Their Gravity SUV, up to 450mi, is just now launching and should be very popular. American company, too. Tesla's highest-range BEV is the Model S AWD with a rated range of 410mi.

See post https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/tesla-model-3-finally.134268/post-3624074. Nio.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I want a Lucid. They look yummy.

 

[MIFlyer]

Just spent a long weekend in San Diego for my girls' 13 birthdays. We flew into Burbank as it was much cheaper and I reserved a Model Y, as I've wanted to drive one. We did not get that as they were out of them, but got offered a Kia Ev6.

Top notes:
The car itself was pretty good. The adaptive cruise and lane keep assist were better than any other car i've used it in, I usually hate this feature, but this one was tuned well for me and I only had to fight it sometimes to be in a different part of my lane than the computer preferred.
The car has about a 300 mile range and has FANTASTIC charging speed (more in a minute).
I looked and the car sells for about 45k before incentives, so the price is really reasonable for as nice of a car as it was.
Budget gives you the car charged to something over 70% and you must return it at least 70% charged. I think the rental companies are making a mistake and should just offer them charged to 90% and let customers bring them back at whatever SOC they want, but the rental guys still think they're renting out Ford Tauruses or something, they need to adapt or they'll continue to falter.

The trip:
Hopped in late at night, drove the 2.5 hours to SD, checked into hotel.
Next day drove back to Carlsbad-Legoland (had about 140 miles of range left when we arrived Legoland). Happened to see a Level 2 charger was available, so plugged in for 4 hours while we enjoyed the park.
Drove back to Hotel, did the trip to Legoland again the following day (but all the chargers were full, so we didn't charge). Back to SD for the night.
Sunday, got up, had about 130 miles in the tank and were 120 miles from the airport, so we decide to hit a fast charger (not a level 2) on the way to the airport. We pick some random town in the LA area and charge from 18% to 90% in 20 minutes or so at a very nice charging station for $38 and then drive the last hour to the airport, returning the car at 82% SOC.


Conclusions:
This was a great chance to live with an electric vehicle again, and we went into it with an exploratory mindset. It cements a few things I think about EVs.
1. They are GREAT if you have charging where you sleep. We did not and that's the only reason we had to go out of our way to charge at the charging station and "worry" about how much charge we had on our way to catch our 121 flight home.
2. The cost to operate still would have been lower than gas, we probably drove around 400-500 miles total and only paid $38 by charging the most expensive way possible. If we could have charged at home, overnight (even in SOCAL) it would have been way less. This is on par or less than gas at $5/gallon or so.
3. The fast charge experience really opened up my aperture for road trips with an EV. They are PERFECT for your daily running around, but you have to plan for big trips. The rapid charging experience is getting good enough that if your route has good rapid charge stations along the way, I really wouldn't mind stopping every 3 hours or so for 20 minutes at a neat, clean, friendly rest station with private bathrooms, a water bottle refilling station (chilled and filtered) and a convenience store. The ROVE station we stopped at was great, and I even had a friendly attendant check on me as I was getting charging (as it was my first time at a public charger). The chargers were simple to use, and while you could use an app, they worked fine by just pushing the "Pay by CC" button and tapping your Visa on it with no other forethought or setup.

 

[Larry in TN]

Nio

Looks like you're talking about the 150kWh battery version of the Nio. There are also smaller battery versions of 75 and 100kWh.

The 150kWh range is listed at 1,000km NEDC or 1,055km CLTC.

NEDC is a depreciated European standard. CLTC is a Chinese standard which is 30%-35% more optimistic than EPA.

If we adjust the 1,055 CLTC for being 32.5% more optimistic, we get about 796km of range from a 150kWh battery. That is a 495 mile range for comparison to US cars' EPA rated range. I don't think that's surprising from a 150kWh battery. That's fewer miles per kWh of gross capacity than the Model 3 LR AWD which gets an EPA 363 miles on an 82kWh battery. It's not bad, it's just putting a very big battery into a sedan.

The search also indicated that the 150kWh battery version of the Nio is not available to buy, only to rent.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Looks like you're talking about the 150kWh battery version of the Nio. There are also smaller battery versions of 75 and 100kWh.

The 150kWh range is listed at 1,000km NEDC or 1,055km CLTC.

NEDC is a depreciated European standard. CLTC is a Chinese standard which is 30%-35% more optimistic than EPA.

If we adjust the 1,055 CLTC for being 32.5% more optimistic, we get about 796km of range from a 150kWh battery. That is a 495 mile range for comparison to US cars' EPA rated range. I don't think that's surprising from a 150kWh battery. That's fewer miles per kWh of gross capacity than the Model 3 LR AWD which gets an EPA 363 miles on an 82kWh battery. It's not bad, it's just putting a very big battery into a sedan.

The search also indicated that the 150kWh battery version of the Nio is not available to buy, only to rent.

China would use CLTC, which more closely approximates their driving patterns- lots of stop-and go, and slower speeds than here. I'm not convinced EPA would provide realistic range numbers for a vehicle being driven over there. The 150 kwh battery is changed within 3 minutes- faster than a charge. The battery is a semi-solid state battery- I didn't know those were being used yet, I thought they were still being tested. They are closely related to flow batteries. Maybe that's why they are using the rental model- allow some real testing without warranty issues. They may not be producing a lot of those batteries (or able to produce a lot of them). Nevertheless, the battery does exist. Stellantis announced they were testing their version of this battery a few days ago, about a year after Nio had it in their cars (https://www.stellantis.com/en/news/...-milestone-in-solid-state-battery-development ). They will have it in their demo fleet, so maybe 2007 before we can use it here? 3 years after the Chinese.

 

[Larry in TN]

China would use CLTC, which more closely approximates their driving patterns- lots of stop-and go, and slower speeds than here.

I'm not saying that the CLTC isn't valid, I'm saying that it isn't comparable to EPA ratings. You have to do a conversion if you want to compare a CLTC rated car to cars rated under the EPA's rules.

Tesla demonstrated a 90-second battery swap on a Model S in 2013. China is using battery swapping, with a battery subscription model I believe, with good success. I don't know of any large scale battery swapping programs outside of China. I'm not sure how well that would work for someone who charges at home and takes infrequent road trips. Sounds like a great idea for a country like China where high density residential buildings are common and home charging would not be available.

So, a 150kWh battery car will go a lot farther than an car with a smaller battery. That isn't any great revelation. The Nio's range per gross battery kWh of capacity is inferior to existing US cars such as Model 3 LR RWD. Its range is the result of having an 83% larger battery.

Tesla's progress has been on making batteries less expensive. They own a Lithium refinery in Texas which has started limited production working toward a goal of ~50GWh/year of production. Their internally produced 4680 battery is now the lowest cost per kWh of any battery that Tesla sources including CATL batteries from China. Their dry cathode battery production process is in limited production. The process offers cost savings of ~50% over wet cathode cells and a significant reduction in factory floor space and equipment requirements for production.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Its range is the result of having an 83% larger battery.

I'm probably not reading this as you intended, but it isn't larger, it has more capacity in roughly the same size.

 

[Velocity173]

Four days after service and they finally send me the bill. Thought I was home free!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Don’t use android CarPlay. Like aircraft, I like things that are built into the panel.

I just tried Android Carplay. Like iCarPlay, the compatible apps are displayed on the center screen. I don't fiddle with the phone- I just use the car touch screen, so everything seems to be in the panel.

 

[Ed Haywood]

I just tried Android Carplay. Like iCarPlay, the compatible apps are displayed on the center screen. I don't fiddle with the phone- I just use the car touch screen, so everything seems to be in the panel.

The Google version is called Android Auto. It is designed to be hands free, but there are a few things that work better on the phone, like keyboard input.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It depends on the battery. The Chinese have a car that has such a battery. Some western manufacturers have 450+ mile range. None of those cars seem to have lost any space for other stuff. The improvements are from better batteries, not more or larger batteries. That's like saying that a full tank of gas is inefficient because hauling the extra fuel hurts efficiency because it weighs twice as much as a half-tank.

Except that the batteries weigh FAR more than gas. My standard range Model 3's battery is 52.5 kWh and weighs nearly 1,000 pounds.

If you can dump convenience features and safety features, you can get a much lighter vehicle... leading to longer range with the same battery

...And an expensive car with fewer features. That's not going to sell well.

I was thinking about this the other day. Tesla should take advantage of its inflated share price while it still has it, do an acqui-hire, buy Ford and keep the Ford management team now that EVs, as others have pointed out, are a commodity and the company requires adult supervision.

Not a bad idea. I really liked my last Ford (which was also my first electrified vehicle), it was very well engineered. Ford would be at the top of my list for non-Tesla EVs to buy, and they seem to be a well-managed company.

Or perceived that his product had become too associated with that base.

There are better ways to open yourself up to everyone else than to alienate the current base. He's now ****ed off basically everyone. Not smart.

3. Sending a destination. I'll send a destination from my phone to the car and it'll be ready to navigate when get in. If I search for my destination on my phone's map app, I can send that directly to the car without any copy/paste or re-typing.

This is another thing that works really well. You don't do anything except "Share" the destination from whatever app you're in and choose the Tesla app. You don't have to do anything in the Tesla app, it just sees that it's a location and sends it straight to the car without another touch. Really slick.

Last night I had my first experience with the newly enabled adaptive headlights. My 2021-build has had the matrix headlamps since new but they weren't approved in the US until recently. The matrix headlights have individually addressable pixels which the car controls independently so that you can drive around with the high beams on even when there is other traffic. It turns off the pixel which would shine on the other cars around you leaving full high beams wherever there aren't any other cars. It was impressive. Now that the US allows adaptive headlights, I think you're going to see them adopted quickly across manufacturers.

Yes! This is really cool. I was driving last night and the high beams stayed on pretty much the entire time, and you could see it dimming small areas where it saw other cars. Given that there seems to have been a bumper crop of forest rats (deer) this year, I'm really happy about this change.

China would use CLTC, which more closely approximates their driving patterns- lots of stop-and go, and slower speeds than here. I'm not convinced EPA would provide realistic range numbers for a vehicle being driven over there.

It's merely a method for comparison. If you want a 500-mile EV, you can move to China! The M3LR on CLTC would have a 537-mile range. That doesn't mean they have superior tech (and I'm not saying they don't here), it just means that they're using a different ruler to measure it. Compare apples to apples...

The 150 kwh battery is changed within 3 minutes- faster than a charge.

Tesla did this too. In the mid-2010s they had a battery swap station at Harris Ranch (CA), about halfway between SF and LA. They could swap a battery in 90 seconds... But people didn't use it for the most part, they just used the adjacent Supercharger while they took a break. The battery swap station ended up being shut down in 2016ish, and the Model 3 came out without the capability of swapping batteries.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Won't happen, most likely. If you have a 650-mile battery, you have a battery that weighs twice as much as it should. More than twice, in fact, since, moving that heavy battery around hurts efficiency.

No! You don't have a battery that weighs twice as much as it should, unless you just use two older batteries. You use a modern battery that weighs the same (or less!) as the old one and needs the same volume and get twice the range. Batteries are getting better- the gap between range and "refueling" time for eVehicles and ICE vehicles is steadily getting smaller.

It's like magically replacing the fuel tank on your plane with one that can hold twice as much fuel in the same volume and mass (or less) as the old tank.

Comments like this one no longer have any basis in fact with the newer batteries:

I cant **** around and wait for a car to charge while I have to see 400+ miles worth of customers in a day and still have to get home for evening commitments. Or this Atlanta trip I had to scrub a flight for but HAD to make and had 2 others relying on me to get here. Rolled out at 3am and only stopped once to fill up, and that took only 5 mins to get me another 500 miles down the road. The only other stops were to **** and that was into a rest area and out. And we're going to do it again early Monday morning and stoppinh 3 or 4 times and waiting 30 mins or whatever it is each time is not going to work for multiple reasons.

So just shut the **** up about this ******** of "no one needs to go more than 6 miles in a vechicle at a time and its so horrible I cant believe you dont have a EV yet"

God you make me sick with that tripe.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

No! You don't have a battery that weighs twice as much as it should, unless you just use two older batteries. You use a modern battery that weighs the same (or less!) as the old one and needs the same volume and get twice the range.

So right now, my battery weighs almost 4 pounds per mile of range.

Let's say you manage to cut that in half, but you still want a 600-mile battery. That's still a 1200-pound battery! 300 miles of range and 600 pounds makes much more sense; 600 pounds will still materially affect range and efficiency.

Now if you get it down to a half pound per mile and you can go 600 miles on a 300 pound battery, then the battery mass isn't as big of a deal. A Lithium-Air battery could do it, but those have all kinds of problems right now.

 

[Larry in TN]

No! You don't have a battery that weighs twice as much as it should, unless you just use two older batteries. You use a modern battery that weighs the same (or less!) as the old one and needs the same volume and get twice the range.

I'm not finding data that backs that up.

What I've found is that the Nio's 150kWh battery has an energy density at 360 kWh/kg. Tesla's long range battery is 322 kWh/kg. That's not double, it's just under 12% higher density. The Nio's efficiency is not as high as a Model 3's which further reduces the range difference. The Nio's battery is also heavier in order to achieve the higher capacity. It is 676kg compared to the Model 3's 480kg.

I'm also seeing the battery cost at ~$40,800 USD, about the same as the cost of the car. The car isn't available for purchase, though, just rental and that availability is very limited.

It looks like you can swap the 150kWh battery into your compatible Nio, if it's available. Can't find the price for the 150kWh, but shows $14/day and $21/day for the 75kWh and 100kWh versions. Are the quoted car prices without a battery and you pay a subscription fee for whichever batter is currently installed? I'm not sure how that works. At those prices, it would be around $5100 to $7600 in battery fees per year for the lower capacity batteries.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm not finding data that backs that up.

What I've found is that the Nio's 150kWh battery has an energy density at 360 kWh/kg. Tesla's long range battery is 322 kWh/kg. That's not double, it's just under 12% higher density. The Nio's efficiency is not as high as a Model 3's which further reduces the range difference. The Nio's battery is also heavier in order to achieve the higher capacity. It is 676kg compared to the Model 3's 480kg.

I'm also seeing the battery cost at ~$40,800 USD, about the same as the cost of the car. The car isn't available for purchase, though, just rental and that availability is very limited.

It looks like you can swap the 150kWh battery into your compatible Nio, if it's available. Can't find the price for the 150kWh, but shows $14/day and $21/day for the 75kWh and 100kWh versions. Are the quoted car prices without a battery and you pay a subscription fee for whichever batter is currently installed? I'm not sure how that works. At those prices, it would be around $5100 to $7600 in battery fees per year for the lower capacity batteries.

Let's see- a Tesla model Y battery gives 300 miles range and weighs 771 kg (https://www.carparts.com/blog/how-h... Tesla battery pack,ones are almost 2,000 lbs.)
The Nio battery gives a solid 600 mile range and weighs 676 kg. (https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/03...Nio, the 150,a mass-produced electric vehicle.)

Real-world range test of Nio's 150 kWh semi-solid-state battery

NIO's 150 kWh semi-solid-state battery offers real-world range and flexibility, paving the way for a future where range anxiety is a relic of the past.

www.arenaev.com

Twice the range, and weighs less.

The Tesla model 3 battery is listed at 125 WH/kg [1] to 260 WH/kg [2]
[1] https://www.batterydesign.net/tesla-lfp-model-3/
[2] https://news.metal.com/newscontent/...that-of-tesla-model-3-but-the-size-is-smaller

 

[Larry in TN]

You're comparing BYD's newest battery with Tesla's older 2170. Tesla's longest-range Model three (M3 LR RWD) has a battery weight of ~480 kg (1,058 lbs).

Standard 2170-cell packs (Long Range/Performance):

~1,168–1,700 lbs (530–771 kg)

Sources conflict due to varying measurement methods (e.g., Munro teardowns vs. manufacturer estimates).

Most cited range:

1,168 lbs (530 kg) for 4680 structural battery pack (Munro-measured components).
1,700 lbs (771 kg) for older 2170-cell packs (industry estimates).

4680 structural battery pack (2022+ Texas-built models):

~981 lbs (445 kg) (estimated from teardowns, excluding seats/trim).
Actual installed weight: Closer to 1,198 lbs (543 kg) when including structural components (e.g., cross beams, seat risers).

Why the Discrepancies?
Measurement scope:

445 kg estimate excludes structural elements integrated into the pack.

543 kg includes all components weighed together (battery + seats + trim).

Cell type:

2170 cells (older models): Heavier due to traditional module design.

4680 cells (newer models): Lighter with cell-to-structure integration.[/quote]

 

[Cap'n Jack]

You're comparing BYD's newest battery with Tesla's older 2170. Tesla's longest-range Model three (M3 LR RWD) has a battery weight of ~480 kg (1,058 lbs).

Standard 2170-cell packs (Long Range/Performance):

~1,168–1,700 lbs (530–771 kg)

Sources conflict due to varying measurement methods (e.g., Munro teardowns vs. manufacturer estimates).

Most cited range:

1,168 lbs (530 kg) for 4680 structural battery pack (Munro-measured components).
1,700 lbs (771 kg) for older 2170-cell packs (industry estimates).

4680 structural battery pack (2022+ Texas-built models):

~981 lbs (445 kg) (estimated from teardowns, excluding seats/trim).
Actual installed weight: Closer to 1,198 lbs (543 kg) when including structural components (e.g., cross beams, seat risers).

Why the Discrepancies?
Measurement scope:

445 kg estimate excludes structural elements integrated into the pack.

543 kg includes all components weighed together (battery + seats + trim).

Cell type:

2170 cells (older models): Heavier due to traditional module design.

4680 cells (newer models): Lighter with cell-to-structure integration.

No, I'm citing my sources. That's what I find.

 

[Velocity173]

Went to drive into work today and the MX wouldn’t let me because of PIN number. Never even set a PIN number up in the first place!

Edit: so typical Tesla SC experience. They put a “PIN to drive” in effect on my vehicle because I didn’t pay the bill. Didn’t pay the bill because the app didn’t let me until 4 days later. Today I get a message that my vehicle is ready for pick up. I’ve had the vehicle for 5 days already! Unbelievable.

If I buy / leave a brand it won’t be because of a quirky CEO. It has everything to do with product quality. That’s a total package and in the case of Tesla, the customer service segment is lacking.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Car manufacturers going back to real buttons and tactile controls?

Rejoice! Carmakers Are Embracing Physical Buttons Again

Amazingly, reaction times using screens while driving are worse than being drunk or high—no wonder 90 percent of drivers hate using touchscreens in cars. Finally the auto industry is coming to its senses.

www.wired.com

Tesla is mentioned because one needs to go through menus to open the glove compartment.

 

[FastEddieB]

Tesla is mentioned because one needs to go through menus to open the glove compartment.

Or program the left steering wheel button so that a long press opens it. Or use the voice command “Open Glove Compartment”. Absolutely no need to “go through menus”, but if you do it’s two on screen button presses with zero scrolling.

 

[Larry in TN]

Tesla is mentioned because one needs to go through menus to open the glove compartment.

That is true. I use it regularly so know exactly where it is. Open the menu and it will be on the lower-right portion of the screen. You can also use voice control to open it. Tap the voice control button on the steering wheel and say "open glove box". Also the left scroll wheel shortcut that Eddie mentioned.

I use the PIN feature on my glovebox so I also have the type in the PIN but that's my choice.

My first Tesla test drive, a couple of years before I bought one, was mainly because I wanted to see what it would be like to have everything on the screen. I'd watched a lot of videos and that was one thing that stood out. Tesla's UI is very good, not like many car UIs, so it's very easy once you learn how it works. For the most part, you set your preferences up once and the car remembers them when it recognizes that you're the driver. I hear Rivian and Lucid also have very good UIs.

 

[Ed Haywood]

I use my glovebox once a year, when I put the new registration and insurance card in it.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Or program the left steering wheel button so that a long press opens it. Or use the voice command “Open Glove Compartment”. Absolutely no need to “go through menus”, but if you do it’s two on screen button presses with zero scrolling.

You had to get that configured, I suppose. So you had to do menus to get that programmed. Please read the citation as I think you missed the point. When I rent a car, I find the controls at hand. Likewise, I fly a plane and I find the controls work the same way, including the audio panel. I don't do "voice commands" since I tend to disable Siri and that sort of thing.

 

[Bob Noel]

It's hard to imagine the thinking that went into designing/implementing a system that would require the user to use ANY menu to open the glove box...

smh

any human factor experts want to defend it?

(I can imagine late one night some engineers at tesla, or rather I should say some drunk engineers at tesla, came up with a contest to implement the dumbest "feature" and sneak it past the approval process....)

 

[Larry in TN]

When I rent a car, I find the controls at hand.

Yeah, not an easy transition for a renter without any experience but that's true, to a lessor extent, for most modern cars. They aren't like 1990s cars anymore. Tesla's UI is much easier to use and figure out than a lot of other manufacturers. The menu system works just like the settings on an iPad.

Likewise, I fly a plane and I find the controls work the same way, including the audio panel.

Figuring out the avionics, from one airplane to another, isn't intuitive.

I don't do "voice commands" since I tend to disable Siri and that sort of thing.

You're dismissing one of the easiest ways for someone unfamiliar with Teslas to get things done. Just ask the car to do it.

As far as the operation of the glove box, it gives the ability to lock it with a PIN which isn't something that most cars offer. You gain a feature but that feature requires the use of the screen.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Yeah, not an easy transition for a renter without any experience but that's true, to a lessor extent, for most modern cars. They aren't like 1990s cars anymore. Tesla's UI is much easier to use and figure out than a lot of other manufacturers. The menu system works just like the settings on an iPad.

I rent cars several times a year. I've never had a problem figuring out where the important functions are located, no matter the make. As my employer has preferred vendors, and those vendors don't rent Teslas. Settings on an iOS device? I wish they would make the WiFi and Bluetooth accessible, instead of going down two menu items in the iOS world.

Figuring out the avionics, from one airplane to another, isn't intuitive.

As I only need the radios, I don't have an issue. Two Narcos and an audio panel or a Garmin system with integrated radio and GPS- no problems.

You're dismissing one of the easiest ways for someone unfamiliar with Teslas to get things done. Just ask the car to do it.

You're dismissing my desire for privacy. The setting to turn off Siri are also fairly hidden in settings in iOS, too. The tech bros are just as bad as the mainland Chinese government about Hoovering up data. In an interesting flip of the coin, Tesla cars are banned from some places in China due to concerns over data. There may be some cause for concern as Elon said he would store data collected in China locally after these concerns were raised. I read that as saying Teslas vehicles do collect data. https://electrek.co/2022/06/20/tesla-cars-banned-chinese-town-spying-fear/
It's been well documented that Alexa spies on people.

As far as the operation of the glove box, it gives the ability to lock it with a PIN which isn't something that most cars offer. You gain a feature but that feature requires the use of the screen.

If I did have registration and insurance, I don't care if someone looks at it. The one time someone broke into a car I was using, they didn't bother with the glove box.

 

[Larry in TN]

If I did have registration and insurance, I don't care if someone looks at it. The one time someone broke into a car I was using, they didn't bother with the glove box.

I have a couple of things in my glove box that I want to, at least, make a little more difficult to steal.

 

[Bob Noel]

I have a couple of things in my glove box that I want to, at least, make a little more difficult to steal.

there are more secure alternatives than a locked glove box.

 

[asicer]

It's hard to imagine the thinking that went into designing/implementing a system that would require the user to use ANY menu to open the glove box...

smh

any human factor experts want to defend it?

(I can imagine late one night some engineers at tesla, or rather I should say some drunk engineers at tesla, came up with a contest to implement the dumbest "feature" and sneak it past the approval process....)

Have you seen how to open the door of a Model 3 from the inside? There's an electronic push-button switch high up on the door and a mechanical lever down near where your hand naturally lies when your forearm is resting on the armrest.

But you're only supposed to use the mechanical lever in an emergency.

 

[Larry in TN]

Have you seen how to open the door of a Model 3 from the inside? There's an electronic push-button switch high up on the door and a mechanical lever down near where your hand naturally lies when your forearm is resting on the armrest.

But you're only supposed to use the mechanical lever in an emergency.

It's very natural. Put your hand on the handle and the button is under your thumb.

The mechanical release is for if the car has lost power.

 

[Larry in TN]

there are more secure alternatives than a locked glove box.

Yes. The frunk. Not everything needs the highest level of security. Some things you don't want to leave in the open.

It might help if you remember that I valet my car several times per month. That's why I want some things to be more difficult to get to than an unlocked compartment.